Update on DS and the sleep situation

(For the benefit of misc.kids, for whom this isn't an update - DS is now
6 days old. I added the c'post in in search of any advice on any ideas
I might have missed.)

Well, I now think the main problem is just that he doesn't like sleeping
alone in his cot. I fed him loads during the day yesterday, and he was
awake a bit more, as in-laws had come down to visit & so he was fussed
over a lot. But he still woke up after only about an hour and a half in
his cot at night and fussed, but then wasn't too interested in feeding,
but wouldn't settle when he went back in his cot. At first I thought it
was a repetition of the "can't decide whether he wants food or not"
situation that we'd had for a couple of nights, but, in fact, he only
took two very short feeds of a few minutes each and just wouldn't take
any more. He slept fine on my lap, and he slept fine in the car seat
once I gave up on trying to get him to sleep & decided just to get up
myself, but he wouldn't settle in the cot, despite me holding his hands,
patting him, and playing the musical projection mobile that his
grandparents brought him when they visited. All of this worked for a
bit, but then he kept waking up again each time, and when I waited to
see whether he would settle himself to sleep, instead he got worse. So
the problem is obviously the cot.

This is not currently an insurmountable problem - the in-laws are around
for a few days, then my mother is coming up for the afternoon after
that, so there will be no shortage of people willing to take care of him
between feeds while I nap. I can keep going that way for a while. But
obviously I'd like to get him to sleep during the night as well, and
although I could just put him in his car seat for that, I remember
reading on one of these groups that leaving babies for too long in a car
seat is bad for their circulation. Co-sleeping would be an obvious
answer, but not one I'm comfortable with, having read the research
showing a possible link with SIDS (I _know_ it isn't conclusive, given
the immensely tricky nature of investigating such a problem, but there
is enough of a question mark over it to make me feel it's not a risk I'm
comfortable taking. Well, at least, not yet. I make no promises as to
how I'm going to feel when the sleep deprivation really hits home and
all the relatives who could watch him have departed.)

Anyway, what I'm going to try is:

Swaddling him. I tried this last night & it actually seemed to make him
quite irritable when he'd previously been happy, but I'm going to try
again & experiment with different techniques, just in case it was my
inexperience that was the problem there.

Trying him in the big cot during the day, to see whether it's the
mattress that's actually the problem. (At night, he's in a travel cot,
as we wanted him next to our bed but didn't want to shell out for a
Moses basket that would only last a few months.) This may well be the
case, as it's quite a hard mattress, even now that DH has padded it with
a folded blanket underneath. If he is OK in the big cot, we can move
that into our room and I'll happily put up with losing the drawer space
in my nightstand. ;-)

Getting him used to the cot in small periods of time during the day, by
putting him there and then holding his hands/talking to him every time
he fusses.

White noise during the night.

A dummy (pacifier). Not keen on this one, as we'll only end up waking
up anyway to replace it every time it falls out & he wakes up.

So that gives me some things to try, now I know what the problem is.
Thought I'd see what other people thought, though, as I know lots of
people here have read "No-Cry Sleep Solutions", which I don't have, and
also have no doubt been through the same thing.

All in all, I must say I'm extremely lucky. So far, he's been good as
gold during the day, so at least I'll be able to make up sleep time in
the daytime between feeds. If this is the worst problem we have to deal
with, I'll be one lucky parent. ;-)


All the best,

Sarah


--
Mum to Jamie, 20th November 2004

I think you've hit on the right idea, it sound like it is the cot. Our DS
NEVER slept well in a travel cot, the holiday we did when he was 10 months
old he ended up sleeping on a single mattress between our single bed. I wish
I had ben able to deduce this before asking MIL to buy a travel cot as a
Christmas present, we don't co sleep, but with the disaster of the travel
cot we've had to on those nights when he should have been using that,
however he was older by then, so I was more comfortable with it.

Do you have a washing basket? Or a spare drawer? you can line one with a
sheet, buy a small mattress or just use a folded up blanket, and voila you
have a cosy sleeping space. We had borrowed a moses basket, but despite
that, I wish we had bought a carrycot attachment for our pushchair, it was
very convienient to be able to clip the car seat on, but my feeling was that
he spent too much time in the carseat, which just isn't a good position for
a baby to be for a long time.

I honestly would be really tempted to "cosleep", my version of cosleeping
early on was lie down and let him fall asleep on my tummy, then when he was
asleep I'd move him to a cosy nest we'd made between our two pillows, way
out of the way of the duvet (which is what seems to be the main risk), we
didn't do this every night and I don't think we did it at all after DS was
10 days old ish. But it solved the problem of the moment I tried to transfer
him to the moses basket he woke up.

What have you been doing in the day time? You mention you had in laws
around, suggest they take him out for a walk in the afternoon, new research
suggests that exposure to daylight in the afternoon helps babies sort out
their body clocks.

Hope some of this might help

Anne

This may just be that you are so close to him that he wants to be
closer. That may be why the swaddling doesn't work - it is kind of
substitute for closeness and he's rejecting it.

I'd try two different things.

Put him down when he 'normally' sleeps in the travel cot and see if he
will sleep there.

Then try it in his room.

If he will sleep in the travel cot during the day then it's not the
travel cot.

Try the bigger bed in your bedroom during the day

If he will not sleep there, then it is not the bed at all, it is the
bedroom.

I had a child who seemed to want to wake and play at night although
she slept fine during the day. I watched a lot of late night TV.
This phase didn't last very long. So it may be that things will
change pretty soon,

I also had to give this child a pacifier because she was sucking her
hands so vigorously as to make them red and blistered. But she did
not want to eat. I didn't have to wake up and give it back to her.

I'm also not sure about your techniques for getting him to sleep.
Patting him worked better for me when I patted them on the back and if
he sleeps on his back (we didn't know about SIDS then) that won't work
well. I never heard of holding the baby's hands. I would not think a
musical mobile would work either - would tend to wake him up. It may
be that you are just mis-timing the withdrawal of attention.

It also might be that you need to keep him up during the day more.

grandma Rosalie

"Sarah Vaughan" wrote in message
Well, I now think the main problem is just that he doesn't like sleeping
alone in his cot.

Lots of babies don't like to sleep in the crib (cot). I didn't have that
problem with two of my children, but DD3 came home and didn't like sleeping
by herself. I ended up bringing her to bed with me for the first month and
then she was able to transfer to the bassinet I had in our room. Co-sleeping
does have some risks, but taking away the risks such as pillows and heavy
blankets is the main problem. I slept with DD3 in the crook of my arm so her
head up up more and her body was underneath blankets. Some things to try are
swaddling again (I understand he didn't like it at first), warmer bed by
trying to put a hot water bottle in the bed to warm it up, white noise in
the room such as a fan and/or rocking/feeding him until he is sound asleep
and then transfer him. Realize though that trying to get baby to sleep on
any schedule or routine at this point is going to be a moot point right now.
Everything in a newborn's world is cured by mommy's milk and a warm body to
snuggle up against. ;o)
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

Sarah, there isn't a problem at all. Your baby sounds entirely normal
- its to be expected that a newborn will take some time to settle into
a regular pattern (and some never really do, because of inborn clock
and temperment factors). Newborns eat very frequently, and sleep in
fits and starts. With time, both feedings and sleep cycles will space
out and the sleep cycles will get longer and deeper. You can't do much
about it at this point, since a lot of what you are seeing is a
product of neurological immaturity. Babies do NOT sleep like toddlers,
who don't sleep like older children, and NONE of them sleep like
adults. Takes a lot of growing up and maturing before that happens.
What I mean by this is that if you were to attach a brain monitor on
your baby, their sleep patterns, which are entirely normal for their
stage of develolpment, don't look anything like what you would think
was healthy for an older kid or an adult.

Every kid is different, and most don't really get past this stage
until the 2-4 month neighbourhood.

Mary G.
Mom of three

In misc.kids.pregnancy Sarah Vaughan wrote:

: Anyway, what I'm going to try is:

: Swaddling him. I tried this last night & it actually seemed to make him
: quite irritable when he'd previously been happy, but I'm going to try
: again & experiment with different techniques, just in case it was my
: inexperience that was the problem there.

: Trying him in the big cot during the day, to see whether it's the
: mattress that's actually the problem. (At night, he's in a travel cot,
: as we wanted him next to our bed but didn't want to shell out for a
: Moses basket that would only last a few months.) This may well be the
: case, as it's quite a hard mattress, even now that DH has padded it with
: a folded blanket underneath. If he is OK in the big cot, we can move
: that into our room and I'll happily put up with losing the drawer space
: in my nightstand. ;-)

: Getting him used to the cot in small periods of time during the day, by
: putting him there and then holding his hands/talking to him every time
: he fusses.

: White noise during the night.

: A dummy (pacifier). Not keen on this one, as we'll only end up waking
: up anyway to replace it every time it falls out & he wakes up.

Have you tried co-sleeping? I think that can be a great boon to both
baby and the mom.

Larry

"Sarah Vaughan" wrote in message
news
(For the benefit of misc.kids, for whom this isn't an update - DS is now 6
days old. I added the c'post in in search of any advice on any ideas I
might have missed.)

Well, I now think the main problem is just that he doesn't like sleeping
alone in his cot. I fed him loads during the day yesterday, and he was
awake a bit more, as in-laws had come down to visit & so he was fussed
over a lot. But he still woke up after only about an hour and a half in
his cot at night and fussed, but then wasn't too interested in feeding,
but wouldn't settle when he went back in his cot. At first I thought it
was a repetition of the "can't decide whether he wants food or not"
situation that we'd had for a couple of nights, but, in fact, he only took
two very short feeds of a few minutes each and just wouldn't take any
more. He slept fine on my lap, and he slept fine in the car seat once I
gave up on trying to get him to sleep & decided just to get up myself, but
he wouldn't settle in the cot, despite me holding his hands, patting him,
and playing the musical projection mobile that his grandparents brought
him when they visited. All of this worked for a bit, but then he kept
waking up again each time, and when I waited to see whether he would
settle himself to sleep, instead he got worse. So the problem is
obviously the cot.

This could also be just a temporary thing. I usually have our babies in a
bassinet downstairs and a Pack N Play with bassinet feature upstairs in our
room until they are 6-10 weeks old, then I'll move them into their crib
(cot) in their room at night. Cribs are pretty big wide open spaces when
baby is used to sleeping in a car seat or bassinet. Sometimes putting
rolled up towels or blankets around them can help them feel more closed in
and safe.

This is not currently an insurmountable problem - the in-laws are around
for a few days, then my mother is coming up for the afternoon after that,
so there will be no shortage of people willing to take care of him between
feeds while I nap. I can keep going that way for a while. But obviously
I'd like to get him to sleep during the night as well, and although I
could just put him in his car seat for that, I remember reading on one of
these groups that leaving babies for too long in a car seat is bad for
their circulation. Co-sleeping would be an obvious answer, but not one
I'm comfortable with, having read the research showing a possible link
with SIDS (I _know_ it isn't conclusive, given the immensely tricky nature
of investigating such a problem, but there is enough of a question mark
over it to make me feel it's not a risk I'm comfortable taking. Well, at
least, not yet. I make no promises as to how I'm going to feel when the
sleep deprivation really hits home and all the relatives who could watch
him have departed.)

Anyway, what I'm going to try is:

Swaddling him. I tried this last night & it actually seemed to make him
quite irritable when he'd previously been happy, but I'm going to try
again & experiment with different techniques, just in case it was my
inexperience that was the problem there.

Both of my girls have really responded well to swaddling. But, in the
beginning, right after being swaddled the first bunch of times, they'd often
fight it for a few minutes. Also, if I did it too losely, they'd continue
to fight it until they wriggled their arms loose. If I do it super tight,
they fight it for a few moments until they realise that it's futile, then
they relax into it. So, try it tighter, and don't give up on it too easily.

Trying him in the big cot during the day, to see whether it's the mattress
that's actually the problem. (At night, he's in a travel cot, as we
wanted him next to our bed but didn't want to shell out for a Moses basket
that would only last a few months.) This may well be the case, as it's
quite a hard mattress, even now that DH has padded it with a folded
blanket underneath. If he is OK in the big cot, we can move that into our
room and I'll happily put up with losing the drawer space in my
nightstand. ;-)

It might be a few issues with the mattress...it could be hard, and cold. I
use a Lamby brand lambskin for my babies to sleep on. It's great for
softening the hard mattress, feels less cold to the touch, and is a great
insulator. You can get them at www.lamby.com. I highly recommend them.
The other thing I do from early on is hold baby with blankets against their
back. Once they have fallen asleep, you can transfer them down and lay them
on the already warm blanket, then cover them up some more. This helps them
feel less of the cold matress against them, and I think helps them not wake
up during transfer. It doesn't always work, but seems to greatly improve
the odds. The other nice thing about using a lambskin is that once they are
used to sleeping on it in a bassinet, you move the lamby to the cot, and it
still feels like bed. And you take it travelling and any bed feels like
"home".

Getting him used to the cot in small periods of time during the day, by
putting him there and then holding his hands/talking to him every time he
fusses.

Yes, I did this with Taylor before I moved her into her crib for nights. We
had a mobile that she loved, and I could let her lay in her crib for 5-10
minutes at a time at first, mesmerized by the mobile. Gradually I upped the
times and lengths, and once she was happy in there for 20 minutes awake, I
put her in for naps and night sleeps.

White noise during the night.

A dummy (pacifier). Not keen on this one, as we'll only end up waking up
anyway to replace it every time it falls out & he wakes up.

So that gives me some things to try, now I know what the problem is.
Thought I'd see what other people thought, though, as I know lots of
people here have read "No-Cry Sleep Solutions", which I don't have, and
also have no doubt been through the same thing.

All in all, I must say I'm extremely lucky. So far, he's been good as
gold during the day, so at least I'll be able to make up sleep time in the
daytime between feeds. If this is the worst problem we have to deal with,
I'll be one lucky parent. ;-)


All the best,

Sarah


--
Mum to Jamie, 20th November 2004


Congrats on the safe arrival of baby Jamie! Love the name, by the way!
--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03
Addison Grace, 9/30/04

Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1, Password:
Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password