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  #1  
Old November 15th 07, 03:42 AM posted to alt.child-support
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,278
Default deadbeat and enabler list (another thread that went off topic)


"Chris" wrote in message
...



No we're not. You're confused. He sends his half of the basic needs,
she
spends it on the child's basic needs. Her money that she earns that she

was
spending on his half of the basic needs before is now freed up for her to
put a bit away. Soo, not that hard to understand.


She can't have that "safety net" without receiving HIS money. Therefore,
it
is HIS money that is being "put away". Not hard at ALL to understand.


chuckle Perhaps you will feel better when your child support obligation
is finally paid off, Chris.


Savings for emergencies is "his money". Because, without some contribution from
the other parent, Sarah would be too strapped to put anything away.

One reason (besides all the various people and situations I know) I pay some
attention to CS issues is a coworker way back in my teens at a truck stop on
Colorado. She had a long term boyfriend, had a child, they split up. We were
waitresses. She had *nothing* for herself, and it showed. In her mid-twenties,
she wore no makeup, pulled long untrimmed hair back, and borrowed panty hose
from the rest of us for the waitress uniform (this was the '70s, required for
the uniform, the bare-leg look definately wasn't in.)

She finally got court-ordered CS after wage garnishment (back when it took a
long time to do that), and, gosh forbid, actually paid us back some panty hose,
bought makeup, and got her hair colored and trimmed for the first time in years.

That man stormed in screaming at her "BEEEAAAAYYYIIIIICCCCH! THAT's what you're
doing with MY MONEY!"

He got his ass kicked out by the manager and a couple of the cooks, but it sure
was a lesson. She quit and went elsewhere. But it was scary as hell.

"His" money. Yeah, she took 'his' money to not be impovershed anymore. If
there were a trustee like I've been suggesting, it'd be that she would be able
to save a weeks' tips and wait for the next paycheck to do that, maybe a few
days later than she did, and put 'his' money directly to the rent. Because she
no longer had to scratch to make up for - 'his money'.

I know most, by far, situations aren't like that. But time and time again, just
like here, I've seen that attitude in one way or another.

My officemate is a NCP with a new marriage and new little boy. He and another
divorced man were grousing about a winter coat he saw his ex wearing. "You KNOW
what money paid for that winter coat." Well, within a month the local paper
featured and article about a great performing arts camp - his two older boys
were pictured performing there. I know what camps cost. "His" money was going
to his two boys.

Winter coat my ass.

Banty

  #2  
Old November 15th 07, 04:28 AM posted to alt.child-support
Bob Whiteside
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default deadbeat and enabler list (another thread that went off topic)


"Banty" wrote in message
...

"His" money. Yeah, she took 'his' money to not be impovershed anymore.
If
there were a trustee like I've been suggesting, it'd be that she would be
able
to save a weeks' tips and wait for the next paycheck to do that, maybe a
few
days later than she did, and put 'his' money directly to the rent.
Because she
no longer had to scratch to make up for - 'his money'.

I know most, by far, situations aren't like that. But time and time
again, just
like here, I've seen that attitude in one way or another.


Although this comment is just as anecdotal as your comment, there are lots
of events that transpire which make fathers believe their CS money is being
misappropriated to cover the mother's personal expenses. A couple of
examples would be a mother who uses a lump sum CS payment after a CS
modification to fund her IRA. Or a mother who signs a state required
Uniform Expense Declaration under penalty of perjury showing expenditures at
a high-end retailer are 2/3 for the children. Or a mother who claims she
pays her live-in boyfriend as a gardener and home maintenance person.

  #3  
Old November 15th 07, 04:55 AM posted to alt.child-support
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,278
Default deadbeat and enabler list (another thread that went off topic)

In article , Bob Whiteside
says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...

"His" money. Yeah, she took 'his' money to not be impovershed anymore.
If
there were a trustee like I've been suggesting, it'd be that she would be
able
to save a weeks' tips and wait for the next paycheck to do that, maybe a
few
days later than she did, and put 'his' money directly to the rent.
Because she
no longer had to scratch to make up for - 'his money'.

I know most, by far, situations aren't like that. But time and time
again, just
like here, I've seen that attitude in one way or another.


Although this comment is just as anecdotal as your comment, there are lots
of events that transpire which make fathers believe their CS money is being
misappropriated to cover the mother's personal expenses. A couple of
examples would be a mother who uses a lump sum CS payment after a CS
modification to fund her IRA. Or a mother who signs a state required
Uniform Expense Declaration under penalty of perjury showing expenditures at
a high-end retailer are 2/3 for the children. Or a mother who claims she
pays her live-in boyfriend as a gardener and home maintenance person.


Oh I have no doubt that, being as some people just fraud wherever they can,
this would be one of the ways. CP, or NCP, male or female. This crap from the
CP; an NCP working off the books (and that's *common*).

It's just this attitude that, if the custodial parent, anytime anywhere, shows
up looking better than hum drum, or doing anything more expensive than a day at
the park by him or herself or with adult friends, "that was 'MY MONEY' paying
for that".

Banty

  #4  
Old November 15th 07, 05:09 AM posted to alt.child-support
teachrmama
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,905
Default deadbeat and enabler list (another thread that went off topic)


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob Whiteside
says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...

"His" money. Yeah, she took 'his' money to not be impovershed anymore.
If
there were a trustee like I've been suggesting, it'd be that she would
be
able
to save a weeks' tips and wait for the next paycheck to do that, maybe a
few
days later than she did, and put 'his' money directly to the rent.
Because she
no longer had to scratch to make up for - 'his money'.

I know most, by far, situations aren't like that. But time and time
again, just
like here, I've seen that attitude in one way or another.


Although this comment is just as anecdotal as your comment, there are lots
of events that transpire which make fathers believe their CS money is
being
misappropriated to cover the mother's personal expenses. A couple of
examples would be a mother who uses a lump sum CS payment after a CS
modification to fund her IRA. Or a mother who signs a state required
Uniform Expense Declaration under penalty of perjury showing expenditures
at
a high-end retailer are 2/3 for the children. Or a mother who claims she
pays her live-in boyfriend as a gardener and home maintenance person.


Oh I have no doubt that, being as some people just fraud wherever they
can,
this would be one of the ways. CP, or NCP, male or female. This crap
from the
CP; an NCP working off the books (and that's *common*).

It's just this attitude that, if the custodial parent, anytime anywhere,
shows
up looking better than hum drum, or doing anything more expensive than a
day at
the park by him or herself or with adult friends, "that was 'MY MONEY'
paying
for that".


And that is a sad attitude. As is the "how did you get a new car? You must
not be paying enough child support" accusation. (I've hear that opne a
number of times)


  #5  
Old November 15th 07, 06:05 AM posted to alt.child-support
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,278
Default deadbeat and enabler list (another thread that went off topic)

In article , teachrmama says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob Whiteside
says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...

"His" money. Yeah, she took 'his' money to not be impovershed anymore.
If
there were a trustee like I've been suggesting, it'd be that she would
be
able
to save a weeks' tips and wait for the next paycheck to do that, maybe a
few
days later than she did, and put 'his' money directly to the rent.
Because she
no longer had to scratch to make up for - 'his money'.

I know most, by far, situations aren't like that. But time and time
again, just
like here, I've seen that attitude in one way or another.

Although this comment is just as anecdotal as your comment, there are lots
of events that transpire which make fathers believe their CS money is
being
misappropriated to cover the mother's personal expenses. A couple of
examples would be a mother who uses a lump sum CS payment after a CS
modification to fund her IRA. Or a mother who signs a state required
Uniform Expense Declaration under penalty of perjury showing expenditures
at
a high-end retailer are 2/3 for the children. Or a mother who claims she
pays her live-in boyfriend as a gardener and home maintenance person.


Oh I have no doubt that, being as some people just fraud wherever they
can,
this would be one of the ways. CP, or NCP, male or female. This crap
from the
CP; an NCP working off the books (and that's *common*).

It's just this attitude that, if the custodial parent, anytime anywhere,
shows
up looking better than hum drum, or doing anything more expensive than a
day at
the park by him or herself or with adult friends, "that was 'MY MONEY'
paying
for that".


And that is a sad attitude. As is the "how did you get a new car? You must
not be paying enough child support" accusation. (I've hear that opne a
number of times)


I'm sure it can be turned around like that.

Heck, it doesnt' even have to have anything to do with CS. My sister wanted me
to lend her money (bad idea), saying I can "afford it if you went to England
this year".

Well, yeah...we saved for three years.. and it's gone, all spent on plane
tickets and stuff, y'know.

:-/

Jealousy. Envy. Not good things. Really common, especially in divorce
situations.

Banty

  #6  
Old November 15th 07, 06:40 AM posted to alt.child-support
teachrmama
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,905
Default deadbeat and enabler list (another thread that went off topic)


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , teachrmama says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob
Whiteside
says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...

"His" money. Yeah, she took 'his' money to not be impovershed
anymore.
If
there were a trustee like I've been suggesting, it'd be that she would
be
able
to save a weeks' tips and wait for the next paycheck to do that, maybe
a
few
days later than she did, and put 'his' money directly to the rent.
Because she
no longer had to scratch to make up for - 'his money'.

I know most, by far, situations aren't like that. But time and time
again, just
like here, I've seen that attitude in one way or another.

Although this comment is just as anecdotal as your comment, there are
lots
of events that transpire which make fathers believe their CS money is
being
misappropriated to cover the mother's personal expenses. A couple of
examples would be a mother who uses a lump sum CS payment after a CS
modification to fund her IRA. Or a mother who signs a state required
Uniform Expense Declaration under penalty of perjury showing
expenditures
at
a high-end retailer are 2/3 for the children. Or a mother who claims
she
pays her live-in boyfriend as a gardener and home maintenance person.


Oh I have no doubt that, being as some people just fraud wherever they
can,
this would be one of the ways. CP, or NCP, male or female. This crap
from the
CP; an NCP working off the books (and that's *common*).

It's just this attitude that, if the custodial parent, anytime anywhere,
shows
up looking better than hum drum, or doing anything more expensive than a
day at
the park by him or herself or with adult friends, "that was 'MY MONEY'
paying
for that".


And that is a sad attitude. As is the "how did you get a new car? You
must
not be paying enough child support" accusation. (I've hear that opne a
number of times)


I'm sure it can be turned around like that.

Heck, it doesnt' even have to have anything to do with CS. My sister
wanted me
to lend her money (bad idea), saying I can "afford it if you went to
England
this year".

Well, yeah...we saved for three years.. and it's gone, all spent on plane
tickets and stuff, y'know.

:-/

Jealousy. Envy. Not good things. Really common, especially in divorce
situations.


Unfortunately, people tend to compare what they *don't* have with what the
other one *does* have. And children are all too often usedas weapons and/or
excuses. I had a little girl in my kindergarten class a few years ago whose
parents were divorced. Mom had remarried and had a new baby. Child lived
with mon and stepdad. Both worked full time. Bio dad had been laid off
when a major industry in town shut down. He had to give up his apartment
and move back in with his parents. He trook day jobs whenever he coud find
them, but could find nothing permanent. He came to all the school events,
but was treated like a fifth wheel by mom and step-dad. (He always looked
so sad) The mom told me one day in spring that the child would be off for a
week because they were going on vacation.--the child excitedly said they
were going to Disneyland. When she came back a week later, I asked her how
Disneyland was. She sadly told me that they didn't get to go to Disneyland
"because my daddy doesn't pay enough child support." Even if dad were
living high on the hog, why would you tell an innocent little child such a
thing? But this man was impoverished, doing the best he could, and was
obviously treated as second class by the new little family--that had 2
working adults supporting 2 children. Is THAT what child support is
supposed to be for? If mom lost her job, wanna bet she would be in court
demanding more from dad?


  #7  
Old November 15th 07, 07:04 AM posted to alt.child-support
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,278
Default deadbeat and enabler list (another thread that went off topic)

In article , teachrmama says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , teachrmama says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob
Whiteside
says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...

"His" money. Yeah, she took 'his' money to not be impovershed
anymore.
If
there were a trustee like I've been suggesting, it'd be that she would
be
able
to save a weeks' tips and wait for the next paycheck to do that, maybe
a
few
days later than she did, and put 'his' money directly to the rent.
Because she
no longer had to scratch to make up for - 'his money'.

I know most, by far, situations aren't like that. But time and time
again, just
like here, I've seen that attitude in one way or another.

Although this comment is just as anecdotal as your comment, there are
lots
of events that transpire which make fathers believe their CS money is
being
misappropriated to cover the mother's personal expenses. A couple of
examples would be a mother who uses a lump sum CS payment after a CS
modification to fund her IRA. Or a mother who signs a state required
Uniform Expense Declaration under penalty of perjury showing
expenditures
at
a high-end retailer are 2/3 for the children. Or a mother who claims
she
pays her live-in boyfriend as a gardener and home maintenance person.


Oh I have no doubt that, being as some people just fraud wherever they
can,
this would be one of the ways. CP, or NCP, male or female. This crap
from the
CP; an NCP working off the books (and that's *common*).

It's just this attitude that, if the custodial parent, anytime anywhere,
shows
up looking better than hum drum, or doing anything more expensive than a
day at
the park by him or herself or with adult friends, "that was 'MY MONEY'
paying
for that".

And that is a sad attitude. As is the "how did you get a new car? You
must
not be paying enough child support" accusation. (I've hear that opne a
number of times)


I'm sure it can be turned around like that.

Heck, it doesnt' even have to have anything to do with CS. My sister
wanted me
to lend her money (bad idea), saying I can "afford it if you went to
England
this year".

Well, yeah...we saved for three years.. and it's gone, all spent on plane
tickets and stuff, y'know.

:-/

Jealousy. Envy. Not good things. Really common, especially in divorce
situations.


Unfortunately, people tend to compare what they *don't* have with what the
other one *does* have.


It's worse than that - they compare waht they don't have with what they *think*
the other one has. Like that wellspring of funds I musta pulled the London
travel money from.

And children are all too often usedas weapons and/or
excuses. I had a little girl in my kindergarten class a few years ago whose
parents were divorced. Mom had remarried and had a new baby. Child lived
with mon and stepdad. Both worked full time. Bio dad had been laid off
when a major industry in town shut down. He had to give up his apartment
and move back in with his parents. He trook day jobs whenever he coud find
them, but could find nothing permanent. He came to all the school events,
but was treated like a fifth wheel by mom and step-dad. (He always looked
so sad) The mom told me one day in spring that the child would be off for a
week because they were going on vacation.--the child excitedly said they
were going to Disneyland. When she came back a week later, I asked her how
Disneyland was. She sadly told me that they didn't get to go to Disneyland
"because my daddy doesn't pay enough child support." Even if dad were
living high on the hog, why would you tell an innocent little child such a
thing? But this man was impoverished, doing the best he could, and was
obviously treated as second class by the new little family--that had 2
working adults supporting 2 children. Is THAT what child support is
supposed to be for? If mom lost her job, wanna bet she would be in court
demanding more from dad?



There's no way to know the real reason for the cancelled Disney trip (it all
comes down to priorities) but they *never* should have brought CS up AT ALL to
their kid about that. Consider though at that age if she isnt' getting things
mixed up.

About the fifth-wheel stuff - it happens, but not that often, that ex's can be
very comfortable with each other at something like a school event. Usually
they're off standing off from each other. You might be expecting too much
there.

Bnaty

  #8  
Old November 15th 07, 07:45 AM posted to alt.child-support
teachrmama
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,905
Default deadbeat and enabler list (another thread that went off topic)


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , teachrmama says...

snip for length

Well, yeah...we saved for three years.. and it's gone, all spent on
plane
tickets and stuff, y'know.

:-/

Jealousy. Envy. Not good things. Really common, especially in divorce
situations.


Unfortunately, people tend to compare what they *don't* have with what the
other one *does* have.


It's worse than that - they compare waht they don't have with what they
*think*
the other one has. Like that wellspring of funds I musta pulled the
London
travel money from.

And children are all too often usedas weapons and/or
excuses. I had a little girl in my kindergarten class a few years ago
whose
parents were divorced. Mom had remarried and had a new baby. Child lived
with mon and stepdad. Both worked full time. Bio dad had been laid off
when a major industry in town shut down. He had to give up his apartment
and move back in with his parents. He trook day jobs whenever he coud
find
them, but could find nothing permanent. He came to all the school events,
but was treated like a fifth wheel by mom and step-dad. (He always looked
so sad) The mom told me one day in spring that the child would be off for
a
week because they were going on vacation.--the child excitedly said they
were going to Disneyland. When she came back a week later, I asked her
how
Disneyland was. She sadly told me that they didn't get to go to
Disneyland
"because my daddy doesn't pay enough child support." Even if dad were
living high on the hog, why would you tell an innocent little child such a
thing? But this man was impoverished, doing the best he could, and was
obviously treated as second class by the new little family--that had 2
working adults supporting 2 children. Is THAT what child support is
supposed to be for? If mom lost her job, wanna bet she would be in court
demanding more from dad?



There's no way to know the real reason for the cancelled Disney trip (it
all
comes down to priorities)


No, that was the reason--mom told me later.

but they *never* should have brought CS up AT ALL to
their kid about that. Consider though at that age if she isnt' getting
things
mixed up.

About the fifth-wheel stuff - it happens, but not that often, that ex's
can be
very comfortable with each other at something like a school event. Usually
they're off standing off from each other. You might be expecting too much
there.


Well, you had to be there, I think. I have seen parents uncomfortable with
each other, but this was different.



  #9  
Old November 15th 07, 07:53 AM posted to alt.child-support
Sarah Gray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 251
Default deadbeat and enabler list (another thread that went off topic)

teachrmama wrote:
"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , teachrmama says...

snip for length
Well, yeah...we saved for three years.. and it's gone, all spent on
plane
tickets and stuff, y'know.

:-/

Jealousy. Envy. Not good things. Really common, especially in divorce
situations.
Unfortunately, people tend to compare what they *don't* have with what the
other one *does* have.

It's worse than that - they compare waht they don't have with what they
*think*
the other one has. Like that wellspring of funds I musta pulled the
London
travel money from.

And children are all too often usedas weapons and/or
excuses. I had a little girl in my kindergarten class a few years ago
whose
parents were divorced. Mom had remarried and had a new baby. Child lived
with mon and stepdad. Both worked full time. Bio dad had been laid off
when a major industry in town shut down. He had to give up his apartment
and move back in with his parents. He trook day jobs whenever he coud
find
them, but could find nothing permanent. He came to all the school events,
but was treated like a fifth wheel by mom and step-dad. (He always looked
so sad) The mom told me one day in spring that the child would be off for
a
week because they were going on vacation.--the child excitedly said they
were going to Disneyland. When she came back a week later, I asked her
how
Disneyland was. She sadly told me that they didn't get to go to
Disneyland
"because my daddy doesn't pay enough child support." Even if dad were
living high on the hog, why would you tell an innocent little child such a
thing? But this man was impoverished, doing the best he could, and was
obviously treated as second class by the new little family--that had 2
working adults supporting 2 children. Is THAT what child support is
supposed to be for? If mom lost her job, wanna bet she would be in court
demanding more from dad?


There's no way to know the real reason for the cancelled Disney trip (it
all
comes down to priorities)


No, that was the reason--mom told me later.

but they *never* should have brought CS up AT ALL to
their kid about that. Consider though at that age if she isnt' getting
things
mixed up.

About the fifth-wheel stuff - it happens, but not that often, that ex's
can be
very comfortable with each other at something like a school event. Usually
they're off standing off from each other. You might be expecting too much
there.


Well, you had to be there, I think. I have seen parents uncomfortable with
each other, but this was different.




That is preposterous! Child support should not be enforced so that a
child can go to Disneyland. When I was a child, I never went to
Disneyland. I managed to not be too scarred by that.

--

Sarah Gray
  #10  
Old November 15th 07, 08:08 AM posted to alt.child-support
Bob Whiteside
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default deadbeat and enabler list (another thread that went off topic)


"Banty" wrote in message
...

There's no way to know the real reason for the cancelled Disney trip (it
all
comes down to priorities) but they *never* should have brought CS up AT
ALL to
their kid about that. Consider though at that age if she isnt' getting
things
mixed up.


This whole argument is driven by gender feminist BS. If dads can afford to
take their children to Disneyland they are are called "Disneyland Dads" who
have discretionary money available to spend and give their children a false
sense of reality. But if children are told they can't go to Disneyland
because their dads don't pay CS it is the dad's fault and their Disneyland
experience is altered by their dads providing money. This is just total
sexist crap!

 




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