Man walks into office and kills ex-girlfriend over child support

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...
** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me
and was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat
on a 1 1/2 year old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't
want a nap. He had anxiety issues and was being medicated for about a
month. Then he quit. He promised month after month to go back but it
never happened. AFter 3 months State troppers knock on my door
because my husband was caught on surveillance cameras stealing over
1200.00 for his job.( he worked retail). I couldn't handle anymore. I
gave him an easy choice. He could forego paying support by just
signing him totally over to me. He refused. He paid child support.
He couldn't keep a job,and was constantly behind on his payments. In
over 4 years, he never once tried to see his son yet would tell me
that the name is what's important ( mind you the child knows nothing
about the family name since his father never saw him) and that he
still loves him. I never will understand my ex-husbands philosophy on
all of this. But Alas, I have remarried and Next month we all go
downtown to swear in front of the judge that my husband is adopting
my son. his father finally.. (after 7 years) realizes that our son
is better off having a father who does things with him and takes care
of him. So I guess my story DOES have a happy ending

I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father
stepped aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to
raise your child with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so long
to let go. If any child support arrearages have accrued, will you be
signing a letter of satisfaction saying that they are paid in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like
things are working out well for all of you.
** to tell you the truth, he paid up all his back arrears and is also
paying ofor the adoption. Lawyer's idea and I agree... on one hand he
could be paying the next 9 years of child support or the $1200.00 for
the adoption.. He opted for the latter.

Wait a second. You have a legal CS obligation too. How much have you
been required to pay all along? Why are you so willing to sell out your
own CS obligation? Do you really think accepting $1200 lets you off the
hook to support your child?
** afraid I'm not following what you are saying.

In the majority of states CS orders detail the CP's obligation, the NCP's
obligation, and the total obligation. Your comments have focused only on
the NCP's CS obligation and have totally ignored what the impact will be
on your CS obligation. In fact, your comments have suggested you don't
recognize your portion of the existing court ordered CS obligation.

By accepting the $1,200 to pay for an adoption you are taking a payoff to
get out from under your court ordered CS obligation. The net legal affect
will be for both the CP's and NCP's legal CS obligation to go away. The
result will be the obligation to support the child will no longer be
controlled by the state/courts.

So my questions are - How much have you been ordered to pay? Have you
been providing it? How do you plan to handle any CS arrearage amounts
from the NCP?

** I am the childs mother, I have provided a hell of alot more financially
and emotionally then his bio-father has. I have paid my due and will
continue the rest of my life. My husband wants to adopt my son. My son is
thrilled with the idea and cannot wait. The Bio-father has realized he
hasn't been and doesn't care to perform any obligations where his son is
concerned. And that is fine. My son has someone who does and has been.
What's soo wrong about that? What is soo wrong to have all arrears paid up
and the adoption paid for so that my son can be in a family that cares about
him and his well being? This isn't Ebay.. I'm not looking for the best
deal.. I'm looking for the real thing.

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
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"April" wrote in message
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"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin"
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin"
wrote in message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpc ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation
like that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you
would
*never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like
that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John,
I
would like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok
for
a woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12
years have passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back
support? Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that
child
a father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed,
and
cared for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her
something?
Even if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80
cents an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and
medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE
of
the hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the
firts day of schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and
wrestling matches and dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the
other wonderful growing up memories that dad's and kids
share,
then and only then should he pay her "child support" for
all
the years she stole from him and his child. If SHE made the
unilateral decision to be a single parent for 12 years
(while
keeping all the wonders of the child's growing and
development
for herself), she should be not only willing, but
obligated,
to pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn
for you for 5 years, but only did it while you were at
work,
and never told you he was doing it, would you be willing to
fork over several thousand dollars when he demanded it at
the
end of 5 years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or
spouses to totally agree with you. To make my point, if you
gave your friend a lawnmower and he broke it while doing
your
lawn.... should YOU have to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men
should be handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and
so
was I. Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child
without
informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years
of
back child support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do
that. because some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known
some
mothers who have abused their children--does that mean that
it
is ok with you that a father could take his child and run off
with the child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of back
child
support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30
years,
I finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my
life.
I WAS an abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by
her. My mother doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to
keep me away from my father all those years and deprive me of
having him in my formative years. ( doesn't matter, come to
find
out I was always like him even when he wasn't around lol) I'm
just saying you were generalizing in your post so I retorted
doing the same. I don't totally disagree with you but I don't
totally agree either. There are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that.
It's "victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the
child alone. I do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a
child from the father deserves a flipping penny whe she finally
proves paternity. IF she is doing because of abuse, she needs
to
PROVE it!! But the system doesn't care about anything except
the
almighty dollar. To heck with a child's need to have 2
parents--only money matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know,
but it's the truth. Money is the most important thing to most
ppl
anymore. Not values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is
any
more important than mine or any other individual's when it comes
to
the child support system. Do you, personally, think that a woman
should be able to have a child without informing the father,
raise
that child for 12 years, then demand 12 years of back child
support
and ongoing support? (Barring any sort of abuse, of course) Do
you
think this is right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away
from the child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her
choice?
Now, if the mother is prepared to allow the father visitation and
allow him to get to know his child. I think from that point on
out
he should pay child support. Hard to pay for something you didn't
even know you had.

Yes, that's my take on it also. Some places, however, still charge
a
man back to the birth of the child, no matter what. Other places
have
recognized the unfairness of using a man as a savings account
without
his knowledge, and limit the amount of time they charge for. Some
have refused to charge any arrearages at all in such situations.

From your experience growing up without your father, I can see that
you realize first hand how important it is for a child to have his/
father in his/her life. I wish more people understood that money
will
never replace a father. Nor can the hole in the father's heart be
healed by telling him "but you get to pay for all the time you
missed."

** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me
and
was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat on a
1
1/2 year old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't want a
nap. He had anxiety issues and was being medicated for about a
month.
Then he quit. He promised month after month to go back but it never
happened. AFter 3 months State troppers knock on my door because my
husband was caught on surveillance cameras stealing over 1200.00 for
his job.( he worked retail). I couldn't handle anymore. I gave him
an
easy choice. He could forego paying support by just signing him
totally over to me. He refused. He paid child support. He
couldn't
keep a job,and was constantly behind on his payments. In over 4
years,
he never once tried to see his son yet would tell me that the name
is
what's important ( mind you the child knows nothing about the family
name since his father never saw him) and that he still loves him. I
never will understand my ex-husbands philosophy on all of this. But
Alas, I have remarried and Next month we all go downtown to swear in
front of the judge that my husband is adopting my son. his father
finally.. (after 7 years) realizes that our son is better off having
a
father who does things with him and takes care of him. So I guess
my
story DOES have a happy ending

I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father
stepped
aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to raise
your
child with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so long to let go.
If
any child support arrearages have accrued, will you be signing a
letter
of satisfaction saying that they are paid in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like
things
are working out well for all of you.
** to tell you the truth, he paid up all his back arrears and is also
paying ofor the adoption. Lawyer's idea and I agree... on one hand he
could be paying the next 9 years of child support or the $1200.00 for
the
adoption.. He opted for the latter.

Wait a second. You have a legal CS obligation too. How much have you
been required to pay all along? Why are you so willing to sell out
your
own CS obligation? Do you really think accepting $1200 lets you off
the
hook to support your child?

I don't quite understand what you are asking, Bob. April said her
child's
bio father never wanted anything to do with the child, but refused to
sign
away his rights.

Just curious: what exactly are these "rights"?
** the right to change the childs name and who the child's father is. He
had other rights but never used them. I'm not accountable for that.

This last year, he said he would sign away his rights and
let April's husband, who has been raising the child along with April,
adopt
him. He has agreed to pay the $1200 adoption fee. Then he doesn't have
to
pay child support for 9 more years for a child he has never even
attempted
to have a relationship with. April has been doing her part to support
her
son all along.

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
news

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin"
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin"
wrote in message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tm ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation
like that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you
would *never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like
that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John,
I would like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok
for a woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12
years have passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back
support? Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that
child a father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and
cared for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her
something? Even if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80
cents an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and
medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE
of the hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the
firts day of schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and
wrestling matches and dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the
other wonderful growing up memories that dad's and kids
share, then and only then should he pay her "child support"
for all the years she stole from him and his child. If SHE
made the unilateral decision to be a single parent for 12
years (while keeping all the wonders of the child's growing
and development for herself), she should be not only
willing, but obligated, to pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn
for you for 5 years, but only did it while you were at work,
and never told you he was doing it, would you be willing to
fork over several thousand dollars when he demanded it at
the end of 5 years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or
spouses to totally agree with you. To make my point, if you
gave your friend a lawnmower and he broke it while doing your
lawn.... should YOU have to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men
should be handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and
so was I. Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without
informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years
of back child support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do
that. because some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known
some mothers who have abused their children--does that mean
that it is ok with you that a father could take his child and
run off with the child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of
back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30
years, I finally found my father. My mother told me lies all
my life. I WAS an abused child. Mentally, Physically and
Emotionally by her. My mother doesn't deserve anything. It was
her choice to keep me away from my father all those years and
deprive me of having him in my formative years. ( doesn't
matter, come to find out I was always like him even when he
wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were generalizing in
your post so I retorted doing the same. I don't totally
disagree with you but I don't totally agree either. There are
exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that.
It's "victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the
child alone. I do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a
child from the father deserves a flipping penny whe she finally
proves paternity. IF she is doing because of abuse, she needs to
PROVE it!! But the system doesn't care about anything except the
almighty dollar. To heck with a child's need to have 2
parents--only money matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know,
but it's the truth. Money is the most important thing to most
ppl anymore. Not values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is
any more important than mine or any other individual's when it
comes to the child support system. Do you, personally, think that
a woman should be able to have a child without informing the
father, raise that child for 12 years, then demand 12 years of
back child support and ongoing support? (Barring any sort of
abuse, of course) Do you think this is right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away
from the child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her choice?
Now, if the mother is prepared to allow the father visitation and
allow him to get to know his child. I think from that point on out
he should pay child support. Hard to pay for something you didn't
even know you had.

Yes, that's my take on it also. Some places, however, still charge
a man back to the birth of the child, no matter what. Other places
have recognized the unfairness of using a man as a savings account
without his knowledge, and limit the amount of time they charge for.
Some have refused to charge any arrearages at all in such
situations.

From your experience growing up without your father, I can see that
you realize first hand how important it is for a child to have his/
father in his/her life. I wish more people understood that money
will never replace a father. Nor can the hole in the father's heart
be healed by telling him "but you get to pay for all the time you
missed."

** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me
and was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat
on a 1 1/2 year old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't
want a nap. He had anxiety issues and was being medicated for about a
month. Then he quit. He promised month after month to go back but it
never happened. AFter 3 months State troppers knock on my door
because my husband was caught on surveillance cameras stealing over
1200.00 for his job.( he worked retail). I couldn't handle anymore. I
gave him an easy choice. He could forego paying support by just
signing him totally over to me. He refused. He paid child support.
He couldn't keep a job,and was constantly behind on his payments. In
over 4 years, he never once tried to see his son yet would tell me
that the name is what's important ( mind you the child knows nothing
about the family name since his father never saw him) and that he
still loves him. I never will understand my ex-husbands philosophy on
all of this. But Alas, I have remarried and Next month we all go
downtown to swear in front of the judge that my husband is adopting
my son. his father finally.. (after 7 years) realizes that our son
is better off having a father who does things with him and takes care
of him. So I guess my story DOES have a happy ending

I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father
stepped aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to
raise your child with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so long
to let go. If any child support arrearages have accrued, will you be
signing a letter of satisfaction saying that they are paid in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like
things are working out well for all of you.
** to tell you the truth, he paid up all his back arrears and is also
paying ofor the adoption. Lawyer's idea and I agree... on one hand he
could be paying the next 9 years of child support or the $1200.00 for
the adoption.. He opted for the latter.

Wait a second. You have a legal CS obligation too. How much have you
been required to pay all along? Why are you so willing to sell out your
own CS obligation? Do you really think accepting $1200 lets you off the
hook to support your child?

I don't quite understand what you are asking, Bob. April said her
child's bio father never wanted anything to do with the child, but
refused to sign away his rights. This last year, he said he would sign
away his rights and let April's husband, who has been raising the child
along with April, adopt him. He has agreed to pay the $1200 adoption
fee. Then he doesn't have to pay child support for 9 more years for a
child he has never even attempted to have a relationship with. April has
been doing her part to support her son all along.

Well she has had a pretty sweet deal. She gets CS from the child's father
(he paid all arrears, right?), has a current husband helping to support
her kid, and she doesn't even acknowledge she had any CS obligation of her
own. Her comments have indicated three adults have been paying to support
this kid, but I suspect the people supporting the kid are the two men.

I'm asking her how much she was ordered to pay and if she paid it. If she
claims to have been providing her portion of support too then she has one
really well taken care of kid. And the adoption will reduce the amount of
support from three adults to two adults and make the kid worse off. I
suspect this is just another case where the CP mom is shuffling dollars
around and claiming she has been paying her share of CS with the money she
has been getting from two different men.
** for your information, All of the money I have gotten from the bio-father
has gone into a savings acct for him. The money was for him and it will
remain so. I have worked upwards of 3 jobs at one time to take care of my
son on my own. I have paid ALL medical bills, ALL food bills, ALL clothing.
70.00 a week doesn't cover **** when you have a chilld. hence why it all
went into a bank acct. Perhaps , you sir, should get your ****in facts
straight before you go off in directions you have NO comapss for.

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
news

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin"
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin"
wrote in message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5t ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation
like that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you
would *never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like
that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John,
I would like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok
for a woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12
years have passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back
support? Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that
child a father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed,
and cared for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her
something? Even if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80
cents an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and
medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE
of the hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords,
the firts day of schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and
wrestling matches and dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the
other wonderful growing up memories that dad's and kids
share, then and only then should he pay her "child support"
for all the years she stole from him and his child. If SHE
made the unilateral decision to be a single parent for 12
years (while keeping all the wonders of the child's growing
and development for herself), she should be not only
willing, but obligated, to pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn
for you for 5 years, but only did it while you were at
work, and never told you he was doing it, would you be
willing to fork over several thousand dollars when he
demanded it at the end of 5 years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or
spouses to totally agree with you. To make my point, if you
gave your friend a lawnmower and he broke it while doing
your lawn.... should YOU have to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men
should be handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and
so was I. Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child
without informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands
12 years of back child support plus ongoing support has the
RIGHT to do that. because some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known
some mothers who have abused their children--does that mean
that it is ok with you that a father could take his child and
run off with the child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of
back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30
years, I finally found my father. My mother told me lies all
my life. I WAS an abused child. Mentally, Physically and
Emotionally by her. My mother doesn't deserve anything. It
was her choice to keep me away from my father all those years
and deprive me of having him in my formative years. ( doesn't
matter, come to find out I was always like him even when he
wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were generalizing in
your post so I retorted doing the same. I don't totally
disagree with you but I don't totally agree either. There are
exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that.
It's "victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the
child alone. I do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a
child from the father deserves a flipping penny whe she finally
proves paternity. IF she is doing because of abuse, she needs
to PROVE it!! But the system doesn't care about anything except
the almighty dollar. To heck with a child's need to have 2
parents--only money matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know,
but it's the truth. Money is the most important thing to most
ppl anymore. Not values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is
any more important than mine or any other individual's when it
comes to the child support system. Do you, personally, think
that a woman should be able to have a child without informing the
father, raise that child for 12 years, then demand 12 years of
back child support and ongoing support? (Barring any sort of
abuse, of course) Do you think this is right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away
from the child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her
choice? Now, if the mother is prepared to allow the father
visitation and allow him to get to know his child. I think from
that point on out he should pay child support. Hard to pay for
something you didn't even know you had.

Yes, that's my take on it also. Some places, however, still charge
a man back to the birth of the child, no matter what. Other places
have recognized the unfairness of using a man as a savings account
without his knowledge, and limit the amount of time they charge
for. Some have refused to charge any arrearages at all in such
situations.

From your experience growing up without your father, I can see that
you realize first hand how important it is for a child to have his/
father in his/her life. I wish more people understood that money
will never replace a father. Nor can the hole in the father's
heart be healed by telling him "but you get to pay for all the time
you missed."

** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me
and was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat
on a 1 1/2 year old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't
want a nap. He had anxiety issues and was being medicated for about
a month. Then he quit. He promised month after month to go back but
it never happened. AFter 3 months State troppers knock on my door
because my husband was caught on surveillance cameras stealing over
1200.00 for his job.( he worked retail). I couldn't handle anymore.
I gave him an easy choice. He could forego paying support by just
signing him totally over to me. He refused. He paid child support.
He couldn't keep a job,and was constantly behind on his payments.
In over 4 years, he never once tried to see his son yet would tell
me that the name is what's important ( mind you the child knows
nothing about the family name since his father never saw him) and
that he still loves him. I never will understand my ex-husbands
philosophy on all of this. But Alas, I have remarried and Next month
we all go downtown to swear in front of the judge that my husband is
adopting my son. his father finally.. (after 7 years) realizes that
our son is better off having a father who does things with him and
takes care of him. So I guess my story DOES have a happy ending

I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father
stepped aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to
raise your child with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so long
to let go. If any child support arrearages have accrued, will you be
signing a letter of satisfaction saying that they are paid in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like
things are working out well for all of you.
** to tell you the truth, he paid up all his back arrears and is also
paying ofor the adoption. Lawyer's idea and I agree... on one hand he
could be paying the next 9 years of child support or the $1200.00 for
the adoption.. He opted for the latter.

Wait a second. You have a legal CS obligation too. How much have you
been required to pay all along? Why are you so willing to sell out
your own CS obligation? Do you really think accepting $1200 lets you
off the hook to support your child?

I don't quite understand what you are asking, Bob. April said her
child's bio father never wanted anything to do with the child, but
refused to sign away his rights. This last year, he said he would sign
away his rights and let April's husband, who has been raising the child
along with April, adopt him. He has agreed to pay the $1200 adoption
fee. Then he doesn't have to pay child support for 9 more years for a
child he has never even attempted to have a relationship with. April
has been doing her part to support her son all along.

Well she has had a pretty sweet deal. She gets CS from the child's
father (he paid all arrears, right?), has a current husband helping to
support her kid, and she doesn't even acknowledge she had any CS
obligation of her own. Her comments have indicated three adults have been
paying to support this kid, but I suspect the people supporting the kid
are the two men.

I'm asking her how much she was ordered to pay and if she paid it. If
she claims to have been providing her portion of support too then she has
one really well taken care of kid. And the adoption will reduce the
amount of support from three adults to two adults and make the kid worse
off. I suspect this is just another case where the CP mom is shuffling
dollars around and claiming she has been paying her share of CS with the
money she has been getting from two different men.

Well, Bob, it at least sounds as if everyone is ending up satisfied--the
man who never wanted the child (just wanted the child to have his name for
a while) does not have to pay anything any more. The child has a father
who wants him enough to adopt him. And mom, dad, and kid are a family
unit. It's better than most of these cases work out. I don't know when
April married the new husband, or if she worked outside the home.

Does this mean you are backing off on your prior conclusion that "April has
been doing her part to support her son all along"? I hope so. :-)

You know my point - When the money from CS received, support from subsequent
men in the mom's life, and whatever the mom actually contributes gets mixed
into a household budget there is no way to follow the money. And the lack
of accountability for how the CS dollars are spent on the children is
maddening when you know darn well it is being used in ways far different
than the nice, neat way the CS guidelines are constructed and used to
calculate required support.

"April" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...
** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me
and was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat
on a 1 1/2 year old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't
want a nap. He had anxiety issues and was being medicated for about
a month. Then he quit. He promised month after month to go back but
it never happened. AFter 3 months State troppers knock on my door
because my husband was caught on surveillance cameras stealing over
1200.00 for his job.( he worked retail). I couldn't handle anymore.
I gave him an easy choice. He could forego paying support by just
signing him totally over to me. He refused. He paid child support.
He couldn't keep a job,and was constantly behind on his payments.
In over 4 years, he never once tried to see his son yet would tell
me that the name is what's important ( mind you the child knows
nothing about the family name since his father never saw him) and
that he still loves him. I never will understand my ex-husbands
philosophy on all of this. But Alas, I have remarried and Next month
we all go downtown to swear in front of the judge that my husband is
adopting my son. his father finally.. (after 7 years) realizes that
our son is better off having a father who does things with him and
takes care of him. So I guess my story DOES have a happy ending

I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father
stepped aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to
raise your child with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so long
to let go. If any child support arrearages have accrued, will you be
signing a letter of satisfaction saying that they are paid in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like
things are working out well for all of you.
** to tell you the truth, he paid up all his back arrears and is also
paying ofor the adoption. Lawyer's idea and I agree... on one hand he
could be paying the next 9 years of child support or the $1200.00 for
the adoption.. He opted for the latter.

Wait a second. You have a legal CS obligation too. How much have you
been required to pay all along? Why are you so willing to sell out
your own CS obligation? Do you really think accepting $1200 lets you
off the hook to support your child?
** afraid I'm not following what you are saying.

In the majority of states CS orders detail the CP's obligation, the NCP's
obligation, and the total obligation. Your comments have focused only on
the NCP's CS obligation and have totally ignored what the impact will be
on your CS obligation. In fact, your comments have suggested you don't
recognize your portion of the existing court ordered CS obligation.

By accepting the $1,200 to pay for an adoption you are taking a payoff to
get out from under your court ordered CS obligation. The net legal
affect will be for both the CP's and NCP's legal CS obligation to go
away. The result will be the obligation to support the child will no
longer be controlled by the state/courts.

So my questions are - How much have you been ordered to pay? Have you
been providing it? How do you plan to handle any CS arrearage amounts
from the NCP?

** I am the childs mother, I have provided a hell of alot more financially
and emotionally then his bio-father has. I have paid my due and will
continue the rest of my life. My husband wants to adopt my son. My son
is thrilled with the idea and cannot wait. The Bio-father has realized he
hasn't been and doesn't care to perform any obligations where his son is
concerned. And that is fine. My son has someone who does and has been.
What's soo wrong about that? What is soo wrong to have all arrears paid
up and the adoption paid for so that my son can be in a family that cares
about him and his well being? This isn't Ebay.. I'm not looking for the
best deal.. I'm looking for the real thing.

I asked three simple, straightforward questions. Not one was answered in
what is posted above. Why are you dodging the questions?

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...
** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me
and was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat
on a 1 1/2 year old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't
want a nap. He had anxiety issues and was being medicated for about
a month. Then he quit. He promised month after month to go back
but it never happened. AFter 3 months State troppers knock on my
door because my husband was caught on surveillance cameras stealing
over 1200.00 for his job.( he worked retail). I couldn't handle
anymore. I gave him an easy choice. He could forego paying support
by just signing him totally over to me. He refused. He paid child
support. He couldn't keep a job,and was constantly behind on his
payments. In over 4 years, he never once tried to see his son yet
would tell me that the name is what's important ( mind you the
child knows nothing about the family name since his father never
saw him) and that he still loves him. I never will understand my
ex-husbands philosophy on all of this. But Alas, I have remarried
and Next month we all go downtown to swear in front of the judge
that my husband is adopting my son. his father finally.. (after 7
years) realizes that our son is better off having a father who does
things with him and takes care of him. So I guess my story DOES
have a happy ending

I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father
stepped aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to
raise your child with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so long
to let go. If any child support arrearages have accrued, will you be
signing a letter of satisfaction saying that they are paid in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like
things are working out well for all of you.
** to tell you the truth, he paid up all his back arrears and is also
paying ofor the adoption. Lawyer's idea and I agree... on one hand
he could be paying the next 9 years of child support or the $1200.00
for the adoption.. He opted for the latter.

Wait a second. You have a legal CS obligation too. How much have you
been required to pay all along? Why are you so willing to sell out
your own CS obligation? Do you really think accepting $1200 lets you
off the hook to support your child?
** afraid I'm not following what you are saying.

In the majority of states CS orders detail the CP's obligation, the
NCP's obligation, and the total obligation. Your comments have focused
only on the NCP's CS obligation and have totally ignored what the impact
will be on your CS obligation. In fact, your comments have suggested
you don't recognize your portion of the existing court ordered CS
obligation.

By accepting the $1,200 to pay for an adoption you are taking a payoff
to get out from under your court ordered CS obligation. The net legal
affect will be for both the CP's and NCP's legal CS obligation to go
away. The result will be the obligation to support the child will no
longer be controlled by the state/courts.

So my questions are - How much have you been ordered to pay? Have you
been providing it? How do you plan to handle any CS arrearage amounts
from the NCP?

** I am the childs mother, I have provided a hell of alot more
financially and emotionally then his bio-father has. I have paid my due
and will continue the rest of my life. My husband wants to adopt my son.
My son is thrilled with the idea and cannot wait. The Bio-father has
realized he hasn't been and doesn't care to perform any obligations where
his son is concerned. And that is fine. My son has someone who does and
has been. What's soo wrong about that? What is soo wrong to have all
arrears paid up and the adoption paid for so that my son can be in a
family that cares about him and his well being? This isn't Ebay.. I'm
not looking for the best deal.. I'm looking for the real thing.

I asked three simple, straightforward questions. Not one was answered in
what is posted above. Why are you dodging the questions?

** #1 I have been ordered to pay NOTHING I had sole custody. Noone had to
"ORDER" me to pay anything for my son.. I did so for HIM.
#2 I provided more for him than his father ever could. A hell of alot more
than $70.00 a week.
#3 I owe no arrears for my son. He is happy and healthy.

now, here are MY questions....
#1 who the **** do you think you are to come on here and insinuate that *I*
have done NOTHING to provide and make my son happy?
#2 Who the **** do you think you are to come on here and tell me *I* owe for
my son? You have NO IDEA what my son and I have been thru without ANY help
from ANY man.
#3 How can you sit there and expect me to OWE my ex-husband ( who in case
you forgot was abusive) a ****ing penny?

"April" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
news

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin"
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin"
wrote in message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5t ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation
like that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you
would *never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like
that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John,
I would like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok
for a woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12
years have passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back
support? Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that
child a father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed,
and cared for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her
something? Even if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80
cents an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and
medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE
of the hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords,
the firts day of schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and
wrestling matches and dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the
other wonderful growing up memories that dad's and kids
share, then and only then should he pay her "child support"
for all the years she stole from him and his child. If SHE
made the unilateral decision to be a single parent for 12
years (while keeping all the wonders of the child's growing
and development for herself), she should be not only
willing, but obligated, to pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn
for you for 5 years, but only did it while you were at
work, and never told you he was doing it, would you be
willing to fork over several thousand dollars when he
demanded it at the end of 5 years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or
spouses to totally agree with you. To make my point, if you
gave your friend a lawnmower and he broke it while doing
your lawn.... should YOU have to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men
should be handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and
so was I. Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child
without informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands
12 years of back child support plus ongoing support has the
RIGHT to do that. because some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known
some mothers who have abused their children--does that mean
that it is ok with you that a father could take his child and
run off with the child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of
back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30
years, I finally found my father. My mother told me lies all
my life. I WAS an abused child. Mentally, Physically and
Emotionally by her. My mother doesn't deserve anything. It
was her choice to keep me away from my father all those years
and deprive me of having him in my formative years. ( doesn't
matter, come to find out I was always like him even when he
wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were generalizing in
your post so I retorted doing the same. I don't totally
disagree with you but I don't totally agree either. There are
exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that.
It's "victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the
child alone. I do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a
child from the father deserves a flipping penny whe she finally
proves paternity. IF she is doing because of abuse, she needs
to PROVE it!! But the system doesn't care about anything except
the almighty dollar. To heck with a child's need to have 2
parents--only money matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know,
but it's the truth. Money is the most important thing to most
ppl anymore. Not values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is
any more important than mine or any other individual's when it
comes to the child support system. Do you, personally, think
that a woman should be able to have a child without informing the
father, raise that child for 12 years, then demand 12 years of
back child support and ongoing support? (Barring any sort of
abuse, of course) Do you think this is right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away
from the child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her
choice? Now, if the mother is prepared to allow the father
visitation and allow him to get to know his child. I think from
that point on out he should pay child support. Hard to pay for
something you didn't even know you had.

Yes, that's my take on it also. Some places, however, still charge
a man back to the birth of the child, no matter what. Other places
have recognized the unfairness of using a man as a savings account
without his knowledge, and limit the amount of time they charge
for. Some have refused to charge any arrearages at all in such
situations.

From your experience growing up without your father, I can see that
you realize first hand how important it is for a child to have his/
father in his/her life. I wish more people understood that money
will never replace a father. Nor can the hole in the father's
heart be healed by telling him "but you get to pay for all the time
you missed."

** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me
and was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat
on a 1 1/2 year old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't
want a nap. He had anxiety issues and was being medicated for about
a month. Then he quit. He promised month after month to go back but
it never happened. AFter 3 months State troppers knock on my door
because my husband was caught on surveillance cameras stealing over
1200.00 for his job.( he worked retail). I couldn't handle anymore.
I gave him an easy choice. He could forego paying support by just
signing him totally over to me. He refused. He paid child support.
He couldn't keep a job,and was constantly behind on his payments.
In over 4 years, he never once tried to see his son yet would tell
me that the name is what's important ( mind you the child knows
nothing about the family name since his father never saw him) and
that he still loves him. I never will understand my ex-husbands
philosophy on all of this. But Alas, I have remarried and Next month
we all go downtown to swear in front of the judge that my husband is
adopting my son. his father finally.. (after 7 years) realizes that
our son is better off having a father who does things with him and
takes care of him. So I guess my story DOES have a happy ending

I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father
stepped aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to
raise your child with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so long
to let go. If any child support arrearages have accrued, will you be
signing a letter of satisfaction saying that they are paid in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like
things are working out well for all of you.
** to tell you the truth, he paid up all his back arrears and is also
paying ofor the adoption. Lawyer's idea and I agree... on one hand he
could be paying the next 9 years of child support or the $1200.00 for
the adoption.. He opted for the latter.

Wait a second. You have a legal CS obligation too. How much have you
been required to pay all along? Why are you so willing to sell out
your own CS obligation? Do you really think accepting $1200 lets you
off the hook to support your child?

I don't quite understand what you are asking, Bob. April said her
child's bio father never wanted anything to do with the child, but
refused to sign away his rights. This last year, he said he would sign
away his rights and let April's husband, who has been raising the child
along with April, adopt him. He has agreed to pay the $1200 adoption
fee. Then he doesn't have to pay child support for 9 more years for a
child he has never even attempted to have a relationship with. April
has been doing her part to support her son all along.

Well she has had a pretty sweet deal. She gets CS from the child's
father (he paid all arrears, right?), has a current husband helping to
support her kid, and she doesn't even acknowledge she had any CS
obligation of her own. Her comments have indicated three adults have been
paying to support this kid, but I suspect the people supporting the kid
are the two men.

I'm asking her how much she was ordered to pay and if she paid it. If
she claims to have been providing her portion of support too then she has
one really well taken care of kid. And the adoption will reduce the
amount of support from three adults to two adults and make the kid worse
off. I suspect this is just another case where the CP mom is shuffling
dollars around and claiming she has been paying her share of CS with the
money she has been getting from two different men.
** for your information, All of the money I have gotten from the
bio-father has gone into a savings acct for him. The money was for him
and it will remain so. I have worked upwards of 3 jobs at one time to
take care of my son on my own. I have paid ALL medical bills, ALL food
bills, ALL clothing. 70.00 a week doesn't cover **** when you have a
chilld. hence why it all went into a bank acct. Perhaps , you sir,
should get your ****in facts straight before you go off in directions you
have NO comapss for.

Here are the facts. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the mean CS award
for all custodial mothers is currently $5176 per year. The average
custodial mother has 1.6 children. That means the average CS award per
child is $3235 per year, or $270 per month. Your award of $70 per week is
equal to $303 per month. This money is tax free. You have a slightly above
average CS award. You acknowledge receiving 100% of what was owed.

In addition, you are eligible to receive the Income Tax Exemption, the
Earned Income Credit, any Education Tax Credits, and use at a minimum Head
of Household filing status. These tax savings further subsidize your costs
to raise your child. Making it sound like you don't receive enough money to
support your son is not believable.

When you add your personal CS obligation into the mix you had even more
money to use to raise your son. The $70 per week you received was based on
national expenditure data reported by intact families. Consequently the
resultant CS award was calculated assuming you had custody of your son 100%
of the time. Since you report the child's bio-father has not taken an
active role in parenting, the fact is his behavior did not cost you any more
to raise your son. In essence, failing to take into account the costs of
visitation and children's expenses that travel with the children fathers are
forced to overpay their pro-rata share of the national expenditures on
children if they exercise their parenting rights.

If you are truly able to save $300 per month in your son's savings account
that is commendable. But claiming the CS received is so small it's not
worth spending on your son just doesn't sound right given the national
statistics on CS.

"April" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...
** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to
me and was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't
beat on a 1 1/2 year old because he won't stop crying because he
doesn't want a nap. He had anxiety issues and was being medicated
for about a month. Then he quit. He promised month after month to
go back but it never happened. AFter 3 months State troppers knock
on my door because my husband was caught on surveillance cameras
stealing over 1200.00 for his job.( he worked retail). I couldn't
handle anymore. I gave him an easy choice. He could forego paying
support by just signing him totally over to me. He refused. He
paid child support. He couldn't keep a job,and was constantly
behind on his payments. In over 4 years, he never once tried to
see his son yet would tell me that the name is what's important
( mind you the child knows nothing about the family name since his
father never saw him) and that he still loves him. I never will
understand my ex-husbands philosophy on all of this. But Alas, I
have remarried and Next month we all go downtown to swear in front
of the judge that my husband is adopting my son. his father
finally.. (after 7 years) realizes that our son is better off
having a father who does things with him and takes care of him.
So I guess my story DOES have a happy ending

I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father
stepped aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to
raise your child with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so
long to let go. If any child support arrearages have accrued, will
you be signing a letter of satisfaction saying that they are paid
in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like
things are working out well for all of you.
** to tell you the truth, he paid up all his back arrears and is
also paying ofor the adoption. Lawyer's idea and I agree... on one
hand he could be paying the next 9 years of child support or the
$1200.00 for the adoption.. He opted for the latter.

Wait a second. You have a legal CS obligation too. How much have
you been required to pay all along? Why are you so willing to sell
out your own CS obligation? Do you really think accepting $1200 lets
you off the hook to support your child?
** afraid I'm not following what you are saying.

In the majority of states CS orders detail the CP's obligation, the
NCP's obligation, and the total obligation. Your comments have focused
only on the NCP's CS obligation and have totally ignored what the
impact will be on your CS obligation. In fact, your comments have
suggested you don't recognize your portion of the existing court
ordered CS obligation.

By accepting the $1,200 to pay for an adoption you are taking a payoff
to get out from under your court ordered CS obligation. The net legal
affect will be for both the CP's and NCP's legal CS obligation to go
away. The result will be the obligation to support the child will no
longer be controlled by the state/courts.

So my questions are - How much have you been ordered to pay? Have you
been providing it? How do you plan to handle any CS arrearage amounts
from the NCP?

** I am the childs mother, I have provided a hell of alot more
financially and emotionally then his bio-father has. I have paid my due
and will continue the rest of my life. My husband wants to adopt my
son. My son is thrilled with the idea and cannot wait. The Bio-father
has realized he hasn't been and doesn't care to perform any obligations
where his son is concerned. And that is fine. My son has someone who
does and has been. What's soo wrong about that? What is soo wrong to
have all arrears paid up and the adoption paid for so that my son can be
in a family that cares about him and his well being? This isn't Ebay..
I'm not looking for the best deal.. I'm looking for the real thing.

I asked three simple, straightforward questions. Not one was answered in
what is posted above. Why are you dodging the questions?

** #1 I have been ordered to pay NOTHING I had sole custody. Noone had
to "ORDER" me to pay anything for my son.. I did so for HIM.
#2 I provided more for him than his father ever could. A hell of alot more
than $70.00 a week.
#3 I owe no arrears for my son. He is happy and healthy.

now, here are MY questions....
#1 who the **** do you think you are to come on here and insinuate that
*I* have done NOTHING to provide and make my son happy?

Unless you live in one of the 12 states that use a percentage of obligor
income CS calculation methodology, you have a court ordered CS amount the
court expects you to provide. Thirty-nine states use both parents incomes
to calculate CS awards and use a pro-rata basis to split the obligation
between the parents. The odds make it likely you have a court ordered CS
obligation. All I asked was how much is your obligation and have you paid
it.

#2 Who the **** do you think you are to come on here and tell me *I* owe
for my son? You have NO IDEA what my son and I have been thru without ANY
help from ANY man.

See above. And more specifically, if your ex-husband has paid all of his CS
obligation including any arrears, I suggest you have had help from a man.

#3 How can you sit there and expect me to OWE my ex-husband ( who in case
you forgot was abusive) a ****ing penny?

You don't owe your ex-husband anything financially. But by getting divorced
you turned the decision making for how your child will be provided for over
to the state. Some states, like mine, have laws allowing the NCP to ask for
an accounting of how CS ordered has been spent at any time. That accounting
includes the CS money both parents are ordered to provide for the child's
care and maintenance.

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:30:34 -0700, "Bob Whiteside"
wrote:



I asked three simple, straightforward questions. Not one was answered in
what is posted above. Why are you dodging the questions?

Rhetorical question IMO!

A jury is 12 individuals who decides who has the best lawyer.
- Mark Twain

On Jul 19, 12:53 pm, wrote:
On Jul 16, 1:25 am, "teachrmama" wrote:



"Avenger" wrote in message

news:SXBmi.4020$fj5.590@trnddc08...

teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote in
messagenews:n9dl93hmsada667t1sf6pjgvpnqpr1t3hp@4ax .com...
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 22:46:06 GMT, "Avenger"
wrote:

What probably happened in this case is that he didn't have any money 20
years ago which is why the bitch didn't go after him before, and may
have
only made or come into some recently. The sneaky bitch found out about
it
and in her greed tried to get her hands on it. But why would she need it
now? The kid is grown, so obviously they survived and had the money to
survive. Besides, what's a 40 yo bitch doing having a kid anyway and
ruining
the best years of a man's life when he should be enjoying his youth.Well
one
good thing about this is at least he won't have to pay the money and
will
have plenty to spend in prison )

He wouldn't pay 200 a month to help support his own child?

Was there a DNA test? Was none 20 years ago so this Ho may be lying. In
80%
of these cases the man isn't even the father.

Maybe he didn't have it at the time. Who knows? The best I've been able
to find out is that they were never married, and that the woman refused
to let him have a relationship with the child. I haven't been able to
find out when the order was issued, whether or not it was ongoing support
from the birth of the child, or support assigned when the child was 15,
and ordered back to the birth of the child, leaving him at the starting
gate with a staggering arrearage. The most I've found is that the child
was born sometime in the 80s, maybe. I would certainly like to know way
more about this story. As the wife of a man-who-
found-out-he-had-a-child-just-before-said-child-turned-13, I can tell you
that the blow to ones financial well-being is substantial. And my
husband, due to current laws, only had to pay 2 years of instant
arrearages. It used to be that arrearages were assigned back to the
birth of the child, including pregnancy and birth expenses--well padded,
of course.

Why would a man have to pay birth expenses lol

Ya got me, but that is tacked nicely onto child support orders! When the
first "you owe child support" order came in, the arrearages were staggering,
and included pregnancy and birth expenses. He requested a paternity test,
got the blood drawn, and she refused to bring the child in for the test.
After more than a year of trying to force her to do so, the judge finally
dismissed the case. Several years later, the next demand for child support
came in (same mom, same kid, different state), he again requested proof of
paternity and took the blood test. This time mom took the kid in for the
test, and he was the father. (The child was almost 13 by this time) But the
law, by this point in time, only permitted arrearages to be assessestwo
years back from proof of paternity

I don't think there should be any arrearages in that situation
whatsoever.

It's simple. As a mother, if you want child support, then find the
father. It's not that hard, especially given that the government will
use its resources to find him for you. If you choose not to, then you
don't get the support. You shouldn't get to show up 5 years later,
having completely deprived the father of any chance at a relationship
with his child, and then demand full financial support for the whole
time you were keeping the kid from him. And even the woman honestly
doesn't know who the father is, that doesn't change anything. I mean,
if you're so irresponsible that you don't even know who the father of
your children is, and don't figure it out until 5 or 10 years later,
then tough luck.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

I feel like fathers should be able to request receipts and/or an
itemized accounting of how their money is spent to be sure that the
child really is getting the support money and the woman isn't just
using it to get herself some new shoes. Why does the mother get
government agencies to force the father to pay "in the interests of
the child" and then there is absolutely no accounting to make that
she's even serving the interests of the child at all? Seems
completely unfair to me. But I suppose that's another subject.

I agree with you about the timeliness factor.

But the first thing I would have put on my accounting list - to my X -
would have been "babysitting" and "practical nursing care" - in his
absence. Since he did not have any custody of them to speak of (he
was supposed to have then 25% of the time, but wished not to), he
needed (all along) to compensate me for their care. He wanted those
kids as much as I did - and he decided childcare wasn't his gig (at
all). Well, it's hard work. In fact, just the bills for the nursing
care spent on injuries acquired while in his custody (accidents and so
forth) - at the rates that visiting nurses provide for round-the-clock
care would have averaged out to a good chunk of change, annually.

He provided no services to the children. I'm a professional who
charges an hourly rate (so is he). Had I charged him half my hourly
rate (he's still family), he would have had to pay way more in CS than
he did.

In other words - that money isn't about stuff or shoes. It's about a
caretaker cutting down on other sources of money in order to provide
topnotch care for children - at least that's how I see it. A woman
who isn't providing care for the kids shouldn't be using the money to
buy shoes.

But, taxiing the kids to private school, tutoring them from time to
time, taking them to the doctor (the MediVan chsrges $20 one way to go
to the doctor - our daughters went for allergy treatments 2X a week
each - that's $160 per week right there, had he wanted to purchase
that service on the open market).

Or - he could have provided some of those services himself. It was
way, way cheaper to pay me to do it. One view is that he needed to
either care for them half the time - or compensate me for my time for
doing so. For example, I had to have medical treatments myself
(surgery) and had to hire childcare for the kids while I went for
MRI's and X-rays. What my X signed onto - when he married me and when
he said he wanted kids - was supporting me and helping me, the mother
of his kids.

Fortunately, my X was of the same mind as I was about this - he knew
his limitations in terms of actually being around the tots or caring
for them in the middle of the night - and he knew he'd have had to
hire someone to take them his 25% had he chosen to exercise his
custodial rights. Since he didn't have to pay a penny more (one way
or another) to me, regardless of how many hours I had the kids, it was
a good deal for him. It worked out to minimum wage or less (after
deducting, of course, the kids' share of the rent, utilities,
clothing, etc.) I always felt (just as the CS order stated) that we
were to share those things 50/50 - but it was never he who went and
bought the presents at Christmas time or procured the birthday party
favors or the cake - or any of that. Merely paying half the cost of
getting that stuff is not the point.

A.