Draconian? Or Loving Parent?

Kevin Karplus wrote:

Scott wrote:
DD and DS are learning from me that there isn't any place
in town that they can't bike to. Or ride a bus to. Or
walk to.

I'm with Scott on this one---teaching kids that they can get around by
other means than cars is great for increasing their independence,
without putting lethal weapons into their hands. It also provides
them with a safer alternative to riding home with drunk friends.

All well and good if your community is a place where this makes sense.
But with few sidewalks, city streets where the speed limit for cars is
45 mph, and very few bike racks, this is not something I can recommend
here.

YMMV

-Dawn

Louise wrote:
Do the
people who diagnose ADD and advise teens and parents on how to handle
school with ADD also give advice about how an easily distractable
young person can learn to drive safely?

I've just bought a very helpful book, "Teenagers with ADD: A Parents'
Guide" that has a section on the subject. I found the entire book very
helpful. Author is Chris A. Zeigler Dendy, MS

-Dawn
Mom to Henry, 12
Who can't even go there (the driving thing) right now...

In article ,
Scott wrote:

This is the task I think that is most difficult to teach --
when to say No when you feel unsafe, i.e., when to trust
your instincts.

Yup, this is very tough to teach, partly because it is so hard for even
adults. Imagine if someone whose driving you didn't trust offered to
pick up your kid for you -- you would probably try to make up an excuse
to avoid hurting their feelings. If they keep offering, always having
a good excuse can get tricky. So... I think part of the key here is
offering your teens a ready made excuse. Perhaps something like "I'm
only allowed to ride with people my parents have approved of in
advance" coupled with a good standby for many situations, "My mom would
*kill* me if she found out. And she always finds out!"

--Robyn
..

dragonlady wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:


This is the task I think that is most difficult to teach --
when to say No when you feel unsafe, i.e., when to trust
your instincts. If kids read 'The Gift of Fear' by Gavin
(insert last name here -- I'm blanking) -- does it
register with them? How do you teach a kid to determine
if their friends are safe drivers -- or how to rely on
the judgement of others, when a good friend asks your
kid to come along, saying that the driver, unknown to
your kid, is a great driver.


Actually, what my kids found harder was to refuse to get in the car with
an impaired grownup. How do you tell your friend's father that he's too
drunk to drive?

Yes, we've recently learned that one of DD's friend's
Mom overimbibes. (DD and her friend went to the Mom's
house after school to find her passed out). So we
told DD she can't get in the car when this friend's
Mom is driving. I'll have to come up with a code,
as you suggest, below (thanks!), so she can comfortably
call home.


I wish I'd thought to have a code for them to call home with when that
happened: my kid would call home and ask to be picked up after I'd told
her she could only go out if she had a ride home; I could usually tell
from the tone that there was a good reason to do it, but they felt they
couldn't SAY why in front of the adult in question. DH didn't always
pick up on that, and would start to demand that she get a ride home from
the person who'd promised one.

I know they did call on occassion to get picked up because the teen
driver had been drinking; and I found out recently that my son called a
friend to pick him up and bring him home when HE had been drinking (I
would have picked him up; in spite of assurances that there'd be no
repercussions if that happened, he apparently was too embarrassed to
call.)

I think my kids would do that for a friend also. I wonder
if they would tell me they did it?

Scott DD 11.9 and DS 9

"Robyn Kozierok" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Louise wrote:

Somewhat apropos, I've been wondering lately whether and how
attention-deficit issues and driving schools fit together. Do the
people who diagnose ADD and advise teens and parents on how to handle
school with ADD also give advice about how an easily distractable
young person can learn to drive safely?

On a related note, how do you deal with the fact that a teen with ADHD
may have impulsivity issues, making them perhaps more likely to engage
in occasional instances of extremely unsafe driving behaviors?

In our case, we've told DS that there is no way in hell that he's getting a
drivers license until he's out of college. I won't sign for it, he'll be
only 20 when he's done with college, and I feel that by then, he will have
gained some maturity and will be a somewhat safer driver. His neuropsych has
suggested that he move to NYC and bag driving altogether, but he didn't
really like that suggestion. His impulsivity is much better than it has been
in the past, but he's so distractable at times, and the hyperfocussing
scares me more than anything else. Fortunately, he's much too young to drive
during high school, and since he goes away to school where students aren't
allowed to have cars, there really isn't an issue so far. Phew.

His sister, who is a space queen and should have been born blond, will not
get a license until she's 21 since she refuses to wear her glasses and can't
be trusted for a second to try contacts. Life does have it's benefits living
with neurologically impaired kids.

Marjorie

--Robyn, without any answers, just questions
.

In article ,
animzmirot wrote:

In our case, we've told DS that there is no way in hell that he's getting a
drivers license until he's out of college. I won't sign for it, he'll be
only 20 when he's done with college snip

His sister, who is a space queen and should have been born blond, will not
get a license until she's 21 since she refuses to wear her glasses and can't
be trusted for a second to try contacts. Life does have it's benefits living
with neurologically impaired kids.

Would they even need your consent once they reach 18?

I mean, you can decline to pay for driver's ed, not pay to insure them
or allow them to use your car, which would be pretty effective
deterrents for most young adults, but "I won't sign for it" doesn't
seem like it would be likely to work over the age of 18.

Further, if a young person shouldn't drive because of neurological
issues, will reaching age 20 or 21 make a difference? If there is an
issue of neurologically-based poor judgement such as with the impulsive
type of ADHD, I'm not at all convinced that "maturing" makes a
sufficient difference. This is based on observation of some young
adults I know with ADHD.

If an eye doctor can say that someone should not be permitted to drive
without corrective lenses (which I believe they can do), should a
neurologist be able to say that someone should not be permitted to drive
if not on certain medication, or at all? Is there a mechanism for them
to do this? I realize that taking medication is harder confirm than
wearing glasses...

--Robyn

..

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:52:12 EDT, (Robyn
Kozierok) wrote:
If an eye doctor can say that someone should not be permitted to drive
without corrective lenses (which I believe they can do), should a
neurologist be able to say that someone should not be permitted to drive
if not on certain medication, or at all? Is there a mechanism for them
to do this? I realize that taking medication is harder confirm than
wearing glasses...

Maybe people who are epileptic are supposed to be taking medication to
be able to drive?

I know that in Ontario, people with diagnosed and untreated
obstructive sleep apnea are not supposed to drive until they are
treated. I am not quite sure how this works - maybe the doctor
reports them to the ministry of transport?

Louise

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Banty wrote:

In article
,
dragonlady says...



However, there is also an issue of trust. Unless you have some reason
to believe that your child will behave considerably differently when you
are NOT in the car, I think it makes more sense to just have them drive
you places periodically, to make sure they are still driving the way you
taught them to in the first place.

Do you generally go by the assumption that teens act the same way when
their
parents are present as when they aren't? That one doesn't work IME.

Banty


No -- I know they'll behave differently when I'm not with them.
However, in watching my own kids, it's been my experience that those
that tend to adopt unsafe driving practices have a hard time NOT doing
those things when I'm in the car -- for example, my son follows too
close, and one daughter has kind of a lead foot. I can address those
issues. (I have another advantage in that they periodically give each
other rides places, and I certainly hear from their siblings if they're
doing something wrong!)

However, if they are doing wildly unsafe things -- extreme speeding, for
example, or driving while under the influence -- on an occassional
basis, then riding with them once in a while won't catch that.

I guess I'm uncomfortable with the inherent lack of trust implied with
the black box, and I'd need to be convinced that it actually DOES make a
difference before I'd put one in my car.

I agree. The safety industry pretty much operates with the sales
pitch of giving a vague, undefined sense of security since real data
cannot be provided. All to sell the product.

Such devices, until their worth is proven, should be viewed with
the same skepticism that we give products and late-night infomercials.



P.
Tierney

In article ,
Louise wrote:

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:52:12 EDT, (Robyn
Kozierok) wrote:
If an eye doctor can say that someone should not be permitted to drive
without corrective lenses (which I believe they can do), should a
neurologist be able to say that someone should not be permitted to drive
if not on certain medication, or at all? Is there a mechanism for them
to do this? I realize that taking medication is harder confirm than
wearing glasses...

Maybe people who are epileptic are supposed to be taking medication to
be able to drive?

People who have uncontrolled seizure disorders cannot get driver's
licenses.

DMV checks eyesight every couple of years -- if you can't pass the eye
test without glasses, your license is restricted.

I know that in Ontario, people with diagnosed and untreated
obstructive sleep apnea are not supposed to drive until they are
treated. I am not quite sure how this works - maybe the doctor
reports them to the ministry of transport?

Doctors can report any patient they believe is driving in an impaired
condition -- as can others. Other than that, they rely on
self-reporting; there are a series of questions I have to answer when I
renew my license.

I know how this is handled varies from state to state; I don't know if
Canada does this nationally or by individual province. However, I'd bet
that the rules are similar in Ontario to what they are here.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

dragonlady wrote:

Maybe people who are epileptic are supposed to be taking medication to
be able to drive?

People who have uncontrolled seizure disorders cannot get driver's
licenses.

And "controlled" is defined strictly, in my experience. A friend of
mine had a single seizure during waking hours, and automatically lost
her license until she'd gone a year seizure-free.

Phoebe