At wit's end (looooong)

From everything I've heard here military school is not a good option for my
SS. That conversation was evolving into a whole different conversation, so
I decided to start a new thread on a different subject.

We don't know what to do anymore. I've tried to write the whole story
below. It's going to be a bit scattered and
stream-of-consciousness...there's just so much here I don't know how to tell
it all.

SS came to live with us 2 summers ago at age 10 1/2. He grew up with mom in
Florida. Mom has had him on various medications for ADHD since he was 2
years old. Basically, she kept taking him to different pediatricians until
she finally found one who would prescribe something, because she couldn't
handle him at 2 years old.

SS has a sister who's 3 years younger. Ever since the first time I met them
(when they were 4 and 7), she has bossed him around constantly. He always
did what she said because at home, if he didn't, he'd get in trouble.

I met the dad when the kids were 3 and 6, and he moved away from Florida to
be with me. 2 years later we moved to Colorado, which was even farther
away, but not really any different since a plane ride is a plane ride, after
all. He was not very involved in their upbringing. They come stay with us
for about a month every summer, which is when we really see the interactions
between brother and sister, and they were getting more disturbing every
year.

2 summers ago, Mom had said she was trying to get him diagnosed with bipolar
disorder. She was thoroughly convinced that he's bipolar but could not find
a pediatrician to support her "diagnosis" and prescribe something. That was
one of the things that convinced us that he really needed to come live with
us.

SS has always hated living in Florida, he was bored out of his mind because
his mother and her BF never *did* anything, just sat at home all the time.
He had no respect for her or her BF and his behavior at home was just as bad
as his behavior at school.
So 2 years ago when the kids were here for their summer visit and we told
him that we were going to keep him here to live with us, he was
ecstatic--said he had been waiting for that for 2 years (ever since we moved
to Colorado). He used to be afraid of *everything*--I mean scared to death!
Afraid to ride in the car in the mountains, to the point of obsessing about
it. Afraid to climb on rocks. You name it, it scared him. He would stand
there and bawl like a 2-year-old if we tried to get him to do anything even
slightly risky. The other thing
is, he tends to give up very easily--he tried bowling when he was 10 and it
turned into a temper tantrum, him stomping his feet on the floor and crying.
His sister made fun of him at these times, which was
somewhat understandable--she's just a little girl after all--but I'm sure
Mom supported this. The crying and temper tantrums have improved, at least
around us. And the obsessive worrying about anything even slightly
dangerous has
gotten a bit better, but is still there to a degree.

Now flash to the present. SS has gotten much better with behavior at home.
He does not try to put anything over on us anymore, and his home behavior is
*far* better than his school behavior.
For the last couple of years he's had a pattern of making and losing
friends; he'd have one friend (only one), then he'd do something really
outrageous and that friend would decide he didn't really want to be friends
anymore, and that was that. Lots of ruined friendships for a couple of
years, now he has one friend that he's managed to keep for a while, so that
indicates to us that his behavior with his friends is improving, that he can
control himself when he wants to. They've met a third friend who's a couple
of years younger, and he picks on the younger kid constantly--*not* all in
good fun, it's really very hurtful to the other boy but kids will be kids I
guess.

His school behavior is deplorable. He makes up outrageous stories about
himself. Example: Last year he went to another school for most of the
year, then transferred right after spring break to a different school with a
better program for him (he's in the SIED program for kids with "severe
emotional disabilities"). At the first school he was in concert choir but
he *hated* it, he wouldn't even sing, would not even open his mouth--other
kids even complained about him to the teacher. Then when he went to the new
school he told everyone there that he was the "best tenor in the state."
He's always talking about all the things he can do on his skateboard but in
reality he's scared to death of it. A couple days ago at school they were
reading an article, something about a Chinese restaurant in Los Angeles, and
he spoke up and told everyone that we (his parents) know the owner of that
restaurant personally. NOT! He's told everyone that he's on the Olympic ski
racing team and has sponsors calling him from all over the world offering
him millions of dollars. He makes up all these stories about himself,
thinking they will make him look cool but they *don't*, they just make him
look like an ass!

Last year at his old school--this was about 6 months ago I guess--I got an
email from his teacher that he had been handing out dollar bills to all of
his "friends" at lunch time. He didn't *have* any friends at school, all
the other kids *hated* him. But he took all of his allowance to school and
gave dollar bills to anyone who would sit with him at the lunch table.

Last year, right after he transferred into the new school, the kids in the
SIED program went up to the mountains to do this ropes course. Very popular
for kids in at-risk programs, supposed to teach them trust, etc. He was
*scared to death*, I mean terrified, crying even, just like 2 years ago.
Then the next day at
school when they were talking about it, and everyone was talking about how
scared they were, he insisted that he *wasn't* afraid at all, he would do it
again, nothing to it, etc. Even when everyone in the room looked at him and
pointed out in detail how terrified he was, he denied it.

At school he frequently refuses to do his work. This is the general rule
for him. He tells his teachers he's not going to do it, they can't make
him, if they try to make him do it his parents are going to sue them (NOT)
and on and on and on. His SIED teacher has started faxing work home for him
that he refuses to do at school, so he can do it as soon as he gets
home--because he wouldn't *think* of telling us he "won't do it."

A couple of days ago he told someone in the classroom that they were "gay."
One of the teacher assistants told him he couldn't use that word in the
classroom. He was just on his way out the door and he turned around and
said GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY. Then he insisted that he couldn't get
into trouble because they didn't have any proof, they didn't have it on
videotape. And of course that his parents were going to sue them if they
tried to get him into trouble.

The program he's in is partly self-contained, partly mainstreamed, the goal
of course being to mainstream all kids into regular classes. Every morning
they meet in the SIED teacher's room for an hour and have a "group" session.
There are about 10 kids in the program. The "group" things are sometimes
really light (like "all the people who like Coke better than Pepsi raise
your hand!) and sometimes much heavier like talking about home/parent
issues. Some of the kids have parents or other relatives that have been
sent to Iraq. My SS does not participate in these "group" sessions. Not
only does he not participate, he actively disrupts them by telling everybody
that they're stupid, their problems are stupid, he even went so far as to
tell one little girl whose dad had just been shipped out that her dad was
probably already dead! For the last couple of weeks in
his science class he's been picking on a HANDICAPPED kid!

This is not a person I am proud to know, in fact I'm ashamed to admit that
he lives in the same house as me. He's been here for more than 2 years and
his behavior is as deplorable as ever. He was suspended on Monday for
calling his SIED teacher a bitch. All the other kids in the SIED class want
to beat him up for that, and I can't blame them! He went back to school
Tuesday, then yesterday he got suspended again for more of the same type of
behavior--2 days this time.

The other kids in his class are so ****ed off they can't stand him anymore.
They are a *very* forgiving bunch of kids but they can't understand why he
acts the way he does (nobody can!). On Monday when he goes back to school,
Dad is going to go with him all day, and the group session in the morning is
going to be about *him.* He'll have to sit there and listen and possibly
respond, with Dad there to make sure he responds in an appropriate manner.

Last summer while we were on vacation in Montana, we dropped him off at the
public swimming pool one day (I had to take a college class for a week) and
he was attacked by 3 younger kids in the locker room. They didn't actually
beat him up, but that was probably only because the lifeguard walked in just
as they were getting warmed up. As usual he was talking "stuff" to them in
the pool, then when he decided he was in too deep so-to-speak he decided to
just leave, and they followed him into the locker room. Anyway, after that
incident we decided to sign him up for karate lessons. He's been going for
a month, still a white belt but has of course told everybody at school that
he "knows karate" and "could take a gun away from a cop." He actually tries
to *do* these karate kicks on other kids--not just playing around, he thinks
he's serious! So we've stopped the karate lessons, he's obviously too
immature.

BTW he has been to a therapist, went to one for a few months and really
liked the guy, would ask me "when's the next time I get to go see Danny?"
But he wouldn't talk to the therapist, and finally Danny called me in and
said he couldn't help my SS anymore because he wouldn't talk. Just kept
giving evasive answers. We were all sitting there in his office when he
told me "Bobby says he's not afraid of anything at all." My SS--who was
fiddling with something and looked like he was on another planet--pipes up
and says "I'm afraid of things." Danny says "What things?" My SS says,
"The things that I'm afraid of." Danny says "What things are you afraid of,
Bobby?" And my SS again says "The things that I'm afraid of." And all the
while he's fiddling with this cup, won't look at anybody, looks like he's
completely tuned out. So Danny told me, he can't do anything for my SS
until he stops being evasive and starts talking. And that I should not
bring him back until *he* asks to go back.

So. If you've read this far, you can see this kid has a ton of problems.
Sorry if it seems like I'm rambling. Tried not to leave anything out but
also wanted to be as brief as possible. LOL...

At any rate, as the subject implies, we're about at our wit's end. SS is
being "pulled back" into the program so it will be as restrictive as is
possible within the construct of the program. He'll be confined to the
"time out" room for an entire week. He's managed to disrupt class in the
past even from the timeout room, which is basically an isolation room in the
back! *IF* he can go a whole week without disrupting the class, then he'll
be allowed to sit in the regular classroom but at a separate table, with no
other kids, and won't be allowed to talk to any of the other kids. If he
can sit at that table for a week without disrupting, then he'll go on to the
next level. I can understand the necessity for all this, but I have **major
serious doubts** about his ability to go an entire week without getting into
trouble, even from the isolation room.

The people at school have said this is basically his "last chance" in this
program. I can't say I disagree with them. If he fails at this last
chance, he will be placed in an even *more* restrictive program. There were
hints at the last meeting at school (last Wednesday, the last time he got
suspended) that the next level would involve going to a "day treatment"
facility, a mental hospital which works closely with the school district.
He would have lots of interaction with therapists who would call him on his
behaviors immediately, every time. They can use physical restraint. I know
this is going to sound horrible, but a huge part of me hopes he *does* fail,
so he can be sent to this day treatment.

We feel like we're talking to a brick wall. No matter how many times we
talk, yell, plead, whatever, nothing is getting through to this kid. We are
just about done trying.
--
ColoradoSkiBum

: Have you had an assessment done on him here in this school for ADHD or any
: of the other types of problems that goes along with this?

Yes, he does not have ADD or ADHD.


: Has there been
: medication involved while he has been living with you?

No. He ran out of his medication about a month after coming to live with us.
Since his mother had allowed his health insurance to lapse, and I could not
add him to my insurance until October, we asked him if he wanted to stay on
the medication or stop using it. He elected to stop using it. A couple of
months after that we had him re-evaluated and he shows no sign of ADD or
ADHD.


: Do you have a child psychologist in your area that deals only with
children
: and these types of behaviors? Are you willing to find another one for him?
: Not necessarily just a therapist, but a true blue child psychologist?

Probably, but I'm not sure we can afford the expense involved. Our
insurance does not have very good mental health coverage; they will cover
"family therapy" but have nothing in place for individual therapy. I don't
know about in-hospital mental health treatment options, was going to call
them next week to find out.



: I can understand why you want a military school.

Like I said, through responses here I've discovered that military school is
not a good option for him.
--
ColoradoSkiBum

Whew, you do have your hands full. Okay a couple of things,

Have you had an assessment done on him here in this school for ADHD or any
of the other types of problems that goes along with this? Has there been
medication involved while he has been living with you?

Do you have a child psychologist in your area that deals only with children
and these types of behaviors? Are you willing to find another one for him?
Not necessarily just a therapist, but a true blue child psychologist?

I can understand why you want a military school. However, in my perspective,
all of his life he has been picked on and bossed and not really given
unconditional love. For you and your husband (are you married, I'm sorry I
didn't pick up if you are) to send him away, would in my mind reinforce to
the boy that he is not wanted by yet more people in his life. I would try my
best to not send this child away. Does he enjoy school at all? Is there
anything that he enjoys doing that he could participate in? Good luck. I'm
not sure if any of this helps, but I truly do hope that you can turn this
boy's life around. I feel for you. )
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

ColoradoSkiBum wrote in message
...
From everything I've heard here military school is not a good option for
my
SS. That conversation was evolving into a whole different conversation,
so
I decided to start a new thread on a different subject.

We don't know what to do anymore. I've tried to write the whole story
below. It's going to be a bit scattered and
stream-of-consciousness...there's just so much here I don't know how to
tell
it all.

SS came to live with us 2 summers ago at age 10 1/2. He grew up with mom
in
Florida. Mom has had him on various medications for ADHD since he was 2
years old. Basically, she kept taking him to different pediatricians
until
she finally found one who would prescribe something, because she couldn't
handle him at 2 years old.

SS has a sister who's 3 years younger. Ever since the first time I met
them
(when they were 4 and 7), she has bossed him around constantly. He always
did what she said because at home, if he didn't, he'd get in trouble.

I met the dad when the kids were 3 and 6, and he moved away from Florida
to
be with me. 2 years later we moved to Colorado, which was even farther
away, but not really any different since a plane ride is a plane ride,
after
all. He was not very involved in their upbringing. They come stay with
us
for about a month every summer, which is when we really see the
interactions
between brother and sister, and they were getting more disturbing every
year.

2 summers ago, Mom had said she was trying to get him diagnosed with
bipolar
disorder. She was thoroughly convinced that he's bipolar but could not
find
a pediatrician to support her "diagnosis" and prescribe something. That
was
one of the things that convinced us that he really needed to come live
with
us.

SS has always hated living in Florida, he was bored out of his mind
because
his mother and her BF never *did* anything, just sat at home all the time.
He had no respect for her or her BF and his behavior at home was just as
bad
as his behavior at school.
So 2 years ago when the kids were here for their summer visit and we told
him that we were going to keep him here to live with us, he was
ecstatic--said he had been waiting for that for 2 years (ever since we
moved
to Colorado). He used to be afraid of *everything*--I mean scared to
death!
Afraid to ride in the car in the mountains, to the point of obsessing
about
it. Afraid to climb on rocks. You name it, it scared him. He would
stand
there and bawl like a 2-year-old if we tried to get him to do anything
even
slightly risky. The other thing
is, he tends to give up very easily--he tried bowling when he was 10 and
it
turned into a temper tantrum, him stomping his feet on the floor and
crying.
His sister made fun of him at these times, which was
somewhat understandable--she's just a little girl after all--but I'm sure
Mom supported this. The crying and temper tantrums have improved, at
least
around us. And the obsessive worrying about anything even slightly
dangerous has
gotten a bit better, but is still there to a degree.

Now flash to the present. SS has gotten much better with behavior at
home.
He does not try to put anything over on us anymore, and his home behavior
is
*far* better than his school behavior.
For the last couple of years he's had a pattern of making and losing
friends; he'd have one friend (only one), then he'd do something really
outrageous and that friend would decide he didn't really want to be
friends
anymore, and that was that. Lots of ruined friendships for a couple of
years, now he has one friend that he's managed to keep for a while, so
that
indicates to us that his behavior with his friends is improving, that he
can
control himself when he wants to. They've met a third friend who's a
couple
of years younger, and he picks on the younger kid constantly--*not* all in
good fun, it's really very hurtful to the other boy but kids will be kids
I
guess.

His school behavior is deplorable. He makes up outrageous stories about
himself. Example: Last year he went to another school for most of the
year, then transferred right after spring break to a different school with
a
better program for him (he's in the SIED program for kids with "severe
emotional disabilities"). At the first school he was in concert choir but
he *hated* it, he wouldn't even sing, would not even open his mouth--other
kids even complained about him to the teacher. Then when he went to the
new
school he told everyone there that he was the "best tenor in the state."
He's always talking about all the things he can do on his skateboard but
in
reality he's scared to death of it. A couple days ago at school they were
reading an article, something about a Chinese restaurant in Los Angeles,
and
he spoke up and told everyone that we (his parents) know the owner of that
restaurant personally. NOT! He's told everyone that he's on the Olympic
ski
racing team and has sponsors calling him from all over the world offering
him millions of dollars. He makes up all these stories about himself,
thinking they will make him look cool but they *don't*, they just make him
look like an ass!

Last year at his old school--this was about 6 months ago I guess--I got an
email from his teacher that he had been handing out dollar bills to all of
his "friends" at lunch time. He didn't *have* any friends at school, all
the other kids *hated* him. But he took all of his allowance to school
and
gave dollar bills to anyone who would sit with him at the lunch table.

Last year, right after he transferred into the new school, the kids in the
SIED program went up to the mountains to do this ropes course. Very
popular
for kids in at-risk programs, supposed to teach them trust, etc. He was
*scared to death*, I mean terrified, crying even, just like 2 years ago.
Then the next day at
school when they were talking about it, and everyone was talking about how
scared they were, he insisted that he *wasn't* afraid at all, he would do
it
again, nothing to it, etc. Even when everyone in the room looked at him
and
pointed out in detail how terrified he was, he denied it.

At school he frequently refuses to do his work. This is the general rule
for him. He tells his teachers he's not going to do it, they can't make
him, if they try to make him do it his parents are going to sue them (NOT)
and on and on and on. His SIED teacher has started faxing work home for
him
that he refuses to do at school, so he can do it as soon as he gets
home--because he wouldn't *think* of telling us he "won't do it."

A couple of days ago he told someone in the classroom that they were
"gay."
One of the teacher assistants told him he couldn't use that word in the
classroom. He was just on his way out the door and he turned around and
said GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY. Then he insisted that he couldn't
get
into trouble because they didn't have any proof, they didn't have it on
videotape. And of course that his parents were going to sue them if they
tried to get him into trouble.

The program he's in is partly self-contained, partly mainstreamed, the
goal
of course being to mainstream all kids into regular classes. Every
morning
they meet in the SIED teacher's room for an hour and have a "group"
session.
There are about 10 kids in the program. The "group" things are sometimes
really light (like "all the people who like Coke better than Pepsi raise
your hand!) and sometimes much heavier like talking about home/parent
issues. Some of the kids have parents or other relatives that have been
sent to Iraq. My SS does not participate in these "group" sessions. Not
only does he not participate, he actively disrupts them by telling
everybody
that they're stupid, their problems are stupid, he even went so far as to
tell one little girl whose dad had just been shipped out that her dad was
probably already dead! For the last couple of weeks in
his science class he's been picking on a HANDICAPPED kid!

This is not a person I am proud to know, in fact I'm ashamed to admit that
he lives in the same house as me. He's been here for more than 2 years
and
his behavior is as deplorable as ever. He was suspended on Monday for
calling his SIED teacher a bitch. All the other kids in the SIED class
want
to beat him up for that, and I can't blame them! He went back to school
Tuesday, then yesterday he got suspended again for more of the same type
of
behavior--2 days this time.

The other kids in his class are so ****ed off they can't stand him
anymore.
They are a *very* forgiving bunch of kids but they can't understand why he
acts the way he does (nobody can!). On Monday when he goes back to
school,
Dad is going to go with him all day, and the group session in the morning
is
going to be about *him.* He'll have to sit there and listen and possibly
respond, with Dad there to make sure he responds in an appropriate manner.

Last summer while we were on vacation in Montana, we dropped him off at
the
public swimming pool one day (I had to take a college class for a week)
and
he was attacked by 3 younger kids in the locker room. They didn't
actually
beat him up, but that was probably only because the lifeguard walked in
just
as they were getting warmed up. As usual he was talking "stuff" to them
in
the pool, then when he decided he was in too deep so-to-speak he decided
to
just leave, and they followed him into the locker room. Anyway, after
that
incident we decided to sign him up for karate lessons. He's been going
for
a month, still a white belt but has of course told everybody at school
that
he "knows karate" and "could take a gun away from a cop." He actually
tries
to *do* these karate kicks on other kids--not just playing around, he
thinks
he's serious! So we've stopped the karate lessons, he's obviously too
immature.

BTW he has been to a therapist, went to one for a few months and really
liked the guy, would ask me "when's the next time I get to go see Danny?"
But he wouldn't talk to the therapist, and finally Danny called me in and
said he couldn't help my SS anymore because he wouldn't talk. Just kept
giving evasive answers. We were all sitting there in his office when he
told me "Bobby says he's not afraid of anything at all." My SS--who was
fiddling with something and looked like he was on another planet--pipes up
and says "I'm afraid of things." Danny says "What things?" My SS says,
"The things that I'm afraid of." Danny says "What things are you afraid
of,
Bobby?" And my SS again says "The things that I'm afraid of." And all the
while he's fiddling with this cup, won't look at anybody, looks like he's
completely tuned out. So Danny told me, he can't do anything for my SS
until he stops being evasive and starts talking. And that I should not
bring him back until *he* asks to go back.

So. If you've read this far, you can see this kid has a ton of problems.
Sorry if it seems like I'm rambling. Tried not to leave anything out but
also wanted to be as brief as possible. LOL...

At any rate, as the subject implies, we're about at our wit's end. SS is
being "pulled back" into the program so it will be as restrictive as is
possible within the construct of the program. He'll be confined to the
"time out" room for an entire week. He's managed to disrupt class in the
past even from the timeout room, which is basically an isolation room in
the
back! *IF* he can go a whole week without disrupting the class, then
he'll
be allowed to sit in the regular classroom but at a separate table, with
no
other kids, and won't be allowed to talk to any of the other kids. If he
can sit at that table for a week without disrupting, then he'll go on to
the
next level. I can understand the necessity for all this, but I have
**major
serious doubts** about his ability to go an entire week without getting
into
trouble, even from the isolation room.

The people at school have said this is basically his "last chance" in this
program. I can't say I disagree with them. If he fails at this last
chance, he will be placed in an even *more* restrictive program. There
were
hints at the last meeting at school (last Wednesday, the last time he got
suspended) that the next level would involve going to a "day treatment"
facility, a mental hospital which works closely with the school district.
He would have lots of interaction with therapists who would call him on
his
behaviors immediately, every time. They can use physical restraint. I
know
this is going to sound horrible, but a huge part of me hopes he *does*
fail,
so he can be sent to this day treatment.

We feel like we're talking to a brick wall. No matter how many times we
talk, yell, plead, whatever, nothing is getting through to this kid. We
are
just about done trying.
--
ColoradoSkiBum

ColoradoSkiBum wrote:

Sue wrote
: Do you have a child psychologist in your area that deals only with
children
: and these types of behaviors? Are you willing to find another one for him?
: Not necessarily just a therapist, but a true blue child psychologist?

Probably, but I'm not sure we can afford the expense involved. Our
insurance does not have very good mental health coverage; they will cover
"family therapy" but have nothing in place for individual therapy. I don't
know about in-hospital mental health treatment options, was going to call
them next week to find out.


It seems to me that if they have "family coverage"
that ought to do the trick if you can find a care provider
who's in network (or whatever else has to happen for him
or her to be covered). After all, I would imagine that
the whole family would benefit from help in learning to
deal with whatever his issues are, in addition to whatever
he needs for himself.

Honestly, it sounds to me like he really does
need good help from a good child psychologist. I know
that expenses can be difficult, but if you were willing
to find a way to fund military school, why not put the
same (not inconsiderable) money toward the health care
he probably needs? If he needed treatment for cancer
that wasn't covered by your insurance, I imagine you'd
be working to move heaven and earth to get the treatment
he needed. Mental health care is every bit as important
to his long term health and wellbeing. I don't mean to
imply that you're trivializing this, nor do I mean to
imply that it would be easy to find the money to get a
good child psychologist. And, of course, I could be
totally wrong in thinking that a child psychologist is
what he needs. But it just seems to me that you all
have tried *a lot* of things--maybe even everything
you could possibly do on your own. It just sounds like
it's time for an expert here.

I have to say that your description of what his
previous therapist did seems utterly inadequate to me.
This sounds like a kid who's in *desperate* need of help,
and who isn't capable of hauling himself out of whatever
pit he's in, and that therapist felt it was okay to just
abandon him until he felt more like cooperating? Isn't
the whole point that he seems incapable of making the
decisions he needs to make to help himself? If your SS
wasn't willing to chat, then someone needs to find a
way to draw him out somehow, not just give up on him!
I guess that's what makes me think you need more expertise
on board here. You've exhausted your own expertise,
though you've clearly given it the old college try.
You've exhausted the expertise of Danny-the-therapist.
I have to believe, though, that there's someone out there
who *does* have the skills and experience to deal with
this, and I suspect that your and your SS's quality of
life depends on your finding that person and finding
some way or other to apply the necessary resources.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"ColoradoSkiBum" wrote in message
...
From everything I've heard here military school is not a good option for
my
SS. That conversation was evolving into a whole different conversation,
so
I decided to start a new thread on a different subject.

We don't know what to do anymore. I've tried to write the whole story
below. It's going to be a bit scattered and
stream-of-consciousness...there's just so much here I don't know how to
tell
it all.



You and your SS have been through a great deal. The fact that you and your
SO have hung in there with him this long is good. He needs to know he can
throw his worst stuff at you and you won't get rid of him or dismiss him out
of hand. The problems, however, are deeply ingrained and have been probably
in development since he was an infant. The treatment will not be completed
in a short time: it took a long time to get here, and it takes time to
change things again. I encourage you to have a complete evaluation by a
licensed child psychologist to determine what the issues actually are and
obtain recommendations for what treatment is most likely to help him. Most
insurances do cover that type of evaluation, even if much of the other
mental health benefits are poor. Make sure you get a good psychologist
experienced with youth. Make sure you explain to them why you want the
evaluation. Ask that the evaluation be based on both personality and
projective testing and contain clear specific recommendations for treatment,
as well as a diagnosis on all five axes. If the diagnosis includes Rule
Out's ["R/O] be aware that someone should rule those in or out within three
months of the R/O being made. That someone should be a psychiatrist, the
psychologist, or a licensed therapist with at least a Masters degree.

The day treatment setting may be very helpful. The schools do not sound
like they are really ready to continue working with him and are at a loss
for how to work with him. It sounds like, from your explanation, that they
are just going back to square one. If doing what they did didn't work the
first time, what is going to make him change this time?

A different therapist should also be in order. One should be provided by
the day treatment facility, which should help with your poor insurance
problem. If not, see what you can do to find someone who is decent who can
fit in your budget. Do not be shy about asking for pro bono counseling if
your income is particularly low but you don't meet Medicaid guidelines.
Also, if the diagnostics in the psychological evaluation fall into the major
mental illness categories you can apply to Social Security for SSI [and
Medicaid] on your SS's behalf. The Medicaid pays for a great deal of mental
and behavioral health services that your insurance probably does not cover
or does not cover as extensively.

Good luck. Your SS is worth every penny and bit of time you put into him.
It will be a long road, but it is truly worth it.

-Aula

: Honestly, it sounds to me like he really does
: need good help from a good child psychologist. I know
: that expenses can be difficult, but if you were willing
: to find a way to fund military school

Remember the part where I said I was on a "fact finding mission" re military
schools? The expense is one of the facts that makes it impossible.
--
ColoradoSkiBum

: You and your SS have been through a great deal. The fact that you and
your
: SO have hung in there with him this long is good. He needs to know he can
: throw his worst stuff at you and you won't get rid of him or dismiss him
out
: of hand.

We've been very careful to let him know that we will not send him back to
Florida, ever, for any reason, no matter what he does or what we might say
in the heat of anger. His dad does have a bit of a temper, but we've both
made sure (during calmer times) that he knows that. There was one point
last year, at his previous school, where he told his teachers he was going
to go to "plan B" and move back to Florida. I waited a couple of days, then
went into his room one night and sat on the edge of his bed, and told him
going back to Florida was not an option because we *like* having him here.
He just laughed and said "Yeah, I know."


: The problems, however, are deeply ingrained and have been probably
: in development since he was an infant. The treatment will not be
completed
: in a short time: it took a long time to get here, and it takes time to
: change things again. I encourage you to have a complete evaluation by a
: licensed child psychologist to determine what the issues actually are and
: obtain recommendations for what treatment is most likely to help him.
Most
: insurances do cover that type of evaluation, even if much of the other
: mental health benefits are poor.

Well that's encouraging at least. We have Kaiser for insurance, and they're
pretty spotty on mental health coverage. I guess they make up for that on
all the other excellent health benefits we get though. :-)

: Make sure you get a good psychologist
: experienced with youth. Make sure you explain to them why you want the
: evaluation.

I think maybe that's where we went wrong with the first therapist. I never
did explain everything to him--he really seemed like he didn't *want* me to
give him the whole story before hand, like he wanted to make up his own mind
or something. So some of the stories my SS told him--like all the tricks he
can do on his skateboard for example--I'm sure he didn't know that was all
just talk. Next time we do this I'll be a lot more assertive with the psych
about what the problem is and what we need.

snip

: The day treatment setting may be very helpful. The schools do not sound
: like they are really ready to continue working with him and are at a loss
: for how to work with him. It sounds like, from your explanation, that
they
: are just going back to square one. If doing what they did didn't work the
: first time, what is going to make him change this time?

No, that's not true. They've never had him in a setting as restrictive as
this. The whole thing is set up with points for good behavior, a certain
number of points earns you a privelege, that sort of thing. He's learned
how to manipulate that system. But he's never been pulled back to what
they're calling "level zero"--all day in the time-out room (it's an
isolation room but it does have a big window into the regular classroom),
and he has to stay in there for an entire week without causing trouble (like
opening the door and saying "Janie I need your help, Janie Janie Janie Janie
Janie Janie Janie" while Janie is in the middle of a group discussion with
the other 9 kids in the class--yes he's done this many times). So this will
be a different approach. That plus the fact that he has lost *all* of his
priveleges both at school and at home, and he won't get them back until we
see a *very significant* change in his behavior. If we *don't* see that
change in his behavior, that's definitely going to indicate to us that he
can't change it, even though he says he wants to.


: A different therapist should also be in order. One should be provided by
: the day treatment facility, which should help with your poor insurance
: problem. If not, see what you can do to find someone who is decent who
can
: fit in your budget. Do not be shy about asking for pro bono counseling if
: your income is particularly low but you don't meet Medicaid guidelines.

We're not that bad-off, but we are one of the great majority of families who
are living paycheck to paycheck, and with the economy here in the shape that
it's in, that's a factor as well. Usually mental health professionals are
willing to cut you some slack if they don't have to deal with your insurance
company, so we were able to get the last guy to come down considerably. But
he also wasn't an MD.
--
ColoradoSkiBum

ColoradoSkiBum wrote:

: Honestly, it sounds to me like he really does
: need good help from a good child psychologist. I know
: that expenses can be difficult, but if you were willing
: to find a way to fund military school

Remember the part where I said I was on a "fact finding mission" re military
schools? The expense is one of the facts that makes it impossible.


Ahhh, gotcha. It sounds like maybe Aula's suggestions
might be helpful turning up some potential funding sources.
Hope they help! Also, don't ever take "no" for an answer
the first couple rounds from your insurance. Escalate as
far as necessary, and see if you can get his physician to
get involved if that might help. Since he's already in
some sort of system through school, have you ever broached
funding issues with counselors or others in that program?
Sometimes people like that know of different programs that
might be able to help if your insurance won't.

Good luck,
Ericka

Ericka Kammerer wrote in message ...
ColoradoSkiBum wrote:

Honestly, it sounds to me like he really does
need good help from a good child psychologist. I know
that expenses can be difficult, but if you were willing
to find a way to fund military school, why not put the
same (not inconsiderable) money toward the health care
he probably needs?


snip

I have to agree with Ericka here. What disturbed me about your post
was that nowhere in it did it say that your SS has been evaluated by
psychiatrists/neurologists. You said that his biomom took him to
pediatricians, but they aren't experts on mental health and are really
not capable of evaluating a child with a lot of issues like your SS.

I have to say that your description of what his
previous therapist did seems utterly inadequate to me.

I agree. I don't know what kind of therapist this was, but a competent
psychiatrist/psychologist would *never* do this to a child.

I have one question that wasn't clear to me. Has your SS been in
social skills groups? You mentioned that he has a group in school, but
it wasn't clear whether or not he's been in social skills groups that
specialize in teaching kids who just don't 'get it' how to socialize
with their peers. I know two boys who have gone to such groups, and in
both cases it made a world of difference.

Another question. Has your SS been evaluated for PDD or Aspergers? The
problems with his social skills might just be that he has no clue of
how to understand the subtile social clues that we all give. Many kids
don't, and they need help identifying body language and facial
expressions.


I have to believe, though, that there's someone out there
who *does* have the skills and experience to deal with
this, and I suspect that your and your SS's quality of
life depends on your finding that person and finding
some way or other to apply the necessary resources.

I again agree with Ericka. I have a son with some pretty intense
"issues" and although my child has way more friends than I wish he
did, he's got issues dealing with social skills. Unlike your SS, his
school behaviour is much less difficult than his home behaviour, which
is deplorable much of the time. My kid has been carefully evaluated
for a lot of different suspected neurological and psychological
problems. Some have been discarded (bipolar, Aspergers) and some have
been diagnosed (ADHD, ODD), but nothing has been as helpful as finding
out about explosive/inflexible kids. That is my son's issue, and we're
dealing with it as best we can. He has a therapist who he absolutely
cannot snow, much as he tries, and he really is reluctant to open up
to her, but she just keeps at it until he talks. We're making progress
but it's very very slow. Having a kid with emotional problems is very
trying, especially if you don't have a good support system and you
don't have people who are understanding. To me, your situation sounds
pretty dire. The school doesn't sound particularly empathetic, your SS
sounds terribly unhappy and miserable, and you do sound like you're at
your wits end. That isn't a good combination.

I guess I'd question why your child isn't getting the care he should
be getting. You don't say where in CO you live, but you should be able
to find competent care in the Denver/Boulder area. Perhaps you could
take your SS there for evaluation, if nothing else.

Marjorie

Best wishes,
Ericka

: I have to agree with Ericka here. What disturbed me about your post
: was that nowhere in it did it say that your SS has been evaluated by
: psychiatrists/neurologists. You said that his biomom took him to
: pediatricians, but they aren't experts on mental health and are really
: not capable of evaluating a child with a lot of issues like your SS.

Actually, it just occurred to me that he *was* seeing a therapist regularly
when he lived in Florida. I don't know for how long, or what type of
therapist, but AFAIK it did no good whatsoever.

: I have one question that wasn't clear to me. Has your SS been in
: social skills groups? You mentioned that he has a group in school, but
: it wasn't clear whether or not he's been in social skills groups that
: specialize in teaching kids who just don't 'get it' how to socialize
: with their peers. I know two boys who have gone to such groups, and in
: both cases it made a world of difference.

I see some clarification is in order. The program he's in is specifically
for kids with "severe emotional disabilities." It's called SIED (not sure
what the "I" stands for) and it's technically part of special education. I
don't know if the SIED label is the same in every state, but like all
special education, it's a *very* well-funded program due to federal
mandates. The student/teacher ratio is a teacher's dream: The class he's in
has about 10 students total (might be 11), one certified teacher and 2
qualified teacher aides (these aren't just parent volunteers). The major
thrust of the whole program is to teach these kids social skills. So, to
answer your question, he's getting a dose of that every day. He's just not
*getting* it. He really *needs* intensive one-on-one; it seems that for him
even a 3-to-one student/teacher ratio is too high.


: Another question. Has your SS been evaluated for PDD or Aspergers?

I'm not sure what PDD is, but we have done some reading on Aspergers and the
symptoms don't really seem to fit. We went over a checklist actually,
something like 30 items on the checklist, and he only "matched" on maybe 4
of them, and 2 of those were "iffy."

: The
: problems with his social skills might just be that he has no clue of
: how to understand the subtile social clues that we all give. Many kids
: don't, and they need help identifying body language and facial
: expressions.

That is likely part of his problem, but at this point that's so buried under
everything else that it's relatively unnoticeable. He seems to delight in
ignoring even the *overt* signals, let alone the body language.

: Having a kid with emotional problems is very
: trying, especially if you don't have a good support system and you
: don't have people who are understanding. To me, your situation sounds
: pretty dire. The school doesn't sound particularly empathetic

Nooooo, no no, I'm sorry if I have given anybody that impression. The
school is **extremely** empathetic. We had to do a school change to get to
this point, but the people in the program there are *****very*****
supportive. One of the teacher aides has developed a very close
relationship with him; he's talked to her about things that he has not
shared with anybody. Like the incident last summer where he was attacked in
the pool locker room. That has affected him very deeply, but he never talks
about it with us. But she and him have had some very in-depth conversations
about it. He's really opened up to her, and also to his teacher, but the
opening up has yet to manifest itself in his overall behavior towards his
peers and other teachers.


: I guess I'd question why your child isn't getting the care he should
: be getting. You don't say where in CO you live, but you should be able
: to find competent care in the Denver/Boulder area. Perhaps you could
: take your SS there for evaluation, if nothing else.


We are in the Denver area. I plan on making some phone calls to my
insurance company (Kaiser) on Monday, to see what kind of options we have as
far as dealing with this. Thanks for the feedback.
--
ColoradoSkiBum