Homework for a 5 year old - how much involvement needed.

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
And this is precisely why homework at this age is
such a bad thing.

I agree that homework at this age is unnecessary. Even
my son's second grade teacher admits that studies have
shown it has no benefit. Nonetheless, they assign it,
so we do it.

the energy to focus after a long day at school). On the
other hand, you're setting yourself up for years and years
of being that involved with homework, which can easily
eat you alive with multiple school-aged children who
each have more and more homework every year. It's not

This I don't agree with. My fifth grader does her homework
completely on her own. She'll show me the completed work
if I ask for it, but otherwise, I may not see it at all. Just
because you give a lot of help in the earlier grades doesn't
mean that you will necessarily keep that level of involvement
as they grow. It may be something that you need to keep
aware of. Do a self-check every now and then to see if
your level of involvement is right. But that's true for
everything. How many people tie their kindergartener's
shoes? And how many tie their fifth grader's shoes? I don't
see why homework would be any different.

Bizby

"Nan" wrote in message
...
On 10 Nov 2005 09:10:50 -0800, Banty wrote:
My son had to write a weekly composition in 3rd grade. If you think
they're all
playing hangman, maybe that's why you don't get why this is a problem.

Okay, now I'm wondering.... when are letter grades being given to the
kids? I never received a letter grade until Jr. High (Middle School),
and I don't think my ds did, either. I recall his "report cards"
having the options of Satisfactory, Unsatisfactory, and Needs
Improvement (although I'm not sure what the difference between
Unsatisfactory and Needs Improvement would be!).

My kids' report cards since K have had the equivalent of letter grades for
all academic marks: a 4 is Advanced (an A), a 3 is Proficient (a B), 2 is
Basic and 1 is Below Basic. The options of Outstanding, Satisfactory and
Needs Improvement are only available for citizenship/effort scores. Just
because they aren't letters doesn't make them any less "grades". I think
they switch over to the letter grade system in middle school, but they've
been getting them since the beginning.

My thinking is that until the letter grades are being given and
actually *count*, then what's the big deal with not enforcing the
homework you disagree with?

Well, for starters, it may be teaching your child that it is perfectly okay
not to do assigned work if your don't agreee with it. I think that could
have some pretty negative consequences when it comes to convincing the child
that *school*work needs to be completed, let alone homework.
--
Be well, Barbara

In article ,
Nan wrote:

On 10 Nov 2005 09:10:50 -0800, Banty wrote:


My son had to write a weekly composition in 3rd grade. If you think they're
all
playing hangman, maybe that's why you don't get why this is a problem.

Okay, now I'm wondering.... when are letter grades being given to the
kids? I never received a letter grade until Jr. High (Middle School),
and I don't think my ds did, either. I recall his "report cards"
having the options of Satisfactory, Unsatisfactory, and Needs
Improvement (although I'm not sure what the difference between
Unsatisfactory and Needs Improvement would be!).

My thinking is that until the letter grades are being given and
actually *count*, then what's the big deal with not enforcing the
homework you disagree with? I always saw the report card as nothing
more than a tool to let me see if there are areas my ds needed help
in, and not much more than that.

Nan

My kids all got letter grades from first grade on.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

"Caledonia" wrote in message
oups.com...

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Beth Kevles wrote:

The other useful homework is 20 minutes/day of free reading. DO help
your child on this one if your child needs help. Otherwise, just keep
an eye on what your child likes to read. (It makes gift times so much
easier if you know what they've already read!)

Yet another unintended consequence of too much
homework in the early grades. Kids don't read for
pleasure when they've had a full day of school followed
by wrestling through lots of homework. For many kids,
their mental energy is *gone* by that time.

Hmmm...Given that their mental energy is *gone*, though, does this also
mean that having kids then take dancing/karate/soccer practice/cub
scouts after school is also not a good idea? All of these require some
mental focus, too.

Perhaps, but physical activities such as dance or sports can actually
be mentally invigorating. And even not as physical clubs are an
entirely different thing, being something the child has chosen and
are interested in.

I think that 20 minutes of free reading -- or having a parent read to a
kid for 20 minutes -- is not that onerous, IMO.

It really depends on the child. I have one that loves to read and
be read to. Another that loves to be read to, but hates to read.
So for some children, it definitely can be onerous.

Bizby

"Welches" wrote in message
...
The other useful homework is 20 minutes/day of free reading. DO help
your child on this one if your child needs help. Otherwise, just keep
an eye on what your child likes to read. (It makes gift times so much
easier if you know what they've already read!)
20 minutes a day? Do you mean a week? I think getting a 5yo to read for 20
minutes each day is going to discourage an awful lot. If they want to then
fine, but 20 minutes is a long time for a new reader to read. Certainly #1
finds reading very tiring, and she's a pretty good reader for her age.

That 20 minutes can be reading, or being read to. With my daughter
we did a lot of, "You read a page, I'll read a page." With my son,
generally we read the longer chapter books he's getting into, and
then have him read us a shorter picture book.

I've always pretty much ignored that requirement though, since I
can't think of a time when we've done only 20 minutes a day.

Bizby

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:44:48 -0800, "Circe" wrote:

My kids' report cards since K have had the equivalent of letter grades for
all academic marks: a 4 is Advanced (an A), a 3 is Proficient (a B), 2 is
Basic and 1 is Below Basic. The options of Outstanding, Satisfactory and
Needs Improvement are only available for citizenship/effort scores. Just
because they aren't letters doesn't make them any less "grades". I think
they switch over to the letter grade system in middle school, but they've
been getting them since the beginning.

I have to admit we haven't seen a grade for my dd in K yet, so I'm
unsure how our elementary school does this.

My thinking is that until the letter grades are being given and
actually *count*, then what's the big deal with not enforcing the
homework you disagree with?

Well, for starters, it may be teaching your child that it is perfectly okay
not to do assigned work if your don't agreee with it. I think that could
have some pretty negative consequences when it comes to convincing the child
that *school*work needs to be completed, let alone homework.

Yes, I can see how that would be a possible drawback. However, for
those parents complaining that homework is proven to be useless at
these grade levels, and how it interferes with their family life, it
could be a possible solution.
Until the grade actually means something, I don't get the push to
enforce it.

Nan

"bizby40" wrote in message
...

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
And this is precisely why homework at this age is
such a bad thing.

I agree that homework at this age is unnecessary. Even
my son's second grade teacher admits that studies have
shown it has no benefit. Nonetheless, they assign it,
so we do it.

the energy to focus after a long day at school). On the
other hand, you're setting yourself up for years and years
of being that involved with homework, which can easily
eat you alive with multiple school-aged children who
each have more and more homework every year. It's not

This I don't agree with. My fifth grader does her homework
completely on her own. She'll show me the completed work
if I ask for it, but otherwise, I may not see it at all. Just
because you give a lot of help in the earlier grades doesn't
mean that you will necessarily keep that level of involvement
as they grow. It may be something that you need to keep
aware of. Do a self-check every now and then to see if
your level of involvement is right. But that's true for
everything. How many people tie their kindergartener's
shoes? And how many tie their fifth grader's shoes? I don't
see why homework would be any different.

Bizby


Even if helping your child in kindy *is* a mistake, I have never beleived
that parents cannot correct their mistakes. It can be a tough transition
when you have new procedures and rules in the house... But the transition is
quickly over, at least for our little ones.

Stephanie wrote:
"Chookie" wrote in message
...

In article .com,
"Barbara" wrote:


I don't understand the concept of getting ready for 3rd and 4th grade
homework in kindy and 1st grade. But that's just me. (Or then it isn't
since
I've seen such articles on the 'net).

My feeling is that kids need to practice what they've learned. I just
don't think it's unreasonable to ask a kid to do ten math problems,

@ 2 mins ea that's 20 mins....


write sentences using his spelling words,

... assuming 20 words that's probably another 20-30 mins...


read a paragraph and answer a couple of questions about it,

...say another 10 mins...

50-60 mins of "reinforcement" seems to me a bit much for Grade 3-4 (here,
that
would be 8-9yos -- I think I was doing about 30 mins at that age), and
that's
assuming the child finds these things -- and the writing -- easy. I still
remember sobbing over my 3* and 4* tables in 3rd grade, and other kids
were
probably sobbing over the word list at that time (I was a big reader and I
don't remember ever seeing an unfamiliar word on a spelling list).




For me it was the sheer frustration of jamming through another super easy
stupid reiteration of something I had gotten days ago. Anyone ever thought
that age based education is a wrong way to go?



Sure. That's why some schools have multi-age classes. They're
age-based to an extent; but, for example, my 4th grader is in an upper
elementary class (grades 4-6) in a public Montessori school.

Clisby


--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"In Melbourne there is plenty of vigour and eagerness, but there is
nothing worth being eager or vigorous about."
Francis Adams, The Australians, 1893.

In article , Nan says...

On 10 Nov 2005 09:10:50 -0800, Banty wrote:


My son had to write a weekly composition in 3rd grade. If you think they're all
playing hangman, maybe that's why you don't get why this is a problem.

Okay, now I'm wondering.... when are letter grades being given to the
kids? I never received a letter grade until Jr. High (Middle School),
and I don't think my ds did, either. I recall his "report cards"
having the options of Satisfactory, Unsatisfactory, and Needs
Improvement (although I'm not sure what the difference between
Unsatisfactory and Needs Improvement would be!).

My thinking is that until the letter grades are being given and
actually *count*, then what's the big deal with not enforcing the
homework you disagree with? I always saw the report card as nothing
more than a tool to let me see if there are areas my ds needed help
in, and not much more than that.

Doesn't work that way.

They do really require that homework be handed in. So about the best you can do
is to slough off on the assignment and turn in a poor product. But there are
two problem with that:

1. My son wanted to do a decent job. Letter grade or no.
2. Is this something I'd ever want to teach anyway??!? (Even skippin the
homework?)

Banty

Nan

Banty wrote:
In article .com, Caledonia
says...


Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Beth Kevles wrote:

The other useful homework is 20 minutes/day of free reading. DO help
your child on this one if your child needs help. Otherwise, just keep
an eye on what your child likes to read. (It makes gift times so much
easier if you know what they've already read!)

Yet another unintended consequence of too much
homework in the early grades. Kids don't read for
pleasure when they've had a full day of school followed
by wrestling through lots of homework. For many kids,
their mental energy is *gone* by that time.

Hmmm...Given that their mental energy is *gone*, though, does this also
mean that having kids then take dancing/karate/soccer practice/cub
scouts after school is also not a good idea? All of these require some
mental focus, too.

But these things are quite different and really don't call on the same kind of
focus. They're a big change of pace from the schooling activities.

Too true -- and I was bringing these up in a devil's advocate fashion.

It seems to me (IRL) that having little kids participate in an
organized/structured physical activity (versus just walking, playing
kick the can, playing on the monkey bars, etc.) is socially lauded --
even with the attendant practices that these activities require. (For
the first grade soccer league in town, it's 2 weekly practices of 45
minutes each plus 1weekly game lasting ~ 1 hour.) Yet suggest 90
minutes of homework per week, and some people think that the school
system has gone too far....

I mean, for pete's sake, the whole point of practicing soccer is to
improve (ditto piano, dance, karate) -- so why is it so crazy to have
kids also practice some of what they've covered in school? Is it
because organized/structured physical activities (and yep, I'm
stressing the 'organized/structured laden with rules' activities,
because I'm all for letting kids run around in the yard and make up
their own rules) somehow addresses another part of their development,
the part that's okay to devote hours to practicing? Grr.

(Sorry -- I'm ranting. Too much exposure in my youth to a school
centered around AAAA football, perhaps. But grrrrr...)

Caledonia








I think that 20 minutes of free reading -- or having a parent read to a
kid for 20 minutes -- is not that onerous, IMO. The only activity I can
think of for someone whose mental energy is *gone* -- an entirely
passive activity that requires zilch on the part of the participant --
is watching television, which I'm pretty sure isn't what you're
suggesting.

Well, I didnt' take her as meaning no mental energy at all, rather just that
they can be wrung out from the kind of focus and concentration it takes to deal
heavily with symbolic things.

Banty