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#32
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Classroom Volunteering and WOH parents (was: Kindergarten - my child "going postal" every morning...)
(iowacookiemom) wrote in message . com...
(Bev Brandt) wrote in message . com... Of course, my husband and I WOH, so that very likely skews my perception of what it means to be asked to "volunteer regularly." It's not that my child isn't worth my vacation and sick time. But that *is* all some of us have - limited vacation and sick time. We *can't* "volunteer regularly" or we'll get fired. I agree completely that many schools/teachers are insensitive to this. I've found that fellow parents can be even more insensitive. That said, when Henry started school I asked my sister, a teacher, what I could do as a working parent who had limited vacation time, etc. (I did have a good boss who was flexible with me, but I preferred to use that good will for after-school needs.) My sister had a great suggestion, and I've done it every year since: volunteer to grade the spelling tests. It's time-consuming and tedious for the teacher, and usually has to be done over a weekend. Henry brings the tests home on Friday and I grade them over the weekend -- takes about a half hour of my time. Henry has always seemed very proud that I do this, and even willingly toted the 25-or-so *spiral notebooks* the last two years that contained the spelling tests. I involve him in picking out stickers to put on each test and teachers have told me the kids are great about saying, "your mom got cool stickers this week, Henry!" I started out doing this for the teacher, and all have been very grateful, but I keep doing it for my kid. It connects me to the school and he seems proud of it. I'm planning on asking his new teacher if I can continue this year. One caveat: by doing this you do have access to the academic progress of the students, and when I have mentioned this casually some parents have looked a little surprised and slightly bothered by the fact that I see their child's test each week. Truthfully, beyond learning who you can rely on to get all or most words right (this is helpful in weeks when the words are confusing like "there/their/they're" and you're unsure what order the teacher read them in), you really don't pay attention to individual kids' scores. I never share the scores with Henry, and also get teacher approval in advance to share Henry's own score with him (all have allowed me to do so). While I praise you for trying to find a way to be involved in the classroom, I'd be furious if I found that parents were grading tests/papers/projects/schoolwork for teachers. First, this is part of the teacher's job and there is no reason on earth that they can't do it. As a former teacher I know all the canned lines about how hard teaching is (it is) and how many extra hours teachers work (they do) but grading papers is an essential part of their job and should never be done by anyone else. Second, the confidentiality issue would put me over the edge. I would never want ANY other parent to know what my children are doihg workwise in school. It's not their business, and there is a part of me that wonders about the legality of this serious breach of confidentiality. Parents DO tend to gossip (I'm not saying you're a gossip, but if you're doing this, so are other parents, and if they are, they're possibly not as honest and decent as you, Dawn) and do tend to report on other kids in the class, and I'd be so upset if parents were discussing my child's progress. Third, I've read right here on the net the 'musings' of one SAHD who volunteers in his kid's class and reports the stupidity and lack of progress of one kid he works with. I find this beyond disgusting. No parent volunteer has the right to discuss a child in his volunteer group on the internet. And I wonder about the motives of any parent who thinks this is a good idea, as so many do (not on this newsgroup, of course). Fourth, once your children reach middle school age, all of this is moot. They don't have parent volunteers in the middle school classrooms, thank goodness, and the parental competition dies on the vine. You can, and most do, volunteer for the special projects and events that come up during the school year, but this does not in any way impinge on working parents. Me, I do the Boxtops for Education every year. It's a simple job, it takes almost no effort on my part, and raises thousands of dollars for the PTO. That is pretty much the extent of my relationship with our middle school. Lastly, I strongly believe that most parents are absolutely clueless about the goings on in the classroom even if they're there day after day. I know from putting two very different kids through elementary school that the parents who are constantly there day after day volunteering to do this and that inside the classrooms are the people who use this as their social life during school hours. When I did volunteer in our day school years back, I saw the same group of moms who never left the campus. They were always there to 'help' but the help usually consisted of chatting with the other volunteers in the back of the room, and working in group settings on projects where there was little possibility of gaining insight into the individualized educational progress of any child. Mostly there were there to provide control for more freeform activities. An example would be a mother who was there for her son day after day after day, but had no clue that her son's learning differences were so severe until an educational consultant came to look at the classrooms and took her aside. This mother was not only a trained teacher, she taught that very grade for over 10 years and yet she hadn't a clue about her own child's progress. Parent volunteering is, imo, really more about the social aspects of parenting school age children than it is about helping to teach. I don't have a problem with this, I think it's probably a much better idea than allowing parents access to graded projects, tests, etc. The lack of knowledge about what is and should be going on in a classroom needs to be recognized for what it is: goodhearted and well meaning parents who want to make the classroom a better environment for their children. That's not a bad thing at all, it's commendable at all levels. But putting education of children other than your own into a volunteer's hands is definately a bad thing in my opinion. YMMV. Marjorie Henry struggles with spelling and having this connection to spelling at school has also been helpful. All of this is just to provide an idea -- not to suggest that anyone out there frustrated about school expectations regarding volunteering is somehow off-base. -Dawn Mom to Henry, 10 |
#33
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Classroom Volunteering and WOH parents (was: Kindergarten - my child "going postal" every morning...)
In article ,
chiam margalit wrote: Parent volunteering is, imo, really more about the social aspects of parenting school age children than it is about helping to teach. I don't have a problem with this, I think it's probably a much better idea than allowing parents access to graded projects, tests, etc. The lack of knowledge about what is and should be going on in a classroom needs to be recognized for what it is: goodhearted and well meaning parents who want to make the classroom a better environment for their children. That's not a bad thing at all, it's commendable at all levels. But putting education of children other than your own into a volunteer's hands is definately a bad thing in my opinion. YMMV. I can't speak for other volunteers, but my volunteering for the school has nothing to do with the social aspects of it---I'm not a particularly sociable person, and the other parents around the school are not necessarily who I would choose to socialize with. Some of the things I've done in the last couple of years: In kindergarten, supervising students doing various craft projects---this was mainly making sure they knew what they were trying to do and gently bringing them back on task when they got distracted. Decreasing the child/adult ratio in the classroom makes it easier for the teacher to focus on the kids who need the most help. In kindergarten, sitting individually with children listening to them struggle with beginning reading and helping them sound out words they were having trouble with. (This was exactly what the teacher was doing also---having two adults doing it meant twice as many students were getting reading help that day.) In first grade, doing a monthly art newsletter. This involved collecting art from all the kids in two classrooms, choosing which to include, scanning them, laying out the newsletter on my computer, printing 50 copies, folding, and saddle-stapling them. I had another parent help me with the collecting art and choosing which to include---she also kept track of which kids' art we had already used, so that we could be sure to be fair to the kids. This newsletter took a lot of my time (10-12 hours an issue, which pretty much killed a weekend a month). If parent volunteers had not been given access to the student work, then the art newsletter would not have happened, and the kids would not have seen their own work printed and distributed. In first grade, doing a 45-minute-a-week math enrichment session for the kids who were ahead of the rest of the class. Another parent did a similar math enrichment once a week also. We did a variety of different things, some of which were more successful than others. My son and his best friend were always included in the session (her mother was the other parent doing the math enrichment), but 1-3 others were involved each time, depending on who the teacher felt was ready for it that week. In first grade, making 4 soda-bottle rocket launchers and running rocket-launching activities for both the Fiesta de las Artes (which involved decorating the rockets before launching them) and the school carnival. Incidentally, plans for the launchers, in English and Spanish are available on my web site http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus/abe...tle-rocket.pdf http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus/abe...et-spanish.pdf The translation into Spanish was done by another parent volunteer. In first grade, organizing an after-school science class for 1st-3rd grade with a teacher (not associated with the schools) who specializes in science enrichment classes. In first grade, being one of the organizers (not the main one by any means) of the Fiesta de Las Artes---the first all-day art event the school had done. It was a free event run on a Saturday which got high participation from the students. In both kindergarten and first grade, organizing and running (with other parent volunteers) the Bike-to-School breakfast site. My family also spent several hours walking the precinct before the vote on the parcel tax that allowed the elementary schools to stay open. I don't expect most parents to volunteer for the school at the level I do---but I want to dispel the notion that all of us who are putting in this amount of work are doing it as a social outlet. Some of us are doing it because education is important to us, and the schools (particularly in post-Prop 13 California) do not have the resources to do it all themselves. -- Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels) Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed) Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics Affiliations for identification only. |
#34
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Kindergarten - my child "going postal" every morning...
Banty wrote:
: I think the resistance you're running into is resentment of the idea : that All Good Parents volunteer (which was Bev's complaint) or even that : one should volunteer if one's child isn't an academically bright or : successful student. Please point out where I said All Good Parents volunteer? Parents who don't want to be in the classroom helping out, should stay away. Parents who go crazy staying home with their kids should return to work. Just to let you know where I stand on the "All Good Parents Stay Home" issue. However, when your child is having trouble at school, All Good Parents should make some attempt to find out why. The volunteering suggestion was made in a specific context. For one week, the OP's son has been crying every day about going to kindergarten, even to the point of tearing her shirt, no matter what she's tried to do. There is no doubt in my mind that the very best thing to do is for her to get into the classroom and see first-hand what is going on or to ask parents who are already there what is happening between her son, the teacher, and the other students. : This is part of the problem with the communication here. You're : conflating altruistic volunteering for the school with what you : originally proposed as a scouting mission for one's own child's sake. My suggestion has always been from the POV of a scouting mission. Please show me how I've stated otherwise. Noreen (btw, the gweep server is back up now so the test group misc.kids.family-life is back on line -- check it out if you have the time) |
#35
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Kindergarten - my child "going postal" every morning...
Noreen Cooper wrote in message ...
Banty wrote: :If for some :reason you are unable to volunteer during kindergarten hours, seek out :another parent who volunteers quite regularly in the classroom and ask :what they perceive to be the problem. : .. even if he doesn't volunteer 'quite regularly', no? : Banty (yep - I'm ever aware of the common presumptions, and think it : useful to point them out ...PIA I know ;-) Sure, that's exactly why I used the word "parent" rather than "mother." Which is why I said *any* parent. If a child is having social and academic issues at school, I don't care what the parent's employment situation is - it is encumbent upon the *school* and their paid professionals to provide that parent help. The suggestion to "volunteer regularly" should NOT be made first, in fact I believe it should not be made at all in the case of academic and social issues. Although as I readily admitted, both my husband and I do WOH, so when *we* hear this suggestion, it doesn't sit well. But I don't know that I'd change my mind if I SAH - which actually I plan to do someday soon. But not so I can be at school every day. That suggestion is thick with value judgements. No matter *who* that suggestion is made to, the implication is that if you can't volunteer for any reason, you're doing your child a disservice. That could not be further from the truth in many cases. I know this first hand. I think that any parent that volunteers at the school during the day should do so because they can contribute to the (underfunded) workload, not to monitor classroom dynamics. I don't want any unpaid, non-professional - including myself, to some degree (I have obvious biases) - to evaluate my child's academic and social progress in the school. If I need to determine whether or not there is a personality conflict between my child and his teacher/counselor, I can do that in other ways besides being a volunteer. What a strange twist this thread took. Not strange at all. Either that or I hang out with a bunch of strange parents. There are a lot of us out there - WOH and SAH - who bristle at the suggestion that we're not doing enough because we're not on-site at the school every single day, during the day. However, it behooves those working parents who can never or have no inclination to be present during the school day to seek out parents who actively volunteer in the class if their child is having a hard time adjusting either to school or a particular teacher to get a second, third, or fourth opinion on what may be the perceived problem. Sure, this is helpful, I'm not so sure it's a necessity, though. I have indeed relied upon "reality checks" from other parents in the case of my son. And one of my reality checks actually came from a fellow parent who is a physician and volunteers for some of the after-hours math games we have. My better reality checks are fellow parents - working and SAH - who have my son over to play with thier kids. Or the soccer coach. Or my own extended family. (Heh...like my SIL, a school counselor - a WOH mom who is also just about as involved in the schools as one can be!) I'd say that if one didn't have these reality check resources, then a school volunteer would be one avenue, but not the only one. When it comes to those gift wrap fundraising sales, the reigning queen is a working mom who could care less about ever stepping a foot in the classroom, whether she could get off work or not. We all do our part. But were I to become a full-time working mother tomorrow, I'd be damn sure to seek out the SAH parents who are in the class every week. You see, there's an implication here that a regular, on-site volunteer is somehow saintly, moreso than the working mom that "couldn't care less about ever stepping a foot in the classroom." I feel like you are indeed making a value judgement about the classroom volunteer versus the mom who helps with fundraising. There's no better review about a teacher and the classroom dynamics than by being there yourself. It shouldn't have to be this way. We shouldn't have to rely upon non-professionals to give us a review of the classroom situation as it pertains to academics and social structure. Teachers should be more communicative with parents. Counselors and principals should be in the classroom more to make better judgement calls about those dynamics. This is not a SAH vs. WOH parent rivalry. It's too bad that you see it that way. If there is a "rivalry" it's between parents and our expectations and schools and their apparent lack of resources. -Bev |
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Classroom Volunteering and WOH parents
Kevin Karplus wrote:
: I don't expect most parents to volunteer for the school at the level I : do---but I want to dispel the notion that all of us who are putting : in this amount of work are doing it as a social outlet. Some of us : are doing it because education is important to us, and the schools : (particularly in post-Prop 13 California) do not have the resources to : do it all themselves. Glad you responded to this. I don't use my time as a school volunteer to socialize either. Most parents who are volunteering in the class are doing so to help out the teacher and keep track of how their own kid is doing, IMO. Noreen |
#37
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Classroom Volunteering and WOH parents (was: Kindergarten - my child "going postal" every morning...)
In article , Kevin Karplus says...
In article , chiam margalit wrote: Parent volunteering is, imo, really more about the social aspects of parenting school age children than it is about helping to teach. I don't have a problem with this, I think it's probably a much better idea than allowing parents access to graded projects, tests, etc. The lack of knowledge about what is and should be going on in a classroom needs to be recognized for what it is: goodhearted and well meaning parents who want to make the classroom a better environment for their children. That's not a bad thing at all, it's commendable at all levels. But putting education of children other than your own into a volunteer's hands is definately a bad thing in my opinion. YMMV. I can't speak for other volunteers, but my volunteering for the school has nothing to do with the social aspects of it---I'm not a particularly sociable person, and the other parents around the school are not necessarily who I would choose to socialize with. I think both are true, actually - volunteering many times is socially-driven; other times purely for the sake of volunteering. I've done both. I do agree with Marjorie in general regarding the parental school volunteering because IMO it does seem to be a feature of a certain set of social circles. When I volunteered for the newsletter at Cub Scouts, it was because it was something I could do more or less on my own terms and on my own time, though it was considered less "fun" partly because it was less social, but less social is fine with me. I was also an assistant Den Mother, mostly so that there could be a Den, but the Den also turned out to be the start of a social circle for me - the latter being mostly a matter of luck of composition of people involved. Years ago when I was a volunteer EMT, that was a very consuming and active kind of volunteering, and the social benefit to myself was huge, and part of the reason I got involved (how a white girl from Texas and Colorado managed to fit happily into her Bronx community). The socializing is a big feature of the rural and suburban volunteer fire departments as well, alhough the committment is also very large. But even around the ambulance garage and the firehouses, although the volleys can tend to consider themselves the Community Heros, I never caught whiff of the "good people would all do this" attitude that I detected in PTA, schools, and even Cub Scouts. Perhaps because it so obviously isn't for everybody, but still. I *do* think there is a fairly strong expectation about parents volunteering, and, devoted volunteer as I am sometimes myself, it's clear enough for me to get irritated with. As to Prop 13 and all that - part of the issue IMNSHO is that these cutbacks are happening largely *because* of the expectation that parents should be doing the free labor. It's an enabling that is happening with this "you should be doing it yourself anyway" ethic. And even in states not so hit by the anti-tax movement as here in New York State, gee whiz, it's maddening to see a decent-condition two-acre school parking lot paved again, whilst the library is asking for used books. Yeah, I know it's different colors of money and all that, but if there weren't the outlet of PTA and gifts (like my own) for classroom needs, the pallette would be different. Banty |
#38
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Kindergarten - my child "going postal" every morning...
Bev Brandt wrote:
: I think that any parent that volunteers at the school during the day : should do so because they can contribute to the (underfunded) : workload, not to monitor classroom dynamics. I don't want any unpaid, : non-professional - including myself, to some degree (I have obvious : biases) - to evaluate my child's academic and social progress in the : school. If I need to determine whether or not there is a personality : conflict between my child and his teacher/counselor, I can do that in : other ways besides being a volunteer. How your son performs on the soccer field is not the way your son will behave in a particular classroom with a defined factor of fellow students with the teacher who is chosen to instruct him for the year. I'm amazed how you readily discount verifiable data which can only be obtained by either being there first-hand or asking other parent volunteers. : Not strange at all. Either that or I hang out with a bunch of strange : parents. There are a lot of us out there - WOH and SAH - who bristle : at the suggestion that we're not doing enough because we're not : on-site at the school every single day, during the day. And where did I make that assertion? : When it comes to those gift wrap fundraising sales, the reigning queen is : a working mom who could care less about ever stepping a foot in the : classroom, whether she could get off work or not. We all do our part. : But were I to become a full-time working mother tomorrow, I'd be damn sure : to seek out the SAH parents who are in the class every week. : You see, there's an implication here that a regular, on-site volunteer : is somehow saintly, moreso than the working mom that "couldn't care : less about ever stepping a foot in the classroom." I feel like you are : indeed making a value judgement about the classroom volunteer versus : the mom who helps with fundraising. I have no idea where you're reading in a value judgement here. Did you miss the line about "we all do our part?" Okay, let me rephrase it this way. The mom who brings in all that money for the school is helping the school out as equally as any parent who helps out in the class every day. Will you read a value judgement in that statement, too? : It shouldn't have to be this way. We shouldn't have to rely upon : non-professionals to give us a review of the classroom situation as it : pertains to academics and social structure. Teachers should be more : communicative with parents. Counselors and principals should be in the : classroom more to make better judgement calls about those dynamics. Well, in an ideal world....but....who is living in an ideal world? If the system isn't ideal, though, I'd still suggest getting data firsthand in a scouting mission rather than continue to allow your child to fail because the system is failing to communicate the problems to you in a timely manner. Noreen |
#39
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Kindergarten - my child "going postal" every morning...
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#40
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New town/emergency contact (was: Kindergarten - my child "going postal" every morning...)
In article ,
Karen G wrote: I don't really like doing it, but I have put our emergency contacts down as my in-laws who are "states" away. I am upfront with people who I give those numbers too. I have put my parents, who are 3 hours drive away. I still put them, even though I now have local friends I can put down as well. Usually I put down my parents and one local friend with a child in the same school for my 2 emergency contacts. Honestly, with both my husband and I having cell phones, I can only imagine they'd need our emergency contact numbers if the cell towers were gone and we were not reachable on our other contact numbers, which seems vanishingly unlikely (esp. since DH and I are normally in areas covered by different cell towers). But I figure, if there were an emergency of a type where they had to get someone to amke a judgement call in a hurry, I'd want them to call my parents and not a friend. If they need someone to pick the child up and can't reach me, that's when I'd expect them to call the local friend. If you don't know anyone local yet, just say so. If you can, get a cell phone or pager to make them not being able to reach you less of an issue. And when you make friends, you can add one to your school forms later in the year. Good luck! --Robyn |
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