Kindergarten - my child "going postal" every morning...

In article ,
Noreen Cooper wrote:
Bev Brandt wrote:

: I think that any parent that volunteers at the school during the day
: should do so because they can contribute to the (underfunded)
: workload, not to monitor classroom dynamics. I don't want any unpaid,
: non-professional - including myself, to some degree (I have obvious
: biases) - to evaluate my child's academic and social progress in the
: school. If I need to determine whether or not there is a personality
: conflict between my child and his teacher/counselor, I can do that in
: other ways besides being a volunteer.

How your son performs on the soccer field is not the way your son will
behave in a particular classroom with a defined factor of fellow students
with the teacher who is chosen to instruct him for the year. I'm amazed
how you readily discount verifiable data which can only be obtained by
either being there first-hand or asking other parent volunteers.

And how he performs with me in the room is different than how he performs
with me not present (or at least, not visible). Sort of a Heisenberg
Uncertainty Principle for social behavior.

I find classroom volunteering rewarding and useful in learning "how things
are done" at school, giving me more common ground to use to strike up a
discussion with my children, etc. I don't find it useful in learning
how my children react and behave in the classroom when I'm not present.
I expect the teachers to report on this, though, not other parent volunteers.
I've never been in a situation where I couldn't trust my child's teacher,
though.

I've been out of the classroom for 2 years now due to having a baby/toddler
at home who would have been a distraction in the classroom. He'll be
attending preschool a couple of mornings a week this year, and I look
forward to having the opportunity to volunteer in the classroom again.

(fwiw, I WOH as well, but part time and with a very flexible schedule.
Best of both worlds, IMO.)

--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)

In article ,
MarjiG wrote:
Rant away, you're right. You shouldn't have to volunteer to get a solution for
your child. That said, a fair number of companies offer paid time for
volunteering... I'm allowed 2 hours per week.

Many companies that offer this do not include volunteering in one's own
child's school as an acceptable use of this time.

--Robyn

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:48:50 EDT, (Iowacookiemom)
wrote:

There has been some excellent advice here that I won't repeat in detail.
Absolutely ask the school for help, and absolutely find a way to verify that
there is no hidden, horrific reason for his outbursts (I'm not sure I'd have a
parent volunteer -- that would exacerbate the separation anxiety -- do you
trust a fellow parent to do this surveilance?)

I think this is the key. This type of problem is unlikely to be new to
the teacher or the school. Kindergarten is a pretty big transition and
the classroom setting can be a very challenging environment for some
children. We had a local kindergarten teacher do a presentation on
"school readiness" a few years ago. She said that she makes a firm rule
with the parents of her students to leave the kids at the door for the
first two weeks. It can seem pretty strict, but she needed the kids to
respect her ability to take care of them and that meant that the parents
really couldn't help. Dawn outlined some specific strategies that I
heartily approve. Whatever you do, don't take this behavior personally.
It isn't about you, it's about learning to transition.

Karen

Robyn Kozierok wrote:

: And how he performs with me in the room is different than how he performs
: with me not present (or at least, not visible). Sort of a Heisenberg
: Uncertainty Principle for social behavior.

Granted. But the advantages to a drop-in when your child is hating school
for whatever reason is the chance to observe firsthand the teacher's
style, how the children interact with each other and how the teacher
disciplines poor behavior. In my opinion, having this amount of
information can narrow down the causes of what's not working for a
particular student.

: I find classroom volunteering rewarding and useful in learning "how things
: are done" at school, giving me more common ground to use to strike up a
: discussion with my children, etc. I don't find it useful in learning
: how my children react and behave in the classroom when I'm not present.
: I expect the teachers to report on this, though, not other parent volunteers.

And as I said to Bev, sure in an ideal world where all teachers report on
poor behavior in the class immediately to a parent. However, I have found
that by the time a teacher sits down to have a parent-teacher conference
about a child's poor behavior, the chance to turn things around is less
likely because usually the entrenched dynamics have been going on for too
long.

Noreen

In article ,
chiam margalit wrote:
Parent volunteering is, imo, really more about the social aspects of
parenting school age children than it is about helping to teach.

I'd have to disagree with this, for myself anyhow. I've pretty much
never volunteered in a way that involved other volunteers at the same
time, so it wasn't social for me at all.

I don't have a problem with this, I think it's probably a much better
idea than allowing parents access to graded projects, tests, etc. The
lack of knowledge about what is and should be going on in a classroom
needs to be recognized for what it is: goodhearted and well meaning
parents who want to make the classroom a better environment for their
children. That's not a bad thing at all, it's commendable at all
levels. But putting education of children other than your own into a
volunteer's hands is definately a bad thing in my opinion. YMMV.

I guess I would have to say that my mileage does indeed vary.

Although I am not a trained teacher, I have "helped teach" in several
instances where I believe the children were better off having me there
than not. Increasing the number of adults in the classroom enables
the trained teacher(s) to spend more one-on-one and small group time
with various kids, which I think we all agree benefits the kids, so
long as nothing the other adults are doing is harmful.

I, for one, have done numerous things including (as another parent on
this ng has done) offering math enrichment to a handful of students
who did not need the review that was going on in the rest of the class
at that time. The kids I was working with had a good time, got to
explore some interesting/difficult mathematical concepts/puzzles/games
while the kids remaining in the classroom got a little more attention
to helping them master the basic math curriculum. (I do have a math
degree, fwiw.) I did this semi-selfishly because my own child really
needed this enrichment and there wasn't anyone available within the
school to do it.

There is a program where volunteers are taught to do hands-on science
activities in elementary classrooms. Again, I think adding something
like this to the existing curriculum could only help.

I don't think allowing a teacher to have volunteers "help teach" is
as dangerous as you seem to be suggesting. Certainly, some parents
might not be qualified to teach, and letting them do so to the
exclusion of other instruction would be harmful. It is the teacher's
responsibility to evaluate parent volunteers and engage them in a
way that enhances students' education. Sometimes this will include
asking/allowing them to help teach in an area where they are competent.
Other times, it may be limited to things like providing crowd control.
IMO, a teacher should use his/her judgement and make the best use of all
the resources available to him/her, including parent volunteers.

Our current (underfunded) private school relies heavily on parent
volunteers, both in and out of the classroom. All parents are expected
to contribute in some way. Many do volunteer in the classroom. It is
up to the teachers and principal to decide who does what and to ensure
that the volunteers' strengths are tapped to the advantage of the school
and its students. This works out beautifully, and has for many, many
years at this school and others like it. I would much rather put my
children's education in the hands of such caring volunteers, under
the watchful eye of the school's teachers and principal, than have them
get that much less individual attention while a single teacher tries
to divide her limited class time among all the students in the class.

--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)

In article ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

So do the parents grading the homework not have the correct answers on
an answer sheet?

I would say that for elementary school work, usually not. Often answer
sheets do not exist, and it is assumed that a parent can figure out
elementary curriculum without one.

When I volunteered in the classroom in 1st and 2nd grades, I often
corrected papers for students as they completed them. I never had an
answer sheet to refer to. This wasn't for "grades" -- if there were
incorrect answers I'd point them out and either help the student figure
them out, or send them off to try again if they didn't seem to really
need help with it. When they paper was completed successfully, I'd
sign off on the appropriate square in their work chart. There were
usually multiple adults in the room doing this, and kids chose who to
bring their work to, so kids who wanted to only have their work seen
by the teacher had this option.

When I was in college, I graded papers as part of the requirements of
my scholarship. In grad school, I was a teaching assistant some terms
to cover my tuition and stipend, which again included grading papers.
As often as not, we were not given correct solutions to work from. We
were expected to be able to figure them out ourselves. Of course, if a
substantial number of students came to a different solution than I did,
I would re-examine my work. And if we ever did make mistakes grading,
students certainly had the opportunity to point out grading errors either
directly to the TAs or to the professor.

Another poster worried about confidentiality with teachers "farming
out" grading duties. Certainly it is the responsibility of the
teacher/professor to make appropriate confidentiality restrictions
clear to the graders before engaging them, but I find it unreasonable
to demand that no one but the classroom teacher may ever grade a
student's work. And in college, it definitely isn't going to happen
that way.

--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)

Karen G writes:
We had a local kindergarten teacher do a presentation on "school
readiness" a few years ago. She said that she makes a firm rule with
the parents of her students to leave the kids at the door for the
first two weeks. It can seem pretty strict, but she needed the kids
to respect her ability to take care of them and that meant that the
parents really couldn't help.

Personally, I'd take this as a sign that I need to find a new school.
She sounds like a control freak.

My children are not school age yet, but you see this at all levels of
child care and education, not just kindergarten. There are preschools
that strongly discourage parents from being present in the classroom,
because they want to control the experience and they don't want the
parents interfering with their concept. And there are preschools that
insist that all of the parents participate in the classroom, because
they don't want this artificial divide between school and family life.
The latter makes a lot more sense to me.

David desJardins

In article , H Schinske says...

wrote:

Time for my annual plug for "Spellabration" easy, cost effective,
high-profit.

Kids get pledges based on the number of points they will earn on a spelling
test...

I *hate* these things, and the box tops, grocery receipts, etc. Why in heck
can't the businesses just DONATE already? Why do we have to jump through these
stupid little hoops?


:::clapping and cheering::::


(Of course, what I'd *really* like is a sensible tax structure, but in the
absence of that.)

--Helen (who just sends a goshdarned check to the school every year)


Hear hear!

Banty (OK - yeah - that's a "mee too" post :-)

In article , Noreen Cooper says...

Banty wrote:

: Nope. Don't do the school fundraisers - frankly, I think they're a
: crock. I do give new books directly to the library, though. But I
: certainly don't get with the program of the wrapper-buying, PTA-committe
: attending, classroom-cookie baking mommie.

Oh, so you *do* something for the school, after all. Donating books to
the library is helping out the school. I said I'd only judge you if you
did *nothing* to help out your local school. But it seems you needed to
go out of your way to make sure I knew you weren't one of "them." Okay,
so you're not. BTW, I know a few AH classroom-cookie baking daddies, too.
Sorry, couldn't resist.

Noreen - you don't seem to get the point - this isn't a question of whether or
not you approve - that's a non issue for me either way. It's that I'm not
obliged, nor should be expected, to donate the books to begin with! Nor is any
other parent.

Banty

wrote:

We had a local kindergarten teacher do a presentation on
"school readiness" a few years ago. She said that she makes a firm rule
with the parents of her students to leave the kids at the door for the
first two weeks.

Forget it. I don't want ANYBODY teaching my kids who uses such
one-size-fits-all rules in a varies-so-much-by-child situation. Nor do I want
my kids in any classroom where parents are off-limits.

--Helen