It's slow in here!

Chris and Kathleen did not sleep through the night until probably 18 to 19
months, and then like someone else it only meant they didn't get up at 1 but
somewhere about 3 or 4 and then slept until 7 or 8. My MIL said my DH
didn't sleep through the night until 17 months - maybe genetics.

OT: The twins got their braces Monday! Both have severe jaw issues that we
are trying to catch before they become candidates for surgery (severe class
3 -underbite). Kathleen actually has a squared upper jaw because if it and
Chris is having trouble with some tooth erosion from the way he bits
backwards and teeth that aren't coming through because of no room. They
chose different things which is interesting, Chris wanted the gold and
Kathleen was pink. So for a year they will be banded. It looks strange -
it adds to the "grown up" look. I will have 3rd graders in little less than
a month. Gosh guys - where does the time fly. Listening to all of you
write about sleep schedules makes me just cry.

Also OT: Not only have we lost our precious puppy of 12 years, and of
course you all know my dad died in February, but my MIL who we are living
with to take care (87 almost 88) has had a turn for the worst. She barely
gets out of bed except to eat, sleeps all day and walking is a chore even
with a walker. It's so sad. They did an MRI and we should shortly see if
there is something that was missed from her visit to the ER with severe head
pain. The nurse talked to us the other day and said that she has all the
symptoms of wanting to be ready to go. I really don't need another death
again.

Any how, hope all are enjoying their summer.

Shirley
Chris and Kathleen 1/95
the braces twins!
"Gerhild S." wrote in message
...
W wrote:

When did your twins/triplets begin sleeping through the night? I'm
interested in hearing your experiences.

Talking of different types of kids: DD slept through at 10 weeks, DS
doesn't reliably even now, at 10+ months, he wakes up at around 2-3 in
the morning (and a lot more when he's sick as he was last week).

Technically even DS is considered "sleeping through" as he goes to bed
at 8-9 pm and gets up at 5-6 pm, so, yes, there *is* an uninterrupted
6-hours period of sleep. However, it does not coincide with mine ;-)

Jonathan-

I agree, it has been slow around here. Are people on vacation? I miss reading
posts so I'm glad you jumped in with this one.

When did your twins/triplets begin sleeping through the night? I'm
interested in hearing your experiences.

Jordan slept through the night for the first time when she was 8 weeks old, but
the following night she didn't. A week or so later Madison slept through the
night once. The day I got them on a schedule (at 3 1/2 months) they started
sleeping through the night every night.

Congratulations to your DW on her new job!

Good luck with the daycare transition.

Andrea
twin girls-Jordan & Madison
3 yrs. old

Well, I guess if this Dr Thomas says it then it MUST be so....puhleez!

Goodness, I didn't mean to attack you, Gwen! I quoted Dr. Thomas's web site
because it seemed to me to be the best-written summary I could find of why
giving cereal to infants doesn't make them sleep through the night.

Here's an example of a study:

": Am J Dis Child. 1989 Sep;143(9):1066-8. Related Articles, Links


Infant sleep and bedtime cereal.

Macknin ML, Medendorp SV, Maier MC.

Department of Pediatrics, Cleveland Clinic Foundation, OH 44195-5045.

We studied whether feeding infants rice cereal before bedtime promotes their
sleeping through the night. One hundred six infants were randomly assigned to
begin bedtime cereal feeding (1 tablespoon per ounce in a bottle) at 5 weeks or
at 4 months of age. Caretakers recorded the infant's sleep from age 4 to 21
weeks for one 24-hour period per week. Sleeping through the night was defined
as sleeping at least 8 consecutive hours, with the majority of time being
between the hours of midnight and 6 AM. The results were also reviewed changing
the requirement from 8 hours to 6 hours. There was no statistically significant
trend or a consistent tendency of one group to have a higher proportion of
sleepers than the other. Therefore, feeding infants rice cereal in the bottle
before bedtime does not appear to make much difference in their sleeping
through the night.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial"

And here is some evidence that the general belief in the medical community is
against early introduction of solids (I apologize for the condescending tone of
this abstract! it isn't mine!):

" Pediatrics. 2001 May;107(5):E67. Related Articles, Links


Home and videotape intervention delays early complementary feeding among
adolescent mothers.

Black MM, Siegel EH, Abel Y, Bentley ME.

Department of Pediatrics, University of Maryland School of Medicine, Baltimore,
Maryland 21201, USA.

BACKGROUND: The American Academy of Pediatrics, the Special Supplemental
Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC), and the World Health
Organization recommend that infants receive only breast milk or formula for the
first 4 to 6 months of life, followed by the introduction of complementary
foods. Despite these recommendations, many infants, particularly those with
adolescent mothers, receive solid foods (often cereal mixed with formula in a
bottle) and liquids other than formula or breast milk in the first few weeks of
life. Decisions on early feeding are often guided by grandmothers and
influenced by beliefs that infants need complementary food to counteract
signals of hunger, reduce crying, and sleep through the night. OBJECTIVE: This
investigation evaluated the efficacy of an intervention to delay the early
introduction of complementary feeding among first-time, black, adolescent
mothers living in multigenerational households. The intervention focused on
reducing the cultural barriers to the acceptance of the recommendations of the
American Academy of Pediatrics, WIC, and World Health Organization on
complementary feeding by highlighting 3 topics: 1) recognition of infants'
cues; 2) nonfood strategies for managing infant behavior; and 3)
mother-grandmother negotiation strategies. The intervention was delivered
through a mentorship model in which a videotape made by an advisory group of
black adolescent mothers was incorporated into a home-visiting program and
evaluated through a randomized, controlled trial. METHODS: One hundred
eighty-one first-time, low-income, black mothers 18 years old, living in
multigenerational households were recruited from 3 urban hospitals. Infants
were born at term, with birth weight appropriate for gestational age and no
congenital problems. Shortly after delivery, mothers and grandmothers completed
a baseline assessment and mothers were randomized into an intervention or
control group. Intervention group mothers received home visitation every other
week for 1 year. At 3 months, a subset of 121 adolescent mothers reported on
their infant's intake through a food frequency questionnaire. Mothers who fed
their infant only breast milk, formula, or water were classified as optimal
feeders. Mothers who provided complementary foods other than breast milk,
formula, or water were classified as less optimal feeders. RESULTS: Sixty-one
percent of the infants received complementary foods before 3 months old.
Multivariate hierarchical logistic regression was used to evaluate the
determinants of being in the optimal versus less optimal feeders group. After
controlling for infant age and family income, mothers of infants in the optimal
feeders group were more likely to report accurate messages from WIC regarding
the timing of complementary food and nearly 4 times more likely to be in the
intervention group. The most common complementary food was cereal mixed with
formula in the bottle. CONCLUSIONS: The success of this relatively brief
intervention demonstrates the importance of using ecological theory and
ethnographic research to design interventions that enable participants to alter
their behavior in the face of contradictory cultural norms. The intervention
focused on interpreting infants' cues, nonfood methods of managing infant
behavior, and mother-grandmother negotiations. It was delivered through methods
that were familiar and acceptable to adolescent mothers-a mentorship model
incorporating home visits and videotape. The skill-oriented aspects of the
intervention delivered in a culturally sensitive context may have enabled the
young mothers to follow the guidelines that they received from WIC and from
their pediatricians. Strategies, such as those used in this intervention, may
be effective in promoting other caregiving recommendations, thereby enabling
providers to meet the increasing demands from parents for advice regarding
children's early growth and development.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Multicenter Study
Randomized Controlled Trial "

no problem, like I said, I was feeling a bit honery!!
but uh, have you broken down these articles??? The first one admits to only
recording data for 1 day per week....and they first classified their
sleeping requirements at a FULL 8 hours...then changed it to 6....we already
know that 5 hours is considered *sleeping through the night*....and not that
my opinion means anything but....I think they started the
feedings/recordings WAY too early!!! at 5 and 4 WEEKS!!!??!!! C'mon ...
that's barely a month old! ....and roughly crunching numbers...the median
for when they began Feeding was 12.2w (2.8months) and the median for
Recording was at 17weeks (3.95Mos!) That's quiet a difference when you're
talking about babies!

And the second article....HUH???!!! It's about Minorities, Adolescent, and
low-income Moms (not even that, *just* low income black teen moms) and how
they listen (and/or don't listen) to their moms/grandmothers!!....oh my,
there's so much to this one....it was based on a video tape, made by other
black teens, to be shown to the subject group...Oh, how I want to go on, but
you can break it down yourself....I'm losing critical house cleaning time
while my twins are sleeping (shame on me!!) lol.....and once I get out of my
newsgroup file, it deletes everything I've already read, so I won't be able
to come back to this....no, I'm not downloading everything again!! LOL
UG, I despise housecleaning!!
--
Gwen, Designer Wraps
SAHM to James (9-98) Austin and Amber (5-02)


tired of eBay? Try these great alternatives!
www.tobuytwo.com ....auction house for families of multiples (but singletons
can use it too!)
www.familyauction.com
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www.wahmauctions.com

We studied whether feeding infants rice cereal before bedtime promotes
their
sleeping through the night. One hundred six infants were randomly assigned
to
begin bedtime cereal feeding (1 tablespoon per ounce in a bottle) at 5
weeks or
at 4 months of age. Caretakers recorded the infant's sleep from age 4 to
21
weeks for one 24-hour period per week. Sleeping through the night was
defined
as sleeping at least 8 consecutive hours, with the majority of time being
between the hours of midnight and 6 AM. The results were also reviewed
changing
the requirement from 8 hours to 6 hours. There was no statistically
significant
trend or a consistent tendency of one group to have a higher proportion of
sleepers than the other. Therefore, feeding infants rice cereal in the
bottle
before bedtime does not appear to make much difference in their sleeping
through the night.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial"

And here is some evidence that the general belief in the medical community
is
against early introduction of solids (I apologize for the condescending
tone of
this abstract! it isn't mine!):

" Pediatrics. 2001 May;107(5):E67. Related Articles, Links


Home and videotape intervention delays early complementary feeding among
adolescent mothers.

Black MM, Siegel EH, Abel Y, Bentley ME.

Department of Pediatrics, University of Maryland School of Medicine,
Baltimore,
Maryland 21201, USA.

BACKGROUND: The American Academy of Pediatrics, the Special Supplemental
Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC), and the World
Health
Organization recommend that infants receive only breast milk or formula
for the
first 4 to 6 months of life, followed by the introduction of complementary
foods. Despite these recommendations, many infants, particularly those
with
adolescent mothers, receive solid foods (often cereal mixed with formula
in a
bottle) and liquids other than formula or breast milk in the first few
weeks of
life. Decisions on early feeding are often guided by grandmothers and
influenced by beliefs that infants need complementary food to counteract
signals of hunger, reduce crying, and sleep through the night. OBJECTIVE:
This
investigation evaluated the efficacy of an intervention to delay the early
introduction of complementary feeding among first-time, black, adolescent
mothers living in multigenerational households. The intervention focused
on
reducing the cultural barriers to the acceptance of the recommendations of
the
American Academy of Pediatrics, WIC, and World Health Organization on
complementary feeding by highlighting 3 topics: 1) recognition of infants'
cues; 2) nonfood strategies for managing infant behavior; and 3)
mother-grandmother negotiation strategies. The intervention was delivered
through a mentorship model in which a videotape made by an advisory group
of
black adolescent mothers was incorporated into a home-visiting program and
evaluated through a randomized, controlled trial. METHODS: One hundred
eighty-one first-time, low-income, black mothers 18 years old, living in
multigenerational households were recruited from 3 urban hospitals.
Infants
were born at term, with birth weight appropriate for gestational age and
no
congenital problems. Shortly after delivery, mothers and grandmothers
completed
a baseline assessment and mothers were randomized into an intervention or
control group. Intervention group mothers received home visitation every
other
week for 1 year. At 3 months, a subset of 121 adolescent mothers reported
on
their infant's intake through a food frequency questionnaire. Mothers who
fed
their infant only breast milk, formula, or water were classified as
optimal
feeders. Mothers who provided complementary foods other than breast milk,
formula, or water were classified as less optimal feeders. RESULTS:
Sixty-one
percent of the infants received complementary foods before 3 months old.
Multivariate hierarchical logistic regression was used to evaluate the
determinants of being in the optimal versus less optimal feeders group.
After
controlling for infant age and family income, mothers of infants in the
optimal
feeders group were more likely to report accurate messages from WIC
regarding
the timing of complementary food and nearly 4 times more likely to be in
the
intervention group. The most common complementary food was cereal mixed
with
formula in the bottle. CONCLUSIONS: The success of this relatively brief
intervention demonstrates the importance of using ecological theory and
ethnographic research to design interventions that enable participants to
alter
their behavior in the face of contradictory cultural norms. The
intervention
focused on interpreting infants' cues, nonfood methods of managing infant
behavior, and mother-grandmother negotiations. It was delivered through
methods
that were familiar and acceptable to adolescent mothers-a mentorship model
incorporating home visits and videotape. The skill-oriented aspects of the
intervention delivered in a culturally sensitive context may have enabled
the
young mothers to follow the guidelines that they received from WIC and
from
their pediatricians. Strategies, such as those used in this intervention,
may
be effective in promoting other caregiving recommendations, thereby
enabling
providers to meet the increasing demands from parents for advice regarding
children's early growth and development.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Multicenter Study
Randomized Controlled Trial "

Gwen ) wrote:

And the second article....HUH???!!! It's about Minorities, Adolescent, and
low-income Moms (not even that, *just* low income black teen moms) and how
they listen (and/or don't listen) to their moms/grandmothers!!.

I'm not talking about the validity of that study at all. I too think it sounded
stupid and condescending. The point was that it spelled out the current
recommendations. "The American Academy of Pediatrics, the Special Supplemental
Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC), and the World Health
Organization recommend that infants receive only breast milk or formula for the
first 4 to 6 months of life, followed by the introduction of complementary
foods." That was the part I was focusing on.

--Helen

lol...ok, if I had time I was going to point out that only that one sentence
was reflective of those organizations....LOL...whew, I feel better now! it
was fun reading it though and breaking it down.....it was nice to see my
brain again! I guess there's hope of a recovery from "momma mush brain"! lol
The sad thing is that someone funded that "study"...talk about money best
used elsewhere!

--
Gwen, Designer Wraps
SAHM to James (9-98) Austin and Amber (5-02)


tired of eBay? Try these great alternatives!
www.tobuytwo.com ....auction house for families of multiples (but singletons
can use it too!)
www.familyauction.com
www.wahmall.com
www.wahmauctions.com

"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
Gwen ) wrote:

And the second article....HUH???!!! It's about Minorities, Adolescent,
and
low-income Moms (not even that, *just* low income black teen moms) and
how
they listen (and/or don't listen) to their moms/grandmothers!!.

I'm not talking about the validity of that study at all. I too think it
sounded
stupid and condescending. The point was that it spelled out the current
recommendations. "The American Academy of Pediatrics, the Special
Supplemental
Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC), and the World
Health
Organization recommend that infants receive only breast milk or formula
for the
first 4 to 6 months of life, followed by the introduction of complementary
foods." That was the part I was focusing on.

--Helen

lol...ok, if I had time I was going to point out that only that one sentence
was reflective of those organizations....LOL...whew, I feel better now! it
was fun reading it though and breaking it down.....it was nice to see my
brain again! I guess there's hope of a recovery from "momma mush brain"! lol
The sad thing is that someone funded that "study"...talk about money best
used elsewhere!

--
Gwen, Designer Wraps
SAHM to James (9-98) Austin and Amber (5-02)


tired of eBay? Try these great alternatives!
www.tobuytwo.com ....auction house for families of multiples (but singletons
can use it too!)
www.familyauction.com
www.wahmall.com
www.wahmauctions.com

"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
Gwen ) wrote:

And the second article....HUH???!!! It's about Minorities, Adolescent,
and
low-income Moms (not even that, *just* low income black teen moms) and
how
they listen (and/or don't listen) to their moms/grandmothers!!.

I'm not talking about the validity of that study at all. I too think it
sounded
stupid and condescending. The point was that it spelled out the current
recommendations. "The American Academy of Pediatrics, the Special
Supplemental
Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC), and the World
Health
Organization recommend that infants receive only breast milk or formula
for the
first 4 to 6 months of life, followed by the introduction of complementary
foods." That was the part I was focusing on.

--Helen

lol...ok, if I had time I was going to point out that only that one sentence
was reflective of those organizations....LOL...whew, I feel better now! it
was fun reading it though and breaking it down.....it was nice to see my
brain again! I guess there's hope of a recovery from "momma mush brain"! lol
The sad thing is that someone funded that "study"...talk about money best
used elsewhere!

--
Gwen, Designer Wraps
SAHM to James (9-98) Austin and Amber (5-02)


tired of eBay? Try these great alternatives!
www.tobuytwo.com ....auction house for families of multiples (but singletons
can use it too!)
www.familyauction.com
www.wahmall.com
www.wahmauctions.com

"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
Gwen ) wrote:

And the second article....HUH???!!! It's about Minorities, Adolescent,
and
low-income Moms (not even that, *just* low income black teen moms) and
how
they listen (and/or don't listen) to their moms/grandmothers!!.

I'm not talking about the validity of that study at all. I too think it
sounded
stupid and condescending. The point was that it spelled out the current
recommendations. "The American Academy of Pediatrics, the Special
Supplemental
Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC), and the World
Health
Organization recommend that infants receive only breast milk or formula
for the
first 4 to 6 months of life, followed by the introduction of complementary
foods." That was the part I was focusing on.

--Helen

lol...ok, if I had time I was going to point out that only that one sentence
was reflective of those organizations....LOL...whew, I feel better now! it
was fun reading it though and breaking it down.....it was nice to see my
brain again! I guess there's hope of a recovery from "momma mush brain"! lol
The sad thing is that someone funded that "study"...talk about money best
used elsewhere!

--
Gwen, Designer Wraps
SAHM to James (9-98) Austin and Amber (5-02)


tired of eBay? Try these great alternatives!
www.tobuytwo.com ....auction house for families of multiples (but singletons
can use it too!)
www.familyauction.com
www.wahmall.com
www.wahmauctions.com

"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
Gwen ) wrote:

And the second article....HUH???!!! It's about Minorities, Adolescent,
and
low-income Moms (not even that, *just* low income black teen moms) and
how
they listen (and/or don't listen) to their moms/grandmothers!!.

I'm not talking about the validity of that study at all. I too think it
sounded
stupid and condescending. The point was that it spelled out the current
recommendations. "The American Academy of Pediatrics, the Special
Supplemental
Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC), and the World
Health
Organization recommend that infants receive only breast milk or formula
for the
first 4 to 6 months of life, followed by the introduction of complementary
foods." That was the part I was focusing on.

--Helen

lol...ok, if I had time I was going to point out that only that one sentence
was reflective of those organizations....LOL...whew, I feel better now! it
was fun reading it though and breaking it down.....it was nice to see my
brain again! I guess there's hope of a recovery from "momma mush brain"! lol
The sad thing is that someone funded that "study"...talk about money best
used elsewhere!

--
Gwen, Designer Wraps
SAHM to James (9-98) Austin and Amber (5-02)


tired of eBay? Try these great alternatives!
www.tobuytwo.com ....auction house for families of multiples (but singletons
can use it too!)
www.familyauction.com
www.wahmall.com
www.wahmauctions.com

"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
Gwen ) wrote:

And the second article....HUH???!!! It's about Minorities, Adolescent,
and
low-income Moms (not even that, *just* low income black teen moms) and
how
they listen (and/or don't listen) to their moms/grandmothers!!.

I'm not talking about the validity of that study at all. I too think it
sounded
stupid and condescending. The point was that it spelled out the current
recommendations. "The American Academy of Pediatrics, the Special
Supplemental
Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC), and the World
Health
Organization recommend that infants receive only breast milk or formula
for the
first 4 to 6 months of life, followed by the introduction of complementary
foods." That was the part I was focusing on.

--Helen