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#31
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Is this racist?
In article , just me says...
"Joni Rathbun" wrote in message ... The singular "black" would also be appropriate when referring to the dogs commonly known as "Black and Tans." Black and Tan is a specific breed. To refer to more than one B&T, you say "Black and Tans" not "Blacks and Tans." BTW, I found a copy of the bumper sticker online. Here it is: http://www.huntsmart.com/index.cfm/f...l-1417/ss/1417 Yeah, now that I see one I think I've seen them before. Hunting bumper stickers. Wonder what Wendy would have thought of the "I hunt English" bumper sticker :-) Banty |
#32
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Is this racist?
Wendy Marsden wrote in
: toto wrote: Perhaps, perhaps not. We cannot tell what was in the person's mind, but the double entendre is there if one knows that black people were called coons at one time in this country and that this derived from the raccoon that black and tans are used to hunt. Thank you, yes, that is exactly what was on my mind. I will grant you, though, that not everyone is as educated about the deplorable history you related as you and I are. In fact, in may just live on as a bit of a cutesy double entendre now. But I wince when I hear someone joking about coon hunting. i am well aware of the history, however i do not believe that it helps anyone to become an apologist & overly politically correct after the fact. the word coon referred to racoons long before it was applied to blacks. perceiving a double entendre where none is intended says more about the perceiver than the owner of the bumpersticker. in all likelyhood the owner of the bumpersticker would be shocked to be told it *could* be taked as racist! I live in an area with a significant Hispanic immigrant population. They are "tan". My guess is that they encounter more racism in my area than blacks do. are they *called* tans? i've never heard tan used as a racist slur. 75 years ago in my area two Italian immigrants named Sacco and Vanzetti were persecuted and executed for a crime they quite obviously did not commit because they were tan. excuse me? Sacco & Vanzetti were tan? they spent a lot of time in the sun? not all Italians are "tan". that's you making a racist leap, you know... there *are* very fair Italians. now shall we blame the persecution (and enslaving) of the Irish on thier being tan? I heard someone mention that I was being overly politically correct. I would counter that by saying that I'm overly educated in what impolitic things people do when they aren't behaving themselves. sigh people are jerks. however pretending that teaching political correctness solves the problem of discrimination is not true. it does however seem to teach one to find slights where none were intended... i believe we need to do a better job of teaching history, without focusing on one or two groups that were treated badly... we have a long history of treating anyone different poorly, the indiginous peoples, the blacks, the Irish, the Italians, the Quakers, Catholics, the Mormons... pick a group & probably somewhere in the country it was persecuted. it really doesn't help to be apologists after the fact. we need a much better way than PC to prevent future occurances. AFAIC, PC just talks pretty, but doesn't solve the underlying problem. lee -- It is paradoxical that many educators and parents still differentiate between a time for learning and a time for play without seeing the vital connection between them. -Leo Buscaglia, author (1924-1998) |
#33
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Is this racist?
My DH drinks 'ding-a-ling' beer, too! I hate the stuff.
Kim |
#34
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Is this racist?
"Banty" wrote in message
... In article , just me says... "Joni Rathbun" wrote in message ... The singular "black" would also be appropriate when referring to the dogs commonly known as "Black and Tans." Black and Tan is a specific breed. To refer to more than one B&T, you say "Black and Tans" not "Blacks and Tans." BTW, I found a copy of the bumper sticker online. Here it is: http://www.huntsmart.com/index.cfm/f.../9232539682248 78892331/eid/28/lh/h-0,l-1417/ss/1417 Yeah, now that I see one I think I've seen them before. Hunting bumper stickers. Wonder what Wendy would have thought of the "I hunt English" bumper sticker :-) tell you one thing, "coon" is a racist word in australia, so what would we make of self-proclaimed coon hunters generally?? aaaaghhhh! kylie |
#35
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Is this racist?
On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 22:40:47 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote: no i mean about people getting so uptight about perceived insults with regard to colour. normally, from i what i have seen its whites getting upset, on the other persons behalf. Yes, this does happen but I spend a whole lot of my time working with people... of color. And a whole lot of them take insult at anything and everything no matter how far fetched, especially if it comes from a white person. Indeed, one day a mother reported to our principal that I called her a n*gger when, in fact, I hadn't called her anything and the only words I spoke to her were, "Here you go. You can give this to me or to the principal when you've finished filling it out!" Then I opened the elevator for her and smiled. So am I careful? You're damned right I'm careful. I was alone with that woman and it was her word against mine. I was a brand new employee at the time with no local history. That woman knew exactly what she was doing. My saving grace: a principal with a brain and an accuser who had a NEGATIVE history. I worked with two girl scout troops when my dd was in middle school and high school. Her troop was a very mixed bag with lots of different ethnicities. Most of those girls seemed not to be overly sensitive to the insults even the African-American girls didn't see slurs where there were none. but their sister troop was predominantly Aftican-American. Whenever the older troop travelled into all-white or mostly white areas, they thought people were staring at them and didn't feel comfortable until we returned to the city where they saw many more black faces. At several events, the other leader and I had to ask them to closely observe particular people's behavior before accusing them of racism. In many cases, these people behaved as rudely to whites as to blacks or the fault lay in incompetence not in racism. I think that sometimes, when the pervasive experience is of racism, the perceptions become more developed and slights are seen in places where they are really not racist at all. I think that parents and teachers of both races need to really observe and see which is which. And we need to teach children, especially teenagers to do the same. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. Outer Limits |
#36
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Is this racist?
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#37
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Is this racist?
"Cheryl S." wrote:
Iuil wrote in message ... "Barbara Bomberger" wrote A black and tan is a dog (usualoly used for hunting, but the description of my beagle colors are black and tan( Heh. In my world a "Black and tan" is either a drink (half Guinness and half ale) or a British soldier from the period of the Irish War of Independence (1919-1921). I was looking to see if anyone else said they thought of beer, not people, when they read "black and tan". Glad to know I'm not the only one. :-) You aren't the only one Cheryl:-) My first thought was the beer. I can't stand the stuff but dh is a 'beer snob' and brewer. The dogs came a distinct second. And a racial slur? not at all. K- |
#38
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Is this racist?
toto wrote:
Wonder what Wendy would have thought of the "I hunt English" bumper sticker :-) Reference to the US revolution? vbg Nope, that wouldn't work. I taught the Revolutionary War last summer. The colonists called themselves "English", too. For it to make sense they would have to be saying, "I hunt Lobsterbacks" or something like that. But there wasn't really any tradition of "hunting" the enemy, anyway. Wendy |
#39
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Is this racist?
"llama mama" wrote: Thank you, yes, that is exactly what was on my mind. I will grant you, though, that not everyone is as educated about the deplorable history you related as you and I are. In fact, in may just live on as a bit of a cutesy double entendre now. But I wince when I hear someone joking about coon hunting. i am well aware of the history, however i do not believe that it helps anyone to become an apologist & overly politically correct after the fact. the word coon referred to racoons long before it was applied to blacks. That doesn't mean that people should be berated for not knowing that. I would've had the same questions as the OP, and I live in Kentucky, home of Daniel Boone and the coonskin cap. But I've never heard the phrase "black and tans". perceiving a double entendre where none is intended You really cannot say for certain that none was intended. Unless it was your car that was seen, you don't know. OTOH, one cannot say that it *was* intended either, but I don't think that anyone has said that. Only the possibility was raised. Nothing wrong with that. says more about the perceiver than the owner of the bumpersticker. It really doesn't say anything about anyone. Attempting to do so is just an exercise in fiction. in all likelyhood the owner of the bumpersticker would be shocked to be told it *could* be taked as racist! I would be shocked if the driver wasn't aware of that possibility, even though it likely wasn't his intent. Intelligent people are aware of different usages of different words. P. Tierney |
#40
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Is this racist?
"P. Tierney" wrote in message
et... I would be shocked if the driver wasn't aware of that possibility, even though it likely wasn't his intent. Intelligent people are aware of different usages of different words. If the bumper sticker had referenced coons or blacks only the double entendre might have been obvious. I'm with the other posters who have never ever in my life heard the term "tan" used in a fashion the was derogatory towards a particular identifiable group of people other than those who have been outdoors long enough to get a temporary pigment change of their skin. And, calling someone tan in that regards is usually a compliment. There is the "tan your hide", but once again, I don't hear any connection to "hunt black &". Really, aren't some here just grasping at straws as regards this particular bumper sticker? While being aware of how others might take our remarks is appropriate, I think that *this* reference is a bit out there. -Aula --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 8/4/03 |
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