New Mama With Questions

Hi All,

I just gave birth to my son on Sunday and I while I've lurked in this group
for a long time, I guess I'd like some encouragement now that I'm actually
in the thick of learning to bf a newborn.

My milk came in with a vengance today. We are still learning to nurse properly,
and while there are times that he feeds contendedly and well, they are definitely
not the norm. More often we have latch-on-latch-off-repeatedly type sessions
where he gets a few good sucks and then tires out or yells for awhile. Should
I be doing anything to get rid of the engorgement, or will things even out
on their own?

He was 8lb 9oz at birth and discharged from the hospital at 7lb 15oz. They
want him for a weigh-in on Thursday...hopefully we can get some good feeds
in between now and then, but should I expect that he will lose more weight
this week?

Thanks for any advice!

--Jodi

Jodi B wrote:

I just gave birth to my son on Sunday and I while I've lurked in this
group for a long time, I guess I'd like some encouragement now that I'm
actually in the thick of learning to bf a newborn.

Congratulations on your new baby!

My milk came in with a vengance today. We are still learning to nurse
properly, and while there are times that he feeds contendedly and well,
they are definitely not the norm. More often we have
latch-on-latch-off-repeatedly type sessions where he gets a few good
sucks and then tires out or yells for awhile. Should I be doing
anything to get rid of the engorgement, or will things even out on their
own?

If the engorgement makes it very difficult for
baby to nurse (my nurse compared it to nursing
"from a beach ball"), try pumping a bit first.
Otherwise, it should even out by itself.

Meanwhile, I would stop the nursing if it's a
latch-on-latch-off situation, re-open baby's
mouth wide, and try to relatch properly.

I hope you are not timing his feeds. Nurse
him for as long as it takes for him to latch
off on his own or he falls asleep (after a
proper nursing, not falling asleep within a
minute or so).

He was 8lb 9oz at birth and discharged from the hospital at 7lb 15oz.
They want him for a weigh-in on Thursday...hopefully we can get some
good feeds in between now and then, but should I expect that he will
lose more weight this week?

My pediatrician said to expect regain to birth
weight in 2 weeks. It sounds like your baby
will be fine.

-- Anita --

Irrational wrote:

Congratulations on your new baby!

Thank you!

Meanwhile, I would stop the nursing if it's a
latch-on-latch-off situation, re-open baby's
mouth wide, and try to relatch properly.

Well, that's the thing...he'll latch on well, take a few sucks and pop off
and yell, or just pop off and root around again. I know I have milk coming
out and that he's getting it, but it's like he gets impatient or something.
This is the hardest to deal with when we are all tired and I can't seem
to get him on to stay for very long, but he is definitely hungry. Last night
he got downright mad when he was trying to nurse and I'm not sure why.

I hope you are not timing his feeds. Nurse
him for as long as it takes for him to latch
off on his own or he falls asleep (after a
proper nursing, not falling asleep within a
minute or so).

No, I don't time them. He has a much harder time staying awake to nurse
during the day. I'm hoping this gradually changes as he gets used to being
outside of the womb.

My pediatrician said to expect regain to birth
weight in 2 weeks. It sounds like your baby
will be fine.

I know he will be fine, I think I'm just new-mom nervous about him getting
enough to eat often enough.

--Jodi

"Jodi B" wrote in message
t.net...
Irrational wrote:

Congratulations on your new baby!

Thank you!

Meanwhile, I would stop the nursing if it's a
latch-on-latch-off situation, re-open baby's
mouth wide, and try to relatch properly.

Well, that's the thing...he'll latch on well, take a few sucks and pop off
and yell, or just pop off and root around again. I know I have milk
coming
out and that he's getting it, but it's like he gets impatient or
something.
This is the hardest to deal with when we are all tired and I can't seem
to get him on to stay for very long, but he is definitely hungry. Last
night
he got downright mad when he was trying to nurse and I'm not sure why.


My DS did this when he was a newborn and it can be very frustrating.
Do you think the milk is coming out too quickly causing him to come off the
breast? I know that was a problem I had with both kids. I used to hand
express a little first which seemed to help.
Also, that latching on and off can be a bit frustrating ... and painful ....
and my kids used to have trouble re-latching when there was milk and slobber
everywhere so I would dry both me and the kid with a clean cloth nappy /
towel before re lataching - and this made a big difference to my patience,
their latch and also it meant I never got sore nipples.

I hope you are not timing his feeds. Nurse
him for as long as it takes for him to latch
off on his own or he falls asleep (after a
proper nursing, not falling asleep within a
minute or so).

No, I don't time them. He has a much harder time staying awake to nurse
during the day. I'm hoping this gradually changes as he gets used to
being
outside of the womb.

My pediatrician said to expect regain to birth
weight in 2 weeks. It sounds like your baby
will be fine.

I know he will be fine, I think I'm just new-mom nervous about him getting
enough to eat often enough.

I can vaguely remember trying to keep my DD awake long enough to have a
decent feed when she was a very sleepy newborn. I would undress her a
little which seemed to help her stay awake long enough for a decent feed.
This problem didn't last very long though.

It does get a lot easier with time.
Amanda

FlowerGirl wrote:

I can vaguely remember trying to keep my DD awake long enough to have
a decent feed when she was a very sleepy newborn. I would undress her
a little which seemed to help her stay awake long enough for a decent
feed. This problem didn't last very long though.


Thanks for the well wishes and information, everyone! I'm responding under
Amanda's post but I've read them all.

We have two main problems: 1) waking up to feed and 2) latching

I took him in for his weight check appointment today and they found he was
10% below his birth weight and sent me home with instructions to feed him
every two hours, and bottles of formula for him to supplement with. They
want to weigh him again tomorrow. I haven't used the formula as I'm able
to pump a couple of ounces after each attempted feeding. I'm so frustrated
because I can't feed him every two hours because is SOUND asleep. I undress
him and tickle feet and use a wet washcloth and every trick in the book.
Then, when he does wake up (usually around the 3-ish hour mark), I can't
get him to stay on my breast for any substantial length of time. I work
with him for 30-45 minutes and he does get some from the breast, but not
very much. I read on kellymom that we shouldn't work too hard at latching
and get him too frustrated because that will just cause an aversion. I get
good let downs, but not too powerful, as they don't choke him. I am hoping
he wakes up out of his sleepy newborn phase so that he will wake himself
when he is hungry and be more agreeable to latching on. Every time my hubby
tops him up with a bottle I feel like such a failure.

He has had about 4 decent, long feeds with good swallowing directly from
my breast. I know he (we) can do it, but I don't know why we aren't.

Thanks again for the support, this is probably a really jumbled post as I'm
feeling quite scattered right now.

--Jodi

"Jodi B" wrote in message
t.net...
FlowerGirl wrote:

I can vaguely remember trying to keep my DD awake long enough to have
a decent feed when she was a very sleepy newborn. I would undress her
a little which seemed to help her stay awake long enough for a decent
feed. This problem didn't last very long though.


Thanks for the well wishes and information, everyone! I'm responding
under
Amanda's post but I've read them all.

We have two main problems: 1) waking up to feed and 2) latching

I took him in for his weight check appointment today and they found he was
10% below his birth weight and sent me home with instructions to feed him
every two hours, and bottles of formula for him to supplement with. They
want to weigh him again tomorrow. I haven't used the formula as I'm able
to pump a couple of ounces after each attempted feeding. I'm so
frustrated
because I can't feed him every two hours because is SOUND asleep. I
undress
him and tickle feet and use a wet washcloth and every trick in the book.
Then, when he does wake up (usually around the 3-ish hour mark), I can't
get him to stay on my breast for any substantial length of time. I work
with him for 30-45 minutes and he does get some from the breast, but not
very much. I read on kellymom that we shouldn't work too hard at latching
and get him too frustrated because that will just cause an aversion. I
get
good let downs, but not too powerful, as they don't choke him. I am
hoping
he wakes up out of his sleepy newborn phase so that he will wake himself
when he is hungry and be more agreeable to latching on. Every time my
hubby
tops him up with a bottle I feel like such a failure.

He has had about 4 decent, long feeds with good swallowing directly from
my breast. I know he (we) can do it, but I don't know why we aren't.

Thanks again for the support, this is probably a really jumbled post as
I'm
feeling quite scattered right now.

--Jodi

You certainly aren't a failure!!! Its early days and what you describe
isn't particularly unusual. I remember being really frustrated with bf for
the first 5 days when bf my first child ... and then it started to come
together and pretty soon it became a breeze!

If I can count, he's on day 6 today? Its fairly normal to drop to 10% below
birthweight in the first week. ...and at 8lb 9oz, he's not exactly a low
birthweight baby so not a huge worry at this stage!
I vaguely remember that they should start gaining weight again by about day
10 -14 (both my kids had lost 10% birthweight by day 4 but packed in on
again pretty quickly ... but they weren't small at 7lb 10oz and 9lb 12oz
respectively). I've also heard that they should regain their birthweight by
10 days which neither of mine did... they gained it back by the 4-week mark
though.

What's a "substantial length of time" for a feed?
My DD would take 40 minutes to finish a side and my DS could be done and
dusted with both sides at 20 minutes.

...and what makes you think he isn't feeding well? (remembering that they
have really tiny tummies and its also quite hard to tell how much they are
getting when breastfeeding so can you see milk at the corners of his mouth
when he feeds? Regular swallowing?).

How many wet nappies in a day? Is the urine pale? If he's got pale uring
and going thorugh 6-8 nappies a day that's a good sign.

Kellymom is a good source of info, and another good source it the Australian
Breastfeeding Association: http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/default.htm

I'm no expert, but personally, I'd not be supplementing with formula at all
at this stage, rather and concentrating on getting him to have efficient
feeds when he's awake. Seeing a lactation consultant may help give you
pointers and help give you confidence.

Good luck and let us know how he goes over the next week or so.
Amanda

You are doing a great job.

Hi --

Remember, it's just about impossible to measure what goes into a
newborn. So don't even try! Instead, measure what comes out. Your
baby should have at least 6-8 soaking wet diapers every day and at least
one poopy diaper during the newborn period. Beyond that, just try not
to fret.

Unless the diaper count is too low, STOP topping off with bottles, even
bottles of EBM. The important thing to to establish the nursing
relationship and avoid confusing either your body or the baby, and
bottles will confuse the situation. (If the diaper count is too low,
then bottles of EBM are temporarily indicated, I should think.)

The nursing DOES get easier, I promise. For me, it took about a month
before I realized that it had become easy somewhere along the way. And
with both babies the first week was really rough, for different reasons
with each child. But the stress of the first week was worth it, in the
long run, and I hope you'll find the same thing yourself.

Congratulations on your new baby,
--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

In article t,
Jodi B wrote:

I just gave birth to my son on Sunday and I while I've lurked in this group
for a long time, I guess I'd like some encouragement now that I'm actually
in the thick of learning to bf a newborn.

Congratulations!

My milk came in with a vengance today. We are still learning to nurse
properly,
and while there are times that he feeds contendedly and well, they are
definitely
not the norm. More often we have latch-on-latch-off-repeatedly type sessions
where he gets a few good sucks and then tires out or yells for awhile.
Should
I be doing anything to get rid of the engorgement, or will things even out
on their own?

It will settle on its own eventually, but that can be a loooong time!

I suspect two things:

1. You are still learning your baby's hunger signals. Don't wait for him to
cry before you put him to the breast. When they cry they sometimes become too
overwrought to feed well. IF he starts mouthing, rooting, snuffling etc, try
him then.

2. If your breasts are very full it may be hard for him to get a good latch.
Try hand-expressing before you put him on. He needs to get his little gums
onto your areola, and when you are really full it's a bit like trying to suck
on a balloon!

BFing is a bit like ballroom dancing -- both of you have to learn the steps,
and learn to work together. OF course if you are in any sort of pain, seek
help from your local breastfeeding support group.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/

I took him in for his weight check appointment today and they found he
was 10% below his birth weight and sent me home with instructions to
feed him every two hours, and bottles of formula for him to supplement
with. They want to weigh him again tomorrow. I haven't used the
formula as I'm able to pump a couple of ounces after each attempted
feeding. I'm so frustrated because I can't feed him every two hours
because is SOUND asleep. I undress him and tickle feet and use a wet
washcloth and every trick in the book. Then, when he does wake up
(usually around the 3-ish hour mark), I can't get him to stay on my
breast for any substantial length of time. I work with him for 30-45
minutes and he does get some from the breast, but not very much. I read
on kellymom that we shouldn't work too hard at latching and get him too
frustrated because that will just cause an aversion. I get good let
downs, but not too powerful, as they don't choke him. I am hoping he
wakes up out of his sleepy newborn phase so that he will wake himself
when he is hungry and be more agreeable to latching on. Every time my
hubby tops him up with a bottle I feel like such a failure.

He has had about 4 decent, long feeds with good swallowing directly from
my breast. I know he (we) can do it, but I don't know why we aren't.

Thanks again for the support, this is probably a really jumbled post as
I'm feeling quite scattered right now.

Oh, you poor thing, how undermining your doctor has been. He's 5 days
old if I'm counting correctly, which is the exact time you'd expect him
to be at the max below birthweight and 10% less than birthweight is
absolutely fine. Most doctors use 10% as a threshold, but it's debatable
whether it's really necessary as long as other signs of health are
reassuring. Weighing the next day is incredibly unreliable, most people
weigh babies undressed and the weight can depend on when they weed and
pooed, he could by the scales have lost weight tomorrow, yet really have
gained.

Do not give any supplements of formula, they are entirely unnecessary
from the information you have given. You can check that he's doing ok by
monitoring hydration based on nappy output, which for a newborn should
be 6 wet nappies a day.

It's possible that a little boost might help him, which you can do with
your own breastmilk, you said you were engorged, so you should be able
to hand express into a cup, then give it to him by any method other than
a bottle, don't let a bottle anywhere near him until you have fully
established breastfeeding.

You don't mention any details about the birth - if you received IV
fluids for any length of time, the babies birth weight can be higher
than it really would have been and weight lost is simply loosing fluids
that were never even supposed to be there.

I really wouldn't go back for the weight check tomorrow, I'd watch to
see that he's hydrated, on the off chance he isn't supplement without
using a bottle with your own milk, but still don't go and get him
weighed. Continue to watch for hydration and only go get him weighed
when your curiosity gets the better of you!

Anne

(If the diaper count is too low,
then bottles of EBM are temporarily indicated, I should think.)

supplements of EBM rather than bottles, Beth, there are numerous ways to
get milk into a baby without resorting to a bottle. I suggested
supplementing by an alternate method regardless of diaper count because
at this age and being sleepy, there is a possibility of jaundice and
jaundiced babies don't regulate the amount they eat so well, yet it's
intake of breastmilk that helps them get passed the jaundice, so a small
amount of supplementation, say 10ml via syringe, might give him the
boost he needs to get beyond being too sleepy to feed well and fully
establish breastfeeding.

Anne