Need advice on whether to have a new child [LONG]

Hi Cathy,

First of all, they're he three main reasons. There are other, less
important ones. If I could get past these, then I could get past the
rest.

1) If she leaves won't it also disrupt your son's life?

I'm aware of the implications. I have tried to answer this in my reply
to Penny above.

2) did nothing good come out of the first marriage?

Lots of things! Including my son, which I guess is your point.

If you had to live your life over again would you
not have your first marriage and your son?

Ouch. There are a couple of things I would do differently, that's for
sure! Look, you don't get your life over, but you do get to learn from
your mistakes. If you're smart.

3) Things aren't going to stay the way they are
no matter which way you go. Sorry about that,
but that's the way it goes.

No argument there.

So would you like things more with a child and
this wife, or without either?

That's the $64,000 question, no doubt. I hadn't seen it as starkly as
that before, but have just seen it put in a similar way on
alt.support.step-parents, where I've also posted.
The truth is I don't know.

Jules

Jules wrote:

Thanks for you comments. I can't really disagree with anything you
say,
except that for me, making decisions purely on an emotional basis is
out.

Mary responds:

Okay, so, I'll bite. I'm the mom of three, and I'm wracking my brain to
come up with one rational reason for having a child. A rational reason
would require there to be a tangible...like having kids making you
healthier, richer, better looking, smarter, giving you more leisure
time, an employment edge...SOMETHING other than the illogical emotional
stuff that is at the real root of having babies. I love being a mom and
wouldn't have it any other way, but I don't pretend the choice was
anything but irrational and based on feelings and hopes and dreams,
which were fortunately shared by my equally balmy hubbie. Its a leap of
faith in a future you have no real control over.

Mary G.

In article . com,
"jl2000" wrote:



PS - also great to be hearing from a guy! I'm getting a lot of stick
from mums right now!

OK, I won't respond as a mum, but as the baby. My situation wasn't
parallel, since my half-brother lived with us all the time (his dad died
after the divorce), but there was plenty of potential for alienation in
his situation. He was 12 years older than I was, but I was much closer
to him than to my full brother, who was four years older. My
half-brother had actively lobbied our mom in favor of having another
baby. So feelings of isolation and competitiveness on the part of your
son are not inevitable, and he and the baby might have a really great
relationship. As long as you're dealing in hypotheticals, you might
throw that one into the mix and see if it affects your feelings.

On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 19:28:12 EST, "jl2000"
wrote:

What happens if your wife decides that she wants
a child more then a future with you? How will a
second divorce affect your son?

Honestly? My wife asked me this, and here is the answer I gave her. My
son is seven. He is extremely fond of my wife, but I'm really not sure
if he loves her in any child-parent sense. Maybe, maybe not - who knows
the mind of a seven year old? But... when there's a choice of someone
to play with, he will choose me. If I'm not in the house when he comes
round, he asks "where's daddy?". If it's the other way round, well my
wife just isn't missed in the same way. I suppose his main thoughts
would be a) well this has happened before, and it was worse the first
time because that was mummy, and b) now I get daddy to myself. It might
sound callous, and I might be underestimating his feelings, but he's
just seven after all.

This is a tad short sighted is it not? You say that your wife is a
good step mum and your son is extremely fond of her. You suggest that
you have worked hard and succeeded in providing him with a stable
home, that he seems well settled, and yet you do not see your wife as
part of this picture? I find that rather odd, and I don't think the
measure is whether you are his preferred playmate or he misses you
more. It is a lot more than that, including the whole blanket of 8
loving grandparents you mentioned, of which he stands to lose a couple
if you divorce.

Furthermore, if your wife were to leave you in order to have a child,
what would you do for companionship? Surely bringing more women into
your life would cause even more disruption and uncertainty for your
son? What if you don't find another woman who is as good a step-mum
and who your son can be as fond of? What if you fall for a divorcee
with a child who hates your son, or makes your son intensely jealous?
You know, if you go looking for it, there is uncertainty everywhere.


--Lisa bell
Mom to Gabriella (6.5) and Michaela (almost 5)

In article .com,
jl2000 wrote:
Thank you Peggy, that was a very thoughtful post.

Perhaps you could try to imagine yourself into
her situation, loving a stepchild, but longing for
one who was really your own.

I do try. But realistically, I don't think a man could ever *want* a
child the way some women *need* them!

The strong desire for having children, though somewhat associated with a
person's sex, is not determined by it. I certainly had a very strong
desire to have and raise a child. I know of one marriage that failed
because the man wanted children very much, and his wife did not.
(Afterwards, he became a sperm donor with parenting rights and is very
happy with his two daughters, though he only has them for about 1 day
a week each.)

A marriage in which one partner strongly wants children and the other
does not is extremely likely to fail. This is a major difference in
goals that cannot be papered over by compromises.

------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
(Senior member, IEEE) (Board of Directors, ISCB)
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Affiliations for identification only.

In article . com,
wrote:
Jules wrote:
Thanks for you comments. I can't really disagree with anything you say,
except that for me, making decisions purely on an emotional basis is
out.

Mary responds:

Okay, so, I'll bite. I'm the mom of three, and I'm wracking my brain to
come up with one rational reason for having a child. A rational reason
would require there to be a tangible...like having kids making you
healthier, richer, better looking, smarter, giving you more leisure
time, an employment edge...SOMETHING other than the illogical emotional
stuff that is at the real root of having babies. I love being a mom and
wouldn't have it any other way, but I don't pretend the choice was
anything but irrational and based on feelings and hopes and dreams,
which were fortunately shared by my equally balmy hubbie. Its a leap of
faith in a future you have no real control over.

What makes a decision *rational* is that it can be seen as logically
supporting some underlying notion of goodness or value. That
underlying notion is inherently "emotional" in that it is accepted as
axiomatic. The hard part of rational decision making is trying to
figure out what notion of value to use, as there may be several
conflicting notions that result in different rational outcomes.

There are several ways in which having a child can be seen as a
rational decision. Here are a few:

Spouse wants a child, underlying goal is to maintain happy
relationship with spouse, and having child would further this goal.

Existing child would be happier with sibling and wish to make child happy.

A member of a religion that believes in having large families and
wish to perpetuate the religion by raising children in it.

Have a lot of capital and wish to keep it in the family, but not on
good terms with siblings or cousins, so wish to have a child who can
inherit.

Believe that children will be particularly brilliant or talented, and
wish to provide this talent to the world. (Though rational, this is
often based on the delusion that one's children will be unusually
gifted, putting an unfair burden on them if they are not.)

Believe that the Social Security system will require more workers in
30 years to pay for retirement costs, and trying to provide that labor
force. (Rational, but rather stupid, as one could provide for one's
retirement finances more eficiently by investing.)

Believe that people with big families have more social support in
their elder years, and that this support results in longer, healthier
life.

There are many *rational* reasons to have a child, and just as many
*not* to have a child. The important question is not whether the
decision is rational or not, but what underlying goals are furthered
by each possible outcome of the decision and how important these goals
are to the individual or couple making the decision.

Personally, I think that the world has too many people, so that only
those who really want children should have them, and then only as many
as they can really raise well. I would never try to talk a person who
is reluctant to have children into having them.

------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
(Senior member, IEEE) (Board of Directors, ISCB)
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Affiliations for identification only.

Hi Elizabeth,

Thank you. The more I think and talk about this, the more I realise
that my concerns are a) manageable, and b) probably more a screen for
fear of change / the future.

Jules

Hi Lisa,

You say that your wife is a good step mum and
your son is extremely fond of her. You suggest that
you have worked hard and succeeded in providing
him with a stable home, that he seems well settled,
and yet you do not see your wife as part of this
picture?

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. I was answering the question of
how divorcing again would impact my son - part of that would mean that
she would no longer be in the picture, by definition, no? I mean,
knowing the kind of person she is, I'm sure she'd work to make things
as smooth as possible for him, but there would eventually be a time
when she was no longer in his life.

OTOH, if you're suggesting that I don't value my wife's contribution to
our family, then that's just wrong. I don't know how I could have given
that impression, but it wasn't intended.

I find that rather odd, and I don't think the
measure is whether you are his preferred
playmate or he misses you more.
It is a lot more than that, including the whole
blanket of 8 loving grandparents you mentioned

Well, we're talking about a seven year old boy. I don't know if he's
typical for a boy his age, but in his case, I think his feelings for
his grandparents are largely fondness borne out of lavish but
infrequent attention, and presents!

Furthermore, if your wife were to leave you in
order to have a child, what would you do
for companionship?

Join a debating society?! I don't know, really, but I can't see myself
ever bringing another woman into my life. I've never met anyone
remotely like my wife before, and doubt whether I would again. Most
people who meet her seem to feel the same way, and I feel very
fortunate that she chose me to spend her life with.

You know, if you go looking for it, there is uncertainty
everywhere.

I can deal with uncertainty, provided the *balance* of probability is
in my favour! I won't win every Texas Hold'em hand with two aces, but
I'll win enough to keep betting them!

Thanks for your thoughts,

Jules

"jl2000" wrote in message
ups.com...

[Being new to all this, can I ask what 'DS' and 'DD' mean?]

DS - Dear Son
DD - Dear Daughter
DH - Dear Husband
DW - Dear Wife

You can decide how sarcastic the "dear" is, sometimes, in the context of a
particular post.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/

I'm doing the Big Climb for my friend Dena! See:
http://www.active.com/donations/camp...?key=cpetersky

Jules,

I know you've had numerous responses, some good, so I'll make this
brief. I really commend you on your honesty. You obviously have given
this much thought, as well you should! I think more people should give
the "rational" side more consideration when deciding to bring another
life into this world and all that it entails. Your feelings are what
they are. If I were your wife, this is not something I'd want to
convince you to do or talk you into. I would want the desire to have
another child to come from you, not from me. And I hate to quote Dr.
Phil here, but I think it's appropriate--"it takes 2 yesses and 1 no".
So if either you or your wife say "no", that's all it takes to shoot
down the idea. You cannot and should not go forward when only one
person wants a child, for whatever reason.

Good luck!
Marie