Father issues

Well, those of you that know about my situation know my daughters father has
been pretty non-existent. Well, after many moons, he has decided to become
sober, go through AA (and as some know, that means making amends for past
mistakes). He sends an email out of the blue to my daughter telling her all
his problems and his apologies, ect. She didn't want to answer and she is 13
and allowed to her opinion of him. She didn't answer a few emails, he
continued to write, some of the emails were sounding as though he was trying
to make HER feel guilty. She did then reply briefly. He has another child on
the way also. All she said about that was that the child would be 'messed
up'. (Both soon to be parents admitted to drug addiction at the time of
conception) My daughter has had some problems as all young women will and
she has been doing so well lately. Ever since the emails, she has started to
constantly pick at her skin, her arms, face, any where. She also started
this annoying habit of clicking her fingers. Today her knuckles are so
swollen from it, she looks like an arthritic patient. I told her if she
keeps it up I will wrap ever inch of her body in gauze. Not that that idea
is feasible but it sounded good. I know she has issues inside that she just
won't address to me atleast. I suppose I will take my own advice and take
her to see a professional. In the meantime, I don't know what or how to
handle this. Her father has even invited her to the baby shower and asked
her opinion on names. How is this effecting her.... his interest in this
baby when he had nothing for her. His girlfriend even wrote her a letter
adding to the pressure she must be feeling. I don't want to be adding to it
so right now I have said not much. I am afraid my anger will come out if I
open my mouth on the subject. I want to freak out, personally but that would
be counterproductive for my daughter and she is what is important.
Any suggestions for both me dealing with this and addressing my daughter?

Tiffany

She didn't answer a few emails, he
continued to write, some of the emails were sounding as though he was trying
to make HER feel guilty.

I'm not certain but I'm pretty sure that making amends is one of the later
steps, after he's mastered some early steps, including TAKING RESPONSIBILITY
for his own actions and the pain he has caused others. Doesn't sound like he's
done that. Is he really working the program or is this just another typical
manipulation of alcoholic and addicts?

Not that any of that helps your girl, but it may help if you can educate her
about addicts, about how the nature of the disease is to lie and
manipulate...help her to see that everything he say is about him and his
addiction, not her? Is she seeing a counselor? Perhaps a counselor can help
her with that.

If your ex is working the program, he should have a sponser, I'd find out who
that is and show him the emails he's sending his daughter and maybe the sponsor
can confront him and help him be more honest when he makes amends.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

"Tiffany" wrote in message
...
Well, those of you that know about my situation know my daughters father
has
been pretty non-existent. Well, after many moons, he has decided to become
sober, go through AA (and as some know, that means making amends for past
mistakes).

Great to hear! Good for him...

He sends an email out of the blue to my daughter telling her all
his problems and his apologies, ect. She didn't want to answer and she is
13
and allowed to her opinion of him. She didn't answer a few emails, he
continued to write, some of the emails were sounding as though he was
trying
to make HER feel guilty. She did then reply briefly.

Well you are right she does have her own opinion... Have you perhaps helped
her ease into the situation by suggesting she give him a try? I mean he
DID make contact... AND he continued until she responded (even if he used
guilt as a tool/weapon) perhaps you could ease things a bit and write him
and let him know that she is concerned and fretful and find out what his
agenda is at this moment in time...

He has another child on
the way also. All she said about that was that the child would be 'messed
up'. (Both soon to be parents admitted to drug addiction at the time of
conception)

That really is a shame... I hope the dear thing is healthy and strong!

My daughter has had some problems as all young women will and
she has been doing so well lately. Ever since the emails, she has started
to
constantly pick at her skin, her arms, face, any where. She also started
this annoying habit of clicking her fingers.

The poor thing... She sounds very fretful... Can you talk to her about her
issues and make her feel that this is a good thing that Dad has suddenly
cleaned up and wants to have contact? I'd give him the benefit of the doubt
and hope all goes well perhaps your blessing on the situation will ease your
daughters concerns...

Today her knuckles are so
swollen from it, she looks like an arthritic patient. I told her if she
keeps it up I will wrap ever inch of her body in gauze. Not that that idea
is feasible but it sounded good.

Cute... I used to say cotton wool...

I know she has issues inside that she just
won't address to me at least.

Is there someone she can confide in?

I suppose I will take my own advice and take
her to see a professional. In the meantime, I don't know what or how to
handle this. Her father has even invited her to the baby shower and asked
her opinion on names.

He really sounds to be making an effort at including her kudos to him...
Even with the history he is still making every effort to involve her...

How is this effecting her.... his interest in this
baby when he had nothing for her. His girlfriend even wrote her a letter
adding to the pressure she must be feeling.

You don't say what kind of a letter it is -- I'm hoping it is a nice one
perhaps explaining what they are doing etc... Once more I see him reaching
as well as the of reaching to include her...


I don't want to be adding to it
so right now I have said not much. I am afraid my anger will come out if I
open my mouth on the subject.

I think that may be a cause of her concern... that she knows you are not
pleased by the sudden contact and perhaps that is adding pressure as well

I want to freak out, personally but that would
be counterproductive for my daughter and she is what is important.

Venting here is good... Then talking to your daughter and trying to look on
the positive side of things:
1. Dad is clean 2. Dad contacted HER 3. Dad is determined to maintain
contact 4. Dad's g/f wants to include her in their lives...

Also it might help if you looked into some counseling for yourself and for
her --


Any suggestions for both me dealing with this and addressing my daughter?

Tiffany



These are things I would like to think I would try to do to make things
easier... I would also brush my feelings under the rug and keep my negative
thoughts to myself and do alot of praying that dad continues to be
involved...

JMO
Kim

PS
IF my kids dad actually wanted to become involved in thier lives I'd move
heaven and earth to make it work for them... A child needs both parents and
if the parent is seriously trying then I'd back the ba$tard no matter how
rotten he was to me

"Kim" wrote in message
...

"Tiffany" wrote in message
...
Well, those of you that know about my situation know my daughters father
has
been pretty non-existent. Well, after many moons, he has decided to
become
sober, go through AA (and as some know, that means making amends for
past
mistakes).

Great to hear! Good for him...

He sends an email out of the blue to my daughter telling her all
his problems and his apologies, ect. She didn't want to answer and she
is
13
and allowed to her opinion of him. She didn't answer a few emails, he
continued to write, some of the emails were sounding as though he was
trying
to make HER feel guilty. She did then reply briefly.

Well you are right she does have her own opinion... Have you perhaps
helped
her ease into the situation by suggesting she give him a try? I mean he
DID make contact... AND he continued until she responded (even if he used
guilt as a tool/weapon) perhaps you could ease things a bit and write him
and let him know that she is concerned and fretful and find out what his
agenda is at this moment in time...

He has another child on
the way also. All she said about that was that the child would be
'messed
up'. (Both soon to be parents admitted to drug addiction at the time of
conception)

That really is a shame... I hope the dear thing is healthy and strong!

My daughter has had some problems as all young women will and
she has been doing so well lately. Ever since the emails, she has
started
to
constantly pick at her skin, her arms, face, any where. She also started
this annoying habit of clicking her fingers.

The poor thing... She sounds very fretful... Can you talk to her about her
issues and make her feel that this is a good thing that Dad has suddenly
cleaned up and wants to have contact? I'd give him the benefit of the
doubt
and hope all goes well perhaps your blessing on the situation will ease
your
daughters concerns...

Today her knuckles are so
swollen from it, she looks like an arthritic patient. I told her if she
keeps it up I will wrap ever inch of her body in gauze. Not that that
idea
is feasible but it sounded good.

Cute... I used to say cotton wool...

I know she has issues inside that she just
won't address to me at least.

Is there someone she can confide in?

I suppose I will take my own advice and take
her to see a professional. In the meantime, I don't know what or how to
handle this. Her father has even invited her to the baby shower and
asked
her opinion on names.

He really sounds to be making an effort at including her kudos to him...
Even with the history he is still making every effort to involve her...

How is this effecting her.... his interest in this
baby when he had nothing for her. His girlfriend even wrote her a letter
adding to the pressure she must be feeling.

You don't say what kind of a letter it is -- I'm hoping it is a nice one
perhaps explaining what they are doing etc... Once more I see him reaching
as well as the of reaching to include her...


I don't want to be adding to it
so right now I have said not much. I am afraid my anger will come out if
I
open my mouth on the subject.

I think that may be a cause of her concern... that she knows you are not
pleased by the sudden contact and perhaps that is adding pressure as well

I want to freak out, personally but that would
be counterproductive for my daughter and she is what is important.

Venting here is good... Then talking to your daughter and trying to look
on
the positive side of things:
1. Dad is clean 2. Dad contacted HER 3. Dad is determined to maintain
contact 4. Dad's g/f wants to include her in their lives...

Also it might help if you looked into some counseling for yourself and for
her --


Any suggestions for both me dealing with this and addressing my
daughter?

Tiffany



These are things I would like to think I would try to do to make things
easier... I would also brush my feelings under the rug and keep my
negative
thoughts to myself and do alot of praying that dad continues to be
involved...

JMO
Kim

PS
IF my kids dad actually wanted to become involved in thier lives I'd move
heaven and earth to make it work for them... A child needs both parents
and
if the parent is seriously trying then I'd back the ba$tard no matter how
rotten he was to me




After reading some of the other posts I'm thinking I posted hastily or took
the OP differently... Perhaps I'm in the throes of 'wishful thinking'?

Sorry if I misunderstood the OP's issue... I always like to hope that the
walking away parent would actually suddenly decide to take part in the kids
life at some point in time...


Kim

Good for him...

Again I want to caution about getting to excited about this. An email with a
sob story is not making amends. Alcholics and addicts often have a lot of
false starts. Don't let your daughter get her hopes up. Don' t you get your
hopes up. Make him prove himself. If he's really working the program he will
accept the distrust and skepticism of those he has hurt in the past and work to
provie himself. Go ahead and encourage him, but dont' let him manipulate and
guilt trip and I'd want to see a year of sobriety before I believed it.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

"Joelle" wrote in message
...
She didn't answer a few emails, he
continued to write, some of the emails were sounding as though he was
trying
to make HER feel guilty.

I'm not certain but I'm pretty sure that making amends is one of the later
steps, after he's mastered some early steps, including TAKING
RESPONSIBILITY
for his own actions and the pain he has caused others. Doesn't sound like
he's
done that. Is he really working the program or is this just another
typical
manipulation of alcoholic and addicts?

I would guess he is manipulating but I am prone to second quess him at every
turn. When does one give the benefit of the doubt? lol I would also say by
the wording of his emails that he hasn't even come close to taking
responsiblity. He became addicted again because the doctors prescribed him
to many pain meds, he couldn't get help for him and the girlfriend because
she didn't understand the program. They ended up in jail because of the
addiction.... she got arrested because a friend had drugs in the car. He
never takes personal blame. But I figured that is what addicts are taught.
They have a disease..... that makes it easy to put the blame elsewhere in my
opinion.

Not that any of that helps your girl, but it may help if you can educate
her
about addicts, about how the nature of the disease is to lie and
manipulate...help her to see that everything he say is about him and his
addiction, not her? Is she seeing a counselor? Perhaps a counselor can
help
her with that.

She will be going back to see the counselor she has seen in the past. They
had a good repur and she was totally honest with the sessions as far as not
milking it for money. She came right out and said she can see no reason to
see my daughter. That was a year ago. I think a few sessions could be
helpful.

If your ex is working the program, he should have a sponser, I'd find out
who
that is and show him the emails he's sending his daughter and maybe the
sponsor
can confront him and help him be more honest when he makes amends.

He is in North Carolina so finding anything like that out would be
impossilble. His only contact is via email which he says he accesses at the
local library. He claims to be homeless, living at a shelter. (He has been
in shelters a few times in his life)

I appriciate your response. Thanks.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

'Kate wrote in message news
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:44:59 -0400, "Tiffany"
Well, those of you that know about my situation know my daughters father
has
been pretty non-existent. Well, after many moons, he has decided to
become
sober, go through AA (and as some know, that means making amends for past
mistakes). He sends an email out of the blue to my daughter telling her
all
his problems and his apologies, ect. She didn't want to answer and she is
13
and allowed to her opinion of him. She didn't answer a few emails, he
continued to write, some of the emails were sounding as though he was
trying
to make HER feel guilty. She did then reply briefly. He has another child
on
the way also. All she said about that was that the child would be 'messed
up'. (Both soon to be parents admitted to drug addiction at the time of
conception) My daughter has had some problems as all young women will and
she has been doing so well lately. Ever since the emails, she has started
to
constantly pick at her skin, her arms, face, any where. She also started
this annoying habit of clicking her fingers. Today her knuckles are so
swollen from it, she looks like an arthritic patient. I told her if she
keeps it up I will wrap ever inch of her body in gauze. Not that that
idea
is feasible but it sounded good. I know she has issues inside that she
just
won't address to me atleast. I suppose I will take my own advice and take
her to see a professional. In the meantime, I don't know what or how to
handle this. Her father has even invited her to the baby shower and asked
her opinion on names. How is this effecting her.... his interest in this
baby when he had nothing for her. His girlfriend even wrote her a letter
adding to the pressure she must be feeling. I don't want to be adding to
it
so right now I have said not much. I am afraid my anger will come out if
I
open my mouth on the subject. I want to freak out, personally but that
would
be counterproductive for my daughter and she is what is important.
Any suggestions for both me dealing with this and addressing my daughter?

Tiffany

Yeah... she's got more than her share of reasons to feel anxiety and
it's showing. The self-harming behavior is the most worrying but that
won't stop until she makes decisions about whatever she is most anxious
about. Sometimes it's not just the one thing and maybe it's not only
the relationship with her father and his new family. Assuming it is may
close the door to what is actually going on.

Most kids who hurt themselves won't stop by threat. The pain seems to
be cathartic... it relieves the stress. Threats seem to add to their
self-loathing. This isn't something a newsgroup should handle...
truthfully. If it was my daughter, I would start by calling her regular
doctor, talking to him or her first without my daughter. Then, if the
doctor seemed open to talking to my child, I would make an appointment.
It's less threatening to a teen to go to someone he or she knows. If the
regular doctor does not seem knowledgable or has never handled this sort
of issue, then I would call a mental health hotline for a referral. In
the meanwhile, provide a safe, secure, non-judgmental, and nurturing
environment. I think you can safely tell her that you recognise that
she is hurting herself and you have some idea of why without saying
exactly what. Reassure her that no matter what, you'll stick by her and
be there for her.

'Kate


I don't want her behavior to appear as self-hurting. The knuckle thing she
didn't even realize came about from this clicking thing. Well, that is what
she said. You are right though about the anxiety causing it. I have seen
folks that from stress and anxiety will itch and itch themselves until they
are all scratched up. So, yes, I suppose it is self-harming.

I will work on just nurturing her until we get into the therapist. I am just
trying like hell not to put my anger energies out there for her to feel. She
hasn't gotten an email from him this week yet.

Thanks for the reply and suggestions.

Tiff

"Kim" wrote in message
...

"Kim" wrote in message
...

"Tiffany" wrote in message
...
Well, those of you that know about my situation know my daughters
father
has
been pretty non-existent. Well, after many moons, he has decided to
become
sober, go through AA (and as some know, that means making amends for
past
mistakes).

Great to hear! Good for him...

He sends an email out of the blue to my daughter telling her all
his problems and his apologies, ect. She didn't want to answer and she
is
13
and allowed to her opinion of him. She didn't answer a few emails, he
continued to write, some of the emails were sounding as though he was
trying
to make HER feel guilty. She did then reply briefly.

Well you are right she does have her own opinion... Have you perhaps
helped
her ease into the situation by suggesting she give him a try? I mean
he
DID make contact... AND he continued until she responded (even if he
used
guilt as a tool/weapon) perhaps you could ease things a bit and write
him
and let him know that she is concerned and fretful and find out what his
agenda is at this moment in time...

He has made contact many times in the past 13 years as well as empty
promises, ect. I have always eased her into spending any time with him
(which as been VERY minimal). If I ask him agenda it will be as all good
intentions, to have a relationship with her. I beleive he has intention but
no will to follow through. She has never been the most important thing in
his life.

He has another child on
the way also. All she said about that was that the child would be
'messed
up'. (Both soon to be parents admitted to drug addiction at the time
of
conception)

That really is a shame... I hope the dear thing is healthy and strong!

My daughter has had some problems as all young women will and
she has been doing so well lately. Ever since the emails, she has
started
to
constantly pick at her skin, her arms, face, any where. She also
started
this annoying habit of clicking her fingers.

The poor thing... She sounds very fretful... Can you talk to her about
her
issues and make her feel that this is a good thing that Dad has suddenly
cleaned up and wants to have contact? I'd give him the benefit of the
doubt
and hope all goes well perhaps your blessing on the situation will ease
your
daughters concerns...

I can say that but she knows the pattern. She has lived it a bunch of times.
She is old enough know that it all comes to light. My brother is a crack
addict and she sees how it works for a drug addict.

Today her knuckles are so
swollen from it, she looks like an arthritic patient. I told her if
she
keeps it up I will wrap ever inch of her body in gauze. Not that that
idea
is feasible but it sounded good.

Cute... I used to say cotton wool...

I know she has issues inside that she just
won't address to me at least.

Is there someone she can confide in?

I suppose I will take my own advice and take
her to see a professional. In the meantime, I don't know what or how
to
handle this. Her father has even invited her to the baby shower and
asked
her opinion on names.

He really sounds to be making an effort at including her kudos to him...
Even with the history he is still making every effort to involve her...

But how about the effect of the comings and goings. You can't continue to
play games with your child and expect forgiveness at every turn.

How is this effecting her.... his interest in this
baby when he had nothing for her. His girlfriend even wrote her a
letter
adding to the pressure she must be feeling.

You don't say what kind of a letter it is -- I'm hoping it is a nice one
perhaps explaining what they are doing etc... Once more I see him
reaching
as well as the of reaching to include her...

It was a nice letter..... but its pressure for her to be happy about
something she really might not be.


I don't want to be adding to it
so right now I have said not much. I am afraid my anger will come out
if
I
open my mouth on the subject.

I think that may be a cause of her concern... that she knows you are not
pleased by the sudden contact and perhaps that is adding pressure as
well

I want to freak out, personally but that would
be counterproductive for my daughter and she is what is important.

Venting here is good... Then talking to your daughter and trying to look
on
the positive side of things:
1. Dad is clean 2. Dad contacted HER 3. Dad is determined to maintain
contact 4. Dad's g/f wants to include her in their lives...

Also it might help if you looked into some counseling for yourself and
for
her --


Any suggestions for both me dealing with this and addressing my
daughter?

Tiffany



These are things I would like to think I would try to do to make things
easier... I would also brush my feelings under the rug and keep my
negative
thoughts to myself and do alot of praying that dad continues to be
involved...

JMO
Kim

PS
IF my kids dad actually wanted to become involved in thier lives I'd
move
heaven and earth to make it work for them... A child needs both parents
and
if the parent is seriously trying then I'd back the ba$tard no matter
how
rotten he was to me

So would I, but I am sure you see now its not always that simple. Plus he
isn't my best friend but my anger isn't about how our relationship worked
out. That was a mutual thing.




After reading some of the other posts I'm thinking I posted hastily or
took
the OP differently... Perhaps I'm in the throes of 'wishful thinking'?

Sorry if I misunderstood the OP's issue... I always like to hope that the
walking away parent would actually suddenly decide to take part in the
kids
life at some point in time...

He might..... time will tell. I can't predict if this is the time that will
stick for him. I know what my heart says and it says no. It says something
is going to go down between him and his girlfriend and he splits from NC and
goes someplace else.

Thanks for your response though. Nothing wrong with wishful thinking either.
Just after to many wishful thinking, one tends to become hardened.

T

Don't count on the new baby being "messed up". Despite the media pounding
that idea into your head, it is, as much as anything, a crapshoot as to how
the child will turn out, regardless of them doing drugs at conception. Keep
in mind, a GREAT deal of what you hear today is issued by doctors in order
to cover their own asses in the event there's a problem, by placing blame on
the parents in any manner possible. In some case, that's completely correct.
But as bad as smoking is, remember, until the mid-70's, smoking by pregnant
women wasn't especially frowned upon, and the world certainly wasn't any
stupider before that.

--
remove "NOSPAM" from address to reply, or wonder why your mail was returned
"Tiffany" wrote in message
...
Well, those of you that know about my situation know my daughters father
has
been pretty non-existent. Well, after many moons, he has decided to become
sober, go through AA (and as some know, that means making amends for past
mistakes). He sends an email out of the blue to my daughter telling her
all
his problems and his apologies, ect. She didn't want to answer and she is
13
and allowed to her opinion of him. She didn't answer a few emails, he
continued to write, some of the emails were sounding as though he was
trying
to make HER feel guilty. She did then reply briefly. He has another child
on
the way also. All she said about that was that the child would be 'messed
up'. (Both soon to be parents admitted to drug addiction at the time of
conception) My daughter has had some problems as all young women will and
she has been doing so well lately. Ever since the emails, she has started
to
constantly pick at her skin, her arms, face, any where. She also started
this annoying habit of clicking her fingers. Today her knuckles are so
swollen from it, she looks like an arthritic patient. I told her if she
keeps it up I will wrap ever inch of her body in gauze. Not that that idea
is feasible but it sounded good. I know she has issues inside that she
just
won't address to me atleast. I suppose I will take my own advice and take
her to see a professional. In the meantime, I don't know what or how to
handle this. Her father has even invited her to the baby shower and asked
her opinion on names. How is this effecting her.... his interest in this
baby when he had nothing for her. His girlfriend even wrote her a letter
adding to the pressure she must be feeling. I don't want to be adding to
it
so right now I have said not much. I am afraid my anger will come out if I
open my mouth on the subject. I want to freak out, personally but that
would
be counterproductive for my daughter and she is what is important.
Any suggestions for both me dealing with this and addressing my daughter?

Tiffany

"Otto Ramone" wrote in message
...
Don't count on the new baby being "messed up". Despite the media pounding
that idea into your head, it is, as much as anything, a crapshoot as to
how
the child will turn out, regardless of them doing drugs at conception.
Keep
in mind, a GREAT deal of what you hear today is issued by doctors in order
to cover their own asses in the event there's a problem, by placing blame
on
the parents in any manner possible. In some case, that's completely
correct.
But as bad as smoking is, remember, until the mid-70's, smoking by
pregnant
women wasn't especially frowned upon, and the world certainly wasn't any
stupider before that.

--

Are you talking about smoking cigarettes or drugs here? My daughter's
comment on the baby was because both parents are drug addicts, not smokers.
But they are that too. I believe the reason smoking has become more harmful
then in the 70's and earlier is possibly due to more chemicals/pesticides
that are in use on crops these days. I don't have any proof to back that up
though, just a thought.

The issues at hand aren't really about the baby being messed up. That was
just something I posted so others could get a feel for my daughters
reaction.

T