The millenial generation

Random thoughts.

Martin

toto wrote:

I was looking for information on SAT scores and college
grade inflation and found this article which I think is a
very interesting analysis of the current high school students.

http://www.collegeboundnews.com/01-02issues/nov01.html

The Millennial Generation
IS THE COMING GENERATION of college students different
from those of the past? You bet, according to NACAC'S 2001
keynote speakers, Neil Howe and William Strauss, co-authors
of Millennials Rising: The Next Great Generation
(Vintage Books).

According to Howe and Strauss, every generation surprises us
with new attitudes and characteristics. But these authors
contend that the "Millennial Generation" exhibits several core
traits that differentiate it from its predecessors.

I think that it would be more surprising if there wasn't a big
difference. One thing I wonder about is, is this report's data
limited to just the US or does it speak of a worldwide trend?

NEW GENERATIONAL TRAITS

The Millennial Generation, Howe and Strauss argue, is not
only larger than its immediate predecessors, its members
are smarter, more optimistic and more group oriented.

Does "smarter" = "educated" or "skilled"?

In the
next few years, Howe and Strauss predict, these traits will
lead to the toughest competition for college admission in
United States history.

Should we build more colleges? And even if we did, are there
going to be employment available for all of these people with
college degrees? Enough so to justify the financial burden many
of them are going to take on to get a degree? Is this mass of
college students going to get as quality of an post-secondary
education on par with what previous generations got?

The first birth year for "Millennials" was 1982, which made
it the first high school class of 2000. "This generation has
the largest percentage of racial and ethnic diversity of any
generation in American history," the authors said.
"According to new census data, 35 percent of the
Millennial Generation, age 19 and under, is either
Latino or non-white."

Will a group as diverse as that settle for a traditional
education? Or will it want something new and different?

A Special Generation. The authors contend that this
new generation sees itself as special, in part, because
its members have been treated special all their lives.
However, events such as the Columbine tragedy have
led many in the media to portray the generation
negatively.

"Different" is usually thought of in a negative way at times.

"Many predicted this generation would be more culturally
cynical,

If so, who's fault is that?

more economically independent,

Based on what funds? Their parents? Are they going to be able to
be self-supporting in their adult life?

more risk
prone with sex and drugs and crime, that they would be
more pessimistic about their future when it comes to the
economy and so forth.

Will reality match their perceptions?

One trait that seems to have been left off (IMO), and that one
is that this members of this generation are big consumers of
services and temporary products.

"These were misleading characterizations extrapolated
from Generation X," the authors said. "Just the reverse
has happened. In the late 1990s, we began to get some
behavioral data about this new generation. In one sphere
after another we see all of these predictions totally
contradicted.

Ok...., so what are the correct characteristics?

"Take violence," the authors said. "Crime in this group is
down roughly two-thirds.

Is this true? or has this group focused on areas that simply
don't register as data yet? For example, bootlegging music,
software, movies off the internet is not legal - but there
hasn't been a way to measure it or do much about it.

Last year was the lowest teen
birth rate since the end of World War II.

Is that due to the teens themselves or the programs aimed at
facilitating a decrease in teen pregnancy? Has birth control
become more accepted and available? Or has the advent of
internet porn redirected this group's male demographic in other
areas? There was a news program on last night that focused on an
increasing number of males becoming addicted to internet porn -
to the point of totally withdrawing from real social contact.

The abortion
statistics for this age group are the lowest since Roe v.
Wade. The incidence of tobacco and cigarette use among
this group is the lowest since statistics have been kept,"
the authors said.

Again, can this be due to outside agencies?

A Confident Generation. "Nine out of 10 teens in the
Millennial Generation say they are happy and excited
about their future. In fact, teens are the only age bracket
that has gotten happier throughout the 1990s. Some 82
percent expect to be more financially successful than
their parents; it's higher for minority teens."

Why shouldn't they be happy?

A Sheltered Generation. "In the early 1980s, there was
a child safety movement," the authors note. "Child
helmets, urban curfews, the V-chip, longer school years,
graduated drivers licenses, laws targeting deadbeat
dads, childproof homes," the list goes on and on for
measures to protect this generation of kids. "After the
events at Columbine, these kids expect security, from
metal detectors to searches of backpacks and swat
teams walking through their schools. These kids
expect supervision. They think the rules are strict and
fair."

Is this going to carry over into their adulthood? Are the events
of 9/11 going to make them expect / accept a more restrictive
society? Might that be taken advantage of, and if so how will
they react to that?

A Team-Oriented Generation. "These kids have been
taught to cooperate and collaborate and spend more
time together a much greater percent of the day than
their parents ever did," the authors said. "There is a
new positive peer influence now. The four top work
skills they seek: getting along well with others, working
well with part of the team, relating well with people of
other races and being able to use a computer * basically,
team, team, team, technology."

Will this make for a lack of great individuals or leaders? Will
being in a team create more or better things than a single
individual could? Or will it simply reduce the amount of work
expected from them individually? Is the economy going to develop
in a way so as to make team effort a necessity? For example,
will there be two-three teachers per class where there is now
just one?

A Conventional Generation. "The New York Times calls
this generation 'neo-traditional' to describe its new
emphasis on values and character," said the authors.

Who's values and what character?

"Some 94 percent say they trust their parents; 80 percent
have really important talks with them. Most teens say they
share their parents values."

That's not surprising. I would image that most kids grow up to
be just like their parents, or at least think that they have.
Maturity and assuming adult responsibilities tend to shape an
individual's choices in a pretty defined way - IMO.

An Achieving Generation. "We saw the Goals 2000
movement raise academic standards for this generation.
SAT scores are up.

Wasn't there a change in the SAT? Can you still compare today's
scores with those from years ago?

The group not yet in college will have
an even better reputation for being academic achievers.

Is this true of all members of the group or just the ones that
stayed in school?

There is a huge increase in the amount of homework
being assigned at the lower grades. It's time for our
society to realize these are the smartest kids ever."

Again, does "smartest" = "highly educated" or "skilled". Has the
average IQ really jumped that much over the years? What data is
the basis for this? State standardized tests?

A Pressured Generation. "This generation is college-
bound. But these kids don't want the kind of pressures
they see affecting their parents who are workaholics
and often have non-traditional work arrangements.
Most of these students want a permanent, five-days-
a-week position."

Will jobs like that be available for them (and their team
members) when needed? There is probably a good reason that many
of their parents are workaholics and have non-traditional work
arrangements.

There is lots of information about how this might affect
the college admissions process and what counsellors
need to do, but I find some reason for hope in this
description as well as some reasons to fear that too
much freedom is being given up for the security that
kids seek.

Well that blows it - our few counselors are too busy making
schedule changes to do anything for students on an individual
basis.

Martin

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

"toto" wrote in message
...
It is surprising for that age group. Many kids in my generation
didn't talk to their parents much. Many of them didn't share
their parents values at all. Of course, we were the rebels of
the 60s. Assuming adult responsibilities does change that
to an extent, but it doesn't happen during the high school years
usually.

Could it be that your representation of being 1960s rebels could be
construed by others as being spoiled trophy brats by overly permissive
parents?

Gary

toto wrote:

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 03:07:48 GMT, Rowley
wrote:

A Confident Generation. "Nine out of 10 teens in the
Millennial Generation say they are happy and excited
about their future. In fact, teens are the only age bracket
that has gotten happier throughout the 1990s. Some 82
percent expect to be more financially successful than
their parents; it's higher for minority teens."

Why shouldn't they be happy?

Were you happy as a teenager? While not all teens go
through a lot of angst, there is quite a percentage who
did when I was growing up. Certainly 90% of teens were
not happy and excited about their future in the late 60s.

Keep in mind those unhappy teens of the 60's are the parents of
the group that the article talks about.

Is what made the 60's teens unhappy comparable to what might
have made their children's teen years unhappy?

Martin

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

toto wrote:

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 03:07:48 GMT, Rowley
wrote:

"Some 94 percent say they trust their parents; 80 percent
have really important talks with them. Most teens say they
share their parents values."

That's not surprising. I would image that most kids grow up to
be just like their parents, or at least think that they have.
Maturity and assuming adult responsibilities tend to shape an
individual's choices in a pretty defined way - IMO.

It is surprising for that age group. Many kids in my generation
didn't talk to their parents much.

Do you (they) talk with them now? I'm guessing that kids simply
don't have that much in common with their parents and don't tend
to communicate well until they get older and do.

Many of them didn't share
their parents values at all. Of course, we were the rebels of
the 60s.

Looking back at your parent's values - how like / different are
yours today now that you are a adult? How many of the kids who
were rebels in the 60's are still rebels today forty years
later? How many of those former rebel kids now have kids who are
in their late teens or 20's?

I know some former late 60's / early 70's "rebels" (I graduated
hs in 78) and most of them are/were stricter with their kids
than their parents were on them.

Assuming adult responsibilities does change that
to an extent, but it doesn't happen during the high school years
usually.

Is what happens to a person in high school really that defining
an experience?

Martin

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

toto wrote:

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 03:07:48 GMT, Rowley
wrote:

According to Howe and Strauss, every generation surprises us
with new attitudes and characteristics. But these authors
contend that the "Millennial Generation" exhibits several core
traits that differentiate it from its predecessors.

I think that it would be more surprising if there wasn't a big
difference. One thing I wonder about is, is this report's data
limited to just the US or does it speak of a worldwide trend?

My suspicion given the source is that this is limited to the US
in terms of the data analyzed.

I believe that it is further limited to just those kids who
remain in the "system" and who haven't dropped out. There was a
news program on here the other night, one that was looking into
the "success" of the Houston public school system. One of the
things they were questioning is the data that showed huge 9th
grade classes with a high percent of ethnic students and much
smaller graduating classes with a smaller percent of ethnic
population. They wanted to know were exactly did these students
who didn't make it to the 12th grade go and why there wasn't any
good data showing this.

Martin

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

Rowley wrote:
toto wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 03:07:48 GMT, Rowley
wrote:
"Some 94 percent say they trust their parents; 80 percent
have really important talks with them. Most teens say they
share their parents values."

That's not surprising. I would image that most kids grow up to
be just like their parents, or at least think that they have.
Maturity and assuming adult responsibilities tend to shape an
individual's choices in a pretty defined way - IMO.

It is surprising for that age group. Many kids in my generation
didn't talk to their parents much.

Do you (they) talk with them now? I'm guessing that kids simply
don't have that much in common with their parents and don't tend
to communicate well until they get older and do.

I think that the characterization of this generation toto posted is
that they seem to violate this description (though my kids don't much
talk to me).

The hallmark of the current generation seems to be AIM and the cell
phone. Kids are literally constantly in touch with each other in a
way that kids of my generation couldn't be.

Assuming adult responsibilities does change that
to an extent, but it doesn't happen during the high school years
usually.

Is what happens to a person in high school really that defining
an experience?

High school and college combined largely defined my personality, moral
outlook, etc. There was evolution thereafter, but it was evolution
from a relatively well-defined starting point.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

toto wrote:

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:28:51 GMT, Rowley
wrote:

toto wrote:

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 03:07:48 GMT, Rowley
wrote:

"Some 94 percent say they trust their parents; 80 percent
have really important talks with them. Most teens say they
share their parents values."

That's not surprising. I would image that most kids grow up to
be just like their parents, or at least think that they have.
Maturity and assuming adult responsibilities tend to shape an
individual's choices in a pretty defined way - IMO.

It is surprising for that age group. Many kids in my generation
didn't talk to their parents much.

Do you (they) talk with them now? I'm guessing that kids simply
don't have that much in common with their parents and don't tend
to communicate well until they get older and do.

Many of them didn't share
their parents values at all. Of course, we were the rebels of
the 60s.

Looking back at your parent's values - how like / different are
yours today now that you are a adult?

Mine are very different. I am more tolerant of differences
among people and I don't stereotype people by race
and religion.

Also I am an atheist. My parents were practicing Catholics.

I'm a bit older than Dorothy as I was a rebel of the 50s (or one of
the Beat Generation). I am also quite a bit less likely to stereotype
people by race and religion than my parents were, and while I'm not an
atheist, I'm less of a church goer than my mom was and is. I think
I've gotten more liberal in political outlook than my parents which is
the reverse of what usually happens if you think of older people as
being more conservative. Although my mom hates Dubya.

DH says that all one has to do it tell me I have to do something for
me to refuse to do it. I'm not quite that bad I don't think, but I do
tend to push the envelope still, and my children are mostly like me.

snip

How many of those former rebel kids now have kids who are
in their late teens or 20's?

Again, I have no way to know about that. My own kids are
in there 30s not their 20s. Still many of my generation had
children later in life, so probably there are quite a few.

I have two grandchildren in their 20s. (my children range from 33 to
43). The older grandchild (who would be older than the Millenial
Generation according to the original article) was quite independent
and dropped out of school because he said it was too much work, and
has re-entered the educational system.

Their mom wasn't particularly a rebel though, although she has
definite opinions and can hold her position quite well. She married a
Catholic, and has never converted although he is quite observant.

I know some former late 60's / early 70's "rebels" (I graduated
hs in 78) and most of them are/were stricter with their kids
than their parents were on them.

Interesting. I suppose it would depend on the parents.
I was much less strict with my kids than my parents were.
I don't think my parents did a bad job, btw. They were
non-spankers for the most part and I continued that.

My parents spanked and were pretty strict. I did not (as a general
rule) and my kids are non-spankers, but I think my kids are fairly
strict parents with one or two exceptions.

Assuming adult responsibilities does change that
to an extent, but it doesn't happen during the high school years
usually.

Is what happens to a person in high school really that defining
an experience?

Each generation has a defining experience and yes, it seems
to occur in their teenage years or college years. It's when you
are on the cusp of becoming an adult that the things that form
you happen.


grandma Rosalie

Bob LeChevalier wrote:

Rowley wrote:
toto wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 03:07:48 GMT, Rowley
wrote:
"Some 94 percent say they trust their parents; 80 percent
have really important talks with them. Most teens say they
share their parents values."

That's not surprising. I would image that most kids grow up to
be just like their parents, or at least think that they have.
Maturity and assuming adult responsibilities tend to shape an
individual's choices in a pretty defined way - IMO.

It is surprising for that age group. Many kids in my generation
didn't talk to their parents much.

Do you (they) talk with them now? I'm guessing that kids simply
don't have that much in common with their parents and don't tend
to communicate well until they get older and do.

I think that the characterization of this generation toto posted is
that they seem to violate this description (though my kids don't much
talk to me).

I see that as being a problem - even trying to characterize a
generation of people.

The hallmark of the current generation seems to be AIM and the cell
phone.

I'm seeing a growing number of cases of that, with the kids I
have in class now - but can we say that is the case of the
majority of them? I'm still seeing a sizable group that doesn't
have a cell phone or online access at home.

Kids are literally constantly in touch with each other in a
way that kids of my generation couldn't be.

What's the driving force for them doing this? Is there a real
need for this social contact or do they just like having/using
the technology? I seem to remember girls being stereotyped as
always on the phone even in the days of rotary dials.

Assuming adult responsibilities does change that
to an extent, but it doesn't happen during the high school years
usually.

Is what happens to a person in high school really that defining
an experience?

High school and college combined largely defined my personality, moral
outlook, etc. There was evolution thereafter, but it was evolution
from a relatively well-defined starting point.

If you add in college, then I agree that there is such an
experience - but I don't see hs alone as being much of one by
itself. I think that a person's first major job can be such an
experience in place of college.

Martin

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

toto wrote:

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:28:51 GMT, Rowley
wrote:

toto wrote:

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 03:07:48 GMT, Rowley
wrote:

"Some 94 percent say they trust their parents; 80 percent
have really important talks with them. Most teens say they
share their parents values."

That's not surprising. I would image that most kids grow up to
be just like their parents, or at least think that they have.
Maturity and assuming adult responsibilities tend to shape an
individual's choices in a pretty defined way - IMO.

It is surprising for that age group. Many kids in my generation
didn't talk to their parents much.

Do you (they) talk with them now? I'm guessing that kids simply
don't have that much in common with their parents and don't tend
to communicate well until they get older and do.

Many of them didn't share
their parents values at all. Of course, we were the rebels of
the 60s.

Looking back at your parent's values - how like / different are
yours today now that you are a adult?

Mine are very different. I am more tolerant of differences
among people and I don't stereotype people by race
and religion.

Also I am an atheist. My parents were practicing Catholics.

How many of the kids who were rebels in the 60's are
still rebels today forty years later?

Probably not many, but that isn't the point.

Well, it was one of the points I was trying to make. That people
tend to change as they get older and more mature and have
broader responsibility thrust upon them.

How many of those former rebel kids now have kids who are
in their late teens or 20's?

Again, I have no way to know about that.

The article mentioned it was talking about kids who were born
sometime around 1982 and since. I was born in 1960, and
graduated high school in 1972, and college in 1982. So it would
have been very possible that I could have been the father of one
of these children.

My own kids are
in there 30s not their 20s. Still many of my generation had
children later in life, so probably there are quite a few.

My older brother has two under the age of 21 - so does my
younger sister.

I know some former late 60's / early 70's "rebels" (I graduated
hs in 78) and most of them are/were stricter with their kids
than their parents were on them.

Interesting. I suppose it would depend on the parents.
I was much less strict with my kids than my parents were.
I don't think my parents did a bad job, btw. They were
non-spankers for the most part and I continued that.

So you do share a few of your parent's values. Do your grown
kids share any of yours?

Assuming adult responsibilities does change that
to an extent, but it doesn't happen during the high school years
usually.

Is what happens to a person in high school really that defining
an experience?

Each generation has a defining experience and yes, it seems
to occur in their teenage years or college years. It's when you
are on the cusp of becoming an adult that the things that form
you happen.

I'm guessing that the exact period of time differs for each
individual.

Martin

Martin


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

The article mentioned it was talking about kids who were born
sometime around 1982 and since. I was born in 1960, and
graduated high school in 1972, and college in 1982. So it would
have been very possible that I could have been the father of one
of these children.

Correction - I meant to say that I graduated hs in 1978.

Martin