I found the cause of my nausea

I have finally discovered the root of why my nausea has come back. It's
quite simple, really: everytime I start to think about childbirth, delivery,
contractions, pushing, getting separated from my baby, I start to get
nauseated.

Right this minute, I can feel a gasp coming about. I'm glad I found out: I
can at least reason with myself. What I'm afraid of is that I'll end up
throwing up throughout labour - not that I would be ashamed, concerned or
anything, I know it happens, I'm just afraid I am psychologically gearing up
for it. I am becoming adept at controlling the nausea, now that I can link
them to their cause, but I am not certain I will be in control during my
baby's birth (in fact, I have the distinct notion that I will not be in
control, nor will I attempt to be in control - I want to let it flow).

Anyway. For those of you who have recurring bouts of nausea at the end of
pregnancy, I thought this could be interesting to know that there might be
causes other than physical.

Isabelle
EDD Nov 20 (or so they say)

Anyway. For those of you who have recurring bouts of nausea at the end of
pregnancy, I thought this could be interesting to know that there might be
causes other than physical.

That's interesting. Has something happened to make you fear giving birth?
What I am trying to do right now (and maybe this will help you is you can get
past the nausea) is to visualize the way I want birth and labor to happen. I
try to do it every day at naptime and before bed, and also I do affirmations
(e.g. My body and my baby are working together for a safe, healthy, natural
birth.).


Leslie

Emily (2/4/91)
Jake (1/27/94)
Teddy (2/15/95)
William (3/5/01 -- VBA3C, 13 lbs. 5 oz.)
and Lorelei, expected 11/2/04

"Children come trailing clouds of glory from God, which is their home."
~ William Wordsworth

I do that, too, Leslie. It really helps. I would do it before a
race-visualize how the course was, how I'd do in transitions, etc. I highly
recommend doing some light visualizations to prep a bit for childbirth.

Kelly
#4 2/12/05

"Leslie" wrote in message
...
Anyway. For those of you who have recurring bouts of nausea at the end of
pregnancy, I thought this could be interesting to know that there might
be
causes other than physical.

That's interesting. Has something happened to make you fear giving birth?
What I am trying to do right now (and maybe this will help you is you can
get
past the nausea) is to visualize the way I want birth and labor to happen.
I
try to do it every day at naptime and before bed, and also I do
affirmations
(e.g. My body and my baby are working together for a safe, healthy,
natural
birth.).


Leslie

Emily (2/4/91)
Jake (1/27/94)
Teddy (2/15/95)
William (3/5/01 -- VBA3C, 13 lbs. 5 oz.)
and Lorelei, expected 11/2/04

"Children come trailing clouds of glory from God, which is their home."
~ William Wordsworth

I do, as a matter of fact. I have been doing this almost everyday since my
34th week.

I can't find anything new which could have triggered this
fear-anxiety-anguish, except for the fact that it's becoming very close... I
will keep reading positive thoughts about it (I have a few very good books)
and do visualisation (with and without the help of a yoga CD).

I do motorcycling (when not pregnant), and I can remember having a similar
feeling before each ride. I always thought that a certain amount of fear is
essential to that sport: if you feel too confident, you're bound to make a
mistake. Maybe it's just how my body and mind are reacting to childbirth:
don't go in with too much confidence, you could be disappointed, or
something like that.

I'm seeing my midwife tomorrow. I can't wait to talk to her about it!



"Leslie" wrote in message
...
Anyway. For those of you who have recurring bouts of nausea at the end of
pregnancy, I thought this could be interesting to know that there might be
causes other than physical.

That's interesting. Has something happened to make you fear giving birth?
What I am trying to do right now (and maybe this will help you is you can
get
past the nausea) is to visualize the way I want birth and labor to happen.
I
try to do it every day at naptime and before bed, and also I do
affirmations
(e.g. My body and my baby are working together for a safe, healthy,
natural
birth.).


Leslie

Emily (2/4/91)
Jake (1/27/94)
Teddy (2/15/95)
William (3/5/01 -- VBA3C, 13 lbs. 5 oz.)
and Lorelei, expected 11/2/04

"Children come trailing clouds of glory from God, which is their home."
~ William Wordsworth

NAUSEA IN **VERY** LATE PREGNANCY - AND "PSYCHIATRIC MORBIDITY" IN MDs and
MBs...

See the very end of this post...

"Chicken or the egg? The biological-psychological controversy surrounding
hyperemesis gravidarum...[R]esults support that sociocultural factors rather
than scientific evidence have shaped the overarching and predominant illness
paradigm of psychogenesis."
--Shari Munch, PhD [Soc Sci Med. 2002 Oct;55(7):1267-78. PubMed abstract]

"Nausea and vomiting in early pregnancy is associated with psychiatric
morbidity. The causal relationship between the two conditions has not been
established."
--Brian Swallow, MA, CQSW [J Obstet Gynaecol. 2004 Jan;24(1):28-32. PubMed
abstract]

NAUSEA RECURS IN LATE PREGNANCY...

I have finally discovered the root of why my nausea has come back. It's
quite simple, really: everytime I start to think about childbirth,
delivery, contractions, pushing, getting separated from my baby, I start to
get nauseated.

Right this minute, I can feel a gasp coming about. I'm glad I found out: I
can at least reason with myself.


Isabelle,

Hmmmm... Recurrence of nausea at the end of pregnancy.

I liked your post - your thinking.

I think your "distinct notion that [you] will not be in control" is
accurate. My wife said things flowed when she kind of checked out of her
body and let it do its thing (my phraseology).

Of course, being a man, I can never follow my own advice and see for myself,
but it seems to me that your best form of control is trust in your body.

Our medicalized culture works at cross purposes with that best form of
control.

Speaking of which (here comes my usual public service announcement)...

Early editions of Williams Obstetrics stated that women spontaneously assume
upright positions in late second stage and Michel Odent, MD says that women
spontaneously get off their sacra - automatically allow their birth canals
to open that "extra" up to 30% - if allowed to feel unobserved during labor.
Odent calls it the "fetus ejection reflex."

How very odd that our medicalized culture makes women lie on their
butts/backs (semisitting or dorsal) - on their sacra - forcing them to close
their birth canals up to 30%.

How very odd that our medicalized culture KEEPS birth canals closed the
"extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck (when hands, forceps and vacuums are
used).

It may still be possible to purchase ACOG's video of this obvious felony in
cases of shoulder dystocia...

See ACOG birth crime video evidence
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2300

PREGNANT WOMEN: Isabelle likely already knows this - but some women may
not. All you have to do to allow your birth canal to OPEN the "extra" up to
30% is roll onto your side as you push your baby out. But bewa Some OBs
and CNMwives will let you "try" alternative delivery positions but will move
you back to semisitting/dorsal (close your birth canal) for the actual
delivery. Talk to your OB or midwife about this in advance...

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo


PS Isabelle, you didn't specifically say - does your nausea diminish when
you "reason with [your]self"?

One last comment at the very end of this post - after the PubMed
abstracts...


"Zaz" wrote in message
.. .
I have finally discovered the root of why my nausea has come back. It's
quite simple, really: everytime I start to think about childbirth,
delivery, contractions, pushing, getting separated from my baby, I start to
get nauseated.

Right this minute, I can feel a gasp coming about. I'm glad I found out: I
can at least reason with myself. What I'm afraid of is that I'll end up
throwing up throughout labour - not that I would be ashamed, concerned or
anything, I know it happens, I'm just afraid I am psychologically gearing
up for it. I am becoming adept at controlling the nausea, now that I can
link them to their cause, but I am not certain I will be in control during
my baby's birth (in fact, I have the distinct notion that I will not be in
control, nor will I attempt to be in control - I want to let it flow).

Anyway. For those of you who have recurring bouts of nausea at the end of
pregnancy, I thought this could be interesting to know that there might be
causes other than physical.

Isabelle
EDD Nov 20 (or so they say)

Soc Sci Med. 2002 Oct;55(7):1267-78. PubMed abstract

Chicken or the egg? The biological-psychological controversy surrounding
hyperemesis gravidarum.

Munch S.

School of Social Work, Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, New
Brunswick 08901, USA.

Women's somatic complaints are more likely to be labeled by physicians and
other health care professionals as psychologically based when the condition
has an obscure etiology. Perhaps because of this, there are a number of
medical conditions which have been under investigated and where erroneous
assumptions about them exist. Hyperemesis gravidarum (HG)--severe nausea and
vomiting during pregnancy--is an example of such an illness. HG remains a
puzzling condition for both physicians and patients because there is no
known cause or cure. By its very nature, HG has a clearly established
biological cause--pregnancy. Yet, because the exact causal
pathophysiological mechanism is unknown, the organicity of the pregnant
state is either minimized or ignored. This paper examines how HG is
characterized in the literature and the empirical basis for psychogenesis.
Analysis of the literature reveals a tension in the discourse such that both
biologic and psychologic approaches to HG have existed in parallel tracks
throughout history. Still, results support that sociocultural factors rather
than scientific evidence have shaped the overarching and predominant illness
paradigm of psychogenesis. Implications for women's health care and HG, in
particular, are presented.



J Obstet Gynaecol. 2002 Sep;22(5):481-5.

Development of an instrument to measure nausea and vomiting in pregnancy.

Swallow BL, Lindow SW, Masson EA, Hay DM.

Department of Psychology, University of Lincoln, UK.

Severity of nausea, retching and vomiting was determined using a newly
developed nausea and vomiting in pregnancy instrument (NVPI) in two groups
of pregnant women at two gestational time periods. Participants at Time 1
(approximately gestational week 9), completed a postal questionnaire (N =
643) and those at Time 2 (approximately 13 weeks) completed the instrument
at the clinic (N = 284). The three scale items forming the instrument had
acceptable internal reliability (Time 1 alpha = 0.76; Time 2 alpha = 0.82).
It was noted that approximately 60% of women did not vomit, approximately
30% experienced no retching, but 30-40% experienced nausea either all the
time or more than once a day. The instrument may prove to be useful as a
research tool to study nausea and vomiting in pregnancy.


J Obstet Gynaecol. 2004 Jan;24(1):28-32. PubMed abstract

Psychological health in early pregnancy: relationship with nausea and
vomiting.

Swallow BL, Lindow SW, Masson EA, Hay DM.

Department of Psychology, University of Lincoln, UK.

The psychological health of women in early pregnancy was investigated in a
sample of 273 women (mean gestational age 12.8 weeks, SD=2.8) using the
General Health Questionnaire (GHQ) and mood and illness perception visual
analogue scales, and compared with the prevalence and severity of nausea and
vomiting as measured using the Nausea and Vomiting in Pregnancy Instrument
(NVPI). Using a cut-off of 4/5 for the GHQ, 50.5% of pregnant women were
found to have potential psychiatric problems. However, perceived mental
health and physical illness was significantly better than anticipated. The
severity of nausea and vomiting correlated independently with GHQ subscales
for somatic symptoms, social dysfunction, anxiety/insomnia and severe
depression. The contradiction between high GHQ scored and high perceived
wellbeing might be explained through cognitive processing. Nausea and
vomiting in early pregnancy is associated with psychiatric morbidity. The
causal relationship between the two conditions has not been established.


Hitchhiking on Swallow et al's sentence: "Nausea and vomiting in early
pregnancy is associated with psychiatric morbidity..."


NAUSEA IN **VERY** LATE PREGNANCY - AND "PSYCHIATRIC MORBIDITY" IN MDs and
MBs...

Some nausea in VERY late pregnancy - specifically in late second stage
labor - may be associated with a bizarre "psychiatric morbidity" - MDs and
MBs knowingly closing birth canals up to 30%.

This bizarre "psychiatric morbidity" includes MDs and MBs KEEPING birth
canals closed up to 30% when babies get stuck (i.e., pulling with forceps
and vacuums with mom on her back or semisitting)...

This bizarre "psychiatric morbidity" of MDs and MBs likely pertains to the
fact that if MDs and MBs suddenly stop closing birth canals it will be
tantamount to admitting that they have indeed BEEN closing birth canals -
and they might be imprisoned for their obvious criminal negligence and
likely also sued for massive civil damages.

As always, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs and MBs. MDs and MBs
are just academic prime cuts forced through this culture's most powerful
mental meatgrinder - medical school. As naive med students they are TRAINED
to perform this grisly felony (and others).

Women who know about this bizarre "psychiatric morbidity" of MDs and MBs can
easily avoid it - see above.

Thanks for reading.

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo

Kelly said:

I do that, too, Leslie. It really helps. I would do it before a
race-visualize how the course was, how I'd do in transitions, etc. I highly
recommend doing some light visualizations to prep a bit for childbirth.

Yes, I have been doing for years for just about everything (like when I am
dieting, visualizing what it will be like when I lose the weight, etc.!). I
try to do it a little more in depth for childbirth, just going through how I
would like the whole process to be over and over again. I hope to find out how
well it worked in a few days. :-)




Leslie

Emily (2/4/91)
Jake (1/27/94)
Teddy (2/15/95)
William (3/5/01 -- VBA3C, 13 lbs. 5 oz.)
and Lorelei, expected 11/2/04

"Children come trailing clouds of glory from God, which is their home."
~ William Wordsworth

Maybe it's just how my body and mind are reacting to childbirth:
don't go in with too much confidence, you could be disappointed, or
something like that.

That makes a certain amount of sense, but I think OTOH that you can set
yourself up for problems in childbirth unless you are very confident. What did
your midwife say?


Leslie

Emily (2/4/91)
Jake (1/27/94)
Teddy (2/15/95)
William (3/5/01 -- VBA3C, 13 lbs. 5 oz.)
and Lorelei, expected 11/2/04

"Children come trailing clouds of glory from God, which is their home."
~ William Wordsworth

"Leslie" wrote in message
...
snip
That makes a certain amount of sense, but I think OTOH that you can set
yourself up for problems in childbirth unless you are very confident.
What did
your midwife say?

I just got back, actually.

Well, after talking to some people and the midwife today, I was more able to
pinpoint what I am exactly fearing. It's not the birth itself so much as the
"after"... Basically, I am afraid of not being able to be a good mother, and
not be worthy of my daughter's love. This definitely comes from my wicked
relationship with my mother, and I must believe that my story with my
daughter will be different.

My midwife said it was a good sign that I could identify the cause for my
nauseas. She says it often happens that some women do feel nauseated at the
thought of birth, but don't talk about it and keep it all inside, thus
making everything harder when the time comes to deliver the child. She was
happy that I really thought about that, and that I could identify the causes
of my fears. She didn't tell me it would go away, but she said that the fact
that I am thinking about it and exteriorising it is good.

As for the "confidence" with regards to childbirth, I think that while
confidence is important, it's also important not to get too much of a rosy
picture. Childbirth is not an idyllic experience, and I must be aware that
not all of it will be pleasant. I am trying to get a good and positive
mental picture of my delivery, but I must not set up myself into a mood
where anything but would be felt afterward as a failure on my part. See what
I mean?

Oh my, I can already imagine the therapist's bill for the next few weeks...
;-)

Zaz said:

Well, after talking to some people and the midwife today, I was more able to
pinpoint what I am exactly fearing. It's not the birth itself so much as the
"after"... Basically, I am afraid of not being able to be a good mother, and
not be worthy of my daughter's love.

Oh, Isabelle, I can tell already from your earlier posts how much you love your
baby and what a good mother you are going to be.

This definitely comes from my wicked
relationship with my mother, and I must believe that my story with my
daughter will be different.

I'm sorry. :-( You already know you want it to be different and that's a step
in the right direction.


My midwife said it was a good sign that I could identify the cause for my
nauseas. She says it often happens that some women do feel nauseated at the
thought of birth, but don't talk about it and keep it all inside, thus
making everything harder when the time comes to deliver the child. She was
happy that I really thought about that, and that I could identify the causes
of my fears. She didn't tell me it would go away, but she said that the fact
that I am thinking about it and exteriorising it is good.

She's right--it shows knowledge of yourself and that is really good.


As for the "confidence" with regards to childbirth, I think that while
confidence is important, it's also important not to get too much of a rosy
picture. Childbirth is not an idyllic experience, and I must be aware that
not all of it will be pleasant. I am trying to get a good and positive
mental picture of my delivery, but I must not set up myself into a mood
where anything but would be felt afterward as a failure on my part. See what
I mean?

I guess I'm feeling confidence is all-important because I've been re-reading
Open Season in preparation for my own birth and there is so much in there about
doctors going on and on about how difficult childbirth is and how dangerous and
basically setting women up for interventions and sections, while the author of
the book is preaching the naturalness and ease of birth.



Oh my, I can already imagine the therapist's bill for the next few weeks...
;-)

Money well-spent, but when you have your baby in your arms I am willing to bet
some of your fears will be eased. :-)


Leslie

Emily (2/4/91)
Jake (1/27/94)
Teddy (2/15/95)
William (3/5/01 -- VBA3C, 13 lbs. 5 oz.)
and Lorelei, expected 11/2/04

"Children come trailing clouds of glory from God, which is their home."
~ William Wordsworth

"Leslie" wrote in message
...
some stuff snipped


I guess I'm feeling confidence is all-important because I've been
re-reading
Open Season in preparation for my own birth and there is so much in there
about
doctors going on and on about how difficult childbirth is and how
dangerous and
basically setting women up for interventions and sections, while the
author of
the book is preaching the naturalness and ease of birth.

There is one thing I have to give to my midwife: she is giving me confidence
in my abilities to give birth. We have only briefly discussed the conditions
which could lead to a transfer to the hospital, as she said transfers are
ra we will do everything to avoid any medical intervention, and this baby
will be born naturally unless there is a *real* problem - not having any
doctors around will be a good thing, I believe.