Video games

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

You may have a situation where too much was asked
of you as a child, with a bunch of guilt-tripping thrown
in for good measure. There are, however, many other kids
to whom much is given and relatively little expected who
need some significant reminding of their obligations, and
who can stand to be reminded without being dealt a crushing
blow of guilt. I assume in your case, at least now as an
adult, you are quite capable of seeing the difference
between what you actually owe your mother and what are
unrealistic expectations on her part and unfair guilt
trips. There's a world of difference between that
and legitimate, appropriate expectations on kids and
their behavior.

I don't think too much was asked of me. I think actually that too
much was asked of her. She and her brother got very sick when they
were children and her brother died. She was the first grandchild on
both sides and was a girl. She felt that everyone wished that she had
been the one that died because she was a girl, and that the whole
weight of expectations of the family were on her to fulfill. She had
to excel. Also her dad was a gambler and alcoholic and I expect that
played into it too. She wanted to be perfect so that he wouldn't be
mad at her.

She was quite sensible really in most cases. Actually one of the most
irritating things about her was that she was almost always right. She
just cared a lot about what other people thought of us, and did not
want me to behave in any way (such as yelling where other people could
hear, or fighting with my sister) that would make people think that we
were not superior people. I felt that she cared more about what other
people thought than what I felt. It was disrespectful to disagree
with her, and if one actually did that and pushed the issue, she would
get all hurt. And because she visited her grandparents every week,
she expected that her children and grandchildren would visit quite
often.

I do think that nowadays, kids are sometimes not very well socialized
as to how to give respect. Every time I see that CarMax commercial I
cringe, and so does dh. It's a very riveting commercial (the one
where the girl is given a red convertible for her 16th bday and has a
tantrum because it is not blue). Only a parent could love a child
like that and they probably haven't loved her in the right way.

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..

No, I didn't say anything about the timing of
the comment. It's not really necessary, as it's a standing
rule in my house. You want others to do for you? Well, then you
can't be beastly to them and still expect them to come through
for you.

Just as parents should not be beastly to their adult kids and expect them to
shut up and take it as pay back for their infancy.

Getting hauled to rehearsals and birthday parties and
friends' homes and whatnot are privileges. It's my job as
a parent--the job I chose--to get up at night with babies
and deal with all the ins and outs of parenting. It is also
my job to bring up civilized children who know how to get
along in the world, and the rest of the world is not going
to put up with selfish prima donnas.

I think this is fully different from parents putting guilt trips on their
adult children as a means of control.

As for the unappreciative adult child who never visits, helps out, calls
their poor aging parent who raised them to adulthood, I see a whole other
side. I do believe there are some selfish kids in this world, but on the
whole, if a parent is so wonderful to their kids, I can't see that they can
be anything but appreciative and wonderful back. The average poor neglected
parent may be wonderful to outsiders and gain their sympathies from stories
of the ungrateful child, but only the child and parent knows what's really
going on; and there is usually some dynamic going on that no one else sees.

"toypup" wrote in message
t...

"bizby40" wrote in message
...

I've been trying to think of a good way to articulate this for the
past day or do, so I appreciate you doing it for me. Some of the
posts up to this point seem to be taking the stance that the
parents owe everything to the kids, and the kids owe nothing to the
parents. My child owes me the same respect and consideration I give
to her. And sometimes that takes some reminding.

If you show your child respect and consideration, you deserve the
same in return. If you turn your children into basket cases after
every visit, you cannot rely on the repect and consideration you
gave thirty years ago to carry you through.

Sure. I wasn't referring to you, or to adult kids in general. It's
just that the topic up to this point had been one-sided. As the
parent of a child who all too often thinks she is "owed" whatever she
wants, it think it's important that she understands that those who
give are more likely to get. No one keeps a scorecard of course, but
in any relationship, even a parent-child one, if things get too
lopsided, then something has to change.

Bizby

toypup wrote:

As for the unappreciative adult child who never visits, helps out, calls
their poor aging parent who raised them to adulthood, I see a whole other
side. I do believe there are some selfish kids in this world, but on the
whole, if a parent is so wonderful to their kids, I can't see that they can
be anything but appreciative and wonderful back. The average poor neglected
parent may be wonderful to outsiders and gain their sympathies from stories
of the ungrateful child, but only the child and parent knows what's really
going on; and there is usually some dynamic going on that no one else sees.

I don't really think one can generalize. I've seen
adult kids who were very selfish, despite having parents who
were very giving and kind and I've seen adult kids who were
saints to their parents despite a history that would have
driven me off screaming. Neither kids nor parents always
get the response they've "earned," so I would hesitate to
judge based only on one side of the equation. And really,
I think at least as adults, we frequently choose to treat
people better than they've earned, simply because we feel
it's the right thing to do. I just think as *parents* we
have a responsibility to attempt to bring up children
who earn positive responses rather than getting through
life annoying everyone else and still expecting something
in return. You can set up some of those learning experiences
for your children in a way that you can't for adults.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
toypup wrote:

As for the unappreciative adult child who never visits, helps out, calls
their poor aging parent who raised them to adulthood, I see a whole other
side. I do believe there are some selfish kids in this world, but on the
whole, if a parent is so wonderful to their kids, I can't see that they
can be anything but appreciative and wonderful back. The average poor
neglected parent may be wonderful to outsiders and gain their sympathies
from stories of the ungrateful child, but only the child and parent knows
what's really going on; and there is usually some dynamic going on that
no one else sees.

I don't really think one can generalize. I've seen
adult kids who were very selfish, despite having parents who
were very giving and kind and I've seen adult kids who were
saints to their parents despite a history that would have
driven me off screaming.

I admit that there can be selfish adults. I just don't think that is the
case most of the time. I think there is a dynamic between the parent and
child which only they know. It's not one is evil versus the other. They
have a history which brings them to the point where they're at.

Neither kids nor parents always
get the response they've "earned," so I would hesitate to
judge based only on one side of the equation. And really,
I think at least as adults, we frequently choose to treat
people better than they've earned, simply because we feel
it's the right thing to do. I just think as *parents* we
have a responsibility to attempt to bring up children
who earn positive responses rather than getting through
life annoying everyone else and still expecting something
in return. You can set up some of those learning experiences
for your children in a way that you can't for adults.

I can't say I disagree with you.

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

I don't really think one can generalize. I've seen
adult kids who were very selfish, despite having parents who
were very giving and kind and I've seen adult kids who were
saints to their parents despite a history that would have
driven me off screaming. Neither kids nor parents always
get the response they've "earned," so I would hesitate to
judge based only on one side of the equation. And really,
I think at least as adults, we frequently choose to treat
people better than they've earned, simply because we feel
it's the right thing to do. I just think as *parents* we
have a responsibility to attempt to bring up children
who earn positive responses rather than getting through
life annoying everyone else and still expecting something
in return. You can set up some of those learning experiences
for your children in a way that you can't for adults.

Rather than go back and respond to a number of posts, I will
just say that I fully agree with Ericka's responses on this
subject. Her comments parallel what I was attempting to
convey, with a much clearer delivery
--
Ruth

GameBoy has become a rite of passage for all kids it seems. Boys and
girls. I was in a restaurant the other day and I saw two kids playing
on their GameBoys. Everything was fine until one of the parents took
them away since the food had arrived. The one child started kicking and
screaming for it. Now, that I will say is a bit too much. I would
permantently take the device away if my child did that. In many
respects I think they are a good source of entertainment for kids that
would normall be a boring setting for them. But the incident that I
witnessed makes me ask whether the game players should come out of the
house.


Scrapcat wrote:
My 7 year old daughter has been asking for Gameboy for Christmas. My
nephews, 10 yrs old and 7 yrs old, both have Gameboy and Nintendo DS,
but they are playing the game all the time. Even when the family is
together for holiday, birthday or even just a get-together. I guess
it really depends on the parents control of the kids!!?? Can anyone
share your thoughts on this?

wrote:
GameBoy has become a rite of passage for all kids it seems. Boys and
girls. I was in a restaurant the other day and I saw two kids playing
on their GameBoys. Everything was fine until one of the parents took
them away since the food had arrived. The one child started kicking and
screaming for it. Now, that I will say is a bit too much. I would
permantently take the device away if my child did that. In many
respects I think they are a good source of entertainment for kids that
would normall be a boring setting for them. But the incident that I
witnessed makes me ask whether the game players should come out of the
house.

Eh, if you follow that to its logical conclusion,
no kids should come out of the house because some throw
temper tantrums even without any toys along for the ride ;-)
I think it has to depend on your child, and you
have to be clear about expectations. You also have to
understand a little about the games. For instance,
in some of the games you can stop at any time and pick
it up later where you left off. In other games,
stopping right *now* means you lose your last hour
of work if you're not at a save point. If we're in
a situation where I expect them to stop on a dime
and put them away, I'll give them a warning a well
before they'll need to stop and tell them that if
they're playing a game where they need to save,
they'd better be working on saving now, because
in the next 15 minutes or so, they're going to be
expected to put the game away immediately when
we arrive/the food arrives/the guests arrive/they're
needed on stage/whatever. While nothing excuses
kicking and screaming over it, it is understandable
for a child to get upset if the game is unexpectedly
removed and they have to replay a whole level or
something like that. A little advance notice and
clear expectations will solve that problem.

Best wishes,
Ericka