Fitz will have a field day

'Kate wrote in message

I would like to introduce a few ideas on abusive relationships and I
prefer to not use the thread already started because I'm not addressing
the views of anyone in particular.

We often cannot, because we are human, sense minute and temporary
changes in others until there is a pattern or prolonged period of
changed behavior. Changes in behavior are preceeded by changes in
thinking. We cannot see what people are thinking. We cannot predict
the behaviors of others.

Our need to view the world as stable, that it will exist tomorrow pretty
much as it does today, is the result of the limits of human cognition...
or how the brian/mind works. Humans understand the world by classifing,
categorizing, organizing, and sorting people, places, and things. We
label (or use symbolism) as a way to understand the world. Without this
ability, we would have to interpret the entire world each second of each
day from scratch. We wouldn't be able to classify and sort; we couldn't
use language, or visualize something. We wouldn't be able to give
directions or remember the look of our children. We couldn't form
friendships. We wouldn't be able to name an object. Cognitive
conservation is learned in middle school years. It is the precursor to
abstract thought.


But abstract thoughts must play a part too.
Qualty of life, humiliation, jealousy, envy, belittlement, betrayal etc.
The basic black and white thought proccess does not apply in matters of the
heart, especially a broken heart.

Dennis

'Kate wrote in message
*snipped*

My best advice to someone who has been in this situation is to give
yourself time to heal before getting into a new relationship, take time
with the relationship, and step back from it once in awhile to examine
it without the involvement of feelings about that person. It can mean
the difference between a future of happiness and a repeat of the past.

'Kate

Time heals all wounds, or so they say *grin*

Five years and still healing Some of us take longer than others and
that's good... LOL I'ts like being on the 12 step program...

HI! My name is Kim... I've been pretty danged stunned at times but I've
been 'clean' for 5 years now... Hmmmm I'm doing good...

How you doin?

"Joelle" wrote in message
...
I was just trying to state a fact to someone that hasn't been
there before t

Okay now I'm going to put forth an alternative to "Only someone who has
been in
the midst of a situation has anything valuable to say about it"
viewpoint...

Someone who has been in a situation certainly has a valuable perspective.
I
would submit it may not be the most objective perspective. It is one
perspective. It is an important perspective. It is not the only
perspective.

I think someone who has gone over and packed for women who have been
abused,
who has run out into the middle of the street and stood toe to toe with an
abuser telling him to get the hell away, someone who has driven I can't
even
count how many women to shelters and has listened to many many stories
from a
vantage point of outside of being in the middle and has seem similar
patterns
has something valuable to say about this subject as well.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

Very much so Joelle... You have a good heart... But the perspective you can
give is the one being on the outside looking in... I know I've heard many
perspecitves on that view... They all have the same venue and they all start
with "what are you getting out of this..." and the answer is "I don't know
at this point but it WILL get better, OR the ever important HEY, they are
lonly like this ONCE IN A WHILE -- the rest of the time they are fantastic
with me, the kids with the pets" OR.... "they are such a great parent I
can't take that away from my kids"... Then the person that needs to run
becomes the 'selfish one' because they had the audacity to LEAVE with the
kids -- thus taking them away from the fanatstic parent... It's a whole can
of worms Joelle, I guess that is what I was trying to say... Answering "what
were you getting out of it" is a very difficutl thing to do... People CAN
come up with responses... Only after time do you actually SEE what had been
done...

You may say "hey I was involved, remember I was the one packing up the
cloths, holding the little ones while momma or daddy shook so bad they
couoldn't hold the kids themselves, toting kids to the shelters... " Yes
you WERE involved in the AFTERMATH, in the CLEAN UP and bless you for being
there for those people because they NEED people to be there to help them, to
hold thier hands to guide them back into a (facsimile albiet) normal
routine... Watching something happen is the most difficult thing to do...
Have you ever had the opportunity to have several children standing behind
you while an enfurioated person levels a gun at your head? Hits you with a
2 x 4? Balls up a fist and rams it into your face? Have you ever seen
someone do it to another person LITERALLY SEE THEM do it? Or have you been
the one to walk in and clean up AFTER the 'victrum' FINALLY says... "ok I'm
out of here"?

I am not minimizing your part in all the good works you do... Ther
perspectives are different and I could go on and on... Because I've been the
one to stand infront of an animal with a gun, I've been the one to walk out
and say "enough -- no more", BUT I am now the one standing tall and FURIOUS
telling the jerk to go away, I now go toe to toe with them telling them that
they need help too and where to go get it, I'm the one holding the littles
and saying , "shhhhh it's ok now -- come on we'll go get you bathed and
tucked into a warm bed" and held them while they cried, I've also sat on
many a chair in the bathroom while mom baths holding the little bundle
because they were so afraid to be parted from momma...And because of going
through all this not once will you hear "so what WERE you getting out of
it?" REASON? No one knows... What they do know is they had to get out and
they know WHY... Those of us on the outside stand back, wait for the pieces
to finally shatter and pick them up, dust them off and begin gluing them
back together...

Hind sight is 20/20 LOL I can tell you why I ended up in the situations I
did... One I actually had NO choice but the other 2 I did... Shame on me it
did take me twice...

5 Years clean

"Joelle" wrote in message
...
If I add my point
of view, it isn't meant to criticize... although it may very well seem
like that at times... it is simply to add to the topic.

I didn't take what you had to say as a criticism, I didn't really even
have
anything much to argue with what you said, simply to clarify a few things.

The subject is certainly more complicated than people would assume.
People
tend to polarize it and make it a simply black and white issue. People are
more
complicated, which is not a bad thing. What is black and white is that it
is
wrong to abuse people. Period I don't think we have any argument there
.
Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

100%!!!

It's the grey area that people have to recover from

But the perspective you can
give is the one being on the outside looking in... I know I've heard many
perspecitves on that view

You don't believe that someone from the outside can see things you don't see
when you are in the middle of it?


perspecitves on that view... They all have the same venue and they all start
with "what are you getting out of this..." a

That's funny, I rarely hear anyone ask "what are you getting out of it" It's
usually "What the hell is the matter with you and why don't you just leave" I
agree that is a singularly unhelpful question. When I've asked "What might you
be getting out of staying" I've heard people say "Wow, I never thought of it
that way" So I'm kind of surprised to hear you say EVERYONE asks that question.

at this point but it WILL get better, OR the ever important HEY, they are
lonly like this ONCE IN A WHILE -- the rest of the time they are fantastic
with me, the kids with the pets"

But that's all about the other person, I'm not asking about the other person,
I'd be asking about you.

Answering "what
were you getting out of it" is a very difficutl thing to do.

Well yea, it's difficult. My daughter complained to her coach the other day
that the footwork she gave her to do was hard. Coach says "Yea, it's hard. If
it was easy for you I'd give you something harder"

Some of the most worthwhile things we do in life are difficult.

Have you ever had the opportunity

Okay I'm not playing this "My experience is more valuable than yours" which you
are getting close to starting. I say many perspectives are valuable. That's
all.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle