Good or bad advice given?

For me, I thought this wasn't good advice at all. I wanted to know what
others thought!

Last night, around 1am, off I go to the 24h pharmacy, taking DD2 with me.
She's 12 weeks now, and for the last week or so, she's been quite difficult,
to say the least, come evening.

Around 9pm or so daily, she gets impossible. She screams and screams.
Believe me, I've tried nearly everything - playing, talking, singing,
swaddling, rocking, changing diaper, burping, bathing, walking to the store,
feeding - whatever, I feel like I've tried it all, and it's only been the
last week or so. There's not a tear in her eye, and from about 9ish to
around 1am, it's quite difficult. She's fine all day with sleeping and
alert times. In the evening, though, she gets her time and she'll scream
for a good 20 minutes and then out of nowhere she just seems to snap out of
it and will either sit and smile, coo, whatever or just sleep but that lasts
about 10 minutes. It's just like a vicious (difficult) cycle.

Ok, so last night around 1am, she's up to the same thing. I pack her up to
take her for a car ride, thinking that this might help as she seems to like
the car. I thought I'd go down to the 24h pharmacy not too far away and see
about either some gripe water or Ovol or something. I found gripe water
didn't work, my ped said he didn't believe it worked, and again, I'll tell
you it did not work for DS years ago! I'm at the point now where I'm
willing to try anything.

I'm talking to the pharmacist and he tells me that no, I can't use both Ovol
and gripe water at the same time - one or the other. He recommended, at
DD2's age, Ovol and not the gripe water. I started talking to him a bit
about what happens and goes on. How DD2 at night gets like this. Yes,
she's definitely eating enough, but she's always been one to spit up a bit
after feedings, and it comes out right after just how it goes in, normally,
and right as she's eating. She doesn't seem to want to eat more after
spitting up. I told him in the evening, however, like last night, she had 2
dirty diapers right in a row. I changed her and about half an hour later
she dirties another diaper. She also, come night time, seems to puke up -
days she spits up, evenings it's more like puke. It's more thick white
looking and maybe even slightly chunky. Best I described it to him was that
it was almost like cottage cheese without the curds mixed with some plain
child's white glue (but not quite that thick)

He then told me that it sounds like she can't digest the milk. I said
there's never been a problem up until about a week or so ago, and I haven't
changed my diet, by any means, nor have I changed hers. She's yet to have
any type of baby cereals, other milk or formula, and as far as that goes,
I'll start cereals when I feel she's ready for it (ped said definitely NOT
before 3m of age) and she'll have regular cow's milk when she a) is at least
a year old AND b) has decided to wean and I will not give her formula at all
(unless, of course, there's something drastic that changes or something -
maybe I get hit by a car and DH has to feed the baby and I can't pump or
whatever...)

So, the pharmacist says it sounds like she can't digest the milk which is
why it's more like baby milk puke and not spit up milk. He said that it
sounds like I should be calling the ped, as he was thinking I should
probably switch to a formula. I said I was not interested in changing to
any other form of milk. That suggestion, actually, caught me fairly off
guard. Isn't formula a little harder on a baby's stomach than BM?
ESPECIALLY if a baby's stomach has had only bm since day 1 and nothing else?
Wouldn't up and switching to formula be the worst thing to do?

Now, just in case it comes up, I really do feel that the pharmacist was
trying to be helpful. I really don't believe he was outwardly trying to
give me bad advice, nor do I believe that he was against nursing and trying
to push his beliefs/values/ideas/whatever on me. I do, however, feel that
he *might* have just been uneducated on breastfeeding, possibly, and was
just trying to give the best advice he had.

Any comments? Ideas? Suggestions? (on anything?)

It's BAD advice. I'm sure he's well-meaning, but he doesn't know what
he's talking about. If everything's been fine up till now and you
haven't made any changes, then it can't be your milk. And even if it
were your milk, there'd be a lot of other things to try before formula!

It sounds like typical colicky behavior that she will probably just
grow out of. I don't know what Ovol is--is that something like Mylicon
(anti-gas drops)? If it is, I certainly used that and gripe water at
the same time. Whether it helped or not I really don't know but at
least it made me feel like I was doing something!

I don't know that it's helpful, but all my babies have had these
inexplicable crying fits from time to time. Just when I'd think I
couldn't stand it, it would stop. :-)

Leslie

Around 9pm or so daily, she gets impossible. She screams and screams.
Believe me, I've tried nearly everything - playing, talking, singing,
swaddling, rocking, changing diaper, burping, bathing, walking to the store,
feeding - whatever, I feel like I've tried it all, and it's only been the
last week or so. There's not a tear in her eye, and from about 9ish to
around 1am, it's quite difficult. She's fine all day with sleeping and
alert times. In the evening, though, she gets her time and she'll scream
for a good 20 minutes and then out of nowhere she just seems to snap out of
it and will either sit and smile, coo, whatever or just sleep but that lasts
about 10 minutes.

This sounds like classic colicky behavior. I'm sure the pharmacist was
just trying to help but
didn't give good advice. Switching her to formula will not help and
possibly make things much worse.
Tincture of time is the best remedy.

rarely, a baby cannot digest milk and it's the fundamental proteins in the
milk, not exposure to dairy through the mums milk, in that case, you really
are a bit stuck and you have to go a formula not made from milk, not usually
even made from soy, it's ridiculously expensive and you'd, probably want to
get it on prescription (may even have to), but that is rare, and unlikely to
develop suddenly, she'd likely have not been thriving from birth if that was
the case.

The sick you describe sounds to me as if it's what happens if they don't
spit up straight away and it gets partially digested, ideally that doesn't
happen very often because if they need to burp and can't manage it, then you
help them and so on, but sometimes it happens several feeds on the trot and
it's really frustrating.

I have to say, I would take her to get her checked out, this sudden change
in behaviour could be something like an ear infection and it's better to get
the all clear, than to assume it's behavioural.

FWIW, I think this pharmacist just isn't particularly pro breastfeeding and
whilst in some areas they can be a source of knowledge, I don't think this
is one of them!

Anne

xkatx wrote:
For me, I thought this wasn't good advice at all. I wanted to know what
others thought!

Last night, around 1am, off I go to the 24h pharmacy, taking DD2 with me.
She's 12 weeks now, and for the last week or so, she's been quite difficult,
to say the least, come evening.

Around 9pm or so daily, she gets impossible. She screams and screams.
Believe me, I've tried nearly everything - playing, talking, singing,
swaddling, rocking, changing diaper, burping, bathing, walking to the store,
feeding - whatever, I feel like I've tried it all, and it's only been the
last week or so. There's not a tear in her eye, and from about 9ish to
around 1am, it's quite difficult. She's fine all day with sleeping and
alert times. In the evening, though, she gets her time and she'll scream
for a good 20 minutes and then out of nowhere she just seems to snap out of
it and will either sit and smile, coo, whatever or just sleep but that lasts
about 10 minutes. It's just like a vicious (difficult) cycle.

Ok, so last night around 1am, she's up to the same thing. I pack her up to
take her for a car ride, thinking that this might help as she seems to like
the car. I thought I'd go down to the 24h pharmacy not too far away and see
about either some gripe water or Ovol or something. I found gripe water
didn't work, my ped said he didn't believe it worked, and again, I'll tell
you it did not work for DS years ago! I'm at the point now where I'm
willing to try anything.

I'm talking to the pharmacist and he tells me that no, I can't use both Ovol
and gripe water at the same time - one or the other. He recommended, at
DD2's age, Ovol and not the gripe water. I started talking to him a bit
about what happens and goes on. How DD2 at night gets like this. Yes,
she's definitely eating enough, but she's always been one to spit up a bit
after feedings, and it comes out right after just how it goes in, normally,
and right as she's eating. She doesn't seem to want to eat more after
spitting up. I told him in the evening, however, like last night, she had 2
dirty diapers right in a row. I changed her and about half an hour later
she dirties another diaper. She also, come night time, seems to puke up -
days she spits up, evenings it's more like puke. It's more thick white
looking and maybe even slightly chunky. Best I described it to him was that
it was almost like cottage cheese without the curds mixed with some plain
child's white glue (but not quite that thick)

What you described is exactly what DD started doing around week 6 and
lasted until week 8. My otherwise perfect baby turned into a screaming
hellion every night. Now, she had never thrown up/spit up before, but
started to then - not as often as you describe though. I was sure it
was a dairy allergy and was about to start cutting all dairy out of my
diet but everyone here convinced me it was normal . Honestly I think
the screamingmade her throw up. I'd still check with your pedi, but it
does sound like colic.

He then told me that it sounds like she can't digest the milk. I said
there's never been a problem up until about a week or so ago, and I haven't
changed my diet, by any means, nor have I changed hers. She's yet to have
any type of baby cereals, other milk or formula, and as far as that goes,
I'll start cereals when I feel she's ready for it (ped said definitely NOT
before 3m of age) and she'll have regular cow's milk when she a) is at least
a year old AND b) has decided to wean and I will not give her formula at all
(unless, of course, there's something drastic that changes or something -
maybe I get hit by a car and DH has to feed the baby and I can't pump or
whatever...)

So, the pharmacist says it sounds like she can't digest the milk which is
why it's more like baby milk puke and not spit up milk. He said that it
sounds like I should be calling the ped, as he was thinking I should
probably switch to a formula. I said I was not interested in changing to
any other form of milk. That suggestion, actually, caught me fairly off
guard. Isn't formula a little harder on a baby's stomach than BM?
ESPECIALLY if a baby's stomach has had only bm since day 1 and nothing else?
Wouldn't up and switching to formula be the worst thing to do?

Now, just in case it comes up, I really do feel that the pharmacist was
trying to be helpful. I really don't believe he was outwardly trying to
give me bad advice, nor do I believe that he was against nursing and trying
to push his beliefs/values/ideas/whatever on me. I do, however, feel that
he *might* have just been uneducated on breastfeeding, possibly, and was
just trying to give the best advice he had.

Any comments? Ideas? Suggestions? (on anything?)



As for the pharmacist, he was trying to be helpful but probably isn't
that knowledgeable about BF. That said, on another chat group, many
moms have said their pedis told them to go on formula due to reflux
issues. Having had no experience there, I can't comment.

I'd talk to your pedi - is he/she supportive of BF? If not,find one who
is. That was important to me from the start, because if we had issues I
didn't want the pedi to push formula.

Anne Rogers wrote:

The sick you describe sounds to me as if it's what happens if they don't
spit up straight away and it gets partially digested, ideally that doesn't
happen very often because if they need to burp and can't manage it, then you
help them and so on, but sometimes it happens several feeds on the trot and
it's really frustrating.

Sounds exactly as ds was. He was a very sicky baby, milky vomit
straight after feeds and cottage cheese up to a few hours after. He was
like that for the whole 6 mths until he started solids, at which time
it pretty much stopped. He was bf up to 15 and a half months - so as
far as I can tell it wasn't the bm that was the problem, it was just
his guts. He had bad colic for 3 mths and I suspect it's all linked
together.

Jeni

"cjra" wrote in message
oups.com...

xkatx wrote:
For me, I thought this wasn't good advice at all. I wanted to know what
others thought!

Last night, around 1am, off I go to the 24h pharmacy, taking DD2 with me.
She's 12 weeks now, and for the last week or so, she's been quite
difficult,
to say the least, come evening.

Around 9pm or so daily, she gets impossible. She screams and screams.
Believe me, I've tried nearly everything - playing, talking, singing,
swaddling, rocking, changing diaper, burping, bathing, walking to the
store,
feeding - whatever, I feel like I've tried it all, and it's only been the
last week or so. There's not a tear in her eye, and from about 9ish to
around 1am, it's quite difficult. She's fine all day with sleeping and
alert times. In the evening, though, she gets her time and she'll scream
for a good 20 minutes and then out of nowhere she just seems to snap out
of
it and will either sit and smile, coo, whatever or just sleep but that
lasts
about 10 minutes. It's just like a vicious (difficult) cycle.

Ok, so last night around 1am, she's up to the same thing. I pack her up
to
take her for a car ride, thinking that this might help as she seems to
like
the car. I thought I'd go down to the 24h pharmacy not too far away and
see
about either some gripe water or Ovol or something. I found gripe water
didn't work, my ped said he didn't believe it worked, and again, I'll
tell
you it did not work for DS years ago! I'm at the point now where I'm
willing to try anything.

I'm talking to the pharmacist and he tells me that no, I can't use both
Ovol
and gripe water at the same time - one or the other. He recommended, at
DD2's age, Ovol and not the gripe water. I started talking to him a bit
about what happens and goes on. How DD2 at night gets like this. Yes,
she's definitely eating enough, but she's always been one to spit up a
bit
after feedings, and it comes out right after just how it goes in,
normally,
and right as she's eating. She doesn't seem to want to eat more after
spitting up. I told him in the evening, however, like last night, she
had 2
dirty diapers right in a row. I changed her and about half an hour later
she dirties another diaper. She also, come night time, seems to puke
up -
days she spits up, evenings it's more like puke. It's more thick white
looking and maybe even slightly chunky. Best I described it to him was
that
it was almost like cottage cheese without the curds mixed with some plain
child's white glue (but not quite that thick)

What you described is exactly what DD started doing around week 6 and
lasted until week 8. My otherwise perfect baby turned into a screaming
hellion every night. Now, she had never thrown up/spit up before, but
started to then - not as often as you describe though. I was sure it
was a dairy allergy and was about to start cutting all dairy out of my
diet but everyone here convinced me it was normal . Honestly I think
the screamingmade her throw up. I'd still check with your pedi, but it
does sound like colic.

DS had baaad colic. I was nearly crying at his 6 week checkup because he'd
just cry and cry and scream every evening at the same time, for the same
length of time!
My ped assured me there was nothing I could do, really, and that it would
stop by 3 months of age. DS, the little brat he was, seemed to have just up
and stopped out of nowhere, and yes, IIRC, he was almost 3 months exactly to
the day!

He then told me that it sounds like she can't digest the milk. I said
there's never been a problem up until about a week or so ago, and I
haven't
changed my diet, by any means, nor have I changed hers. She's yet to
have
any type of baby cereals, other milk or formula, and as far as that goes,
I'll start cereals when I feel she's ready for it (ped said definitely
NOT
before 3m of age) and she'll have regular cow's milk when she a) is at
least
a year old AND b) has decided to wean and I will not give her formula at
all
(unless, of course, there's something drastic that changes or something -
maybe I get hit by a car and DH has to feed the baby and I can't pump or
whatever...)

So, the pharmacist says it sounds like she can't digest the milk which is
why it's more like baby milk puke and not spit up milk. He said that it
sounds like I should be calling the ped, as he was thinking I should
probably switch to a formula. I said I was not interested in changing to
any other form of milk. That suggestion, actually, caught me fairly off
guard. Isn't formula a little harder on a baby's stomach than BM?
ESPECIALLY if a baby's stomach has had only bm since day 1 and nothing
else?
Wouldn't up and switching to formula be the worst thing to do?

Now, just in case it comes up, I really do feel that the pharmacist was
trying to be helpful. I really don't believe he was outwardly trying to
give me bad advice, nor do I believe that he was against nursing and
trying
to push his beliefs/values/ideas/whatever on me. I do, however, feel
that
he *might* have just been uneducated on breastfeeding, possibly, and was
just trying to give the best advice he had.

Any comments? Ideas? Suggestions? (on anything?)



As for the pharmacist, he was trying to be helpful but probably isn't
that knowledgeable about BF. That said, on another chat group, many
moms have said their pedis told them to go on formula due to reflux
issues. Having had no experience there, I can't comment.

I'd talk to your pedi - is he/she supportive of BF? If not,find one who
is. That was important to me from the start, because if we had issues I
didn't want the pedi to push formula.

The kids' doc is fantastic. I just love him. He's a huge supporter of
breastfeeding, and the other doc in his office actually runs the
breastfeeding clinic in the city.
If DD2's horrid nights continue over the weekend, I'll be calling first
thing Monday morning...

Have you kept a journal of your foods? I have to wonder if he's
sensitive to something in your diet.

I know how completely thorough you are -- so I hesitate even saying
this. But I know that Lily (my 13 month old) was/is allergic to cow.
So sensitive was she that I couldn't even eat beef for a long time.
Cow allergy is quite common. It isn't that your baby might be allergic
(sensitive or whatever) to lactose -- human milk has more lactose than
any other mammal and a baby not being able to digest lactose is
extremely rare.

Anyway, I remember when Lily was having a very hard time... spitting up
more than she ate, it would seem anyway. Once I completely cut out
dairy (it was a learning curve since I didn't realize which ingredients
to look for), she was fine. She rarely spit up, quite honestly.

Do you have a sling? Honest to goodness, Lily was usually very
consolable by a sling. It seemed that the pressure of the sling
against her spine helped her relax.

Another tidbit is to put a cup of chamomile tea in the bath. That
always soothed Lily... and still does.

HTH!!!

Misti

Oh, that was horrid advice, or course. The other ladies are right on!
I don't chalk it up to 'he meant well' though. I'm much more cynical
than that!!

Sorry for top posting.... but it sounds like bad advice to me. ... and to
be fair, most pharmacists (and Drs) seem a) to know squat-all about
breastfeeding, breastmilk and it being a living substance that nobody
completely understands and b) seem very keen to "prescribe" something they
know the chemical make-up of (like formula).

For the record, both DD (4 y) and DS (2y) both did humungous spews on
occasion (they normal would posset a little at each feed, but these were
different - vast quantities and explosive spewing).

With DD I worked out that it only happened after I'd eaten chilli (even
capsicum) but never worked it out with DS despite keeping a food diary for a
while. They both grew out of it
So unless DD isn't gaining weight or having plenty of wet nappies each day,
I wouldn't switch to formula.
Maybe keep a food diary just to see if its anything obvious in your diet.
You've got much better control on that than what goes into artificial breast
milk.

My 2c
Amanda



"xkatx" wrote in message
news:w6Nrh.165611$hn.36376@edtnps82...
For me, I thought this wasn't good advice at all. I wanted to know what
others thought!

Last night, around 1am, off I go to the 24h pharmacy, taking DD2 with me.
She's 12 weeks now, and for the last week or so, she's been quite
difficult,
to say the least, come evening.

Around 9pm or so daily, she gets impossible. She screams and screams.
Believe me, I've tried nearly everything - playing, talking, singing,
swaddling, rocking, changing diaper, burping, bathing, walking to the
store,
feeding - whatever, I feel like I've tried it all, and it's only been the
last week or so. There's not a tear in her eye, and from about 9ish to
around 1am, it's quite difficult. She's fine all day with sleeping and
alert times. In the evening, though, she gets her time and she'll scream
for a good 20 minutes and then out of nowhere she just seems to snap out
of
it and will either sit and smile, coo, whatever or just sleep but that
lasts
about 10 minutes. It's just like a vicious (difficult) cycle.

Ok, so last night around 1am, she's up to the same thing. I pack her up
to
take her for a car ride, thinking that this might help as she seems to
like
the car. I thought I'd go down to the 24h pharmacy not too far away and
see
about either some gripe water or Ovol or something. I found gripe water
didn't work, my ped said he didn't believe it worked, and again, I'll tell
you it did not work for DS years ago! I'm at the point now where I'm
willing to try anything.

I'm talking to the pharmacist and he tells me that no, I can't use both
Ovol
and gripe water at the same time - one or the other. He recommended, at
DD2's age, Ovol and not the gripe water. I started talking to him a bit
about what happens and goes on. How DD2 at night gets like this. Yes,
she's definitely eating enough, but she's always been one to spit up a bit
after feedings, and it comes out right after just how it goes in,
normally,
and right as she's eating. She doesn't seem to want to eat more after
spitting up. I told him in the evening, however, like last night, she had
2
dirty diapers right in a row. I changed her and about half an hour later
she dirties another diaper. She also, come night time, seems to puke up -
days she spits up, evenings it's more like puke. It's more thick white
looking and maybe even slightly chunky. Best I described it to him was
that
it was almost like cottage cheese without the curds mixed with some plain
child's white glue (but not quite that thick)

He then told me that it sounds like she can't digest the milk. I said
there's never been a problem up until about a week or so ago, and I
haven't
changed my diet, by any means, nor have I changed hers. She's yet to have
any type of baby cereals, other milk or formula, and as far as that goes,
I'll start cereals when I feel she's ready for it (ped said definitely NOT
before 3m of age) and she'll have regular cow's milk when she a) is at
least
a year old AND b) has decided to wean and I will not give her formula at
all
(unless, of course, there's something drastic that changes or something -
maybe I get hit by a car and DH has to feed the baby and I can't pump or
whatever...)

So, the pharmacist says it sounds like she can't digest the milk which is
why it's more like baby milk puke and not spit up milk. He said that it
sounds like I should be calling the ped, as he was thinking I should
probably switch to a formula. I said I was not interested in changing to
any other form of milk. That suggestion, actually, caught me fairly off
guard. Isn't formula a little harder on a baby's stomach than BM?
ESPECIALLY if a baby's stomach has had only bm since day 1 and nothing
else?
Wouldn't up and switching to formula be the worst thing to do?

Now, just in case it comes up, I really do feel that the pharmacist was
trying to be helpful. I really don't believe he was outwardly trying to
give me bad advice, nor do I believe that he was against nursing and
trying
to push his beliefs/values/ideas/whatever on me. I do, however, feel that
he *might* have just been uneducated on breastfeeding, possibly, and was
just trying to give the best advice he had.

Any comments? Ideas? Suggestions? (on anything?)