Inconsiderate drivers and kids who walk to school

Caledonia wrote:

(You *do* have public school supply lists,
right? Ours are down to providing the pencils and paper, ~ $70 for a
first-grader).

Yes but in grade school the supplies cost $10.00 tops. You can buy them
where ever you want. I've heard it does get more expensive in middle school
and high school when expensive calculators need to be bought and teachers
specify types of binders ect.

Our town has some kind of set up where anyone on food stamps can go get a
backpack filled with supplies for free.

--
Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
EDD 4/06

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Caledonia wrote:
I used to always believe that those parents shopping in Staples for
'school supplies' were sending their children to private schools, too.
Another illusion destroyed. (You *do* have public school supply lists,
right? Ours are down to providing the pencils and paper, ~ $70 for a
first-grader).

We have lists of school supplies they're supposed to
show up with, but you can get your school supplies wherever
you like.

Our school has actually had to stop distributing supply lists and/or in any
way requesting that parents purchase supplies because someone threatened a
lawsuit a couple of years ago.The school realized the lists/requests were
illegal because public education is FREE to all eligible students in
California, including supplies. Distributing the lists implied that
purchasing these school supplies was mandatory, and it cannot be.

The school has not fallen apart or been unable to provide sufficient
supplies for students as a result, though I supposei it's possible that
teachers are doing more of it out of their own pockets. Mostly, though, it's
down to parents asking teachers one on one if there's anything they need for
their classrooms. THAT'S perfectly legal.

So, you might consider the possibility that your schools are breaking
actually breaking the law by distributing those lists...
--
Be well, Barbara

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Rosalie B. wrote:

I would definitely NOT wanted to have bus
duty whether you had sympathy for me or not.

But this *IS* an elementary school, and all those jobs
(lunch, recess, pickup/dropoff, etc.) *are* part of the job
description, *and* the teachers have other time built in for
planning periods. That's just the way it is here, and they
have worked it out with the teachers' union and in their
contracts, so I don't see any reason for them not to do this
seeing as they *are* responsible for the safety of those
areas. There are more than 50 teachers and staff available
to rotate through these positions, so it's not like everyone
is doing every job every day.

I think it would depend on the contracts. I know the contracts are
different district to district. I'm sure if these jobs were in the job
description they would step up and do them, but I'm pretty sure in the local
contracts, lunch, recess, and morning playground supervision is counted as
extra duties, and paid for as such. The teachers sometimes pick up the
morning duty, but I have never seen them take recess or lunch, that is
usually the part time assistants. There is no money in the budget to pay
school personel for parking lot duty, and no money in the school district
budget for buses. There are no buses, free or paid by parents, in the
district. Districts vary immensely on this type of thing.

"-L." wrote in message
oups.com...
Jeanne wrote:
I think, for some reason, people think it's unsafe for children to be
riding the bus or walking so they end up chauffeuring their children to
school.

School busses have no seat belts. They used to be designed so that a
fairly slow front impact will result in the gas tank exploding. I
don't know if that has been fixed or not, but there is a book about a
schoolbus tragedy that caused the death of quite a few children because
of the design flaw. The mfr. at the time (Ford) refused to correct the
flaw, and the government upheld their deciasion to do so.

Regardless of what you think of as flaws in the design of school busses, the
fact is that more kids are injured or killed being driven to/from school in
a parents' vehicle or walking. According to NHTSA, school busses are 8 times
safer than passenger vehicles. It's the boarding and disembarking process
that results in most school-bus related deaths (an average of 7 children are
killed in school bus crashes every year--and that's a *national*
average!--while 19 are killed getting on and off the bus).

Incidentally, newer school buses are being made with seatbelts. The buses my
daughter rode on to preschool had five point restraints for the kids. Those
buses were specially designed for younger kids, though.

Our neighbor refuses to let their daughter stand at the bus stop for 5
minutes (usually two moms are there as well) because they think random
strangers will note the presence of the children and try something.
Instead they take their daughter to before-school care at a local
daycare for 5-10 minutes and let them take the girl to school. It's
certainly their choice and if it makes them feel better, it's a valid
solution but I wonder what makes them feel the neighborhood is so
unsafe? It's your typical middle/upper-middle class suburban
neighborhood with sidewalks, with a low crime rate, never a kidnapping,
etc.

Polly Klass, Jacob Wetterling, Stephen Stayner, ....The list goes on
and on. My best friend's daughter almost got snatched two doors down
from their house in broad daylight, by a woman (Tulsa, OK). Luckily my
friend stepped outside right in time to see the woman put her arm
around M. and start to guide her to the car. The woman jumped in the
car and sped off.

Don't kid yourself that it can't happen in your hometown.

You know, I don't think anyone believes it doesn't happen or can't happen
where they live. But honestly, the likelihood of it happening is very, very
small. (About 600 children are the victims of stranger abduction annually.)
And in the case of Jeanne's neighbor, it is really *far* more likely that
their daughter will be injured or killed when the parents drive her to the
before-school caregiver than that she will be abducted while waiting for
five minutes for the bus!
--
Be well, Barbara

"-L." wrote in message
oups.com...

Polly Klass, Jacob Wetterling, Stephen Stayner, ....The list goes on
and on. My best friend's daughter almost got snatched two doors down
from their house in broad daylight, by a woman (Tulsa, OK). Luckily my
friend stepped outside right in time to see the woman put her arm
around M. and start to guide her to the car. The woman jumped in the
car and sped off.

Don't kid yourself that it can't happen in your hometown.

It's not that she's kidding herself, but it's just the fact that compared to
the number of kids who go off to school every day, these unfortunate events
are very, very rare.

JennP.

"bizby40" wrote:


"Nikki" wrote in message
...
Caledonia wrote:

Out of curiousity, are public school busses 'free' (included in the
cost of the school versus paid for like an activity) there?

Where I live the busses run for free if you are outside the city limits.
If you are inside the city limits there is no option for a school bus.
Some towns do have bus stops for city kids but mine doesn't. We have a
public transit bus that parents can use. It is a $1.50 per one way ride.
I drive my son. I may let him walk when he is in 3rd or 4th grade. At
that point he'll have a younger brother in school so it mostly depends on
how responsible, or air headed ;-), they are together. We are only about
6-7 blocks away but half of those blocks have no side walks and there is
one quite dangerous road to cross. There is no through road which means
no stop sign and he has to start the cross out of someone's drive way.
That road has a 30 mph speed limit and of course people drive faster.

I never realized how lucky I was until I read this thread! We have
no bus fees and no limits to how close you can live and still ride
the bus. We also have virtually no way for students to walk because
of where the school is located. I wouldn't have thought that was
lucky before, but now it sounds like drop-off is much safer because
of it.

We have rules about how close they can live and still ride the bus.
In MD they a

The walking distance factor for student transportation eligibility will be as follows:
Elementary Schools -- 1 mile
Middle Schools -- 1.5 miles

as measured from nearest point of residential property to the curb in
front of the nearest door accessible for entry by students to the school
(In the implementation of these mileage distances, the superintendent
of schools is authorized to extend by one-tenth of a mile from these
distances in establishing the line of demarcation between walking and
transported students.)

Transportation may be provided for distances less than that authorized by
Board policy if a condition is considered hazardous to the safety of students
walking to or from school, or to establish a reasonable boundary. Such
conditions shall be reviewed by the transportation department on an annual
basis and corrected, where feasible, by the responsible agency as soon as
possible. The public is encouraged to express their views on the safety of bus
stops and/or recommended walking routes, by writing to the director of the
Department of Transportation.

The school principal is responsible for the discipline of his/her students who ride the school bus. Students who cannot comply with the school bus regulations may be denied the privilege of riding the school bus.

The parochial school across the street from our house has school buses
too and I think they are also run by the county as long as the kids
live on the normal routes and there is room on the buses. If they
live in another county of course then the parents have to provide the
transportation.

We also don't have the long lines other people talk about. My
kids normally ride the bus, so I'm not often there for drop-off,
but when I am, there are generally no more than 5 or 6 cars in
the line. I think the vast majority are bus riders. Also, the
school stopped enforcing "no drop-offs until 5 minutes before
school." Now you can drop them off a half-hour before the
start of school, and they wait in the hall near the office until time
to go to their classrooms.

And despite our school having been built in 1935, the parking
lot must have been updated at some point. The cars enter
on one side, and exit on the other. It's a one-way loop. And
there is plenty of extra parking.

And most amazing of all, I haven't seen any of the aggressive
driving behavior you all talk about. As I said, I'm not there
most day, so the people who work there probably do have
some stories, but I've never seen anyone breaking any of
the drop-off rules.

Bizby


grandma Rosalie

Cathy Kearns wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...

Rosalie B. wrote:


I would definitely NOT wanted to have bus
duty whether you had sympathy for me or not.

But this *IS* an elementary school, and all those jobs
(lunch, recess, pickup/dropoff, etc.) *are* part of the job
description, *and* the teachers have other time built in for
planning periods. That's just the way it is here, and they
have worked it out with the teachers' union and in their
contracts, so I don't see any reason for them not to do this
seeing as they *are* responsible for the safety of those
areas. There are more than 50 teachers and staff available
to rotate through these positions, so it's not like everyone
is doing every job every day.


I think it would depend on the contracts. I know the contracts are
different district to district. I'm sure if these jobs were in the job
description they would step up and do them, but I'm pretty sure in the local
contracts, lunch, recess, and morning playground supervision is counted as
extra duties, and paid for as such. The teachers sometimes pick up the
morning duty, but I have never seen them take recess or lunch, that is
usually the part time assistants. There is no money in the budget to pay
school personel for parking lot duty, and no money in the school district
budget for buses. There are no buses, free or paid by parents, in the
district. Districts vary immensely on this type of thing.

Sure, but in *our* district, this is how they have
chosen to ensure the safety of children during dropoff and
pickup, which seems quite reasonable and effective. If they
wanted to hire separate folks to do these jobs, that's fine
with me too (though I rather suspect that's more expensive).
What would *not* be fine with me is leaving an unsafe
situation for the children. Yes, that's going to cost
money, but I think reasonable safety precautions are
non-negotiable.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Cathy Kearns wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...

Rosalie B. wrote:

I would definitely NOT wanted to have bus
duty whether you had sympathy for me or not.

But this *IS* an elementary school, and all those jobs
(lunch, recess, pickup/dropoff, etc.) *are* part of the job
description, *and* the teachers have other time built in for
planning periods. That's just the way it is here, and they

Well I would have been happier to have such duty in some schools than
in others. There was one principal I worked for that I would have
done whatever he asked, and a couple of others that I would not have
been inclined to do anything that I didn't have to do.

have worked it out with the teachers' union and in their
contracts, so I don't see any reason for them not to do this
seeing as they *are* responsible for the safety of those
areas. There are more than 50 teachers and staff available
to rotate through these positions, so it's not like everyone
is doing every job every day.

I think it would depend on the contracts. I know the contracts are
different district to district. I'm sure if these jobs were in the job
description they would step up and do them, but I'm pretty sure in the local
contracts, lunch, recess, and morning playground supervision is counted as
extra duties, and paid for as such. The teachers sometimes pick up the
morning duty, but I have never seen them take recess or lunch, that is
usually the part time assistants. There is no money in the budget to pay
school personel for parking lot duty, and no money in the school district
budget for buses. There are no buses, free or paid by parents, in the
district. Districts vary immensely on this type of thing.

Sure, but in *our* district, this is how they have
chosen to ensure the safety of children during dropoff and
pickup, which seems quite reasonable and effective. If they
wanted to hire separate folks to do these jobs, that's fine
with me too (though I rather suspect that's more expensive).
What would *not* be fine with me is leaving an unsafe
situation for the children. Yes, that's going to cost
money, but I think reasonable safety precautions are
non-negotiable.

Reasonable safety precautions ARE non-negotiable. But it doesn't have
to be the teachers that ensure it. Your teachers may be OK with it.
I would have done it sometimes and in some circumstances and not in
others. (Whether it was in the contract or not - and I suspect that
it would NOT have been in our contracts because that's not the way
that they are written). It wouldn't have been people hired separately
to ensure safety BTW it would have been folks already working at the
school other than teachers who had these jobs on their lists.

BTW in our school district very few of the buses are owned by the
school system. The buses are owned by private parties, and are
contracted to the school system. So the drivers may or may not work
for the BOE.


Best wishes,
Ericka

grandma Rosalie

In ,
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

*That should be solved by the local police. I know
*you said the school said the police wouldn't do anything
*about it, but personally, I think it's unacceptable of the
*police not to handle that.

I know! You'd think the local residents would be calling, too. But since
I'm not one, the police don't want to talk to me (I tried!) and apparently
they are similarly unresponsive to the school. I wonder if it is because
of the proximity to Bryn Mawr College, which has some sort of campus
police system, causing the local cops to just blow off the whole area?
Otherwise I just don't know.

--
Hillary Israeli, VMD
Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is
too dark to read." --Groucho Marx

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Cathy Kearns wrote:

I think it would depend on the contracts. I know the contracts are
different district to district. I'm sure if these jobs were in the job
description they would step up and do them, but I'm pretty sure in the
local
contracts, lunch, recess, and morning playground supervision is counted
as
extra duties, and paid for as such. The teachers sometimes pick up the
morning duty, but I have never seen them take recess or lunch, that is
usually the part time assistants. There is no money in the budget to
pay
school personel for parking lot duty, and no money in the school
district
budget for buses. There are no buses, free or paid by parents, in the
district. Districts vary immensely on this type of thing.

Sure, but in *our* district, this is how they have
chosen to ensure the safety of children during dropoff and
pickup, which seems quite reasonable and effective. If they
wanted to hire separate folks to do these jobs, that's fine
with me too (though I rather suspect that's more expensive).
What would *not* be fine with me is leaving an unsafe
situation for the children. Yes, that's going to cost
money, but I think reasonable safety precautions are
non-negotiable.

Your district must not be hurting for money as much as ours is. Due to
contracts, the lunch and recess, and before school playground monitors
cannot be picked up by parents (nor can class room assistants, or office
help). The parents have already taken over the funding of art, PE, music
and music through foundations. Books, computers, PE and playground
equipment is all bought by the PTA. Right now all the money that comes from
the state goes to teacher and staff salaries and benefits, we couldn't give
them a raise to do drop-off if we wanted to. However, once drop-offs are
added into the contracts, we can't pull them out. If we can pay for 25
teachers without drop-off duty, we might be able to swing 24 with drop-off
duty. So which grade do we bump the class size up in? If those duties
aren't in the contract the parents can (and do) pickup the slack. We have
no shortage of parent volunteers, we have a shortage of state funding for
employee salaries.