How to deal with 7 year old?

Hi --

The suggestions given on this thread have been excellent. However,
there's one thing that seems to be missing ... Have you spent one-on-one
time with your 7-year old just talking? Talk about how you feel with N
gone, how sad you are that N wasn't up to being the kind of dad your son
needs, or even the kind of dad that N wanted to be. (It's okay to pad
the truth a tiny bit, I think.) Have you talked with your son about
what you want for him? WHY you want him at home? Have you asked him
what *he* wants? How he feels? Have you asked him for suggestions to
help make being home/part of the family more something that he's happy
with?

It has helped both my kids when I commiserate about how awful it feels
to be angry, and how much better we feel when we're not angry. Your
son's feelings are valid, no matter what they are. His actions, though,
are things that are under his control, and he must learn to control
them.

I think it would help a lot to have time, maybe on a regular basis, but
certainly often, when you and your son can be together, talking and
doing things (boys often talk better when they're doing something
active, such as playing catch) without the younger kids around.

By the way, what metro area do you live in? Maybe someone has some
suggestions that are specific to your area?

I hope these suggestions help,
--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:07:19 -0600, "Kat" wrote:


Other than hockey - which I will NOT put DS in -

Just curious, why not hockey? Does he have an interest?

JennP.

In article , JennP. says...

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:07:19 -0600, "Kat" wrote:


Other than hockey - which I will NOT put DS in -

Just curious, why not hockey? Does he have an interest?

JennP.

Hockey Mom has a bad word association now ;-)

Banty

"JennP." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:07:19 -0600, "Kat" wrote:


Other than hockey - which I will NOT put DS in -

Just curious, why not hockey? Does he have an interest?

JennP.

After equestrian sports, it's probably the most expensive and time-sucking
thing you could sign your kid up for. Ever see those bumper stickers that
say "Driver carries no cash, kid plays ice hockey" ?

"dejablues" wrote:


"JennP." wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:07:19 -0600, "Kat" wrote:


Other than hockey - which I will NOT put DS in -

Just curious, why not hockey? Does he have an interest?

JennP.

After equestrian sports, it's probably the most expensive and time-sucking
thing you could sign your kid up for. Ever see those bumper stickers that
say "Driver carries no cash, kid plays ice hockey" ?

How about figure skating? Skiing? Actually most winter sports other than maybe
cross country skiing are pretty expensive. You either need a rink or a hill.
And how about sailing or kayaking.

There are very few extra curricular activities that don't cost. Team games
require some kind of uniform usually (cleats, balls, nets etc) and have practice
times/field rental/coaching.

Swimming probably requires the least equipment (bathing suit and goggles) and
also is one of the least injury producing sports, but you need a pool. Track
and cross country are also pretty cheap to do. Gymnastics doesn't have much in
the way of uniforms either, but needs more equipment and coaching. The same for
most martial arts - not much equipment, but coaching and practice.

My kids were mostly into swimming and equestrian. You can spend a lot on
equestrian, but it doesn't have to be humongo expensive. In the beginning the
ponies cost $300 to $500, and my kids were able to compete successfully and win
against kids with much more expensive and prettier mounts. When she was 14,
DD#3 took her aged barefoot $500 pony to a one star event, and placed 5th. This
was a division of 25 and they gave ribbons and points to 8th place. Most of
the rest of the riders were on big expensive horses and some of them didn't even
manage to finish.

It did take time, but it wasn't my time, it was their time. I don't ride, and
while I've been on a horse a few times, my participation was mostly picking them
up from the farm (they rode the school bus to the farm after school) and driving
them to shows or events. They belong to 4H and Pony Club which runs things
pretty inexpensively.

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
You can spend a lot on
equestrian, but it doesn't have to be humongo expensive. In the beginning
the
ponies cost $300 to $500,

That was a very long time ago. It's different now. You can have fun with
horses, but to get serious in the sport means an exponential increase in
spending. The better you want to be, the more money you need. There is still
plenty of eliticism in the horsey world.

It did take time, but it wasn't my time, it was their time. I don't ride,
and
while I've been on a horse a few times, my participation was mostly
picking them
up from the farm (they rode the school bus to the farm after school) and
driving
them to shows or events. They belong to 4H and Pony Club which runs
things
pretty inexpensively.

Owning, boarding, feeding, and properly caring for a horse or pony is quite
expensive, in dollars and time. My first pony cost 750.00, and we had her
for 25 years. My parents paid the bills , trucked me (the equestrian) and
my three younger brothers (who were not interested) to lessons and shows
for 10 years until I could drive myself. Now, farms are being turned into
developments and riding opportunities are few and far between. You have to
have deep pockets to indulge in riding unless you live in West Yahoo.

"dejablues" wrote:


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .
You can spend a lot on
equestrian, but it doesn't have to be humongo expensive. In the beginning
the
ponies cost $300 to $500,

That was a very long time ago. It's different now. You can have fun with
horses, but to get serious in the sport means an exponential increase in
spending. The better you want to be, the more money you need. There is still
plenty of eliticism in the horsey world.

I don't think it is that different now. $500 then might be more now, but it is
the same in relation to other things. That is - in those days $500 would buy a
grade pony or an old car or a certain amount of groceries, and now it would be
maybe $2500 which would buy a grade pony, an old car or the same amount of
groceries.

It did take time, but it wasn't my time, it was their time. I don't ride,
and
while I've been on a horse a few times, my participation was mostly
picking them
up from the farm (they rode the school bus to the farm after school) and
driving
them to shows or events. They belong to 4H and Pony Club which runs
things
pretty inexpensively.

Owning, boarding, feeding, and properly caring for a horse or pony is quite
expensive, in dollars and time. My first pony cost 750.00, and we had her
for 25 years. My parents paid the bills , trucked me (the equestrian) and
my three younger brothers (who were not interested) to lessons and shows
for 10 years until I could drive myself. Now, farms are being turned into
developments and riding opportunities are few and far between. You have to
have deep pockets to indulge in riding unless you live in West Yahoo.

We do live in West Yahoo and have since 1973. The area has changed some, but
it's still pretty rural. We have three public high schools in the county and
one parochial one which also draws from surrounding counties.

The farms where we boarded our horses then are still there. It's not as easy to
turn them into developments because of zoning restrictions (conservation
easements, critical watershed areas and buffer zones around the NAS) and the
problems of sewage disposal. A lot of the land won't perk. The county has a
total area of 611 mi2 and almost 50% is water. The county north of us is as a
total area of 643 mi² and only 28% of it is water. They have 6 high schools.

"dejablues" wrote in message
...

"JennP." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:07:19 -0600, "Kat" wrote:


Other than hockey - which I will NOT put DS in -

Just curious, why not hockey? Does he have an interest?

JennP.

After equestrian sports, it's probably the most expensive and time-sucking
thing you could sign your kid up for. Ever see those bumper stickers that
say "Driver carries no cash, kid plays ice hockey" ?

I'm not sure of the costs for equestrian sports, but after a convo with a
lady I know and have known for years, I've come to the conclusion that her
daughter is in the most expensive sport that I have personally come across -
jet ski racing and competition lol
The cost for the jet skis, the maintenance, even to get to and from various
places she competes... They've gone all over for her competitions... All
over Canada (and she's the very, very top in her age and the only girl!) and
also places in the States (I've heard of Cali, Florida and Hawaii) and
places like Mexico or maybe it was around Bahamas or something? THAT is a
bit costly lol

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:07:42 -0600, "Kat" wrote:

Last night, there was a HUGE explosion.
DS came home from school. He wanted to go play outside right away. I made
a deal with him that he can play for a bit, but when supper's ready, he
comes in, has supper (obviously) and then he must do his homework right
after supper before he's allowed to do anything (go back outside, watch TV,
computer, whatever) He said that was fine.
So, I make supper and while I'm outside at the BBQ, I call for him. And I
call. And I call. Supper's on the table, I go out and call again. We're
eating supper and go figure, I call again and he's nowhere to be found. At
this point, I am more than just ****ed off. He's not supposed to be
anywhere that he can't hear me or see the house. Apparently he's decided to
do as he pleases.
We have supper, finish, and I call him again.
Half an hour or so after supper, he's walking around just outside the yard.
I tell him simply he needs to come in now. He's with about 3-4 other boys.
He yells no at me. Once again, I just tell him he needs to come in now.
Once again, he's yelling at me, and quite frankly, I could just about knock
his block off. Last time, I tell him it's time to come in. He again yells
no and comes in the yard, grabs a football and walks out of the yard. Now
I'm ****ed off big time. I basically say he's inside NOW or there's going
to be trouble. He runs away from me, ends up throwing the ball at me to try
and hit me and storms off in the house, yelling and shouting, even swearing
at me.

One thing that strikes me here is that you *yell* at him to come in,
but don't enforce your command. The other thing that strikes me is
that he doesn't feel that he has to stick to any bargain with you.

If he really must come in, you need to go and get him and bring him
inside.


Really, I've had it with him. His behaviour has NOT been even close to
acceptable for some time, but lately it's getting worse. At one point I
DRAGGED him to the police station and told the cops there that I've had it,
I'm about ready to give up and they need to give me some sort of resources
before I lose it with him. They gave me a useless list of "resources" that
got me nowhere.

I doubt if the police can make him listen to you and he probably knows
that. How do you know the resources were useless? Did you contact
any of them? What kinds of resources were they?

I really CAN'T take his behaviour anymore.
He takes off and disappears often. He'll take off to the store 2 or 3
blocks away when I had told him he's not allowed to go to the store on his
own OR with other 7 year old friends. He's taken off to the park, and like
the store, it's a couple blocks away, across a busy, busy road and a place I
have specifically said he may not go alone (or with other 7 year olds) He
does not go by himself. It's ONLY with these other kids, and I've seen that
the other kids have parents that just don't care where their kids are.
He's doing nothing but talking back. And most of the time it stems from him
not being able to do something HE wants to do that the other kids are doing.
I'm really sick and tired of it.

I can understand being sick and tired of it, but.... you are the
parent and the adult. It is up to you to figure out what you can do
that will work.

Last night, after he finally came in (and I had gone out of the yard to drag
him in, which is when he was running away and throwing the ball at me) he
was yelling and swearing and you name it. Then he ended up saying that it's
MY fault that he doesn't have a dad, which is, for the most part, untrue.

It does NOT matter if it is true. It's how he feels. You need to
acknowledge the feeling without condoning the behavior he is showing.

I felt like yelling at him that he doesn't have a proper dad because his dad
is a drug addict, selfish, immature, irresponsible and self-centered. Which
is true.

I hope you did not do this. Despite his dad's character, his dad is
his dad and he *will* love him. Badmouthing his dad won't help you.

I can't and won't force N to stop by to see the kids. Or help with
supporting or raising them. I can't force him to be a proper father, as he
should be. I will NOT have him here on drugs or have him come one day, no
word for 2 weeks, come another day, basically come and go as he pleases...
Tell the kids he's stopping by (or not tell the kids and just keep it to
myself thinking he'll be here) and he doesn't come.

You cannot force this, I agree. You do need to work on your attitude
though. Your son probably senses your anger at his dad. Kids are
very sensitive to this even when we don't say anything to them.

I'm at the point, though, where I just CAN'T take this behaviour, and from a
7 year old. I'm getting to the point where I feel like I'm just about ready
to drop him off at the police station, tell them to do something with him
because I can't and leave.

At 7, this is a bad idea.

I can't handle his yelling and swearing, taking off and disappearing...
Doing as he pleases when he pleases. And when he doesn't get his way, he'll
destroy things just to try and **** me off... Like dig holes in the wall,
write all over the floor in his room, throw toys around, rip clothes out of
his closet and drawers... you name it.
I'm really at the end of my rope... Is there ANYTHING to try doing??

You have gotten some decent advice about consequences. I am going to
take a different tack and advise you that you need to spend lots of
positive time with him.

And also, it's not like he doesn't get things... He's in sports (thankfully
the season is coming to an end in the next couple weeks) and has more than
enough. Taking away fun things or priviledges seems to be useless. I do
comment on good behaviour - tell him it makes me happy when he does this,
makes me proud when he does that. Nothing seems to be working.

Don't tell him it makes you happy when he does this. That is probably
demotivating. Instead try to help him figure out that it makes *him*
feel good to do the specific behavior.

Some things you can try.

Role Play. Talk to him about specific behaviors and act them out with
his action figures. Perhaps have the action figure do something like
going off without telling his *boss.* Ask him how the boss would feel
and what the boss would do in that situation. Ask him how the action
figure *should* act and why. You will have to figure out the
specifics from what you want to work on. Choose only one behavior at
a time though or it can become overwhelming.

Putting him in activities is good, but.... don't overwhelm him. Make
sure he has time with you to just hang out. Give him some chores, but
do them *with* him. Have him help you with cooking, cleaning, laundry
and use this as an opportunity to talk about his feelings about both
you, dad, his sisters, school, etc.

Concentrate on the positive things he does and ignore as much of the
bad behavior as you can. Do you swear? If so, this is partly where
he picked it up, so created a reward for yourself for stopping your
own yelling and bad language. Perhaps a little money jar where you
both put in a nickel every time you use a silly word instead of a bad
word. You can make up some words to use that will be acceptable and
that may make you giggle instead of staying angry.

Teach him how to breathe. This can be a fun game and all your
children can participate. Pretend to be a balloon. Breathe in deeply
and raise your arms to simulate being a balloon, then put your arms
down when you breathe out. After doing this when it is a game, when
he gets angry and swears, try saying balloon and starting it up. He
may or may not follow along, but if he does, it should defuse the
anger and get you all laughing.

Try this game when you are busy with the younger children. Get a
plastic easter egg. Pretend to fill it with love. Break it over his
head and tell him how much you love him.

Try using a squirt gun, but make it into a *love gun* Really ham up
your reaction (this is from Playful Parenting by Lawrence Cohen).

Try to empower him by giving him things that are just a little beyond
his capabilities and scaffolding him so that he *can* do them and be
proud of himself. As he gains competence, let him do these things by
himself.

Use music. Sing your directions instead of talking or yelling. Sure,
you will feel silly, but so what? If it works to play a game like
this and lightens your load, then use it.

I have lots of sympathy for you as this is hard work, but I also know
that when you try staying positive, it changes your life for the
better.




--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

I am sorry that things are so difficult for you, but as many others have said,
there are problems with your parenting style as well as your family's
situation at the moment. Here are a few thoughts from another mother of a 7yo
boy:

1. Involve the school counsellor. DS isn't in trouble at school -- yet --
but the idea is to *prevent* trouble with his education, not wait till he's
running away from school. And I can bet you will get a result if you say,
"My husband is a drug addict, I've just made him leave, and I need some help
for my son." In fact, I'd be saying it anywhere there is a possibility of
help (like the Big Brother people): your DS would be called a "child at risk"
here.

2. What exactly have you said to your son about your ex? What does he know
and what is he guessing? Frankly, I'd be telling him the truth in a simple
way, making it quite clear that the drugs are the problem: those days Daddy
used to sit on the couch and ignore us (insert appropriate symptoms here, of
course) were caused by drugs. The drugs were stopping him from being a good
Daddy, so I had to send him away before he spent all our money on drugs/hurt
someone. The school counsellor may be able to help you with this, btw --
even little kids are taught a bit about drugs these days, and the counsellor
will know what a child his age is likely to understand and cope with.

3. Nobody else has mentioned it, but how is your child able to leave your
house? Don't you have deadlocks? What's to stop your preschoolers walking
under a car?

4. Discipline.

a. Set a good example yourself. Use 'please' and 'thank you' to the kids and
everyone else; keep your word (including threats to remove privileges).
Mention your own moral dilemmas and what you did ("I found a wallet in the
street this morning and it had lots of money in it..."). Never lie to your
child (even if you have to restrict some information or over-simplify). Your
children should be able to trust your word absolutely. And apologise if you
do something wrong yourself.

b. The first part of discipline is prevention: prevent the kid from doing the
bad stuff. Hence the deadlocks, for example. Mop up the excess energy and
anger with after-school activities, visits to the grandies or after-school
care (this will also keep him away from the undesirable companions). Make
sure he is having a good nutritious breakfast and that the after-school snack
does actually keep him going till dinner. My boys often have two afternoon
teas as we eat late. You need to really work on this area, especially as the
relationship between the two of you has deteriorated so much. Make it easy to
be good.

c. The second part of discipline is teaching. Make sure DS knows what your
expectations are. Be explicit. I think you are going pretty well at this,
judging from the deal you had about homework. Continue to teach him the right
forms of words, eg "Thank you for having me", "May I please...", how to leave
the table, how to offer condolences or accept congratulations, use his knife
and fork, etc. A child who knows What To Do will feel more confident.

d. The bit I think you are having real trouble with is consequences for
behaviour, bad and good. For example, your response to good behaviour is to
tell him that it makes you happy. Is your happiness THE moral standard? Why
should a boy of seven be responsible for your happiness anyway? Don't you
think he might find the prospect daunting? No, you want him to be polite and
responsible, kind and honourable *because those things are right*. So your
response to good behaviour should be an approving smile and "That was
kind/good manners," or "I'm glad to see you helping Billy with his homework,"
-- something that describes what is good about what he's doing. There is
nothing wrong with saying you are pleased with him, but the emphasis should be
not on your feelings but on what he is doing right. With wrongdoing, be
equally clear on what he has done wrong. DS1 hates it when I ask, "What did
you do wrong? What should you have done?" but it is important to make sure a
child knows what was wrong with their behaviour. Often they mistake the
reason for our anger.

e. When you punish your child, the punishment should occur as close in time
to the naughtiness as possible, should not drag on, and should sting (this is
not to say that it must be physical, though that does work on some children).
Find your son's dislikes and use them -- DS1 here is a chatterbox, so
silence/time-out is something that he really hates! Natural consequences are
great when they occur promptly, but often they don't, which is why people keep
smoking.

f. A first-time offence needs a rebuke (that was wrong; this is what you
should have done). Deliberate wrongdoing needs punishment/restitution, not
threats, moaning, pretending it didn't happen or is someone else's
responsibility -- you've seen my complaints about Other People's Children at
music class!

g. Your DS is a very angry, hurt and confused little boy. I do not believe
'tough love' of the empty-his-room kind is appropriate. I think such
treatment would only be OK if the parents had totally stuffed up the
discipline, a complete fresh start was required, and there were no other
factors at work. ATM your DS needs lots of love and attention, not rejection
(if you threw Daddy out, what's to stop you throwing him out? Could he be
testing you to see what it takes?). Even with a great deal of understanding
on your part, it may still take him a very long time to become the boy you
would like to have.

5. DS's world has turned upside down and he is probably trying to get some
control over it. Perhaps you can think of other control to give him: "We
have a bit extra this week; would you like some Coco Pops or a watermelon as a
treat?" If he is doing well at school, that's great -- some of us with
separated parents find school a relief as it is predictable, and bury
ourselves in work. My parents had an ugly divorce, and my sister and I both
have Honours degrees...

6. Single motherhood is grindingly weary at times and needs enormous courage
over many years. You will find that courage because -- you have to. Remember
to get all the help you can for yourself and your little ones. It is not
weakness to accept help any more than it is to offer it.

7. This may not be an option, but consider moving back to your parents'
house. Costs won't be so high, and DS will have a father-figure on hand, and
you will have more support.

Again, my best wishes...

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/