Kindergarten - my child "going postal" every morning...

In article sew1b.8744$Qy4.7324@fed1read05, Circe wrote:
What, you think your *child* can't tell you anything about these things? My
child *did* complain to me that a particular part of his school day was
boring and that he disliked it. Based on that complaint, I went and observed
because I wanted to know whether his report was based on perception or
reality. I am sorry to say it was based on reality. Unfortunately, at that
point in the school year, changing teachers was not really an option, so we
muddled through as best we could a less than ideal kindergarten year.

But, by and large, my oldest can be pretty well relied upon to report
accurately at to what's going on in his classroom. And I know what they are
learning because it comes home as completed papers and in the homework.

This varies a lot from child to child. Getting my son to tell me
anything about school is like pulling teeth. No, I take that
back---he likes going to the dentist and had no problem when two of
his front teeth had to be pulled because they were still firmly in
place even though the permanent teeth were fully erupted.

When I have managed to get information from him, it was often
surprising. At one point last year, I found out that his least
favorite part of school was recess. It turned out that there was some
minor bullying going on among the 1st-grade boys. I informed the
teacher privately (who already knew who was involved and promised to
put a stop to it).

--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

Nan wrote:
So you're saying that this mass push for parental volunteers has been
going strong since the 70s? Every state has suffered budget cuts. I
don't buy it as a compelling reason.

Noreen Cooper writes:
You don't have to buy it. You can look up where California's public
schools ranked before Proposition 13 in the 70's and where the state
ranks today. Quite verifiable.

I tend to agree with Nan here. While no one can doubt that Prop 13,
along with other demographic changes, has crippled the California public
schools, I think there's more to volunteerism in the schools than just
budget issues. I think there's a genuine, if incremental, shift in
thinking: there really is a realization that educating children in
partnership with parents is a better approach than leaving parents out
of the equation, under the misguided theory that "professionals" know
best and parents have nothing really to contribute (which I really think
was the attitude of many school administrators and teachers in the 60s
and 70s).

If, to some extent, bringing parents into the schools is a side effect
of budget cuts and Prop 13, then it's perhaps the only good thing that's
come out of that.

David desJardins

Robyn Kozierok wrote:

: Noreen Cooper wrote:
:
:Now if you do absolutely nothing to help out your local schools, then I
:might judge you. ;-)

: Surely it does not take much imagination to come up with scenarios
: in which a person's resources (time, energy, money, etc.) are best
: spent on things other than helping out their local schools.

No, I think it's incredibly easy for anyone who has a child in public
school to do something. That something doesn't need involve volunteering
onsite five days a week. Banty said she did nothing for her son's school
and then said she donated his old children's books. Sorry, but that is
doing *something* for a local school.

Judgemental I'll be. If you have a kid in school, there are a number of
ways a parent can help out and usually parents end up doing something.
That's all that matters.

Noreen

Circe wrote:

: Any number of government agencies are strapped for cash. Nonetheless, no one
: seems to be suggesting that private citizens volunteer to take up a police
: beat in order to ensure they have adequate police protection or put in a few
: hours helping people register their cars and get driver licenses at the DMV
: to reduce long lines and improve service for everyone. I am not completely
: sure why parents are expected to fall over themselves volunteering to help
: their kids' schools do what they are instituted and funded to do.
: --

It takes a little more training to be a police officer than a parent
volunteer in an elementary school, and especially in the early grades
when many children can't even read, some don't even know their colors,
and at my son's school, around a quarter can't even speak English.

Noreen

In article ,
(Iowacookiemom) writes:


Not to imply, certainly, that anyone on this thread who has indicated they
don't volunteer would fall into that category -- but the idea that *everyone*
should do *anything* strikes me as problematic.


That's a good point, although most of us have said "everyone should help" not
"everyone should volunteer." There is a difference. And, even if it hasn't
been explicitly stated, there is an understanding that different families will
have different abilities to help.

And, as has been stated repeatedly, "everyone should help" is meant as an
opinion of a societal obligation, not that we think the school should start
enforcing some sort of mandatory volunteering schedule.

I personally think that the obligation to help public schools cannot be negated
by other community volunteering one might or might not do, or by what job one
holds or does not hold.

Most schools do have plenty of options for those that want to help without
actually being involved with the students.

-Marjorie

In article ,
Kevin Karplus wrote:
In article qow1b.8745$Qy4.3473@fed1read05, Circe wrote:
"Nan" wrote in message

Any number of government agencies are strapped for cash. Nonetheless, no one
seems to be suggesting that private citizens volunteer to take up a police
beat in order to ensure they have adequate police protection or put in a few
hours helping people register their cars and get driver licenses at the DMV
to reduce long lines and improve service for everyone. I am not completely
sure why parents are expected to fall over themselves volunteering to help
their kids' schools do what they are instituted and funded to do.

Actually, the police budget got cut this year in Santa Cruz, and the
first thing to go were crossing guards (who were not police officers
but were paid out of the police budget). You guessed it---they're
hoping that parent volunteers will take over the crossing-guards'
duties.

Lots of towns have volunteer fire departments, and volunteer EMTs, etc.
Neighborhood watch programs ask citizens to (informally) patrol their
own neighborhoods. *Lots* of agencies that are strapped for cash look
to qualified volunteers to fill the need.

--Robyn

x-no-archive:yes
Noreen Cooper wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:

This was in response to your question:
the state is in an overload financial emergency right now; so what do
you suggest be done other than volunteer to help out the schools under the
circumstances?

: I suggest
: a) getting some political clout and reversing the financial emergency
: situation if that is what appeals to you (run for governor or work for
: someone who you think would do a good job).

And like that really is going to make any difference in the short term.

Who said anything about the short term? This is going to have to be a
long term thing, which should have started before Prop. 13 was passed
and should be a continuing on-going project.

Now how would you go about getting some political clout to turn a
financial emergency situation around by (say) by Tuesday when school
starts. Sheez.

Like I said - California voters (and others) put their heads in the
sand like ostriches and then you throw up your hands and say - well
how can I do anything by Tuesday. It's what should have been being
done all along - maybe instead of volunteering in the schools. Two
years ago, we wanted solar panels for the boat and couldn't get them
because there was an energy crisis in California. -- this is NOT NEW.
so the fix can NOT BE INSTANT.

: b) home schooling (there's where a parent is really involved) or

You asked me what I would suggest. Just because you don't want to do
it doesn't mean it isn't a viable suggestion.

Like that is really going to solve the public school crisis if all the
involved parents homeschool their kids. I don't want to homeschool my
son. As I said, I enjoy volunteering in the classroom even though my son
is one grade ahead of most of his peers.

I think if a significant number of parents home schooled, there would
at least be less of a problem with class size. And you don't want to
home school and you like to volunteer.- but this started because David
said
I don't understand how a
parent would not *want* to participate.

and you agreed with him did you not? (with some surprise IIRC)

: c) making sure my own children have what they need to succeed in
: school, checking to be sure they are getting appropriate skills, and
: probably supplementing their education as Wendy is doing I think.

That's already been done. I enjoy helping out the kids who are less
fortunate, especially the ESL students who come from homes where English
is not spoken at home. These children come in at a distinct disadvantage
and I believe I've made a difference in a number of kids' lives by
offering some extra help.

: And stop complaining that other parents are not volunteering so that
: must be why the schools are so bad. It's not.

Where in the world are you getting the idea that *I* am complaining about
other parents not volunteering at school? I specifically stated that

It was YOUR suggestion that the OP talk to a 'parent who volunteers
regularly' that set off the whole wild thread that diverged from the
OP's request. Others said that they were looked down on because they
can't or don't want to volunteer. You enjoy volunteering and you
associated yourself with those who think volunteers are necessary and
useful and you appear to be defending those people who think that
everyone should volunteer.

parents who don't want to be in the classroom should keep out. The
schools are bad because of poor funding. Volunteers are helping a bit to
alleviate the situation. If you want to extrapolate, that's your
business but I never said anything of the sort.


grandma Rosalie

In article ,
(Kimberly) wrote:

Need any and all advice! My 5 year old boy just started
kindergarten last Tuesday. My problem is every morning when I drop
him off at his classroom, he goes into a horrible fit mode, he's even
ripped my shirt on one occasion.

I've tried everything. I've tried being very firm with him (very),
closing the classroom door, etc. I've tried "talking" to him - nothing
works. I've tried dropping him off at the curb (they have a car
system where a teacher will walk the k'gartners to their class) and
its even worse.

Physically he's a big and strong kid, which doesn't help.

I'm at my wits end and have no idea what to do. His dad and I have
tried talking to him about it at home, but bottom line: when he gets
to the door of the classroom, he freaks out.

Please help!!

I think several things may be going on. Others
have mentioned them, but they may have been lost
in the noise.

Are you yourself in any way ambivalent about his
starting kindergarten? Is he stressing out because
you are as well? There can be a very nice positive
feedback here if he's freaking out 'cause you're all
stressed, and you get more stressed because he's
freaking out. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. The mantra
"This too shall pass" may help here as he clings
stubbornly to his buttons. Perhaps in a week,
perhaps in a month, he will be going into the classroom
without looking back as you wistfully watch him
gain independence.

Maybe a little play-acting or role playing would
help. You could play the teacher, and you ask
him what the teacher is doing, and what he does, etc.
It might give you insight into what he is feeling.

You can ask the teacher for suggestions, or other
parents.

This is almost certainly just a phase, so don't
freak out yourself about it

I'd be interested to know how things evolve.

Scott DD 10 and DS 7 (both with the same great teachers
this year as last -- minimal angst when school starts!)

"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message om...
"David desJardins" wrote in message
...
Marjorie writes:
Fourth, once your children reach middle school age, all of this is
moot. They don't have parent volunteers in the middle school
classrooms, thank goodness, and the parental competition dies on the
vine.

Now that you mention this, it certainly seems true that there's less
volunteer help in the middle and high schools (although I don't agree
there's none). I wonder why that is? My first thought is that, as
children get older, they have less respect for any arbitrary adult, just
because that person is an adult, and so it's harder for volunteers to
come in and be treated with respect and to be effective. I wonder if
that's the reason, or if there's some other reason.

I think partly it's because the subjects have become too advanced to
assume any volunteer can teach them.

I think that this is indeed true, but I also think it has to do with
the size of middle schools, the block system, and the impossibility of
keeping track of parent volunteers in a large building where people
are on the move every 50 minutes. Unlike elementary school, in middle
school both kids AND teachers move about the building, and it can be a
bit of a logistical nightmare. I don't know why parents aren't invited
to volunteer in the classroom, but I'm happy they aren't.

Parents can volunteer to do traffic duty, work in the cafeteria, help
with after school programs, etc. There are things to do, just not in
the classroom.

Marjorie

Bev Brandt writes:
I think that any parent that volunteers at the school during the day
should do so because they can contribute to the (underfunded)
workload, not to monitor classroom dynamics. I don't want any unpaid,
non-professional - including myself, to some degree (I have obvious
biases) - to evaluate my child's academic and social progress in the
school.

I have to say that this idea that parents aren't qualified to evaluate
and teach and raise their children---that somehow the "professionals"
know more about my own child than I do---I really thought was solely an
invention of the educational establishment to keep parents from
interfering in their world. I've never heard a parent buy into it to
the degree that you seem to.

It shouldn't have to be this way. We shouldn't have to rely upon
non-professionals to give us a review of the classroom situation as it
pertains to academics and social structure. Teachers should be more
communicative with parents. Counselors and principals should be in the
classroom more to make better judgement calls about those dynamics.

This is not a SAH vs. WOH parent rivalry. It's too bad that you see it
that way. If there is a "rivalry" it's between parents and our
expectations and schools and their apparent lack of resources.

There's certainly a big difference in our expectations. My expectation
is that my own opinions and observations regarding my own child, whom I
know better than anyone, are worth more than any number of "counselors
and principals". (And certainly I know from my own experience in school
that my parents' judgment about the school situations was a lot more
cogent than that of the "paid professionals".) I daresay the person who
originally made the suggestion also placed a whole lot more faith in
their own judgment than you seem willing to put in yours. I think this
is the fundamental difference here.

David desJardins