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TEN TIPS WHEN THE SOCIAL WORKER IS AT YOUR DOOR



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 4th 07, 02:48 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents
Greegor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,243
Default TEN TIPS WHEN THE SOCIAL WORKER IS AT YOUR DOOR

http://www.fdno.org/10_tips.html

TEN TIPS WHEN THE SOCIAL WORKER IS AT YOUR DOOR
Detective Robert R. Surgenor (Retired)
Family Defense Network of Ohio

In February of 2001, two social workers and two police officers
approached the residence of a home educating family in Vermilion,
Ohio, and indicated that they were investigating allegations of child
neglect. The parents refused to let the officers into the home unless
they possessed a warrant or court order. The social workers stated
that they did not need a warrant. The police officers threatened to
arrest the father for "Obstructing Official Business" unless they were
allowed entry into the home. Faced with the threat of arrest, the
officers were allowed entry. An inspection was made of the home, and
the social workers and police officers left the premises without any
further action taken. The parents filed a lawsuit in Federal Court,
claiming that their Fourth Amendment rights had been violated. They
were correct!

The Fourth Amendment states, "The right of the people to be secure in
their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable
searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall
issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and
particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or
things to be seized." Ohio law reflects this wording in Ohio Revised
Code Section 2933.22.

In order for an officer of the court to enter your home against your
will, be it a social worker or police officer, he or she must have a
warrant in their hand when they step through the door. If anyone has
evidence that you have committed a crime, that evidence must be
presented to a judge, while under oath or affirmation, and the judge
must decide whether that evidence contains enough "probable cause" for
him or her to issue the warrant. The evidence presented to a judge
must indicate that you have committed a crime.

During my twenty years as a police officer, if I already had enough
evidence that a person was committing a crime in a home, I never
attempted to enter the home without the warrant already in my hand.
There were plenty of times I tried to bluff my way into a suspect's
house without a warrant, but only when I did not have enough evidence
to charge the person with a crime. My attempts to be let into the home
was for the purpose of building a case and collecting evidence once I
was in the home that might convince a judge to give me the warrant I
needed. Unlike the Vermilion officer, I never threatened to arrest the
homeowner for "Obstructing Official Business" if he didn't allow me to
enter the home, but I used numerous tactics and techniques to convince
that resident that it was in his best interest to cooperate with me.

In December of 2002, The United States District Court in Ohio ruled
against the two social workers and two police officers in the
Vermilion case. The Court stated: "Despite the defendant's exaggerated
view of their powers, the Fourth Amendment applies to them, as it does
to all other officers and agents of the state whose request to enter,
however benign or well-intentioned, are met by a closed door." The
Court also stated "The Fourth Amendment's prohibition on unreasonable
searches and seizures applies whenever an investigator, be it a police
officer, a DCFS employee, or any other agent of the state, responds to
an alleged instance of child abuse, neglect, or dependency." The court
also ruled that the social workers and police officers were liable,
and could be sued for their actions.

Below are several recommendations on how to handle a social worker or
police officer at your door that is investigating allegations of child
abuse or neglect.

1) If possible, document the conversation with a video camera or audio
tape recorder. If possible, conceal the camera or recorder so that the
social worker or police officer is unaware of the taping. This type of
recording on your own property is never illegal, no matter what you
are told by the social worker or police officer.

2) Identify the persons at your door. Write their names down or, if
possible, obtain their business cards. In addition to the names of the
police officers, obtain their badge number. If possible, ask for the
name of the person's immediate supervisor.

3) Ask the social worker or police officer if they have a warrant or
court order that authorizes them to enter your home against your will.
If the social worker or officer insists that they do not need a
warrant under the circumstances, provide them with a copy of the
enclosed bulletin, "UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT RULES AGAINST OHIO
SOCIAL WORKERS AND POLICE OFFICERS." Advise the investigator or
officer that you will be glad to cooperate and allow them to enter
your home if they possess a warrant or court order signed by a judge
or magistrate. Under certain conditions, called "exigent
circumstances," such as "hot pursuit" and "emergency," officers are
allowed to enter a home without a warrant, but these instances are few
and far between. An example of "hot pursuit" would be an officer who
observed a robbery pursuing the criminal to the front door of his
house where he slammed the door. The officer can enter that home
without a warrant. An emergency would involve the "immediate need" to
rescue someone from serious harm. An officer hearing gunshots and a
screaming woman would perceive an "emergency," and would be justified
in entering the home without a warrant. A social worker investigating
allegations of child abuse or neglect would rarely be exempt from the
warrant rule.

4) The same rule applies whenever an officer of the court, be it a
social worker, police officer, or deputy sheriff, wants you to do
anything against your will. You cannot be made to "report to the
office" of the social worker or to "bring your children in for an
interview" without being served with a court order. Only a judge or
magistrate, presented with evidence that you have committed a crime,
can issue an order that you are obligated to obey.

5) Ask the investigators the nature of the complaint against you. Ask
them to give you the actual state statute number or local ordinance
that you have alleged to have violated.

6) Always keep handy a copy of Ohio's laws pertaining to parental
authority and child abuse. A copy of those laws is also enclosed. Read
these laws and become familiar with them. On one occasion, a mother
was being questioned at her front door by a police officer ignorant of
the child abuse laws. The mother provided the officer with a copy of
the law. The officer postponed his plan to arrest the mother, and
later apologized for not being aware of the legal right of a parent to
spank their children.

7) If the social worker or police officer uses force to enter you
home, DO NOT RESIST in any way. Even if the entry into your home is
unwarranted, you cannot physically resist the officer. Even passive
resistance (remaining seated when told by a police officer to stand)
is cause for arrest. Simply advise the social worker or police officer
that they do not have your permission to enter, and that if they
continue entry into your home without your permission, you will pursue
legal action against them.

8) Record all of your telephone conversations with employees of the
Department of Children's Services and the police department. In Ohio,
it is not necessary to inform other people involved on the telephone
line that the conversation is being recorded as long as one person who
is actively engaged in the conversation is aware that it is being
recorded (See Ohio Revised Code Section 2933.52). In other words, if
you are talking to a social worker on the telephone, you can record
the conversation without the social worker being aware of the
recording, and the recorded conversation is legal and can be presented
in court as evidence at a later date. Electronic stores sell telephone
taps that simply plug into the telephone line and allow the
conversation to be routed into a portable tape recorder. They
generally cost between twenty and thirty dollars and are extremely
simple to use.

9) Compile a list of emergency telephone numbers that will be handy
should you encounter any type of confrontation with authorities over
the rearing or discipline of your children. The Family Defense Network
of Ohio is compiling a list of criminal defense attorneys who will be
available if you are wrongly arrested by the police. This list is
updated regularly and is available by calling the FDNO at
1-800-438-8277.

10) Do NOT be afraid to stand up for your rights and protections under
the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution. The Vermilion
home educating family decided to stand up for what was right. They not
only won thousands of dollars in damages, they established precedent
that helped families all over this land. Ohio law protects the parent
who wishes to raise their children in the manner prescribed by God.
Parents are obligated to utilize that protection. Proverbs 19:20 says
"Hear counsel, and receive instruction, that thou mayest be wise in
thy latter end."

  #2  
Old February 4th 07, 07:57 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents
0:->
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,968
Default TEN TIPS WHEN THE SOCIAL WORKER IS AT YOUR DOOR

Greegor wrote:
http://www.fdno.org/10_tips.html


Three points, all as questions for you.

1 - Have you distributed this on "parent" related newsgroups?
2 - When did you last see a parent visiting here BEFORE CPS was at the door?
3 - Isn't this the same Surgenor that wrote a book on teen crime and
spanking, claimed that the teens he was confronting as a police officer
had never been spanked and were thus 'out of control' while later in his
own book recounted they had indeed been "spanked," just not enough?

He even claimed teen crime was up, when in fact it had been going down
for decades prior to his authorship. Very strange thinking, but of
course a wonderful appeal to the emotions of the public based on media
handling of such information.

If you think Surgenor has finely tuned judgment you need to read this
thread discussing him and his literary adventures.

An do note that in some instances that are very important he limits
himself to the statutes of a single state.

Or is this an "Ohio" based group?

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...d51cafc0123ff6
http://tinyurl.com/yva9sy

In addition, Greg, you now have posted the suggestions of one of those
admitted government agents that will "trick" people into complying with
them.

You are about as inconsistent today as your posting history shows you to
have been from your first post to Usenet.

You have learned nothing in six years, apparently, but how to
consistently lose, and keep a mother and her daughter apart.

Is this the kind of source you would advise parents engaged with CPS to use?

Surgenor, from your own posted citation:

.... There were plenty of times I tried to bluff my way into a suspect's
house without a warrant, but only when I did not have enough evidence
to charge the person with a crime. My attempts to be let into the home
was for the purpose of building a case and collecting evidence once I
was in the home that might convince a judge to give me the warrant I
needed. ...

TEN TIPS WHEN THE SOCIAL WORKER IS AT YOUR DOOR
Detective Robert R. Surgenor (Retired)
Family Defense Network of Ohio

In February of 2001, two social workers and two police officers
approached the residence of a home educating family in Vermilion,
Ohio, and indicated that they were investigating allegations of child
neglect. The parents refused to let the officers into the home unless
they possessed a warrant or court order. The social workers stated
that they did not need a warrant. The police officers threatened to
arrest the father for "Obstructing Official Business" unless they were
allowed entry into the home. Faced with the threat of arrest, the
officers were allowed entry. An inspection was made of the home, and
the social workers and police officers left the premises without any
further action taken. The parents filed a lawsuit in Federal Court,
claiming that their Fourth Amendment rights had been violated. They
were correct!

The Fourth Amendment states, "The right of the people to be secure in
their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable
searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall
issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and
particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or
things to be seized." Ohio law reflects this wording in Ohio Revised
Code Section 2933.22.

In order for an officer of the court to enter your home against your
will, be it a social worker or police officer, he or she must have a
warrant in their hand when they step through the door. If anyone has
evidence that you have committed a crime, that evidence must be
presented to a judge, while under oath or affirmation, and the judge
must decide whether that evidence contains enough "probable cause" for
him or her to issue the warrant. The evidence presented to a judge
must indicate that you have committed a crime.

During my twenty years as a police officer, if I already had enough
evidence that a person was committing a crime in a home, I never
attempted to enter the home without the warrant already in my hand.
There were plenty of times I tried to bluff my way into a suspect's
house without a warrant, but only when I did not have enough evidence
to charge the person with a crime. My attempts to be let into the home
was for the purpose of building a case and collecting evidence once I
was in the home that might convince a judge to give me the warrant I
needed. Unlike the Vermilion officer, I never threatened to arrest the
homeowner for "Obstructing Official Business" if he didn't allow me to
enter the home, but I used numerous tactics and techniques to convince
that resident that it was in his best interest to cooperate with me.

In December of 2002, The United States District Court in Ohio ruled
against the two social workers and two police officers in the
Vermilion case. The Court stated: "Despite the defendant's exaggerated
view of their powers, the Fourth Amendment applies to them, as it does
to all other officers and agents of the state whose request to enter,
however benign or well-intentioned, are met by a closed door." The
Court also stated "The Fourth Amendment's prohibition on unreasonable
searches and seizures applies whenever an investigator, be it a police
officer, a DCFS employee, or any other agent of the state, responds to
an alleged instance of child abuse, neglect, or dependency." The court
also ruled that the social workers and police officers were liable,
and could be sued for their actions.

Below are several recommendations on how to handle a social worker or
police officer at your door that is investigating allegations of child
abuse or neglect.

1) If possible, document the conversation with a video camera or audio
tape recorder. If possible, conceal the camera or recorder so that the
social worker or police officer is unaware of the taping. This type of
recording on your own property is never illegal, no matter what you
are told by the social worker or police officer.

2) Identify the persons at your door. Write their names down or, if
possible, obtain their business cards. In addition to the names of the
police officers, obtain their badge number. If possible, ask for the
name of the person's immediate supervisor.

3) Ask the social worker or police officer if they have a warrant or
court order that authorizes them to enter your home against your will.
If the social worker or officer insists that they do not need a
warrant under the circumstances, provide them with a copy of the
enclosed bulletin, "UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT RULES AGAINST OHIO
SOCIAL WORKERS AND POLICE OFFICERS." Advise the investigator or
officer that you will be glad to cooperate and allow them to enter
your home if they possess a warrant or court order signed by a judge
or magistrate. Under certain conditions, called "exigent
circumstances," such as "hot pursuit" and "emergency," officers are
allowed to enter a home without a warrant, but these instances are few
and far between. An example of "hot pursuit" would be an officer who
observed a robbery pursuing the criminal to the front door of his
house where he slammed the door. The officer can enter that home
without a warrant. An emergency would involve the "immediate need" to
rescue someone from serious harm. An officer hearing gunshots and a
screaming woman would perceive an "emergency," and would be justified
in entering the home without a warrant. A social worker investigating
allegations of child abuse or neglect would rarely be exempt from the
warrant rule.


4) The same rule applies whenever an officer of the court, be it a
social worker, police officer, or deputy sheriff, wants you to do
anything against your will. You cannot be made to "report to the
office" of the social worker or to "bring your children in for an
interview" without being served with a court order. Only a judge or
magistrate, presented with evidence that you have committed a crime,
can issue an order that you are obligated to obey.

5) Ask the investigators the nature of the complaint against you. Ask
them to give you the actual state statute number or local ordinance
that you have alleged to have violated.

6) Always keep handy a copy of Ohio's laws pertaining to parental
authority and child abuse. A copy of those laws is also enclosed. Read
these laws and become familiar with them. On one occasion, a mother
was being questioned at her front door by a police officer ignorant of
the child abuse laws. The mother provided the officer with a copy of
the law. The officer postponed his plan to arrest the mother, and
later apologized for not being aware of the legal right of a parent to
spank their children.

7) If the social worker or police officer uses force to enter you
home, DO NOT RESIST in any way. Even if the entry into your home is
unwarranted, you cannot physically resist the officer. Even passive
resistance (remaining seated when told by a police officer to stand)
is cause for arrest. Simply advise the social worker or police officer
that they do not have your permission to enter, and that if they
continue entry into your home without your permission, you will pursue
legal action against them.

8) Record all of your telephone conversations with employees of the
Department of Children's Services and the police department. In Ohio,
it is not necessary to inform other people involved on the telephone
line that the conversation is being recorded as long as one person who
is actively engaged in the conversation is aware that it is being
recorded (See Ohio Revised Code Section 2933.52). In other words, if
you are talking to a social worker on the telephone, you can record
the conversation without the social worker being aware of the
recording, and the recorded conversation is legal and can be presented
in court as evidence at a later date. Electronic stores sell telephone
taps that simply plug into the telephone line and allow the
conversation to be routed into a portable tape recorder. They
generally cost between twenty and thirty dollars and are extremely
simple to use.

9) Compile a list of emergency telephone numbers that will be handy
should you encounter any type of confrontation with authorities over
the rearing or discipline of your children. The Family Defense Network
of Ohio is compiling a list of criminal defense attorneys who will be
available if you are wrongly arrested by the police. This list is
updated regularly and is available by calling the FDNO at
1-800-438-8277.

10) Do NOT be afraid to stand up for your rights and protections under
the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution. The Vermilion
home educating family decided to stand up for what was right. They not
only won thousands of dollars in damages, they established precedent
that helped families all over this land. Ohio law protects the parent
who wishes to raise their children in the manner prescribed by God.
Parents are obligated to utilize that protection. Proverbs 19:20 says
"Hear counsel, and receive instruction, that thou mayest be wise in
thy latter end."


So, Greg, have you sent this to suitable newsgroups?

Kane

  #3  
Old February 4th 07, 08:14 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents
0:->
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,968
Default TEN TIPS WHEN THE SOCIAL WORKER IS AT YOUR DOOR

When seeking information about what the state and cannot do it is always
advisable to both read the statute, and have it explained by competent
counsel.

You may think you see something that in fact is not there. Or not see
something that in fact is, if you understood the language more clearly.

The cite below is an example, and not the rule, but generally states do
follow similar guidelines by statute. Check YOURS.

Greg, when you post your citation of Surgenor to parent related
newsgroups, would you be so kind as to include my post below, under but
exclusive of the line "......available in prior post...."

Thank you for your interest in this subject so vital to people BEFORE
they become involved with CPS or the police in child protection matters
and to it's proper and timely presentation.

Greegor wrote:
http://www.fdno.org/10_tips.html

TEN TIPS WHEN THE SOCIAL WORKER IS AT YOUR DOOR
Detective Robert R. Surgenor (Retired)
Family Defense Network of Ohio

.......available in prior post....

1 What are "exigent circumstances?"
2 Where may a child be interviewed, under what circumstances?

See *** and ****

In Indiana child protection they a

http://www.in.gov/dcs/pdf/policies/cwmanual2a.pdf

205.422 Exceptions to the Requirement to Obtain Parental Consent to
Interview a Child
(1) If the child is committed to a facility operated by the
Department of Correction, it is only necessary to obtain
permission to interview from the superintendent of the
facility.
(2) If the child is under the care and supervision of the county
office (COFC) and parental rights have been terminated,
permission to interview may be obtained from the family case
manager (FCM).

****(3) If the parent(s) is the alleged perpetrator, and there are
immediate concerns for the child’s safety, it may not be
possible or prudent to attempt to obtain parental permission to
interview the child. In such cases, the child may be
interviewed without parental permission. The interview may
occur in the school setting with the permission of the
appropriate school authority.

*** (4) There may be exigent circumstances that would warrant
concerns for the child’s safety. In these circumstances,
permission of the parent to interview the child is not required.
Examples: The child may be experiencing sexual abuse at the
hands of a non-parent, guardian or custodian, and the parent,
guardian or custodian may not be providing protection to the
child. An older child may initiate the interview process and
request that the parent(s) not be notified. The interview could
be held at a mutually agreed upon location that would not
require permission from a facility authority. ...

....
205.423 Location for Contact or Interview with Child

Although initial contact with the child may take place in the
home, the law allows for the possibility that this contact may be
made at school or any other place where the child may be; e.g., at
a child care center, baby sitter's home, hospital, etc. (IC 31-33-8-
7). Initial contact, especially in cases of sexual or physical abuse,
usually takes place outside the home. If the child is interviewed
away from the child’s home at one of the above-mentioned
institutions, care needs to be taken to contact the administrator of
the facility in order to advise the administrator of CPS
involvement and the need to interview the child at the facility. If
the child who is the subject of a CPS investigation is a patient in a
hospital, authorization from CPS or a copy of a court order is
necessary before the hospital may release the child to the parent,
guardian, custodian, or court-approved placement. If
authorization from CPS is verbal, CPS must follow up with a
letter to the hospital confirming that authorization for the child’s
release has been granted. (IC 31-33-11-1) For information
regarding financial responsibility for an extended stay, see the
above-noted cite.
....
  #4  
Old February 7th 07, 11:10 AM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents
Greegor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,243
Default TEN TIPS WHEN THE SOCIAL WORKER IS AT YOUR DOOR

Kane wrote
So, did you send that list to the proper newsgroups?


alt.support.child-protective-services, alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,
alt.parenting.spanking, alt.support.foster-parents

What other suggestions would you make?

  #5  
Old February 9th 07, 02:04 AM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents
Greegor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,243
Default TEN TIPS WHEN THE SOCIAL WORKER IS AT YOUR DOOR

The Child Protection INDUSTRY is an ongoing criminal enterprise.

 




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