Deadbeats

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
I do have a saving for my child, but the $100 a month is just going
towards the household. When he starts paying the full amount then I
will
start back putting into her savings. You know if I was a mean person I
could modify and raise his amount, but I am being nice. I didn't set
the
current amount the court did. He should have had his butt in court to
defend himself. That was his choice not to show. He never even
responded
to paternity papers. The court decided that the kid was his because he
didn't respond. Well now that he is over $12,000 behind on my case and
$11,000 behind on his other case he needs to get a second job.
=====
So you aren't even sure this is his kid?
=====

------------

Gini I am very sure this kid is his. He was the only man I slept with in
this state.

Pammie1

Due to circumstances beyond my control, I happened to catch a segment of
"Maury" one day a month or so back. The particular piece was a woman who had
made a similar claim... 19 times... and the 19th was shown, like the
previous 18, NOT to be the father.
The point being, if DNA was not used, few will just believe your word
because of the number of times it has been falsely claimed that 'so-and-so'
is the father. Without DNA, only you could know that he is the father and
only then if you are being truthful. Due to some of the claims you've made
here like
"I made those comments because it's the men who seem to have a
problem with having a child and taking care of it."
"I know how to take care of my responsibilities unlike
you poor examples of human life."
"The only problem is it's hard to find a real
man. One who will take care his responsibilities. All I keep hearing
from are little boys like the ones responding against taking care of his
kid/s.",
and many more, often clashing with fathers who would love nothing more than
being allowed to care for their children or single moms who *are* taking
care of their children single-handedly.
I believe it is rather obvious that you have a chip on your shoulder and you
want to punish your child's father, not better your child's life, through
C$.

You came here with the attitude that only you have all the answers and that
was before even hearing the questions. You came here calling people
"dead-beats" without knowing anything about them other than the fact that
they disagreed with you.

In reply to me, you posted
"All you Heathens who don't want to support your kids, who believe that
abortion is the best choice. You better be careful Judgement Day is coming
Soon!! You think it's Hell on Earth now just wait and see you Dead Beats.",
then you were told some of the facts about me in regard to C$, specifically
that I don't believe abortion-on-demand is a moral choice and I am current
and have never been behind in the 16 years of paying outrageous C$.
What I'm trying to say is give the posters a chance before denouncing them
as "dead-beats" before you know jack about them other than they disagree
with you and your possible motives.
Until you have walked in their shoes, don't judge others actions based on
your circumstances.
Phil #3

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Phil #3" wrote in message
link.net...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Phil #3" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
link.net...

"Phil #3" wrote in message
link.net...

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message



lkaboutparenting.com...
Okay Phil #3 I can see why you would be upset. That is
totally
wrong
how
she is using her Child Support money. She is a leech. I
think
she
can
live off $400 a month or less. It's not like she is has
responsibilities.
She is living large at your expensive. That's not good.
Have
you
tried
to modify? I am just curious if you can have your support
lowered.

Pammie1

When it mattered most, I could not afford to even take off of
work
long
enough for a hearing, much less hire an attorney or even
research
it
myself.
Now I'm down to less than a year so it would likely cost me as
much
or
more
than I could save, not to mention I am temporarily stationed
1000
miles
from
the state of origin.
Besides, I've learned to live without it, soon we'll see if
SHE
can

Phil #3
------------
I don't think she would be able to survive without that extra
income
coming in. That would be interesting to see. Less than a
year
to
go...wow your time will be up before you know it. Are you
planning
a
big
get away when that time comes?

Pammie1


I don't know what I'll do. It will be like getting a big raise,
though.
Phil #3

I sent my ex an Excel spreadsheet detailing all of the payments
for
CS,
alimony, attorney fees, and other expenses I was required to pay
broken
down
by year.

I thought she would thank me for being so generous and taking care
of
my
responsibilities. And tell me she couldn't have been the CP
without
my
financial contributions and relate how much she appreciated my
willingness
to be so liberal in helping out with extra visitations. /s/

As usual her response was she never got that much money. But she
got
the
point - it was a major amount she no longer would get.


Funny you should mention that. I have an Excel spreadsheet showing
the
C$
payments, when due, when paid, of course the amount and total paid.
Mine
counts down the number of payments left, how many months (or
fractions
thereof) remaining. I never thought of sending it to her but I think
I
will

Thanks for the idea.
I also have a countdown clock showing the exact years, months,
weeks,
days,
hours, minutes and seconds left before Independence Day
When I installed it, I had several years left. Slowly, I have
watched
the
years tick by; it seemed like it would be forever when I started
counting
in
1995.

Just an FYI - Don't count portions of months. The last CS payment
accrues
on the first day of the month and is due by the end of the last day of
the
month. Even if your child is no longer eligible for CS on the 2nd day
of
the final month in the order you will still owe for the full month.
Pay
for
the last month in full and smile knowing it is the last payment. And
be
sure to check what is required in the local court's rules to fully
satisfy
the CS judgment and close the money judgment file forever.


Like I stated, it does not go through the gummit (thank goodness) and
the
specifics are that my child must be both over 18 and graduated from high
school in order to end the siege. His 19th birthday will precede his
graduation by about one week, both of which are after the date the C$ is
due
for that month. That means I will have paid for the month (May) and in
June,
he will be both over 18 and graduated, ergo, no C$ due.
I have been trying to find case law covering having a judge sign off on
having C$ ended but have been unable to find anything. Other than just
the
details of the court order that demands support also contains the
elements
to end it, so I suppose I will contact an attorney about getting a
signed
court order stop C$ since I haven't found anything.

I paid an attorney $50 for a 30 minute consultation on how to close out
the
money judgements. He gave me a copy of the state law regarding how to
proceed. My case originated in a different county, and not surprisingly,
that county does not follow the state law. They have their own procedure.
When I ask for the procedure they told me they couldn't give me legal
advice. It was like Catch-22. My suggestion is it may not be as straight
forward to close out the money judgement as you might assume.


I'm not making any assumptions, just looking for how to proceed when the
time comes; of course, I want to know *before* the final day but I just
can't seem to find anything.
Due to my situation, if necessary I would have to hire another liar....
er... lawyer to file for me and follow through to the end. I'm unsure if
the original court order would be sufficient to end the C$ based on the
terms of the order, or if I must obtain a new court order ending the C$.
*That* is what I'm having trouble finding case or legislated law concerning.
Phil #3

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Okay AZ since you are not getting it. Let's just put it in terms you
may
understand.
====
Gosh--Why are you so insistent that if anyone disagrees with you, it's
because
they don't understand? Ya know, I haven't seen a whole lot of deep
thinking come
out of you.
OK, let's try this--(to make things a little easier for *you*):

WE GET IT! WE DON"T AGREE WITH YOU!

How's that?
-------------------
Oh gad!! Gini I now have cherry kool aid all over my monitor!!! You
crack
me up!!!

~AZ~
--------------

I don't give a rats behind if you don't agree with me. I have my own
opinions and it's nothing you can do to change that. It doesn't take a
rocket scientist to figure out that cs is in effect and these dead beats
are going down if they don't take care of their kid.
-------------
And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if the guy wants
nothing to do with the kid then all your histrionics aren't going to change
that. Oh but wait, you couldn't care less about a relationship between
them. You're all about the money.

~AZ~


Pammie1

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
I thought you said he was paying and that if a dad is paying
"something,"
he
doesn't meet your definition of "deadbeat."
====
In case you didn't know, it's hard being a single
parent.
====
Oh puleeze! I was a single parent and full time student--graduated with
honors
--double major of history and pre-law--Easy? Hardly! And, I worked
painting
houses in my "free" time. I collected no child support and I can assure
you that
I didn't spend my time obsessing on what my ex "owed" our kids. Spare me
the
whining about how "hard" it is being a single parent! I've had a hell of
a
lot
bigger challenges than that to face. Life is hard--You pull yourself up
by
your
bootstraps and do what you have to do in the best interest of the kids.
You
brought this entire matter on yourself and your daughter. Yeah, I've
read
what
you've posted and it's all been how much of a victim you are of this man
and I'm
------------------

Gini I consider my child's dad a dead beat because someone who is
$12,000
in child support is not making payments.

That just isn't true, Pammie! My husband found out that he was the father
of an almost 13 year old girl by a one night stand a couple of years ago.
He never knew she existed. We were married and had the 2 children we knew
we could afford, and he was hit with 2 years of instant arrearages.
Fortunately, they couldn't go all the way back to the birth of the
child--they could only go back 2 years. But his instant arrears have
destroyed our credit. We could not refinance our home because of the lien
they have on it. When the mortgage agent called to find out if they would
subordinate their claim so we could refinance, the CS idiot said "not this
scumbag" as if he were an outrageous deadbeat who never paid--and he has
never missed a payment since the order was in place! You can't just look
at
a high number and say "This guy must be a deadbeat." People are screwed
by
the system all the time, and end up with outrageous numbers attached to
their names!

Here's another horror story to prove having a large arrearage does not mean
a father hasn't paid CS.

On three occasions, while in court for other issues, my ex told the court I
was in arrears on CS. It was like an after thought issue to what we were
really there for that day. The judge asked if I had my payment records with
me. Of course, I didn't have my payment records, I had no idea I would be
challenged on my CS payments. Those misrepresentations on her part caused
me to pay over $13,000 more CS than the court ordered. The judges move the
goal posts all the time so a father cannot possibly be prepared or meet the
requirements they set up.

The game, I finally figured out, is it doesn't matter how much a father
actually pays. What the court says he has paid is the amount the court
uses. And all a mother has to do is verbally claim non-receipt of CS to get
the judge to act on her behalf. I tried to come back, show my payment
records, and prove she lied claiming no judge had ever looked at my payment
records in establishing arrearages. The court ruled I could not go behind
the arrearage determinations once the arrearages had been established and
the court would not take the time to even consider my payment records
because it didn't matter what I really paid.

Gini I consider my child's dad a dead beat because someone who is
$12,000
in child support is not making payments.

That just isn't true, Pammie! My husband found out that he was the
father
of an almost 13 year old girl by a one night stand a couple of years ago.
He never knew she existed. We were married and had the 2 children we
knew
we could afford, and he was hit with 2 years of instant arrearages.
Fortunately, they couldn't go all the way back to the birth of the
child--they could only go back 2 years. But his instant arrears have
destroyed our credit. We could not refinance our home because of the
lien
they have on it. When the mortgage agent called to find out if they
would
subordinate their claim so we could refinance, the CS idiot said "not
this
scumbag" as if he were an outrageous deadbeat who never paid--and he has
never missed a payment since the order was in place! You can't just look
at
a high number and say "This guy must be a deadbeat." People are screwed
by
the system all the time, and end up with outrageous numbers attached to
their names!

--------------
Teachrmama I agree with you totally, but when I speak I speak of my case
only. I have no idea what goes on in other cases. I do realize that the
good men in the world seem to get screwed by the system while the true
dead beats get away with not paying. I have a girlfriend who is married
and she and her hubby found out that he has a kid. They are going through
that same mess. I know in my case the arrears grew over time. It was
nothing instant about it.

Pammie1

Here's another horror story to prove having a large arrearage does not
mean
a father hasn't paid CS.

On three occasions, while in court for other issues, my ex told the court
I
was in arrears on CS. It was like an after thought issue to what we were
really there for that day. The judge asked if I had my payment records
with
me. Of course, I didn't have my payment records, I had no idea I would
be
challenged on my CS payments. Those misrepresentations on her part
caused
me to pay over $13,000 more CS than the court ordered. The judges move
the
goal posts all the time so a father cannot possibly be prepared or meet
the
requirements they set up.

The game, I finally figured out, is it doesn't matter how much a father
actually pays. What the court says he has paid is the amount the court
uses. And all a mother has to do is verbally claim non-receipt of CS to
get
the judge to act on her behalf. I tried to come back, show my payment
records, and prove she lied claiming no judge had ever looked at my
payment
records in establishing arrearages. The court ruled I could not go
behind
the arrearage determinations once the arrearages had been established and
the court would not take the time to even consider my payment records
because it didn't matter what I really paid.

------------
That is a horror story. Like I said before it's always the good guys that
get screwed.

Pammie1

Due to circumstances beyond my control, I happened to catch a segment of
"Maury" one day a month or so back. The particular piece was a woman who
had
made a similar claim... 19 times... and the 19th was shown, like the
previous 18, NOT to be the father.
The point being, if DNA was not used, few will just believe your word
because of the number of times it has been falsely claimed that
'so-and-so'
is the father. Without DNA, only you could know that he is the father and
only then if you are being truthful. Due to some of the claims you've
made
here like
"I made those comments because it's the men who seem to have a
problem with having a child and taking care of it."
"I know how to take care of my responsibilities unlike
you poor examples of human life."
"The only problem is it's hard to find a real
man. One who will take care his responsibilities. All I keep hearing
from are little boys like the ones responding against taking care of his
kid/s.",
and many more, often clashing with fathers who would love nothing more
than
being allowed to care for their children or single moms who *are* taking
care of their children single-handedly.
I believe it is rather obvious that you have a chip on your shoulder and
you
want to punish your child's father, not better your child's life, through
C$.

You came here with the attitude that only you have all the answers and
that
was before even hearing the questions. You came here calling people
"dead-beats" without knowing anything about them other than the fact that
they disagreed with you.

In reply to me, you posted
"All you Heathens who don't want to support your kids, who believe that
abortion is the best choice. You better be careful Judgement Day is
coming
Soon!! You think it's Hell on Earth now just wait and see you Dead
Beats.",
then you were told some of the facts about me in regard to C$,
specifically
that I don't believe abortion-on-demand is a moral choice and I am
current
and have never been behind in the 16 years of paying outrageous C$.
What I'm trying to say is give the posters a chance before denouncing
them
as "dead-beats" before you know jack about them other than they disagree
with you and your possible motives.
Until you have walked in their shoes, don't judge others actions based on
your circumstances.
Phil #3

---------------
I agree with you totally Phil #3 about not judging. When I make comments
I am speaking to whoever is reading. If it applies to you than I am
speaking directly to you, but if it doesn't apply to you then I am really
not coming down on you. You seem to be a very good father figure. I
apologize if I came at you the wrong way.
You may have a point, I do have a bone to pick with my kid's father. I
don't hate him and I am not angry with him. I just want him to learn that
you can't deceive women and live a happy and free life. Now if it was
another situation where he told me that he was married and he really
didn't want a relationship, and I got pregnant by him anyway, then I
probably wouldn't go after cs. I would have had the facts right there in
my face. But when some tells you they want to marry you and want to get
you pregnant and you find out it's all a lie, then that really hurts.
Like I said I have learned. I am not going to fall for those lines
anymore.

Pammie1

You like those, Pammie? Try reading my story that I started posting only
days ago....and it ain't a fairy tale.
I just got hit for an additional $25,000+ in arrearages for filing an appeal
in a case that legally doesn't exist, and I can't get that state to pull
their head out of their ass because they want money they were defrauded by
my ex......and even if they had a legal and legitimate claim, there is no
way in Hell they ever paid her anywhere near the almost $50,000 they are now
claiming. That $48,460 is up from $23,044 they have been claiming since
Christmas.
It gets even better. Originally I had challenged them, hired an
attorney, and filed to vacate the order they had entered. My attorney had
apparently committed suicide 6 years ago, but the state never contacted me
or anyone else regarding this case until Christmas 2003. They never even
filed or registered their claim, as required by both state and federal
statute,
with the state that actually has subject matter jurisdiction in this case.
If they
had, they would have been informed of their lack of jurisdiction and
authority
to have entered any decisions in this case, basically telling them to eat
whatever
ridiculous amount of money they claim, because it is a bogus claim.
Iowa hates to lose, so they are doing everything they can to continue
this claim in their state, using the long arm provisions of the UIFSA to
reach out and tag me where ever I happen to be....except Nebraska, where
they know they can't have a case because they know it will end Iowa's
claims forever. The other 48 states only know what Iowa tells them, and no
one
knows to call Nebraska to find out I don't actually owe support.
Now, since I never missed a single payment of support at any time when I
did have to pay, *I* was the CP for over 10 years. ALL I ever collected from
my ex was $7600, and even in the end, *she* was over the $1000 arrearage
level to make it a felony, yet no one put her name on Iowa's website of
deadbeat parents. I was more concerned that she have a relationship with her
kids, even when I was laid up and could not work ( which happened frequently
because jobs that get you hurt most often pay the most ).
Now, since my life is effectively screwed by a vengeful witch that gets
to go
on with her life while I spend my days in court, drained of all resources,
and
had an effectual loss of wages, salaries, and commissions of nearly $500,000
because of their actions, how do you suppose I will get that back?
Now, which one of us was the loser? Which one of us was the deadbeat?
You can figure it out. It's easy if you try. Things aren't as black and
white
in my world as they are in yours. In my world, you do the right thing, and
you get
screwed.

Let no good deed go unpunished.


"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Here's another horror story to prove having a large arrearage does not
mean
a father hasn't paid CS.

On three occasions, while in court for other issues, my ex told the court
I
was in arrears on CS. It was like an after thought issue to what we were
really there for that day. The judge asked if I had my payment records
with
me. Of course, I didn't have my payment records, I had no idea I would
be
challenged on my CS payments. Those misrepresentations on her part
caused
me to pay over $13,000 more CS than the court ordered. The judges move
the
goal posts all the time so a father cannot possibly be prepared or meet
the
requirements they set up.

The game, I finally figured out, is it doesn't matter how much a father
actually pays. What the court says he has paid is the amount the court
uses. And all a mother has to do is verbally claim non-receipt of CS to
get
the judge to act on her behalf. I tried to come back, show my payment
records, and prove she lied claiming no judge had ever looked at my
payment
records in establishing arrearages. The court ruled I could not go
behind
the arrearage determinations once the arrearages had been established and
the court would not take the time to even consider my payment records
because it didn't matter what I really paid.

------------
That is a horror story. Like I said before it's always the good guys that
get screwed.

Pammie1

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Gini I consider my child's dad a dead beat because someone who is
$12,000
in child support is not making payments.

That just isn't true, Pammie! My husband found out that he was the
father
of an almost 13 year old girl by a one night stand a couple of years ago.
He never knew she existed. We were married and had the 2 children we
knew
we could afford, and he was hit with 2 years of instant arrearages.
Fortunately, they couldn't go all the way back to the birth of the
child--they could only go back 2 years. But his instant arrears have
destroyed our credit. We could not refinance our home because of the
lien
they have on it. When the mortgage agent called to find out if they
would
subordinate their claim so we could refinance, the CS idiot said "not
this
scumbag" as if he were an outrageous deadbeat who never paid--and he has
never missed a payment since the order was in place! You can't just look
at
a high number and say "This guy must be a deadbeat." People are screwed
by
the system all the time, and end up with outrageous numbers attached to
their names!

--------------
Teachrmama I agree with you totally, but when I speak I speak of my case
only. I have no idea what goes on in other cases. I do realize that the
good men in the world seem to get screwed by the system while the true
dead beats get away with not paying. I have a girlfriend who is married
and she and her hubby found out that he has a kid. They are going through
that same mess. I know in my case the arrears grew over time. It was
nothing instant about it.
---------------
But can't you understand that you are in a forum where the dads are not
deadbeats but they vigorously disagree with the cs system? The amounts they
are ordered to pay have no basis in reality. They receive no assistance
from the gov to enforce visitation but a woman gets all the free help to
enforce a cs order. And a million other reasons cs is unfair, unjust and in
no way set up, as the gov likes to claim, to help the children. Yes, we are
****ed and while writing letters to the newspapers or our representatives in
congress is one way to try to educate people, this is where us anti-cs,
(they way that it is now), people go to vent. So, when you just slam in
here and declare us a bunch of deadbeats, etc it's no surprise that that you
receive the reception that you have. Have you ever considered that there
are a LOT more situations like the ones stated here than there are like
yours? Is it possible that the majority of men really don't want to be
forced out of their kids life and to pay an amount of cs not in any way
based in reality?

~AZ~


Pammie1

Teachrmama I agree with you totally, but when I speak I speak of my case
only. I have no idea what goes on in other cases. I do realize that
the
good men in the world seem to get screwed by the system while the true
dead beats get away with not paying. I have a girlfriend who is
married
and she and her hubby found out that he has a kid. They are going
through
that same mess. I know in my case the arrears grew over time. It was
nothing instant about it.
---------------
But can't you understand that you are in a forum where the dads are not
deadbeats but they vigorously disagree with the cs system? The amounts
they
are ordered to pay have no basis in reality. They receive no assistance
from the gov to enforce visitation but a woman gets all the free help to
enforce a cs order. And a million other reasons cs is unfair, unjust and
in
no way set up, as the gov likes to claim, to help the children. Yes, we
are
****ed and while writing letters to the newspapers or our representatives
in
congress is one way to try to educate people, this is where us anti-cs,
(they way that it is now), people go to vent. So, when you just slam in
here and declare us a bunch of deadbeats, etc it's no surprise that that
you
receive the reception that you have. Have you ever considered that there
are a LOT more situations like the ones stated here than there are like
yours? Is it possible that the majority of men really don't want to be
forced out of their kids life and to pay an amount of cs not in any way
based in reality?

~AZ~
-------------

I get it now. I totally see everyone's point. When I am thinking it's
only about my case. Now I am thinking outside the box and I see what's
going on. I really didn't realized that there are so many different cases
out there. Okay now that I have read what the men are going through, I
see now that men are getting screwed. NOT MY KID'S FATHER. He is still a
loser. ) One thing I have noticed that I have a lot the men and women
in this forum telling me to forget about support and do it all on my own.
Do they not see that my case is different from theirs? Just because one
man might be getting screwed doesn't mean that another man is being
screwed out of cs money. The father of my kid didn't have a major
surprise like being hit with a large arrears amount. If he just would
have paid on his case and stayed on top of it, things would have been
simple. I am sure there are a lot of screwed up cases out there, but at
the same rate there are a lot of cases that are justified.
To be honest with the men in this forum I would be sick if I was ever put
in the situations I am hearing. It really makes my case sound petty. I
really had no idea how men are getting treated like this by the cs system.
That's messed up. Sorry guys. You have a valid point. I am just in
shock right now.

Pammie1