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Earlier Barrett Operations : He Lies to anti-fluoride group to find out their strategies & bring them down



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 20th 08, 04:31 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,talk.politics.medicine,misc.kids.health,alt.support.breast-implant,sci.med.dentistry
Mark Probert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,876
Default Earlier Barrett Operations : He Lies to anti-fluoride groupto find out their strategies & bring them down

Ilena Rose wrote:

Team member Probert is correct, he resides in Boston area ... and all
who wish to look can see his addiction to sports teams from Boston.


Chuckle...I have a dream...that the Giants wipe out the team from Boston....


OK, we have an unimpeachable source confirming that Baratz is from Boston.

Now, take a look at Skeptic's header. It reflects that his ISP is
www.mchsi.com, whose website lists all the states where they do business.

Massachusetts is not one of them.

The coffin nail comes when I used GeoIPTool which reflect that his NNTP
posting host is in Illinois.

Now, back to mchsi, which does business in Illinois.

The inescapable conclusion is that Skeptic is not Baratz.

Let's end this bull****.
  #12  
Old January 20th 08, 04:34 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,talk.politics.medicine,misc.kids.health,alt.support.breast-implant,sci.med.dentistry
Ilena Rose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,139
Default Earlier Barrett Operations : He Lies to anti-fluoride group to find out their strategies & bring them down

So ... you are still the coward, Brandon C Stahl lurking behind this
moniker, fake "skeptic".
http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagentsfaq.htm

I had almost forgotten your earlier attacks against me ... you went
underground for quite a while.

It appears that he dropped his Brandon Stahl address and took up the
fake 'skeptic address in 2003 ... and like Martin Rady (avb on Wiki
and "martin" here on Usenet) let the PR teams know his 'opinion' was
for sale.

It is very frightening to believe that the medical schools are
foisting onto the innocent public closeminded fake sceptics like him
.... when patients need open minded and clear heads.

No reputable medical person ... only cancer industry shills have such
closed minds.

http://groups.google.com/group/talk....af7d536f493f88
"Good gawd, you are right on the money. Who funded this??? I need a
few thousand to, ummm, I want to see if there's a correlation between
smoking and, oh, say lung cancer. I'll even write it up! "

Cancer: Why We're Still Dying to Know the Truth by Phillip Day.
http://groups.google.com/group/talk....5d8f0097b9fd4b

~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, I correct myself ... the coward behind the attacks from the alias
of "skeptic" is not Bobby Baratz (although I doubt like Stahl claims,
he knows nothing about him) ... but Brandon "God Help His Patients"
Stahl.

As far as Bob Baratz ... his lies surrounding his right shoe Steve
Barrrett's enormous lost to me are absurd and pure propaganda and
disinformation.

Barrett did not lose to me on a 'technicality' as his email bombing
letter begging for donations for Barrett (to use their term) falsely
claimed.

Stephen Barrett lost to me in 3 courts ... including the Supreme Court
of California, because he was not defamed. Now Baratz and Paul Lee and
others from the Snake Oil Team are trying to change history for Sue
Happy Barrett.

http://www.BreastImplantAwareness.or...WatchWatch.htm
http://www.BreastImplantAwareness.or...oil.htm#Baratz
http://www.BreastImplantAwareness.or...il.htm#Barrett

The very and utterly cowardly "skeptic" who thinks he is hiding
behind his aliases, has surfaced as Brandon C Stahl ... may God
protect his patients.

To think that such a closed minded bully who hides behind aliases is
allowed to 'practice' on innocent humans is unconscionable.

I do thank him for his new rounds of attacks ... I had almost
forgotten this page which I will soon update when I catch a minute.

http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/d...#Brandon-Stahl

  #13  
Old January 20th 08, 11:50 AM posted to misc.health.alternative, talk.politics.medicine, misc.kids.health,alt.support.breast-implant, sci.med.dentistry
Debbee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default Earlier Barrett Operations : He Lies to anti-fluoride group tofind out their strategies & bring them down

On Jan 19, 7:31*pm, Mark Probert wrote:


The inescapable conclusion is that Skeptic is not Baratz.

Let's end this bull****.



Why would you want to end the cow manure--the flies are just getting
started.
This is Usenet-and I know you do not want to curtail anyone's free
speech!
Let them rock on!!


  #14  
Old January 20th 08, 03:09 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,talk.politics.medicine,misc.kids.health,alt.support.breast-implant,sci.med.dentistry
Skeptic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Earlier Barrett Operations : He Lies to anti-fluoride group to find out their strategies & bring them down


"Ilena Rose" wrote in message
...

I had almost forgotten your earlier attacks against me ... you went
underground for quite a while.


No, Ilena, not gone underground. Been active in other groups. Simply
stopped posting on TPM because of this very reason - an inability of the
most active posters on this NG to actually discuss issues of substance. I
have moved on to moderated, professionals only, discussion groups where we
can actually talk about - and civilly disagree - on issues.

In the years and years that I've been reading your posts, I've seen nothing
more than one of two things - copying and pasting news articles and personal
attacks on all sorts of people here. I have tried, numerous times, to
engage you in a discussion on a topic, but you don't seem to want to do
that.

I'm sure you will reply to this as you do everything else - with some lame
insult on the name line, a quick blurb you and maybe 3 other people in the
world will think to be witty, followed a long repost of irrelevant data with
numerous self-serving links to your web site...

You're Ann Coulter with less class.


  #15  
Old January 20th 08, 04:39 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,talk.politics.medicine,misc.kids.health,alt.support.breast-implant,sci.med.dentistry
Ilena Rose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,139
Default Earlier Barrett Operations : He Lies to anti-fluoride group to find out their strategies & bring them down

My God Brandon Stahl ... you are the aggressor and an idiot.

YOU came after me ... not vice versa.

YOU posted your imbecilic non skeptical rants about women and suicide.

I will start a new thread to show your ignorance and prejudices ...
perhaps the medical directors of your hospital should be warned about
your inability to understand emerging science and your attacks on
women harmed by breast implants.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/
  #16  
Old January 20th 08, 04:46 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,talk.politics.medicine,misc.kids.health,alt.support.breast-implant,sci.med.dentistry
Skeptic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Earlier Barrett Operations : He Lies to anti-fluoride group to find out their strategies & bring them down

"Ilena Rose" wrote in message
...
My God Brandon Stahl ... you are the aggressor and an idiot.

YOU came after me ... not vice versa.

YOU posted your imbecilic non skeptical rants about women and suicide.

I will start a new thread to show your ignorance and prejudices ...
perhaps the medical directors of your hospital should be warned about
your inability to understand emerging science and your attacks on
women harmed by breast implants.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/


The debate was this: There is data to suggest the suicide rate is higher
among with breast implants vs. those without.

Let's say it's true. That then begs the question: Is the rate higher
because of some effect of having a breast implant, or because of an
underlying condition that predisposes people who seek implants to suicidal
ideation?

That's a scientific question, not a rant. I can easily argue both sides,
but since I know which side you'll take, I'll take the other. Now, why
would you think that implants cause suicide?

If you can discuss this, we can have an actual discussion. If you're going
to sling mud and post links to your website then this can't go further. You
don't need to worry about trying to "drive me away". I won't be here long
since no one here seems to want to discuss the issues save a few people,
like Conklin (who I have almost never agreed with), Rubin, and a few others.

So, Ilena, what say you? Care to discuss it? Is it an issue important to
you or not? If so, let's have an honest discussion.

Anyone else with thoughts on this issue?


  #17  
Old January 20th 08, 05:08 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,talk.politics.medicine,misc.kids.health,alt.support.breast-implant,sci.med.dentistry
Ilena Rose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,139
Default Earlier Barrett Operations : He Lies to anti-fluoride group to find out their strategies & bring them down

I will absolutely discuss what I believe about suicide and breast
implants.

My comments were published in the British Medical Journal and I repost
them here.

YOUR comments show ignorance and lack of skeptical thinking. You are
the kind of ignorant doctor that women in my support group tell me
about all the time ... they are told they are crazy when in fact they
are extremely ill. Dealing with ignorant physicians like yourself
(please any new readers can see his absurd comments on this thread)
can lead a woman to feel more isolated and without options. You,
Brandon C Stahl, are no medical deity. You are a frightening man and I
will see to it that your Medical School knows about your hobby here on
Usenet. (Don't bother nuking your articles ... will only make you look
worse.)

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...c8f5 1dbf0202

~~~~

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/326/7388/527

Authors miss most important clue 14 March 2003

Ilena Rosenthal,
Director, Non Profit foundation
San Diego, CA 92109
Send response to journal:
Authors miss most important clue

This study's authors miss the most important clue to the reasons a
disproportionately large number of women with breast implants choose
suicide.

Most breast implants fail over time, even though for decades they were
sold as a "lifetime" device.

With this extremely high rupture rate comes additional surgeries,
infections, and frequently the ultimate loss of the implant along with
breast tissue. Commonly, women suffer from the very painful
fibromyalgia and other often undefined diseases.

The denial of the medical profession as to their illnesses as well as
families experiencing their once healthy and vibrant mother, wife,
sister, or daughter now in chronic pain with no medical solution in
sight, leaves the women feeling more isolated and desperate.

She often then loses her job, her insurance, and the downward spiral
continues.

To ignore the enormous physical harm from ruptured implants and
drawing the fuzzy psychological conclusions the authors have, makes me
wonder about their open minded scientific approach to this growing
medical tragedy.

Ilena Rosenthal

Director, Humantics Foundation for Women
http://www.BreastImplantAwareness.org

FDA Rupture Studies

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/breastimplan...acapstudy.html
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/breastimplan...interview.html

Competing interests: Author: Breast Implants: The Myths, The Facts,
The Women Founder of Support group: Breast Implants: Recovery &
Discovery

  #18  
Old January 20th 08, 06:26 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,talk.politics.medicine,misc.kids.health,alt.support.breast-implant,sci.med.dentistry
Skeptic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Earlier Barrett Operations : He Lies to anti-fluoride group to find out their strategies & bring them down

Yeah, I read through that and didn't see anything where you explain what I
asked.

Very simply, Ilena - women who have breast implants: How do we know if they
have pre-existing reasons for a tendency toward suicide or if getting
implants createse this tendency?

That is the question. Can you answer it?


"Ilena Rose" wrote in message
...
I will absolutely discuss what I believe about suicide and breast
implants.

My comments were published in the British Medical Journal and I repost
them here.

YOUR comments show ignorance and lack of skeptical thinking. You are
the kind of ignorant doctor that women in my support group tell me
about all the time ... they are told they are crazy when in fact they
are extremely ill. Dealing with ignorant physicians like yourself
(please any new readers can see his absurd comments on this thread)
can lead a woman to feel more isolated and without options. You,
Brandon C Stahl, are no medical deity. You are a frightening man and I
will see to it that your Medical School knows about your hobby here on
Usenet. (Don't bother nuking your articles ... will only make you look
worse.)

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...c8f5 1dbf0202

~~~~

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/326/7388/527

Authors miss most important clue 14 March 2003

Ilena Rosenthal,
Director, Non Profit foundation
San Diego, CA 92109
Send response to journal:
Authors miss most important clue

This study's authors miss the most important clue to the reasons a
disproportionately large number of women with breast implants choose
suicide.

Most breast implants fail over time, even though for decades they were
sold as a "lifetime" device.

With this extremely high rupture rate comes additional surgeries,
infections, and frequently the ultimate loss of the implant along with
breast tissue. Commonly, women suffer from the very painful
fibromyalgia and other often undefined diseases.

The denial of the medical profession as to their illnesses as well as
families experiencing their once healthy and vibrant mother, wife,
sister, or daughter now in chronic pain with no medical solution in
sight, leaves the women feeling more isolated and desperate.

She often then loses her job, her insurance, and the downward spiral
continues.

To ignore the enormous physical harm from ruptured implants and
drawing the fuzzy psychological conclusions the authors have, makes me
wonder about their open minded scientific approach to this growing
medical tragedy.

Ilena Rosenthal

Director, Humantics Foundation for Women
http://www.BreastImplantAwareness.org

FDA Rupture Studies

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/breastimplan...acapstudy.html
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/breastimplan...interview.html

Competing interests: Author: Breast Implants: The Myths, The Facts,
The Women Founder of Support group: Breast Implants: Recovery &
Discovery



  #19  
Old January 20th 08, 06:49 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,talk.politics.medicine,misc.kids.health,alt.support.breast-implant,sci.med.dentistry
Ilena Rose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,139
Default Earlier Barrett Operations : He Lies to anti-fluoride group to find out their strategies & bring them down

Brandon C Stahl, fake 'skeptic' writes:

"Yeah, I read through that and didn't see anything where you explain
what I asked.

Very simply, Ilena - women who have breast implants: How do we know
if they have pre-existing reasons for a tendency toward suicide or if
getting implants createse this tendency?

That is the question. Can you answer it?"

Ilena Rosenthal's answer.

First, this issue is far wider than your one question. I am very
familiar with your slick-as-silicone technique out of speaking in
opposites and being deaf, dumb and blind to facts you don't want to
deal with.

Second, women who want breast implants should be screened for many
things first, in my opinion.

a. allergies / reactions to any of the many toxic ingredients.

b. any pre-disposition or current autoimmune diseases or other
immunological / neurological sensitivities.

c. financial ability to be able to afford not just the original
surgery, but all subsequent surgeries and MRI's in the future.

d. if they fully understand the downside that hundreds of thousands of
women have faced after the buy the "annuity" breast implant and all
the real long term ramifications.

Further, Brandon Stahl, you don't seem to understand what I have
written on this topic (as is your pattern) ... so I will repeat it
here.

My comments were published in the British Medical Journal and I repost
them here.

YOUR comments show ignorance and lack of skeptical thinking. You are
the kind of ignorant doctor that women in my support group tell me
about all the time ... they are told they are crazy when in fact they
are extremely ill. Dealing with ignorant physicians like yourself
(please any new readers can see his absurd comments on this thread)
can lead a woman to feel more isolated and without options. You,
Brandon C Stahl, are no medical deity. You are a frightening man and I
will see to it that your Medical School knows about your hobby here on
Usenet. (Don't bother nuking your articles ... will only make you look
worse.)

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...c8f5 1dbf0202

~~~~

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/326/7388/527

Authors miss most important clue 14 March 2003

Ilena Rosenthal,
Director, Non Profit foundation
San Diego, CA 92109
Send response to journal:
Authors miss most important clue

This study's authors miss the most important clue to the reasons a
disproportionately large number of women with breast implants choose
suicide.

Most breast implants fail over time, even though for decades they were
sold as a "lifetime" device.

With this extremely high rupture rate comes additional surgeries,
infections, and frequently the ultimate loss of the implant along with
breast tissue. Commonly, women suffer from the very painful
fibromyalgia and other often undefined diseases.

The denial of the medical profession as to their illnesses as well as
families experiencing their once healthy and vibrant mother, wife,
sister, or daughter now in chronic pain with no medical solution in
sight, leaves the women feeling more isolated and desperate.

She often then loses her job, her insurance, and the downward spiral
continues.

To ignore the enormous physical harm from ruptured implants and
drawing the fuzzy psychological conclusions the authors have, makes me
wonder about their open minded scientific approach to this growing
medical tragedy.

Ilena Rosenthal

Director, Humantics Foundation for Women
http://www.BreastImplantAwareness.org

FDA Rupture Studies

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/breastimplan...acapstudy.html
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/breastimplan...interview.html

Competing interests: Author: Breast Implants: The Myths, The Facts,
The Women Founder of Support group: Breast Implants: Recovery &
Discovery

  #20  
Old January 20th 08, 08:04 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,talk.politics.medicine,misc.kids.health,alt.support.breast-implant,sci.med.dentistry
Skeptic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Earlier Barrett Operations : He Lies to anti-fluoride group to find out their strategies & bring them down


"Ilena Rose" wrote in message
...
Skeptic writes:
"Yeah, I read through that and didn't see anything where you explain
what I asked.

Very simply, Ilena - women who have breast implants: How do we know
if they have pre-existing reasons for a tendency toward suicide or if
getting implants createse this tendency?

That is the question. Can you answer it?"

Ilena Rosenthal's answer.

First, this issue is far wider than your one question. I am very
familiar with your slick-as-silicone technique out of speaking in
opposites and being deaf, dumb and blind to facts you don't want to
deal with.

Second, women who want breast implants should be screened for many
things first, in my opinion.

a. allergies / reactions to any of the many toxic ingredients.

b. any pre-disposition or current autoimmune diseases or other
immunological / neurological sensitivities.

c. financial ability to be able to afford not just the original
surgery, but all subsequent surgeries and MRI's in the future.

d. if they fully understand the downside that hundreds of thousands of
women have faced after the buy the "annuity" breast implant and all
the real long term ramifications.


I don't work for the silicone industry. I don't do plastic surgery. I
speak from a desire to understand and discuss an issue.

On point a, above - agree, so long as there are claims that silicone causes
autoimmune type reactions, we should examine the issue.
Point b - agree
Point c - I wouldn't object
Point d - "real long term ramifications" is a phrase that differs from
person to person. As a genera concept, I'd agree.

What I don't see is your response to the question. I ask again, do you
think the increase rate of suicide somehow caused by having an implant
placed OR do you think the women who seek out implants are a group with a
higher risk of suicide?

I would like to know your opinion.

As for determining that - it can be done. One could design a study looking
at all women evaluated for possible breast implants. Not all will get them
for a variety of reasons (financial, psychological, fear of surgery, etc.).
One could them compare the long term outcomes of those that got them to
those that did not. A similar suicide rate would of course imply there is
no direct effect of the implant but is instead something that predisposes
that group of patients, and the converse would be true.

Actually, that study design would also be good to look at those other
conditions you always rant about, like auto-immune disorders.

Retrospective data would be incomplete and open to selection bias so it
would have to be large prospective study.


 




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