Greg's memory problems. Would someone mind ...

Kane, you made several very specific accusations
about what Fern said.

In answer you posted two links to mapquest, many other links
which do not work, and a link to one of YOUR posts where
yet again you try to PORTRAY what she said the way you want.

Why do you keep pretending this JUNK proves what you say?

Got a link to a message where Fern said those terrible things
you accuse her of?

After all, you claim you showed just such messages to your
"posse" very recently. Did you show them Fern's words
or did you show your "posse" your DEPICTION of Fern's words?

Issue Bond
Issue Church Directory as target list for investigations

THOSE were the constitutional issues.

You have been claiming otherwise.

Got another link that supports what YOU'VE been saying?






http://tinyurl.com/6
The above tinyurl took me to Mapquest.

The below link was to a message BY KANE
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...157b082?hl=en&


Message thread How do you spell relief?


From: 0:- - view profile
Date: Mon, Jun 5 2006 1:15 pm

Greegor wrote:
I have never seen news stories about
children hung from the rafters for spankings.

Kane HIMSELF wrote
The "rafters" claim was clarified as incorrect. "suspended" was the
term
used by investigating officers, as per media accounts.

Greg wrote
Have you got a link to a news story about that?

Kane wrote
Nope. Too long ago. They are in archives now that likely will cost money
to open.

Greg wrote
Please don't tell me it's in some NEJM article!
Or try to blame faulty info on a middle person..

Okay, I won't. But first you must prove to me that I said "article" and

that the info was faulty.

As for Fern:


""The children now in protective custody range in age from 5 months to
17 years. At a preliminary hearing, a police investigator testified
that Allen directed regular beatings of children. The youngsters were
tied up and suspended by their arms and hands, and "beaten with
switches, sticks or belts." Photographs produced at the hearing
showed welts on some of the victims, including one in the shape of a
belt buckle."


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ch...start=40&hl=en...
"
BOGUS link to a search??


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.r...god/msg/58b826...

BOGUS link that seems to go nowhere.

http://tinyurl.com/pza7z
NEWS STORY REPOSTED INTO A NEWSGROUP
NO REFERENCE TO FERN's COMMENTS

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...rowse_frm/thre...


http://tinyurl.com/nkfum
Notice who chimes in here in criticism of CPS on the church case, Greg.

Your mentor and boot owner.

"Catherine Woodgold"?? A message asserting GUILT??

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.r.../msg/9e4d66865...

http://tinyurl.com/mncvm


And here is what Fern Said:


"
Subject: WI Baptist principal and church investigated for abuse


"Trouble is, the principal was never notified he was listed on the
child abuse registry.


Also, he was never EVEN INTERVIEWED for his side of the story.


Also, CPS investigators in WI's office of DHHS, took the church
directory and further investigated members of the church.


Real constitutional violations. Typical of CPS. "


You may read the entire message, and see it's defense of actions Fern
had read about in media reports, and KNEW damn well these children had
been beaten.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....ol.christian/b...




http://tinyurl.com/p7xsz
HEY! A link where Fern explains!

WI Baptist principal vs. DHHS in Federal lawsuit
From: Fern5827 - view profile
Date: Fri, Jun 1 2001 9:24 am

Groups: misc.education.home-school.christian

From Wisconsin. Principal of Greenvale Baptist Church listed on
Wisconsin's
Child Abuse Registry as confirmed abuser.

Trouble is, CPS or DHHS in WI, never even interviewed the principal,
nor the
teacher witness.


Also, the membership directory of the ENTIRE CHURCH was computer
searched to
track down any "abusive parents."


Mr. Bond only found out he was listed as a confirmed abuser in
depositions
taken in the Federal Court Lawsuit.


Subject: Federal Court Lawsuit in WI against DHHS, CPPS
From: (Fern5827)
Date: 6/1/01 9:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:


Baptist Minister Troy Bond and entire church "investigated" by the
fishing,
trolling agents of CPS.


Bond listed as "confirmed child abuser". Paddled student in accordance
with
school's disciplinary code in handbook.


Entire church investigated.


Http://www.jsonline.com (Journal Sentinel Milwaukee newspaper.)
Search under
Troy Bond.


Any Midwesteners please add to this posting. TIA.

Kane wrote
Now, Greg, do YOU agree with Fern that constitutional rights of the
parents, who obviously DID beat their children and allow to be beaten,
are at issue, and CPS should NOT have intervened (think exigent
circumstances boy)?

The link points to Fern describing how Bond was
never notified that he was founded and marked
as a child abuser, until in Federal Court.

The link also points out that the CPS agency
used the entire freakin' church directory to
target church members.

Greegor wrote:
Kane, you made several very specific accusations
about what Fern said.

Yep. They were not all quotes.

In answer you posted two links to mapquest, many other links
which do not work, and a link to one of YOUR posts where
yet again you try to PORTRAY what she said the way you want.

Actually what I posted, as I recall, was quotes of prior posts that had
tinyURL links in them. Then I responded again pointing out that those
links had become overripe, rotted or soured.

I'm aware they were dead, now.

I then posted the updated links. Read them yet?

Why do you keep pretending this JUNK proves what you say?

Do you keep pretending you can't recognize an error out of someone's
control and accuse them of some kind of deliberate pretense?

Got a link to a message where Fern said those terrible things
you accuse her of?

Yes. Posted earlier today.

After all, you claim you showed just such messages to your
"posse" very recently.

I posted it HERE. YOU would not be in my "posse," Greg, if I had one.

I posted it directly to YOU in this ng.

Did you show them Fern's words
or did you show your "posse" your DEPICTION of Fern's words?

Nope. I posted what Fern said, and my understanding of it. You can look
at her words and show where they do NOT support the beating of children
by church members.

Should be easy. Go for it.

Issue Bond
Issue Church Directory as target list for investigations

Is this your argument above?

THOSE were the constitutional issues.

What constitutional issue protects church members who beat children?

You have been claiming otherwise.

Why would I claim such an issue is not a Constitutional one when it's
obvious the ONLY constitutional issue would be what are the children's
rights not to be beaten in church?

Got another link that supports what YOU'VE been saying?

No. I've posted plenty. You are ignoring them.

And this argument has all been done before.

You are using this, and every subject you can think up, to scatter chaff
to distract readers, and apparently yourself, from defending your claims
on "Dan the Felonious Copy Paste Criminal," and "how to use a declaring
in court you have committed a crime to beat CPS and get your daughter's
kids back."

The easy way out is to admit your were wrong, be a gentleman (R R R R R
R ) and apologize to those you have wronged, and get on with life, Greg.

Will you?

Fat chance.

I give this one much longer than the question on "use of lethal force,"
which only took you two years to answer.


http://tinyurl.com/6
The above tinyurl took me to Mapquest.

Yes, I posted very recently that I had discovered this myself and
provided the correct links.

The below link was to a message BY KANE
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...157b082?hl=en&


Message thread How do you spell relief?


From: 0:- - view profile
Date: Mon, Jun 5 2006 1:15 pm

Greegor wrote:
I have never seen news stories about
children hung from the rafters for spankings.

Kane HIMSELF wrote
The "rafters" claim was clarified as incorrect. "suspended" was the
term
used by investigating officers, as per media accounts.

Greg wrote
Have you got a link to a news story about that?

Kane wrote
Nope. Too long ago. They are in archives now that likely will cost money
to open.

Greg wrote
Please don't tell me it's in some NEJM article!
Or try to blame faulty info on a middle person..

Okay, I won't. But first you must prove to me that I said "article" and

that the info was faulty.

As for Fern:


""The children now in protective custody range in age from 5 months to
17 years. At a preliminary hearing, a police investigator testified
that Allen directed regular beatings of children. The youngsters were
tied up and suspended by their arms and hands, and "beaten with
switches, sticks or belts." Photographs produced at the hearing
showed welts on some of the victims, including one in the shape of a
belt buckle."


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ch...start=40&hl=en...
"
BOGUS link to a search??


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.r...god/msg/58b826...

BOGUS link that seems to go nowhere.

http://tinyurl.com/pza7z
NEWS STORY REPOSTED INTO A NEWSGROUP
NO REFERENCE TO FERN's COMMENTS

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...rowse_frm/thre...


http://tinyurl.com/nkfum
Notice who chimes in here in criticism of CPS on the church case, Greg.

Your mentor and boot owner.

"Catherine Woodgold"?? A message asserting GUILT??

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.r.../msg/9e4d66865...

http://tinyurl.com/mncvm


And here is what Fern Said:


"
Subject: WI Baptist principal and church investigated for abuse


"Trouble is, the principal was never notified he was listed on the
child abuse registry.


Also, he was never EVEN INTERVIEWED for his side of the story.


Also, CPS investigators in WI's office of DHHS, took the church
directory and further investigated members of the church.


Real constitutional violations. Typical of CPS. "


You may read the entire message, and see it's defense of actions Fern
had read about in media reports, and KNEW damn well these children had
been beaten.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....ol.christian/b...




http://tinyurl.com/p7xsz
HEY! A link where Fern explains!

WI Baptist principal vs. DHHS in Federal lawsuit
From: Fern5827 - view profile
Date: Fri, Jun 1 2001 9:24 am

Groups: misc.education.home-school.christian

From Wisconsin. Principal of Greenvale Baptist Church listed on
Wisconsin's
Child Abuse Registry as confirmed abuser.

Trouble is, CPS or DHHS in WI, never even interviewed the principal,
nor the
teacher witness.


Also, the membership directory of the ENTIRE CHURCH was computer
searched to
track down any "abusive parents."


Mr. Bond only found out he was listed as a confirmed abuser in
depositions
taken in the Federal Court Lawsuit.


Subject: Federal Court Lawsuit in WI against DHHS, CPPS
From: (Fern5827)
Date: 6/1/01 9:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:


Baptist Minister Troy Bond and entire church "investigated" by the
fishing,
trolling agents of CPS.


Bond listed as "confirmed child abuser". Paddled student in accordance
with
school's disciplinary code in handbook.


Entire church investigated.


Http://www.jsonline.com (Journal Sentinel Milwaukee newspaper.)
Search under
Troy Bond.


Any Midwesteners please add to this posting. TIA.

Kane wrote
Now, Greg, do YOU agree with Fern that constitutional rights of the
parents, who obviously DID beat their children and allow to be beaten,
are at issue, and CPS should NOT have intervened (think exigent
circumstances boy)?

The link points to Fern describing how Bond was
never notified that he was founded and marked
as a child abuser, until in Federal Court.

The link also points out that the CPS agency
used the entire freakin' church directory to
target church members.

And you take all this as NOT showing that Fern was defending children
being beaten in church by members of the church?

I made NO argument concerning that issue. I merely pointed out that Fern
had defended the actions of the church members.

Did she or did she not do so?

You are nothing if not inconsistent and thinking error prone, Greg.

This is what she posted:

" ""The children now in protective custody range in age from 5 months to
17 years. At a preliminary hearing, a police investigator testified
that Allen directed regular beatings of children. The youngsters were
tied up and suspended by their arms and hands, and "beaten with
switches, sticks or belts." Photographs produced at the hearing
showed welts on some of the victims, including one in the shape of a
belt buckle."
"
Then she proceeded from there to put up arguments in favor of the church
members.

I didn't ask if they were valid arguments. I said she "defended."

Did she defend?

Did they beat the children?

Do you think that the use of the directory for something NOT related to
the beatings is sufficient argument to excuse the beatings?

I'm quite happy with any findings that shows the use of the directory to
bring any charges is not acceptable...but the use of it to find out WHO
the church members are, if it was taken with warrant.

Is that okay with you that the children were beaten and do you believe
so because the right to do so is protected by the constitution?

We can let go of the "did Fern defend" because it's damned obvious that
is just what she was doing.

Would YOU like to claim she wasn't? Provide something in the way of proof.

Speak right UP boy.

0:-

PS Stop trying to dodge the "Dan is a Felonious Quoter" claim, Greg. K

Got any good Mapquest links Don?

0:- wrote:
Greegor wrote:
Kane, you made several very specific accusations
about what Fern said.

Yep. They were not all quotes.

In answer you posted two links to mapquest, many other links
which do not work, and a link to one of YOUR posts where
yet again you try to PORTRAY what she said the way you want.

Actually what I posted, as I recall, was quotes of prior posts that had
tinyURL links in them. Then I responded again pointing out that those
links had become overripe, rotted or soured.

I'm aware they were dead, now.

I then posted the updated links. Read them yet?

Why do you keep pretending this JUNK proves what you say?

Do you keep pretending you can't recognize an error out of someone's
control and accuse them of some kind of deliberate pretense?

Got a link to a message where Fern said those terrible things
you accuse her of?

Yes. Posted earlier today.

After all, you claim you showed just such messages to your
"posse" very recently.

I posted it HERE. YOU would not be in my "posse," Greg, if I had one.

I posted it directly to YOU in this ng.

Did you show them Fern's words
or did you show your "posse" your DEPICTION of Fern's words?

Nope. I posted what Fern said, and my understanding of it. You can look
at her words and show where they do NOT support the beating of children
by church members.

Should be easy. Go for it.

Issue Bond
Issue Church Directory as target list for investigations

Is this your argument above?

THOSE were the constitutional issues.

What constitutional issue protects church members who beat children?

You have been claiming otherwise.

Why would I claim such an issue is not a Constitutional one when it's
obvious the ONLY constitutional issue would be what are the children's
rights not to be beaten in church?

Got another link that supports what YOU'VE been saying?

No. I've posted plenty. You are ignoring them.

And this argument has all been done before.

You are using this, and every subject you can think up, to scatter chaff
to distract readers, and apparently yourself, from defending your claims
on "Dan the Felonious Copy Paste Criminal," and "how to use a declaring
in court you have committed a crime to beat CPS and get your daughter's
kids back."

The easy way out is to admit your were wrong, be a gentleman (R R R R R
R ) and apologize to those you have wronged, and get on with life, Greg.

Will you?

Fat chance.

I give this one much longer than the question on "use of lethal force,"
which only took you two years to answer.


http://tinyurl.com/6
The above tinyurl took me to Mapquest.

Yes, I posted very recently that I had discovered this myself and
provided the correct links.

The below link was to a message BY KANE
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...157b082?hl=en&


Message thread How do you spell relief?


From: 0:- - view profile
Date: Mon, Jun 5 2006 1:15 pm

Greegor wrote:
I have never seen news stories about
children hung from the rafters for spankings.

Kane HIMSELF wrote
The "rafters" claim was clarified as incorrect. "suspended" was the
term
used by investigating officers, as per media accounts.

Greg wrote
Have you got a link to a news story about that?

Kane wrote
Nope. Too long ago. They are in archives now that likely will cost money
to open.

Greg wrote
Please don't tell me it's in some NEJM article!
Or try to blame faulty info on a middle person..

Okay, I won't. But first you must prove to me that I said "article" and

that the info was faulty.

As for Fern:


""The children now in protective custody range in age from 5 months to
17 years. At a preliminary hearing, a police investigator testified
that Allen directed regular beatings of children. The youngsters were
tied up and suspended by their arms and hands, and "beaten with
switches, sticks or belts." Photographs produced at the hearing
showed welts on some of the victims, including one in the shape of a
belt buckle."


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ch...start=40&hl=en...
"
BOGUS link to a search??


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.r...god/msg/58b826...

BOGUS link that seems to go nowhere.

http://tinyurl.com/pza7z
NEWS STORY REPOSTED INTO A NEWSGROUP
NO REFERENCE TO FERN's COMMENTS

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...rowse_frm/thre...


http://tinyurl.com/nkfum
Notice who chimes in here in criticism of CPS on the church case, Greg.

Your mentor and boot owner.

"Catherine Woodgold"?? A message asserting GUILT??

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.r.../msg/9e4d66865...

http://tinyurl.com/mncvm


And here is what Fern Said:


"
Subject: WI Baptist principal and church investigated for abuse


"Trouble is, the principal was never notified he was listed on the
child abuse registry.


Also, he was never EVEN INTERVIEWED for his side of the story.


Also, CPS investigators in WI's office of DHHS, took the church
directory and further investigated members of the church.


Real constitutional violations. Typical of CPS. "


You may read the entire message, and see it's defense of actions Fern
had read about in media reports, and KNEW damn well these children had
been beaten.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....ol.christian/b...




http://tinyurl.com/p7xsz
HEY! A link where Fern explains!

WI Baptist principal vs. DHHS in Federal lawsuit
From: Fern5827 - view profile
Date: Fri, Jun 1 2001 9:24 am

Groups: misc.education.home-school.christian

From Wisconsin. Principal of Greenvale Baptist Church listed on
Wisconsin's
Child Abuse Registry as confirmed abuser.

Trouble is, CPS or DHHS in WI, never even interviewed the principal,
nor the
teacher witness.


Also, the membership directory of the ENTIRE CHURCH was computer
searched to
track down any "abusive parents."


Mr. Bond only found out he was listed as a confirmed abuser in
depositions
taken in the Federal Court Lawsuit.


Subject: Federal Court Lawsuit in WI against DHHS, CPPS
From: (Fern5827)
Date: 6/1/01 9:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:


Baptist Minister Troy Bond and entire church "investigated" by the
fishing,
trolling agents of CPS.


Bond listed as "confirmed child abuser". Paddled student in accordance
with
school's disciplinary code in handbook.


Entire church investigated.


Http://www.jsonline.com (Journal Sentinel Milwaukee newspaper.)
Search under
Troy Bond.


Any Midwesteners please add to this posting. TIA.

Kane wrote
Now, Greg, do YOU agree with Fern that constitutional rights of the
parents, who obviously DID beat their children and allow to be beaten,
are at issue, and CPS should NOT have intervened (think exigent
circumstances boy)?

The link points to Fern describing how Bond was
never notified that he was founded and marked
as a child abuser, until in Federal Court.

The link also points out that the CPS agency
used the entire freakin' church directory to
target church members.

And you take all this as NOT showing that Fern was defending children
being beaten in church by members of the church?

I made NO argument concerning that issue. I merely pointed out that Fern
had defended the actions of the church members.

Did she or did she not do so?

You are nothing if not inconsistent and thinking error prone, Greg.

This is what she posted:

" ""The children now in protective custody range in age from 5 months to
17 years. At a preliminary hearing, a police investigator testified
that Allen directed regular beatings of children. The youngsters were
tied up and suspended by their arms and hands, and "beaten with
switches, sticks or belts." Photographs produced at the hearing
showed welts on some of the victims, including one in the shape of a
belt buckle."
"
Then she proceeded from there to put up arguments in favor of the church
members.

I didn't ask if they were valid arguments. I said she "defended."

Did she defend?

Did they beat the children?

Do you think that the use of the directory for something NOT related to
the beatings is sufficient argument to excuse the beatings?

I'm quite happy with any findings that shows the use of the directory to
bring any charges is not acceptable...but the use of it to find out WHO
the church members are, if it was taken with warrant.

Is that okay with you that the children were beaten and do you believe
so because the right to do so is protected by the constitution?

We can let go of the "did Fern defend" because it's damned obvious that
is just what she was doing.

Would YOU like to claim she wasn't? Provide something in the way of proof.

Speak right UP boy.

0:-

PS Stop trying to dodge the "Dan is a Felonious Quoter" claim, Greg. K