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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?



 
 
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  #71  
Old December 7th 07, 04:26 AM posted to misc.kids
cjra
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Posts: 1,015
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 6, 2:58 pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
cjra wrote:
And, FWIW - I typically get sick whenever my daycare daughter gets
sick. Guess whose illness usually lasts much longer? Mine.


No kidding. Whenever norovirus runs through our house,
it's pretty much an obvious relationship that the older the person,
the longer it takes them to get over it.
As you say, there are a few things that are more dangerous
to the very young, and some diseases that are more dangerous to
older children/teens.


DH and I had a GI illness - probably norovirus - over the weekend (as
did two of my staff and one of the older kids at DD's daycare).
Fortunately, DD was just fine. Didn't even touch her.
  #72  
Old December 7th 07, 05:12 AM posted to misc.kids
toypup
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Posts: 1,227
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:05:46 +1100, Chookie wrote:

The only thing I disagree with Ericka about is dropping in unannounced; I
think that's rude, and it can be very inconvenient for the carers. Certainly
you should not pop in between 11:30 and 2pm; that's lunch and nap time. Day
care centres will ask you to come at about 10:30am, as a rule, which is
usually when they are having a quieter, organised indoor activity after the
more vigorous activity earlier, but the children are not yet tired out and
cranky!


That's really the only way to see things in action. Haven't you seen the
undercover videos they make for the news? Those poorer quality daycare
centers know how to straighten up before the parents get there. One center
neglected the kids all day. They were in their carseats from the time they
came to just before their parents came to pick them up, at which time more
staff arrived to pick up the place and play with the babies. It was all
for show.

I did once visit a site that could have made it in the news like that. I
thought, if only I had a video camera.
  #73  
Old December 7th 07, 05:58 AM posted to misc.kids
Ericka Kammerer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,293
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

Chookie wrote:

The only thing I disagree with Ericka about is dropping in unannounced; I
think that's rude, and it can be very inconvenient for the carers.


Dropping in unannounced is widely recommended in the US, and
pretty much all daycare centers expect it. If you don't drop in once
in a while, how do you know that what goes on at pickup/dropoff times
is representative of what goes on all day?

Certainly
you should not pop in between 11:30 and 2pm; that's lunch and nap time. Day
care centres will ask you to come at about 10:30am, as a rule, which is
usually when they are having a quieter, organised indoor activity after the
more vigorous activity earlier, but the children are not yet tired out and
cranky!


I think it's reasonable for visitors evaluating the facility
to have scheduled times for a visit, but if you have a child in the
facility then you should never be forbidden to enter.

Bear in mind that in my context, we have strict State and Federal regulations
about such matters as floor space ratios, carer ratios, and so forth.


Each state in the US has some minimum requirements for
licensure, but preschools or daycares may not necessarily have to
be licensed and in many states the minimum requirements are very
minimal indeed. There are voluntary accreditation bodies, but
while it's a good sign for the center to be accredited, there are
good centers that aren't accredited.
Nevertheless, the things one might be looking for in an
occasional drop in visit probably aren't the sorts of things that
licensure covers.

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #74  
Old December 7th 07, 01:28 PM posted to misc.kids
Chookie
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Posts: 1,085
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

In article ,
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Chookie wrote:

The only thing I disagree with Ericka about is dropping in unannounced; I
think that's rude, and it can be very inconvenient for the carers.


Dropping in unannounced is widely recommended in the US, and
pretty much all daycare centers expect it. If you don't drop in once
in a while, how do you know that what goes on at pickup/dropoff times
is representative of what goes on all day?


I was under the impression we were talking about *finding* a day care, not
checking up on an enrolled child.

DOes your question imply your places have set dropoff/pickup times? We don't.
We have to sign in and out, of course, but the centre can expect parents to be
coming and going almost the whole day -- the fee is the same no matter how
long the child is there during the day. I should specify that I'm talking
about a long day care centre (say 7am--6pm), not a preschool (9am--3pm).

I think it's reasonable for visitors evaluating the facility
to have scheduled times for a visit, but if you have a child in the
facility then you should never be forbidden to enter.


It never crossed my mind that someone would try to forbid me seeing/collecting
my own child! And if it happened, my kid would be out of there so fast the
director would be spinning for a week.

I can't picture the architecture which would allow it either. Most day care
centres I've seen have a foyer with the sign-in book and either glass doors or
gates to the rooms for different age groups. It would be pretty difficult to
conceal a parent, particularly an angry one!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/
  #75  
Old December 7th 07, 01:43 PM posted to misc.kids
Donna Metler
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Posts: 309
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?


"toypup" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:05:46 +1100, Chookie wrote:

The only thing I disagree with Ericka about is dropping in unannounced; I
think that's rude, and it can be very inconvenient for the carers.
Certainly
you should not pop in between 11:30 and 2pm; that's lunch and nap time.
Day
care centres will ask you to come at about 10:30am, as a rule, which is
usually when they are having a quieter, organised indoor activity after
the
more vigorous activity earlier, but the children are not yet tired out
and
cranky!


That's really the only way to see things in action. Haven't you seen the
undercover videos they make for the news? Those poorer quality daycare
centers know how to straighten up before the parents get there. One
center
neglected the kids all day. They were in their carseats from the time
they
came to just before their parents came to pick them up, at which time more
staff arrived to pick up the place and play with the babies. It was all
for show.

I did once visit a site that could have made it in the news like that. I
thought, if only I had a video camera.


Many of the good programs here have started having webcam feeds available
during the day. Parents can log in to a secure site and view their child's
classroom. I've had parents tell me that they tune in each week to my "music
show" or comment on things we did in music class when I know they've never
been in the room. It was a little disconcerting to be "always on" initially,
but after a few days, it was no big deal.

I also like that I can stop in the office, check the cameras, and get a feel
for how the class is that day (are they more active, more lethargic, how are
the kids who are more sensitive doing) and sometimes change my plan for the
group slightly based on what they need, before the kids see me (which
immediately leads to 3/4 of the class running to hug me).



  #76  
Old December 7th 07, 02:11 PM posted to misc.kids
Stephanie[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 693
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?


"Chookie" wrote in message
news:ehrebeniuk-654599.13350107122007@news...
In article
,
Beliavsky wrote:

I know my daughter will benefit tremendously from being around other
children in a structured educational setting. She will be in a group
of 9 children, who are looked after by 2 teachers and one part-time
assistant.


I disagree. My 2yo learns a lot from his parents, his baby-sitter, and
his 4yo brother, and I don't think he is missing much by not being
around other 2yo's.


But you don't *know*.

DS2 is getting quite a few things at day care that he doesn't get at home.
He
plays with kids who don't necessarily speak English very well, and are of
various cultural backgrounds. Most are of a lower SES than our family --
we
live in a lower middle class area. He plays with materials I'd never be
bothered with at home and plays games he would not get here. You can't
really
play Sandy Girl with only two children!

Day care, as I see it, is a substitute for playing with the kids in the
street
-- which is what my parents got to do as children.



I miss this on behalf of my children. Heck for myself too!



It breaks down social
barriers and broadens the mind. I am quite competent to see to my child's
education myself, and to his morals, but I cannot provide the experience
of
diversity (or of being in a large group of children).



By no means disagreeing with your points, but for those who care to, there
are other ways to achieve these things.


Most of my friends and
family are Anglophone, well-off and tertiary-educated. I'd hate it if he
thought that "everyone" lived like that -- and I've met plenty of people
who
do!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/



  #77  
Old December 7th 07, 02:14 PM posted to misc.kids
Stephanie[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 693
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?


"enigma" wrote in message
. ..
Banty wrote in
:

Whats this? Who are "ChildFind" and how did they get this
power and mixed up in your life??


he didn't talk at age 2. no babble, nothing except an really
good ambulance siren imitation, so he was referred to Early
Intervention. he received physical therapy & later speech
therapy. he was unable to work the muscles in his tongue &
face to make sounds (i currently maintain speech therapy was
the stupidest parenting mistake i've made g)
anyway, when kids age out of EI at age 3, they refer you to
ChildFind or whatever your state calls the school district
developmental delay program. i didn't know this when i went
into EI. i figured he'd get a year of PT & then i'd find a
private PT if he needed to continue. one of the things the PT
suggested was putting him into a playgroup once/week so he
could play with other kids. seemed reasonable at the time
because there aren't other kids around.
well, that & the fact that Boo refused to play the intake
coordinators games made them decide to label him emotionally
immature (show me an emotionally mature 2year7 month old) &
overly attached to me.



How the frick can a 2yo be "overly" attached to his MOTHER!??!!!???


he *tried* to talk to the intake coordinators & show them his
tractors and implements, but they wanted him to look at
pictures & point at things (when they asked him where the
window was in the picture, he pointed to the window he was
sitting next to, & when that was "wrong" he didn't want to
play that game).
so, they wanted him to go to developmentally delayed
preschool & i thought they were crazy.
lee still thinks they're crazy. hence the private school



  #78  
Old December 7th 07, 02:18 PM posted to misc.kids
Stephanie[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 693
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?


"Chookie" wrote in message
news:ehrebeniuk-BA2E4E.13054507122007@news...
In article ,
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

The big challenge is that few people know how to evaluate
quality daycare or preschool programs, so many just sort of freeze
and don't ask a lot of questions or don't spend some real time in
the center to see for themselves how things are going. While I
think that it is difficult to *create* a good classroom, it's one
of those things that if you only have to *evaluate* it, it's not
all that difficult. You may not know precisely what you'd need to
do to be a great childcare provider, but you'll know a good situation
when you see it if you spend some time there and drop in unannounced
on occasion. I'm not sure why people feel so inhibited about asking
to see classrooms in action, but that's ultimately what you need to
do. It's possible for the childcare providers to try to put on a
show for you, but the kids don't lie. You can see from their
behavior how things are going.



Going by my one bad experience:

1. Go with your gut. If you get a bad vibe, cross it off your list.
2. Look around, so you get an idea of what happens at day cares.
3. Do not base your decision on the newness and shininess of the
facilities.
4. Read the daily programme.
5. If the director is not trained in child care, leave immediately.
6. If the office is disorganised, leave immediately. I should have known
it
was bad because the Xmas tree was stuck upside down in a box on the
office
floor, the files were higgledy-piggledy, and the director handed money
from
his own wallet to staff for a petty cash purchase -- without recording
anything!
7. One crying child does not mean the day care is bad. Avoid places
where
the children don't display emotion/animation or where children appear
cowed/depressed. Look at how the staff handle the crying child, and look
at
how the other children respond.
8. A children's vegetable garden is a good sign.
9. Low turnover of staff is a good sign.
10. A long waiting list is a good sign.
11. Lots of artwork on the walls -- in different media -- is a good sign.
12. Wooden equipment (shelves, toy stove, etc) is a good sign.
13. Frequent use of stencils (do you call them that? Photocopied
material
for kids to colour in) is a bad sign.

The only thing I disagree with Ericka about is dropping in unannounced; I
think that's rude, and it can be very inconvenient for the carers.
Certainly
you should not pop in between 11:30 and 2pm; that's lunch and nap time.
Day
care centres will ask you to come at about 10:30am, as a rule, which is
usually when they are having a quieter, organised indoor activity after
the
more vigorous activity earlier, but the children are not yet tired out and
cranky!

Bear in mind that in my context, we have strict State and Federal
regulations
about such matters as floor space ratios, carer ratios, and so forth.



We do also. And as far as in home care is concerned, in 2 years of providing
care I was *never visited.* When I started I was never visited by an offical
liscensor, as is required. Do NOT count on the state to be doing a good job
as a watchdog of regulations. In my opinion.


--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/



  #79  
Old December 7th 07, 02:33 PM posted to misc.kids
Nan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 346
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 01:19:51 +0000 (UTC), enigma
wrote:

Banty wrote in
:

Whats this? Who are "ChildFind" and how did they get this
power and mixed up in your life??


he didn't talk at age 2. no babble, nothing except an really
good ambulance siren imitation, so he was referred to Early
Intervention. he received physical therapy & later speech
therapy. he was unable to work the muscles in his tongue &
face to make sounds (i currently maintain speech therapy was
the stupidest parenting mistake i've made g)
anyway, when kids age out of EI at age 3, they refer you to
ChildFind or whatever your state calls the school district
developmental delay program. i didn't know this when i went
into EI. i figured he'd get a year of PT & then i'd find a
private PT if he needed to continue. one of the things the PT
suggested was putting him into a playgroup once/week so he
could play with other kids. seemed reasonable at the time
because there aren't other kids around.
well, that & the fact that Boo refused to play the intake
coordinators games made them decide to label him emotionally
immature (show me an emotionally mature 2year7 month old) &
overly attached to me.
he *tried* to talk to the intake coordinators & show them his
tractors and implements, but they wanted him to look at
pictures & point at things (when they asked him where the
window was in the picture, he pointed to the window he was
sitting next to, & when that was "wrong" he didn't want to
play that game).
so, they wanted him to go to developmentally delayed
preschool & i thought they were crazy.
lee still thinks they're crazy. hence the private school


That's messed up. A 2 year old just cannot be overly attached to mom,
IMNSHO! The stories you tell about Boo, he sounds so happy. I'm glad
you thumbed your nose at the agency.

Nan

  #80  
Old December 7th 07, 02:57 PM posted to misc.kids
cjra
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,015
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 7, 7:18 am, "Stephanie" wrote:
"Chookie" wrote in message

news:ehrebeniuk-BA2E4E.13054507122007@news...





In article ,
Ericka Kammerer wrote:


The big challenge is that few people know how to evaluate
quality daycare or preschool programs, so many just sort of freeze
and don't ask a lot of questions or don't spend some real time in
the center to see for themselves how things are going. While I
think that it is difficult to *create* a good classroom, it's one
of those things that if you only have to *evaluate* it, it's not
all that difficult. You may not know precisely what you'd need to
do to be a great childcare provider, but you'll know a good situation
when you see it if you spend some time there and drop in unannounced
on occasion. I'm not sure why people feel so inhibited about asking
to see classrooms in action, but that's ultimately what you need to
do. It's possible for the childcare providers to try to put on a
show for you, but the kids don't lie. You can see from their
behavior how things are going.


Going by my one bad experience:


1. Go with your gut. If you get a bad vibe, cross it off your list.
2. Look around, so you get an idea of what happens at day cares.
3. Do not base your decision on the newness and shininess of the
facilities.
4. Read the daily programme.
5. If the director is not trained in child care, leave immediately.
6. If the office is disorganised, leave immediately. I should have known
it
was bad because the Xmas tree was stuck upside down in a box on the
office
floor, the files were higgledy-piggledy, and the director handed money
from
his own wallet to staff for a petty cash purchase -- without recording
anything!
7. One crying child does not mean the day care is bad. Avoid places
where
the children don't display emotion/animation or where children appear
cowed/depressed. Look at how the staff handle the crying child, and look
at
how the other children respond.
8. A children's vegetable garden is a good sign.
9. Low turnover of staff is a good sign.
10. A long waiting list is a good sign.
11. Lots of artwork on the walls -- in different media -- is a good sign.
12. Wooden equipment (shelves, toy stove, etc) is a good sign.
13. Frequent use of stencils (do you call them that? Photocopied
material
for kids to colour in) is a bad sign.


The only thing I disagree with Ericka about is dropping in unannounced; I
think that's rude, and it can be very inconvenient for the carers.
Certainly
you should not pop in between 11:30 and 2pm; that's lunch and nap time.
Day
care centres will ask you to come at about 10:30am, as a rule, which is
usually when they are having a quieter, organised indoor activity after
the
more vigorous activity earlier, but the children are not yet tired out and
cranky!


Bear in mind that in my context, we have strict State and Federal
regulations
about such matters as floor space ratios, carer ratios, and so forth.


We do also. And as far as in home care is concerned, in 2 years of providing
care I was *never visited.* When I started I was never visited by an offical
liscensor, as is required. Do NOT count on the state to be doing a good job
as a watchdog of regulations. In my opinion.


Both the in-home providers I used had at least 2 visits each in the
time DD has been in daycare (about 14 months now total). There may
have been more. You can see the log of visits and comments on their
website.

But no, I wouldn't rely on the state to get a feel for a provider. I'm
honestly not that concerned with some of the regulations (like do they
have all the appropriate state signs posted - that's the only thing my
provider got marked off for). I base my opinion on my personal
experience with the provider. However using the state licensing
information is useful when first considering which centers to start
with.
 




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