If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#122
|
|||
|
|||
Bad news for liars, good news for kids
Debbee wrote:
On Jan 14, 4:45 am, Mark Probert wrote: Paul: The medico-drug cartel was summed up by J.W. Hodge, M.D., Probert This guy is, by definition, an anti-vac liar sociopath. Here's a question or two regarding this subject.. I'm taking it you work for a claims investigation service based on what you have said; what difference would it be to you or your company if an insurance company pays a claim for as you say, a "fringe," treatment or not?? We do not deal with that type of claim. However, for me personally, it makes a difference since the claim adds to my cost of insurance. Since the "treatment" is never going to improve the condition, it becomes a perpetual money waster which makes me pay more. I guess what I don't understand about the insurance world works. If I understand correctly, don't most alternative therapies cost much less than conventional treatments?? In the long run, possibly no. As for some of the real fringe treatments, e.g. Hulda's, the Geier's, etc, they are far more costly since they do nothing. Would it not be cheaper for an insurance company to pay on a cheaper form of medical treatment then have an insured spend buko bucks in the conventional medicine world which costs the insurance world more money? When no end is possible, it is a waste of money. I have always assumed insurance companies were in business to make a profit---just like everyone else!! |
#123
|
|||
|
|||
Bad news for liars, good news for kids
Debbee wrote:
On Jan 13, 8:24 pm, Mark Probert wrote: Still some of my worst nightmares. I thought I was your only nightmare!! Walk into a Vietnamese village for a MedCAP and smell rotting bodies and those dying of plague. |
#124
|
|||
|
|||
Bad news for liars, good news for kids
On Jan 14, 1:58 pm, Debbee wrote:
Mark L, I have a hypothetical situation for you: If I remember correctly, you work for some kind of Medical group. Say you have a child that comes to see you with his parents because they want a 3rd opinion -- ---the chances for survival of the child are slim with the other two proposed therapies. The parents tell you that they have heard about a therapy that as Probert likes to call it, that is "fringe" that there have been some limited studies done about--say in Denmark and in Germany, but nothing stateside, but there is a strong possibility that these large doses of Vitamin supplement IVS might work for the child. As a doctor, what do you do in a case like this? You already know the odds of the chance for survival for the other two methods. The parents have handed over to you the studies from that they pulled out of peer reviewed journals. Based on the information you know about the other two treatments, then seeing this rather limited alternative medicine study information from Europe with good results, what would you recommend? Would you abandon the conventional treatment way of thinking to recommend trying the alternative medicine therapy, or would you stand by it all of the way because you work for a Medical group and your colleagues would not favor your decision? Firstly, I take umbrage at your thinly veiled sneer that I make decisions based on how some "group" thinks I should. I have been blessed with a working brain, and I use it on a daily basis, thank you very much. If the hypothetical studies have been published in peer-reviewed journals, and there is supposedly a "strong possibility" that the third therapy would work better than the first two, I imagine that the oncologists (I assume you are talking about cancer...) would have heard about it and would have an opinion of their own. I can read about this therapy or that, but I wouldn't be so vain as to believe that a trained pediatric oncologist knows less than I how to interpret studies on new cancer therapies. Curiously enough, this topic came up about 16-17 months ago. I had a darling little girl in my practice who was dying of metastatic neuroblastoma. The 5 doctors in the Neuroblastoma division or the department of pediatric oncology at Sloan-Kettering in New York had worked like devils for a year to cure this girl, but she was, frankly, beyond hope. All conventional, and some experimental, approaches had been exhausted. Her mother called me and then brought me copies of "research" (actually just self-published testimonials, and not true research) from some doctor in Colorado who actually told this poor woman that he had treated and cured God-knows-how-many kids with *exactly her daughter's condition.* [The nerve of this *******...] Mom wanted to know my opinion of this guy's approach. I don't remember the exact details, but it involved mega-doses of vitamins, some I had heard of and some which sounded totally fictitious. I told Mom that I understood her desperation, but I doubted that anything could really be done to delay the inevitable. I did tell her that nothing on this guy's list of supplements looked harmful, so I wouldn't try to stop her from wasting her money. Mom called Dr. Colorado to ask how much his treatment would cost, and this son of a bitch responded with "Well, how much is your daughter's life worth?" I actually called him and demanded to know what the hell he thought he was up to, and the conversation, needless to say, went nowhere. Two months and about $6,000 later, Mom still had a dying kid on her hands. I got the call at 6:00 am when she passed. That's my personal experience with miracle cures that "they" don't want you to know about. Mark, MD |
#125
|
|||
|
|||
Bad news for liars, good news for kids
Mark wrote:
On Jan 14, 1:58 pm, Debbee wrote: Mark L, I have a hypothetical situation for you: If I remember correctly, you work for some kind of Medical group. Say you have a child that comes to see you with his parents because they want a 3rd opinion -- ---the chances for survival of the child are slim with the other two proposed therapies. The parents tell you that they have heard about a therapy that as Probert likes to call it, that is "fringe" that there have been some limited studies done about--say in Denmark and in Germany, but nothing stateside, but there is a strong possibility that these large doses of Vitamin supplement IVS might work for the child. As a doctor, what do you do in a case like this? You already know the odds of the chance for survival for the other two methods. The parents have handed over to you the studies from that they pulled out of peer reviewed journals. Based on the information you know about the other two treatments, then seeing this rather limited alternative medicine study information from Europe with good results, what would you recommend? Would you abandon the conventional treatment way of thinking to recommend trying the alternative medicine therapy, or would you stand by it all of the way because you work for a Medical group and your colleagues would not favor your decision? Firstly, I take umbrage at your thinly veiled sneer that I make decisions based on how some "group" thinks I should. I have been blessed with a working brain, and I use it on a daily basis, thank you very much. Debbee uses many veils. It has been her tactic for years, She uses it so she can feign deniability later on. If the hypothetical studies have been published in peer-reviewed journals, and there is supposedly a "strong possibility" that the third therapy would work better than the first two, I imagine that the oncologists (I assume you are talking about cancer...) would have heard about it and would have an opinion of their own. I can read about this therapy or that, but I wouldn't be so vain as to believe that a trained pediatric oncologist knows less than I how to interpret studies on new cancer therapies. Curiously enough, this topic came up about 16-17 months ago. I had a darling little girl in my practice who was dying of metastatic neuroblastoma. The 5 doctors in the Neuroblastoma division or the department of pediatric oncology at Sloan-Kettering in New York had worked like devils for a year to cure this girl, but she was, frankly, beyond hope. All conventional, and some experimental, approaches had been exhausted. Her mother called me and then brought me copies of "research" (actually just self-published testimonials, and not true research) from some doctor in Colorado who actually told this poor woman that he had treated and cured God-knows-how-many kids with *exactly her daughter's condition.* [The nerve of this *******...] Mom wanted to know my opinion of this guy's approach. I don't remember the exact details, but it involved mega-doses of vitamins, some I had heard of and some which sounded totally fictitious. I told Mom that I understood her desperation, but I doubted that anything could really be done to delay the inevitable. I did tell her that nothing on this guy's list of supplements looked harmful, so I wouldn't try to stop her from wasting her money. Mom called Dr. Colorado to ask how much his treatment would cost, and this son of a bitch responded with "Well, how much is your daughter's life worth?" I actually called him and demanded to know what the hell he thought he was up to, and the conversation, needless to say, went nowhere. Two months and about $6,000 later, Mom still had a dying kid on her hands. I got the call at 6:00 am when she passed. That's my personal experience with miracle cures that "they" don't want you to know about. A very sad story that those promoters of the fictitious "health freedom movement" do not want to hear. Remember, "health freedom" is a buzzword which actually means "quackery for sale". You should have reported the SOB to the authorities in Colorado. |
#126
|
|||
|
|||
Bad news for liars, good news for kids
In message , Peter Bowditch wrote:
Have you thought of having a psych workup, Jan? The verb and the addressee don't agree. -- | Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable | | e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel. | | There isn't really a Santa Claus, but try www.santaclaus.com. | +--------------- D. C. Sessions --------------+ |
#127
|
|||
|
|||
Bad news for liars, good news for kids
On Jan 15, 10:10*pm, Mark wrote:
Firstly, I take umbrage at your thinly veiled sneer that I make decisions based on how some "group" thinks I should. *I have been blessed with a working brain, and I use it on a daily basis, thank you very much. I was referencing conventional medicine--I do believe remembering that you are not an alternative health care advocate. No veil there. If the hypothetical studies have been published in peer-reviewed journals, and there is supposedly a "strong possibility" that the third therapy would work better than the first two, I imagine that the oncologists (I assume you are talking about cancer...) would have heard about it and would have an opinion of their own. *I can read about this therapy or that, but I wouldn't be so vain as to believe that a trained pediatric oncologist knows less than I how to interpret studies on new cancer therapies. I guess I wasn't thinking on the lines of cancer when I wrote that idea. But let's go ahead and use it as the diagnosis. Curiously enough, this topic came up about 16-17 months ago. *I had a darling little girl in my practice who was dying of metastatic neuroblastoma. *The 5 doctors in the Neuroblastoma division or the department of pediatric oncology at Sloan-Kettering in New York had worked like devils for a year to cure this girl, but she was, frankly, beyond hope. *All conventional, and some experimental, approaches had been exhausted. I have a lot lately in reading about children's health, and I support children's charities as a volunteer. My heart pours out to the families. I can only imagine how tough it would be to be a doctor during times like these. Her mother called me and then brought me copies of "research" (actually just self-published testimonials, and not true research) from some doctor in Colorado who actually told this poor woman that he had treated and cured God-knows-how-many kids with *exactly her daughter's condition.* *[The nerve of this *******...] Testimonials?? Good grief. Mom wanted to know my opinion of this guy's approach. *I don't remember the exact details, but it involved mega-doses of vitamins, some I had heard of and some which sounded totally fictitious. *I told Mom that I understood her desperation, but I doubted that anything could really be done to delay the inevitable. *I did tell her that nothing on this guy's list of supplements looked harmful, so I wouldn't try to stop her from wasting her money. Yes, one can only imagine what parents would do in order to try and keep going, to see if there was any therapy that would help the child. Mom called Dr. Colorado to ask how much his treatment would cost, and this son of a bitch responded with "Well, how much is your daughter's life worth?" *I actually called him and demanded to know what the hell he thought he was up to, and the conversation, needless to say, went nowhere. That's absolutely horrible. How much is your daughter's life worth? What kind of answer is that? Did you help by turning the ******* into his medical board? Two months and about $6,000 later, Mom still had a dying kid on her hands. *I got the call at 6:00 am when she passed. At the least, the mother tried everything she could to help save the life of her child; but I don't think I would have (if I had been in her shoes), have gone to Dr. Colorado based on "testimonials," and would have attempted to find help in St. Elsewhere. That's my personal experience with miracle cures that "they" don't want you to know about. I can understand about parents wanting to do all that they can for their dying child, but unless the doctor actually has personal research and data to support their findings, and not "testimonials" I find that a lot of this "miracle cures," are hogwash. It is like shampoo that claims it can heal "split ends," we all know that this is bogus. Mark, MD Thanks for your story---may it help others who see the words "testimonials" and think they mean real life research and supporting evidence. You may have saved some other parent a costly heart ache down the road. |
#128
|
|||
|
|||
Bad news for liars, good news for kids
On Jan 16, 5:13*am, Mark Probert wrote:
Debbee uses many veils. It has been her tactic for years, She uses it so she can feign deniability later on. Yes, that is what you would think about me. You don't even know me. The question was for Mark L, which he answered very appropriately, and you need to read my comments before making up garbage that simply is not true. |
#129
|
|||
|
|||
Bad news for liars, good news for kids
On Jan 16, 10:22 am, Debbee wrote:
snip Thanks for your story---may it help others who see the words "testimonials" and think they mean real life research and supporting evidence. You may have saved some other parent a costly heart ache down the road. I appreciate that. The most heart-wrenching part of this wasn't the fact that the family got swindled out of several thousand dollars; it was the false hope that this guy sold them. I'm a parent. If my kid was dying, I'd grasp at straws too. But this guy apparently does it gleefully, complete with a packaged sales pitch, and he doesn't give a damn that he is bilking desperate people by playing on their desperate hopes that their loved on can be saved. There's something to be said for letting go when it's time to do so. Thankfully, my patient's Mom reached that point before the little girl died...barely (about 16 hours, to tell the truth.) Swindlers and hucksters and those that prey on the weak and desperate...these people deserve a special place in hell. It's just despicable. That's why I'm so vehement against people like Dr. Colorado and Hulda Clark. They are obviously selling prepackaged ****, but they'll keep doing it as long as there are suckers who will pay. Sorry. Ranting again. Mark, MD |
#130
|
|||
|
|||
Bad news for liars, good news for kids
DW: Your understanding of reality must be a horrible experience.
Paul On Jan 14, 9:54*am, (David Wright) wrote: In article , rpautrey2 wrote: REALITY! Excerpt From: The Drug Story Hans Ruesch And we should believe this silly screed is "reality" because? * -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net * * *These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. * * *"Without Bush, what will America's schoolchildren have to look down on?" * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Bill Maher |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Bad news for anti-vac liars: Vaccines work | Mark Probert | Kids Health | 24 | November 17th 07 09:54 PM |
had the ultrasound--good news and bad news (m/c ment) | hobbes | Pregnancy | 24 | December 22nd 05 03:54 PM |
Good news, strange news, go figure | Jenrose | Pregnancy | 2 | August 16th 04 07:25 PM |
this is very good news to the all kids | Bull Frog | Pregnancy | 1 | August 3rd 04 11:39 PM |
Good news/annoying news at 33-week appointment | Erin | Pregnancy | 2 | September 14th 03 12:10 PM |