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#1
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Good or bad advice given?
For me, I thought this wasn't good advice at all. I wanted to know what
others thought! Last night, around 1am, off I go to the 24h pharmacy, taking DD2 with me. She's 12 weeks now, and for the last week or so, she's been quite difficult, to say the least, come evening. Around 9pm or so daily, she gets impossible. She screams and screams. Believe me, I've tried nearly everything - playing, talking, singing, swaddling, rocking, changing diaper, burping, bathing, walking to the store, feeding - whatever, I feel like I've tried it all, and it's only been the last week or so. There's not a tear in her eye, and from about 9ish to around 1am, it's quite difficult. She's fine all day with sleeping and alert times. In the evening, though, she gets her time and she'll scream for a good 20 minutes and then out of nowhere she just seems to snap out of it and will either sit and smile, coo, whatever or just sleep but that lasts about 10 minutes. It's just like a vicious (difficult) cycle. Ok, so last night around 1am, she's up to the same thing. I pack her up to take her for a car ride, thinking that this might help as she seems to like the car. I thought I'd go down to the 24h pharmacy not too far away and see about either some gripe water or Ovol or something. I found gripe water didn't work, my ped said he didn't believe it worked, and again, I'll tell you it did not work for DS years ago! I'm at the point now where I'm willing to try anything. I'm talking to the pharmacist and he tells me that no, I can't use both Ovol and gripe water at the same time - one or the other. He recommended, at DD2's age, Ovol and not the gripe water. I started talking to him a bit about what happens and goes on. How DD2 at night gets like this. Yes, she's definitely eating enough, but she's always been one to spit up a bit after feedings, and it comes out right after just how it goes in, normally, and right as she's eating. She doesn't seem to want to eat more after spitting up. I told him in the evening, however, like last night, she had 2 dirty diapers right in a row. I changed her and about half an hour later she dirties another diaper. She also, come night time, seems to puke up - days she spits up, evenings it's more like puke. It's more thick white looking and maybe even slightly chunky. Best I described it to him was that it was almost like cottage cheese without the curds mixed with some plain child's white glue (but not quite that thick) He then told me that it sounds like she can't digest the milk. I said there's never been a problem up until about a week or so ago, and I haven't changed my diet, by any means, nor have I changed hers. She's yet to have any type of baby cereals, other milk or formula, and as far as that goes, I'll start cereals when I feel she's ready for it (ped said definitely NOT before 3m of age) and she'll have regular cow's milk when she a) is at least a year old AND b) has decided to wean and I will not give her formula at all (unless, of course, there's something drastic that changes or something - maybe I get hit by a car and DH has to feed the baby and I can't pump or whatever...) So, the pharmacist says it sounds like she can't digest the milk which is why it's more like baby milk puke and not spit up milk. He said that it sounds like I should be calling the ped, as he was thinking I should probably switch to a formula. I said I was not interested in changing to any other form of milk. That suggestion, actually, caught me fairly off guard. Isn't formula a little harder on a baby's stomach than BM? ESPECIALLY if a baby's stomach has had only bm since day 1 and nothing else? Wouldn't up and switching to formula be the worst thing to do? Now, just in case it comes up, I really do feel that the pharmacist was trying to be helpful. I really don't believe he was outwardly trying to give me bad advice, nor do I believe that he was against nursing and trying to push his beliefs/values/ideas/whatever on me. I do, however, feel that he *might* have just been uneducated on breastfeeding, possibly, and was just trying to give the best advice he had. Any comments? Ideas? Suggestions? (on anything?) |
#2
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Good or bad advice given?
It's BAD advice. I'm sure he's well-meaning, but he doesn't know what he's talking about. If everything's been fine up till now and you haven't made any changes, then it can't be your milk. And even if it were your milk, there'd be a lot of other things to try before formula! It sounds like typical colicky behavior that she will probably just grow out of. I don't know what Ovol is--is that something like Mylicon (anti-gas drops)? If it is, I certainly used that and gripe water at the same time. Whether it helped or not I really don't know but at least it made me feel like I was doing something! I don't know that it's helpful, but all my babies have had these inexplicable crying fits from time to time. Just when I'd think I couldn't stand it, it would stop. :-) Leslie |
#3
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Good or bad advice given?
Around 9pm or so daily, she gets impossible. She screams and screams. Believe me, I've tried nearly everything - playing, talking, singing, swaddling, rocking, changing diaper, burping, bathing, walking to the store, feeding - whatever, I feel like I've tried it all, and it's only been the last week or so. There's not a tear in her eye, and from about 9ish to around 1am, it's quite difficult. She's fine all day with sleeping and alert times. In the evening, though, she gets her time and she'll scream for a good 20 minutes and then out of nowhere she just seems to snap out of it and will either sit and smile, coo, whatever or just sleep but that lasts about 10 minutes. This sounds like classic colicky behavior. I'm sure the pharmacist was just trying to help but didn't give good advice. Switching her to formula will not help and possibly make things much worse. Tincture of time is the best remedy. |
#4
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Good or bad advice given?
rarely, a baby cannot digest milk and it's the fundamental proteins in the
milk, not exposure to dairy through the mums milk, in that case, you really are a bit stuck and you have to go a formula not made from milk, not usually even made from soy, it's ridiculously expensive and you'd, probably want to get it on prescription (may even have to), but that is rare, and unlikely to develop suddenly, she'd likely have not been thriving from birth if that was the case. The sick you describe sounds to me as if it's what happens if they don't spit up straight away and it gets partially digested, ideally that doesn't happen very often because if they need to burp and can't manage it, then you help them and so on, but sometimes it happens several feeds on the trot and it's really frustrating. I have to say, I would take her to get her checked out, this sudden change in behaviour could be something like an ear infection and it's better to get the all clear, than to assume it's behavioural. FWIW, I think this pharmacist just isn't particularly pro breastfeeding and whilst in some areas they can be a source of knowledge, I don't think this is one of them! Anne |
#5
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Good or bad advice given?
xkatx wrote: For me, I thought this wasn't good advice at all. I wanted to know what others thought! Last night, around 1am, off I go to the 24h pharmacy, taking DD2 with me. She's 12 weeks now, and for the last week or so, she's been quite difficult, to say the least, come evening. Around 9pm or so daily, she gets impossible. She screams and screams. Believe me, I've tried nearly everything - playing, talking, singing, swaddling, rocking, changing diaper, burping, bathing, walking to the store, feeding - whatever, I feel like I've tried it all, and it's only been the last week or so. There's not a tear in her eye, and from about 9ish to around 1am, it's quite difficult. She's fine all day with sleeping and alert times. In the evening, though, she gets her time and she'll scream for a good 20 minutes and then out of nowhere she just seems to snap out of it and will either sit and smile, coo, whatever or just sleep but that lasts about 10 minutes. It's just like a vicious (difficult) cycle. Ok, so last night around 1am, she's up to the same thing. I pack her up to take her for a car ride, thinking that this might help as she seems to like the car. I thought I'd go down to the 24h pharmacy not too far away and see about either some gripe water or Ovol or something. I found gripe water didn't work, my ped said he didn't believe it worked, and again, I'll tell you it did not work for DS years ago! I'm at the point now where I'm willing to try anything. I'm talking to the pharmacist and he tells me that no, I can't use both Ovol and gripe water at the same time - one or the other. He recommended, at DD2's age, Ovol and not the gripe water. I started talking to him a bit about what happens and goes on. How DD2 at night gets like this. Yes, she's definitely eating enough, but she's always been one to spit up a bit after feedings, and it comes out right after just how it goes in, normally, and right as she's eating. She doesn't seem to want to eat more after spitting up. I told him in the evening, however, like last night, she had 2 dirty diapers right in a row. I changed her and about half an hour later she dirties another diaper. She also, come night time, seems to puke up - days she spits up, evenings it's more like puke. It's more thick white looking and maybe even slightly chunky. Best I described it to him was that it was almost like cottage cheese without the curds mixed with some plain child's white glue (but not quite that thick) What you described is exactly what DD started doing around week 6 and lasted until week 8. My otherwise perfect baby turned into a screaming hellion every night. Now, she had never thrown up/spit up before, but started to then - not as often as you describe though. I was sure it was a dairy allergy and was about to start cutting all dairy out of my diet but everyone here convinced me it was normal . Honestly I think the screamingmade her throw up. I'd still check with your pedi, but it does sound like colic. He then told me that it sounds like she can't digest the milk. I said there's never been a problem up until about a week or so ago, and I haven't changed my diet, by any means, nor have I changed hers. She's yet to have any type of baby cereals, other milk or formula, and as far as that goes, I'll start cereals when I feel she's ready for it (ped said definitely NOT before 3m of age) and she'll have regular cow's milk when she a) is at least a year old AND b) has decided to wean and I will not give her formula at all (unless, of course, there's something drastic that changes or something - maybe I get hit by a car and DH has to feed the baby and I can't pump or whatever...) So, the pharmacist says it sounds like she can't digest the milk which is why it's more like baby milk puke and not spit up milk. He said that it sounds like I should be calling the ped, as he was thinking I should probably switch to a formula. I said I was not interested in changing to any other form of milk. That suggestion, actually, caught me fairly off guard. Isn't formula a little harder on a baby's stomach than BM? ESPECIALLY if a baby's stomach has had only bm since day 1 and nothing else? Wouldn't up and switching to formula be the worst thing to do? Now, just in case it comes up, I really do feel that the pharmacist was trying to be helpful. I really don't believe he was outwardly trying to give me bad advice, nor do I believe that he was against nursing and trying to push his beliefs/values/ideas/whatever on me. I do, however, feel that he *might* have just been uneducated on breastfeeding, possibly, and was just trying to give the best advice he had. Any comments? Ideas? Suggestions? (on anything?) As for the pharmacist, he was trying to be helpful but probably isn't that knowledgeable about BF. That said, on another chat group, many moms have said their pedis told them to go on formula due to reflux issues. Having had no experience there, I can't comment. I'd talk to your pedi - is he/she supportive of BF? If not,find one who is. That was important to me from the start, because if we had issues I didn't want the pedi to push formula. |
#6
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Good or bad advice given?
Anne Rogers wrote: The sick you describe sounds to me as if it's what happens if they don't spit up straight away and it gets partially digested, ideally that doesn't happen very often because if they need to burp and can't manage it, then you help them and so on, but sometimes it happens several feeds on the trot and it's really frustrating. Sounds exactly as ds was. He was a very sicky baby, milky vomit straight after feeds and cottage cheese up to a few hours after. He was like that for the whole 6 mths until he started solids, at which time it pretty much stopped. He was bf up to 15 and a half months - so as far as I can tell it wasn't the bm that was the problem, it was just his guts. He had bad colic for 3 mths and I suspect it's all linked together. Jeni |
#7
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Good or bad advice given?
"cjra" wrote in message oups.com... xkatx wrote: For me, I thought this wasn't good advice at all. I wanted to know what others thought! Last night, around 1am, off I go to the 24h pharmacy, taking DD2 with me. She's 12 weeks now, and for the last week or so, she's been quite difficult, to say the least, come evening. Around 9pm or so daily, she gets impossible. She screams and screams. Believe me, I've tried nearly everything - playing, talking, singing, swaddling, rocking, changing diaper, burping, bathing, walking to the store, feeding - whatever, I feel like I've tried it all, and it's only been the last week or so. There's not a tear in her eye, and from about 9ish to around 1am, it's quite difficult. She's fine all day with sleeping and alert times. In the evening, though, she gets her time and she'll scream for a good 20 minutes and then out of nowhere she just seems to snap out of it and will either sit and smile, coo, whatever or just sleep but that lasts about 10 minutes. It's just like a vicious (difficult) cycle. Ok, so last night around 1am, she's up to the same thing. I pack her up to take her for a car ride, thinking that this might help as she seems to like the car. I thought I'd go down to the 24h pharmacy not too far away and see about either some gripe water or Ovol or something. I found gripe water didn't work, my ped said he didn't believe it worked, and again, I'll tell you it did not work for DS years ago! I'm at the point now where I'm willing to try anything. I'm talking to the pharmacist and he tells me that no, I can't use both Ovol and gripe water at the same time - one or the other. He recommended, at DD2's age, Ovol and not the gripe water. I started talking to him a bit about what happens and goes on. How DD2 at night gets like this. Yes, she's definitely eating enough, but she's always been one to spit up a bit after feedings, and it comes out right after just how it goes in, normally, and right as she's eating. She doesn't seem to want to eat more after spitting up. I told him in the evening, however, like last night, she had 2 dirty diapers right in a row. I changed her and about half an hour later she dirties another diaper. She also, come night time, seems to puke up - days she spits up, evenings it's more like puke. It's more thick white looking and maybe even slightly chunky. Best I described it to him was that it was almost like cottage cheese without the curds mixed with some plain child's white glue (but not quite that thick) What you described is exactly what DD started doing around week 6 and lasted until week 8. My otherwise perfect baby turned into a screaming hellion every night. Now, she had never thrown up/spit up before, but started to then - not as often as you describe though. I was sure it was a dairy allergy and was about to start cutting all dairy out of my diet but everyone here convinced me it was normal . Honestly I think the screamingmade her throw up. I'd still check with your pedi, but it does sound like colic. DS had baaad colic. I was nearly crying at his 6 week checkup because he'd just cry and cry and scream every evening at the same time, for the same length of time! My ped assured me there was nothing I could do, really, and that it would stop by 3 months of age. DS, the little brat he was, seemed to have just up and stopped out of nowhere, and yes, IIRC, he was almost 3 months exactly to the day! He then told me that it sounds like she can't digest the milk. I said there's never been a problem up until about a week or so ago, and I haven't changed my diet, by any means, nor have I changed hers. She's yet to have any type of baby cereals, other milk or formula, and as far as that goes, I'll start cereals when I feel she's ready for it (ped said definitely NOT before 3m of age) and she'll have regular cow's milk when she a) is at least a year old AND b) has decided to wean and I will not give her formula at all (unless, of course, there's something drastic that changes or something - maybe I get hit by a car and DH has to feed the baby and I can't pump or whatever...) So, the pharmacist says it sounds like she can't digest the milk which is why it's more like baby milk puke and not spit up milk. He said that it sounds like I should be calling the ped, as he was thinking I should probably switch to a formula. I said I was not interested in changing to any other form of milk. That suggestion, actually, caught me fairly off guard. Isn't formula a little harder on a baby's stomach than BM? ESPECIALLY if a baby's stomach has had only bm since day 1 and nothing else? Wouldn't up and switching to formula be the worst thing to do? Now, just in case it comes up, I really do feel that the pharmacist was trying to be helpful. I really don't believe he was outwardly trying to give me bad advice, nor do I believe that he was against nursing and trying to push his beliefs/values/ideas/whatever on me. I do, however, feel that he *might* have just been uneducated on breastfeeding, possibly, and was just trying to give the best advice he had. Any comments? Ideas? Suggestions? (on anything?) As for the pharmacist, he was trying to be helpful but probably isn't that knowledgeable about BF. That said, on another chat group, many moms have said their pedis told them to go on formula due to reflux issues. Having had no experience there, I can't comment. I'd talk to your pedi - is he/she supportive of BF? If not,find one who is. That was important to me from the start, because if we had issues I didn't want the pedi to push formula. The kids' doc is fantastic. I just love him. He's a huge supporter of breastfeeding, and the other doc in his office actually runs the breastfeeding clinic in the city. If DD2's horrid nights continue over the weekend, I'll be calling first thing Monday morning... |
#8
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Good or bad advice given?
Have you kept a journal of your foods? I have to wonder if he's
sensitive to something in your diet. I know how completely thorough you are -- so I hesitate even saying this. But I know that Lily (my 13 month old) was/is allergic to cow. So sensitive was she that I couldn't even eat beef for a long time. Cow allergy is quite common. It isn't that your baby might be allergic (sensitive or whatever) to lactose -- human milk has more lactose than any other mammal and a baby not being able to digest lactose is extremely rare. Anyway, I remember when Lily was having a very hard time... spitting up more than she ate, it would seem anyway. Once I completely cut out dairy (it was a learning curve since I didn't realize which ingredients to look for), she was fine. She rarely spit up, quite honestly. Do you have a sling? Honest to goodness, Lily was usually very consolable by a sling. It seemed that the pressure of the sling against her spine helped her relax. Another tidbit is to put a cup of chamomile tea in the bath. That always soothed Lily... and still does. HTH!!! Misti Oh, that was horrid advice, or course. The other ladies are right on! I don't chalk it up to 'he meant well' though. I'm much more cynical than that!! |
#9
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Good or bad advice given?
Sorry for top posting.... but it sounds like bad advice to me. ... and to
be fair, most pharmacists (and Drs) seem a) to know squat-all about breastfeeding, breastmilk and it being a living substance that nobody completely understands and b) seem very keen to "prescribe" something they know the chemical make-up of (like formula). For the record, both DD (4 y) and DS (2y) both did humungous spews on occasion (they normal would posset a little at each feed, but these were different - vast quantities and explosive spewing). With DD I worked out that it only happened after I'd eaten chilli (even capsicum) but never worked it out with DS despite keeping a food diary for a while. They both grew out of it So unless DD isn't gaining weight or having plenty of wet nappies each day, I wouldn't switch to formula. Maybe keep a food diary just to see if its anything obvious in your diet. You've got much better control on that than what goes into artificial breast milk. My 2c Amanda "xkatx" wrote in message news:w6Nrh.165611$hn.36376@edtnps82... For me, I thought this wasn't good advice at all. I wanted to know what others thought! Last night, around 1am, off I go to the 24h pharmacy, taking DD2 with me. She's 12 weeks now, and for the last week or so, she's been quite difficult, to say the least, come evening. Around 9pm or so daily, she gets impossible. She screams and screams. Believe me, I've tried nearly everything - playing, talking, singing, swaddling, rocking, changing diaper, burping, bathing, walking to the store, feeding - whatever, I feel like I've tried it all, and it's only been the last week or so. There's not a tear in her eye, and from about 9ish to around 1am, it's quite difficult. She's fine all day with sleeping and alert times. In the evening, though, she gets her time and she'll scream for a good 20 minutes and then out of nowhere she just seems to snap out of it and will either sit and smile, coo, whatever or just sleep but that lasts about 10 minutes. It's just like a vicious (difficult) cycle. Ok, so last night around 1am, she's up to the same thing. I pack her up to take her for a car ride, thinking that this might help as she seems to like the car. I thought I'd go down to the 24h pharmacy not too far away and see about either some gripe water or Ovol or something. I found gripe water didn't work, my ped said he didn't believe it worked, and again, I'll tell you it did not work for DS years ago! I'm at the point now where I'm willing to try anything. I'm talking to the pharmacist and he tells me that no, I can't use both Ovol and gripe water at the same time - one or the other. He recommended, at DD2's age, Ovol and not the gripe water. I started talking to him a bit about what happens and goes on. How DD2 at night gets like this. Yes, she's definitely eating enough, but she's always been one to spit up a bit after feedings, and it comes out right after just how it goes in, normally, and right as she's eating. She doesn't seem to want to eat more after spitting up. I told him in the evening, however, like last night, she had 2 dirty diapers right in a row. I changed her and about half an hour later she dirties another diaper. She also, come night time, seems to puke up - days she spits up, evenings it's more like puke. It's more thick white looking and maybe even slightly chunky. Best I described it to him was that it was almost like cottage cheese without the curds mixed with some plain child's white glue (but not quite that thick) He then told me that it sounds like she can't digest the milk. I said there's never been a problem up until about a week or so ago, and I haven't changed my diet, by any means, nor have I changed hers. She's yet to have any type of baby cereals, other milk or formula, and as far as that goes, I'll start cereals when I feel she's ready for it (ped said definitely NOT before 3m of age) and she'll have regular cow's milk when she a) is at least a year old AND b) has decided to wean and I will not give her formula at all (unless, of course, there's something drastic that changes or something - maybe I get hit by a car and DH has to feed the baby and I can't pump or whatever...) So, the pharmacist says it sounds like she can't digest the milk which is why it's more like baby milk puke and not spit up milk. He said that it sounds like I should be calling the ped, as he was thinking I should probably switch to a formula. I said I was not interested in changing to any other form of milk. That suggestion, actually, caught me fairly off guard. Isn't formula a little harder on a baby's stomach than BM? ESPECIALLY if a baby's stomach has had only bm since day 1 and nothing else? Wouldn't up and switching to formula be the worst thing to do? Now, just in case it comes up, I really do feel that the pharmacist was trying to be helpful. I really don't believe he was outwardly trying to give me bad advice, nor do I believe that he was against nursing and trying to push his beliefs/values/ideas/whatever on me. I do, however, feel that he *might* have just been uneducated on breastfeeding, possibly, and was just trying to give the best advice he had. Any comments? Ideas? Suggestions? (on anything?) |
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