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Interesting book and interesting idea



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 22nd 05, 04:47 PM
amb amb is offline
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First recorded activity by ParentingBanter: Jan 2005
Posts: 30
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[quote=Bob Whiteside]"J" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think the fifty state models could actually help with 14th amendment
challenges to unfair CS awards. Georgia just declared their guidelines
unconstitutional, maybe other states could follow? What about a
challenge based on equal protection because state formulas differ so
much? Just a thought....


14th amendment challenges to CS law have been tried repeatedly using
different legal tactical approaches. While there has been some success in
getting CS law ruled unconstitutional at the trial court level, the
appellate process has consistently overturned the trial court judges.

The legal logic used by appellate courts is the equal protection clause is
not intended to provide equality among individuals. Instead, it is intended
to provide equal application of the laws. Using this logic the courts rely
on what they call a "rational basis." They conclude the state legislature
had a rational basis for creating the law to support a legitimate state
purpose and the law is being applied equitably. (In the case of CS law the
legitimate state purpose is to provide for the care and maintenance of
children of divorced or separated parents, or in the case of adult children
attending school, to provide for an educated populace.)

What fathers have been unable to accomplish is to come up with a legal
argument that rises above the "rational basis" and get the courts to rule
under "strict scrutiny" legal definitions. To get to the strict scrutiny
level of decision making under the 14th amendment, fathers have to provide
an argument that they are a "suspect classification" within society. The
appellate courts have routinely denied all the arguments about fathers being
a suspect class, and go back to the fact all divorced or separated fathers
are treated the same way.

I have always thought fathers rights advocates should switch their legal
tactics away from how fathers are treated to attempts to show children and
second families are really the suspect classifications. And the unequal
treatment of subsequent children, step-children, second wives, etc. is where
the real 14th amendment challenges could be successful.[/QUOTE




Finally, I agree with you Bob.....that is what I have been promoting in second wives group, however they seem placid and refuse to get involved. The media and thought patterns of society are brainwashing women that the sole purpose of a man is to pay child support and never see their kids.....dang...life sucks.....]
  #22  
Old March 22nd 05, 08:39 PM
Bob Whiteside
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
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"amb" wrote in message
...

Bob Whiteside Wrote:
"J" wrote in message
oups.com...-
I think the fifty state models could actually help with 14th
amendment
challenges to unfair CS awards. Georgia just declared their
guidelines
unconstitutional, maybe other states could follow? What about a
challenge based on equal protection because state formulas differ so
much? Just a thought....-

14th amendment challenges to CS law have been tried repeatedly using
different legal tactical approaches. While there has been some success
in
getting CS law ruled unconstitutional at the trial court level, the
appellate process has consistently overturned the trial court judges.

The legal logic used by appellate courts is the equal protection clause
is
not intended to provide equality among individuals. Instead, it is
intended
to provide equal application of the laws. Using this logic the courts
rely
on what they call a "rational basis." They conclude the state
legislature
had a rational basis for creating the law to support a legitimate
state
purpose and the law is being applied equitably. (In the case of CS law
the
legitimate state purpose is to provide for the care and maintenance of
children of divorced or separated parents, or in the case of adult
children
attending school, to provide for an educated populace.)

What fathers have been unable to accomplish is to come up with a legal
argument that rises above the "rational basis" and get the courts to
rule
under "strict scrutiny" legal definitions. To get to the strict
scrutiny
level of decision making under the 14th amendment, fathers have to
provide
an argument that they are a "suspect classification" within society.
The
appellate courts have routinely denied all the arguments about fathers
being
a suspect class, and go back to the fact all divorced or separated
fathers
are treated the same way.

I have always thought fathers rights advocates should switch their
legal
tactics away from how fathers are treated to attempts to show children
and
second families are really the suspect classifications. And the
unequal
treatment of subsequent children, step-children, second wives, etc. is
where
the real 14th amendment challenges could be successful.Finally, I agree

with you Bob.....that is what I have been promoting in
second wives group, however they seem placid and refuse to get
involved. The media and thought patterns of society are brainwashing
women that the sole purpose of a man is to pay child support and never
see their kids.....dang...life sucks.....


The courts would be forced to use the "strict scrutiny" standard under
supreme court 14th amendment interpretations if a good argument about
violation of fundamental rights could be put together. There are numerous
instances in our laws where conflicts exist between parental rights and
children's rights. Since parental and children's rights are already defined
as fundamental rights that would be the best tactical way to get at father's
rights issues.

Here is an example - Stepparents have a financial obligation defined under
state law to support stepchildren. But if the CS calculation laws fail to
consider the stepparent's obligation to support their stepchildren, the
stepchildren are deprived of their fundamental right to equal support from a
stepparent. By treating first born children differently than subsequent
children CS law conflicts with the fundamental support responsibility
required under stepparent law.


  #23  
Old March 23rd 05, 03:00 AM
Patrick Lee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Ron,

It does not matter who administers it---it is illegal to force
anyone---a man, woman or
any combination thereof. Bloated, corrupt,
government, whether state or local, is just about politics as
usual...whatever is popular at
the time is what makes politicians tick. They
don't give a crap about individual citizens.

To administer any kind of forced payment, just
because a few people think it is the moral thing
to do, is a false premise which ends in defiance.

In practically every situation where government
gets envolved with dispensing morality via
legislation, failure is the end result!!

The only way for us to overcome a dispicable
government is to resist it with as much resource
as we have available to us, including every dirty
trick that they have used on us.

Resistance and going underground are acceptable...A f__king men and
hallelujah!!

  #24  
Old March 27th 05, 10:59 AM
The Beast
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



--

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
k.net...

"Gini" wrote in message
...
In article t, Bob

Whiteside
says...


"J" wrote in message
roups.com...
I think the fifty state models could actually help with 14th

amendment
challenges to unfair CS awards. Georgia just declared their

guidelines
unconstitutional, maybe other states could follow? What about a
challenge based on equal protection because state formulas differ so
much? Just a thought....

14th amendment challenges to CS law have been tried repeatedly using
different legal tactical approaches. While there has been some success

in
getting CS law ruled unconstitutional at the trial court level, the
appellate process has consistently overturned the trial court judges.

====
In *state* appellate courts--And it does not necessarily follow that

federal
courts would rule similarly.
====


That is true. Read Mark Levin's book "Men in Black: How the Supreme Court
is Destroying America" for a real eye opener on how the U.S. Supreme Court
has overstepped its constitutional authority and imposed personal

preferencewww,
policies on our nation regarding issues like marriage/divorce that are not
even mentioned in the U.S. Constitution.

So the question I have is simple - Why should five supreme court justices

be
allowed to rule on a state rights issue like marriage/divorce involving

only
one state and have their decision become the law of the land for all

states?



I have often thought there should be an amendment that requires the congress
to make a law after the scotus rules. IOW's scotus rules on an issue,then
the ruling would be taken up by the congress,debated, and laws changed or
created based on the ruling rather than the courts decision be followed as
law.Or maybe more congressional oversight should be applied After all, this
is a representitve republic,right? Not to mention the fact that the judicial
branch was to be the weakest branch...It seems to me that a system like that
would quell the *appearence* of judicial activism...I didnt say it was a
good idea...
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is
proof against all
arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that
principle is contempt prior to investigation."
--Herbert Spencer
theelectricguns.com


 




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