A disconnect at camp

On 10 Aug 2006 14:22:25 -0700, "L." wrote:


Banty wrote:
Exactly. The only advantage to a cell phone is immediacy. And it's the
perceived need for immediacy that I question.

Banty

Well if your kid was getting ****ed up the ass then maybe you might get
a clue as to why "immediacy" is necessary.

-L.

Then get the kid an emergency response beacon. Tell the kid what
it'll cost (lots, as in many thousands of dollars) for a non-emergency
response. Then be prepared to pay the bill if the emergency
responders judge it an unnecessary call.
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:55:57 GMT, Nan wrote:
On 10 Aug 2006 14:22:25 -0700, "L." wrote:


Banty wrote:
Exactly. The only advantage to a cell phone is immediacy. And it's the
perceived need for immediacy that I question.

Banty

Well if your kid was getting ****ed up the ass then maybe you might get
a clue as to why "immediacy" is necessary.

-L.

Your penchant for hyperbole is so charming.


Oh, come on Nan, haven't you heard about all of those YMCA-sponsored rape
camps, in which all of the staff members are involved?

- Rich

--
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
http://www.mulveyfamily.com/kids

"Caledonia" wrote in message
ups.com...
But on another topic entirely, when was the last time you *saw* a
payphone in an urban environment? For me, it was '92 (Boston's
Chinatown/Combat Zone)....haven't seen one of those things in years.

I don't know about an urban environment, but our Wal-mart has them
outside, and I know I've seen others around. I never carry a cell,
and figure that if it was a *real* emergency, I could borrow someone
else's. But as of yet, I've never had to do that.

Bizby

we have at least 1 phone booth at every store here. And most stores still
sell film here.

Tori
Interesting -- I live in Rural Environment, and the payphone has been
out of the General Store for many years now...'Bout the same time they
stopped selling film. Hmmm.

Caledonia

"L." wrote in message
ups.com...
The only way to be *sure* your child can call you in crisis is to
provide them with a cell phone.

That's not a sure way. There are lots of places without cell
coverage, especially out in the middle of nowhere, where camps tend to
be. And if there is no place to recharge, or if the child forgets to,
the battery will go dead.

I find it rather abhorrent that so many people in
this thread turn the welfare and safety of their kids over to
virtual
strangers, all the while leaving their children with virtually no
*concrete* means of recourse should something happen.

I don't like the idea of overnight camp because I don't like being
away from my kids for so long. Also, I don't think either has the
right personality for it, so I don't think they'd enjoy it.

But as for handing them over to strangers, well, that's what happens
as they get older. The cell phone won't stop an attack from happening
in the first place, and I'm sure that's your main goal. At some point
you have to start letting go, even knowing that it's a scary world out
there.

Bizby

"bizby40" wrote:
"L." wrote in message
oups.com...
The only way to be *sure* your child can call you in crisis is to
provide them with a cell phone.

That's not a sure way. There are lots of places without cell
coverage, especially out in the middle of nowhere, where camps tend to
be. And if there is no place to recharge, or if the child forgets to,
the battery will go dead.

Or the thing can fall in the water, or get lost. Have you never lost
your cell phone? My mom's cell phone fell in the toilet.

1) Cell phones are not reliable.

They are somewhat more reliable now than they were in the days of the
old bag phones. But significant parts of my drive up to my mom's
house there's no service. I live out on the country. Where most
camps are. And at my BILs house which is in a densely populated area,
there's no service at his house.

And in addition to being unreliable they are extremely subject to
abuse. (by the users)

What do you think people did in the days before cell phones?

2) There is no way to be sure that your child can get in touch with
you in an emergency. Just like there's no way you can be sure to get
in touch with your dh or your mother or any one of a number of people
that you might want to get in touch with.

I find it rather abhorrent that so many people in
this thread turn the welfare and safety of their kids over to
virtual strangers, all the while leaving their children with virtually no
*concrete* means of recourse should something happen.

Bull****.

You send them to school (at least I hope you are not sending
pre-school children to overnight camp). Schools are full of
strangers. Not just the teachers - substitute teachers, janitors,
cafeteria ladies, room mothers, the school photographer, the
mailman... the list goes on.

Besides, if there is a real emergency that you need to be contacted,
the camp probably has a land line phone, and in the case of a real
emergency (not just homesickness or something), I'm sure the camp will
contact you.

If you don't think that they will, why are you sending your kid there?

I don't like the idea of overnight camp because I don't like being
away from my kids for so long. Also, I don't think either has the
right personality for it, so I don't think they'd enjoy it.

One of those is your problem, which is maybe going to be their problem
in the future. And one of those is possibly a valid assessment.
Although it may be that your view of what they would enjoy because of
your bias.

I was sent to camp, and except for one week, I always enjoyed it when
I got there, although it wouldn't have been something I would have
picked to do because I was perfectly happy sitting in the house
reading a book. The highlight was going to Girl Scout camp where I
learned how to canoe, and we went on an overnight canoe trip.

The time I wasn't happy was because I was the middle person between
two groups of girls - one group fairly sophisticated (wearing lipstick
etc which I wasn't allowed to do), and the other group were from the
orphan asylum and even less sophisticated than I was. Neither group
was friendly with the other, plus I couldn't make up my cot so that
the tent would win a neatness award and all the other girls could do
that. But it wasn't a permanent scar on my soul or anything. The
counselors eventually picked up on the problem and resolved the
situation.

My children went to camp at various ages, and in one instance I
miscalculated. Although the guidelines said the ages were 11-13 and
my dd was at the youngest age it would be possible to go (i.e. she'd
just had her 11th birthday), she was significantly younger than the
other girls and less physically mature. She also needed quite a bit
of sleep.

But it wasn't a disaster, because it was a horse camp, and she took
solace in the horses. She was a fairly stoic child. BTW she had the
same sleep problem (not being able to get enough sack time) when she
was a freshman in college and was paired with a night owl roommate.


But as for handing them over to strangers, well, that's what happens
as they get older. The cell phone won't stop an attack from happening
in the first place, and I'm sure that's your main goal. At some point
you have to start letting go, even knowing that it's a scary world out
there.

Bizby

And they need to know some other skills for coping OT just running to
the cell phone and calling mommy.

grandma Rosalie

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
"bizby40" wrote:
I don't like the idea of overnight camp because I don't like being
away from my kids for so long. Also, I don't think either has the
right personality for it, so I don't think they'd enjoy it.

One of those is your problem, which is maybe going to be their
problem
in the future. And one of those is possibly a valid assessment.
Although it may be that your view of what they would enjoy because
of
your bias.

Well, the idea of sending them away to an overnight camp has never
even really come up. People around here just don't seem to do that.
And you know, I never did it as a kid either. So, I doubt I'll ever
really consider it until and unless one of them actually asks to go.

But my assessment of how they'd like it is based on how they deal with
the day camps they've been to.

Bizby

"bizby40" wrote:
"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .
"bizby40" wrote:
I don't like the idea of overnight camp because I don't like being
away from my kids for so long. Also, I don't think either has the
right personality for it, so I don't think they'd enjoy it.

One of those is your problem, which is maybe going to be their
problem
in the future. And one of those is possibly a valid assessment.
Although it may be that your view of what they would enjoy because
of
your bias.

Well, the idea of sending them away to an overnight camp has never
even really come up. People around here just don't seem to do that.
And you know, I never did it as a kid either. So, I doubt I'll ever
really consider it until and unless one of them actually asks to go.

But my assessment of how they'd like it is based on how they deal with
the day camps they've been to.

All my kids went to overnight camp, although the two younger ones were
only at sports camps and not scout camp IIRC. The two older ones went
to GS camp in RI. First day camp and then overnight camp and then
DD#1 went to primitive horse camp. And they seemed to enjoy it. Then
we moved to southern MD, and they dropped out of scouts (there were
enough other activities to take up their time - 4H, swim team, Pony
Club etc).

DD#2 went to 4H horse camp, and so did dd#3. DD#3 went to swim camp
at UVA, and also to Pony Club Rallies, and DS went to Pony Club camp.
I can't remember whether he went to swim camp or not. It seems to me
that two of the children did, but I don't remember whether it was DD#2
and DD#3 or DD#3 and DS.

Pony Club Rallies were fairly strenuous because the parents were only
allowed to feed the kids and help run the camp, but not do any of the
stable work. When DD#2 went to the USAFA, a Pony Club friend who had
gone to USMA told her that Plebe year was just like a year of Rally.
(And BTW, DD#2 was not allowed any phone calls home for the first 6
weeks of USAFA.)

DD#3 and DS also had summer jobs away from home for the summer that
they were 16 at various stables. DD#3 at a big show jumping stable,
and DS at a dressage stable. They lived in a kind of dorm situation.

user wrote:

Oh, come on Nan, haven't you heard about all of those YMCA-sponsored rape
camps, in which all of the staff members are involved?

All it takes is one rape, and yes, it happens.

Check out this site:
http://www.campsafetyproject.org/

There are a number of specific cases on this page:
http://www.campsafetyproject.org/Articles.html

Below are more specific cases - just the tip of the iceberg if you do a
search for such cases. I know the child victim in the first article.

http://www.timessentinel.com/local/l...178190413.html
http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/Schwartz_David.html
http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/Sinrod_Blake.html
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/06/2...ion/index.html

So joke and laugh all you want but the fact is, kids are at risk when
they attend camp. You might not think it was so funny had it happened
to you, as it did me.

-L.

Rosalie B. wrote:
And they need to know some other skills for coping OT just running to
the cell phone and calling mommy.


How do you expect a child to "cope" with situations like these?

http://www.campsafetyproject.org/id14.html

Either you people are incredibly naive or incredibly stupid. Either
way, I am damn glad I'm not your kid.

-L.