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#21
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my baby refuses to eat solids
"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message ... Some babies live on just breast milk longer than others. Not to scare you, but I read a story in a newspaper about a girl 5 years old who had to live on just breastmilk. Her parents fed her with breastmilk donated from others -- it didn't say why the mother couldn't supply enough, but just seemed to imply that mothers stop producing milk when their baby gets a little older. She was allergic to other foods. I think the reason for a decrease in supply as babies get older is not just due to the reduced nursing, but also due to the shape of the palate, it changes and the amount of milk they can get out reduces and correspondingly, the amount of milk produced. So even if a toddler was nursing for all their nutrition there would still almost certainly come a point when mum alone wasn't producing enough. Cheers Anne |
#22
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my baby refuses to eat solids
Chookie ) writes:
In article , (Catherine Woodgold) wrote: Chookie ) writes: (*) It is amazing how little is known about BM nutrients. We can't say that it is proven that BM has all the necessary nutrients, because quite a lot of them have never been studied! On the contrary. The fact that there have been a few people aged 15 months or 5 years who were alive and had consumed only breastmilk proves that bm can contain all the nutrients necessary for life. Actually, we can't. For all we know, the five-year-old might well be the only one who survived that long on BM alone, and the others who have tried it are all dead. We've all heard about the 90-year-old who smokes like a chimney -- that doesn't mean smoking contributes to longevity. Perhaps we disagree on the definition of the word "necessary". Apparently it's not necessary to quit smoking to reach age 90, as I understand the word. And we have to find the 5yo first. I can't find any references on Pubmed to this case, but picking the right keywords is tricky. Do you have a reference? No, sorry. It was a newspaper article, probably the Globe and Mail or Ottawa Citizen, possibly some other Canadian newspaper such as the Toronto Star. I'm pretty sure it must have been before my children were born, so at least 17 years ago, but could have been nearly 30 years ago. As far as I've heard, people consuming only breastmilk tend to be healthy and not to show symptoms of deficiency -- provided the mother is in good health and consuming nutritious food. As far as we can determine, it's "provided the mother is not starving". Dr. A. Kalokerinos found that in the parts of Australia where he was practicing as a doctor, both bottlefed and breastfed babies were suffering from severe vitamin C deficiency often leading to death. He pointed out that it was obvious they were deficient if you looked at the diets: the mothers were consuming almost no vitamin C, and I forget what the bottlefed babies were having but maybe it was cow's milk which has zero or almost zero vitamin C. (IIRC, I wrote him a letter pointing out that his book had wording that tended to ignore or devalue breastfeeding, and he wrote back that his wife had been in the Nursing Mother's Association and he'd learned a lot in the time since he'd written the book.) Mothers who live on McDonald's and BF have all the right nutrients in the BM too. That may be, but they might not have optimal levels of vitamin C in the BM, for example. Mothers in famine areas produce nutritionally inadequate BM. This is important to know when faced with Ezzo material, which focuses on the "quality" of the mother's milk in First-World situations where it is unlikely to be at fault. I disagree with you about iron. I stated: "It does not contain adequate iron, but this is compensated for by the baby's iron stores, which deplete some time after 6mo. And yes, the iron in BM is easily assimilable, but at a year, the baby will almost certainly require more iron than is available from his own stores or fom BM." Which statement do you disagree with, and where is your evidence? Mine comes from WHO literature reviews. I disagree with "It does not contain adequate iron." My opinion is based, not on a lot of evidence, but on arguments in the INFACT newsletter, which were supported with some evidence, and which I'm not taking the time to try to find again at the moment, and on the idea that evolution tends to lead to optimal amounts of nutrients appearing in BM. It's also based on a suspicion that the arguments in the other direction may suffer from one of two fallacies: they might be based on measurements of iron in the bm of mothers of younger babies; or they might be based on an opinion about what the optimal amount of iron is which does not necessarily conform to the actual optimum. Nutrients such as vitamin C which can't be made in the mother's body have to come from her diet. Vitamin C doesn't tend to be stored in the body more than a few hours or days (unlike calcium for example), so the vitamin C in the bm cannot be more than what's in the mother's diet. If she's consuming only very small amounts, the bm will be deficient in it. Just to show the complexities that can happen: people noticed that pregnant women tend to have smaller red blood cells, and that if they take iron supplements during pregnancy then the red blood cells increase to normal non-pregnant size. So, they recommended that pregnant women take iron supplements. Leter, it was discovered that the larger (normal-sized) red blood cells don't easily fit through the tiny blood vessels of the placenta, and that the babies had smaller average birth weight. So they went back to not recommending iron supplements during normal pregnancy if there are no iron-deficiency symptoms. And how exactly is this related to my statements above? This illustrates the last point in my explanation of why I disagree with you, by demonstrating how a widely-accepted opinion about what the optimal amount of iron for a person is can turn out to be wrong. Thanks for the interesting discussion -- and for enlightenment on another thread about long-lasting roofs. -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) "Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled." Kerry Cue |
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