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Bullies at a birthday party



 
 
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  #81  
Old July 10th 07, 08:22 PM posted to misc.kids
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,278
Default Bullies at a birthday party

In article , Ericka Kammerer
says...

Banty wrote:
In article . com, Barbara
says...


To me, bullying is very, very serious. If we start to call every
little insult or tease *bullying* then the term loses its power and
becomes trivial.


Well, yes and no. A lot of true bullying flies under the radar. For example,
it took quite some time for the social-exclusion and rumor-mongering behavior of
girls that age to be identified as a form of bullying.


I can see both sides of that. It's true that there are
very serious instances of bullying that are hidden, sneaky, or
take forms other than physical threats or violence. On the other
hand, there are people who call behaviors bullying that are simply
normal situations getting out of hand, or someone losing their
temper, or someone being socially clueless or tactless or
whatever.


That's what I meant by "yes or no".

Pre-teen boys are often tactless and have a particularly
juvenile sense of humor.


They ARE??!? They DO??!? But my 14 year old has shown NONE of that!

Not. ;-)

They are sometimes rough and tumble--
usually starting out perfectly genially and on occasion accidentally
morphing into something more serious. Some kids are just impulsive
and don't think before they act. None of those things are *good*
behavior, but in my opinion, they aren't bullying. Bullying has
to do with deliberately excluding someone, or intending to demean
someone, or ganging up to coerce someone to do something, or
things like that. It's not uncommon for pre-teen boys to *like*
each other and get into tussles over one thing or another, and
it's also common for some boys to be very uncomfortable with
that sort of physicality or even to be overwhelmed by it. They
need to learn to be more sensitive and they need to learn to
behave in more appropriate ways, but I don't think that's
bullying.


True true. But, if a boy is picking up some nefarious intent, it's probably
there. It's an extremely socially intuned stage.

I don't know whether the boys in the OP's post are
bullies or if maybe they're just engaging in some inappropriate
behaviors that aren't bullying. I do think that hollering
"bully!" when it's not bullying *does* devalue actual
bullying that ought to get more attention and be taken
more seriously. I also think it's counter-productive,
as the steps one needs to take to deal with bullying are
often quite different from those one needs to take to
deal with kids being clueless or socially inept or impulsive.


Well, in the case of the party, it really doesn't matter.

So, it matters which it is. And, of course, it matters
because people feel differently about the kid and the
parents depending on which it is. Call someone a bully,
and all of a sudden the child is bad, the parents are
bad, and they need to get excluded from polite society.
That's a bit overkill if it's just the case that someone
needs to catch a clue, or a couple of temperamentally
mismatched kids maybe ought to choose not to spend too
much time together until maybe they mature a bit.


Yes and no ;-)

Cheers,
Banty

  #82  
Old July 10th 07, 08:44 PM posted to misc.kids
Ericka Kammerer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,293
Default Bullies at a birthday party

Banty wrote:
In article , Ericka Kammerer
says...


Pre-teen boys are often tactless and have a particularly
juvenile sense of humor.


They ARE??!? They DO??!? But my 14 year old has shown NONE of that!

Not. ;-)


;-) I knew *you* knew that, but I do run into a
whole lot of parents who don't seem to get that, especially
(to engage in a hideously broad generalization) parents who
only have younger kids or only have girls. It's always a
bit amazing how many get on their high horse about how
such behavior shouldn't be tolerated, and definitely
wouldn't be tolerated in their house. Well, if you've
got a couple of those boys and you figure out how to get
through the pre-teen years without the roughhousing or
the juvenile humor, do please let me know ;-)

They are sometimes rough and tumble--
usually starting out perfectly genially and on occasion accidentally
morphing into something more serious. Some kids are just impulsive
and don't think before they act. None of those things are *good*
behavior, but in my opinion, they aren't bullying. Bullying has
to do with deliberately excluding someone, or intending to demean
someone, or ganging up to coerce someone to do something, or
things like that. It's not uncommon for pre-teen boys to *like*
each other and get into tussles over one thing or another, and
it's also common for some boys to be very uncomfortable with
that sort of physicality or even to be overwhelmed by it. They
need to learn to be more sensitive and they need to learn to
behave in more appropriate ways, but I don't think that's
bullying.


True true. But, if a boy is picking up some nefarious intent, it's probably
there. It's an extremely socially intuned stage.


You think so? I don't know about that. One of my boys
seems to have fairly reliable intuition about those sorts of
things. The other is completely and totally clueless. He is
*forever* attributing motives to people that simply don't exist--
and, not surprisingly, he's not erring on the side of leaping
to conclusions to people are being kind to him ;-) He's
lightning fast to assume that every offhand comment is somehow
a personal attack.

I don't know whether the boys in the OP's post are
bullies or if maybe they're just engaging in some inappropriate
behaviors that aren't bullying. I do think that hollering
"bully!" when it's not bullying *does* devalue actual
bullying that ought to get more attention and be taken
more seriously. I also think it's counter-productive,
as the steps one needs to take to deal with bullying are
often quite different from those one needs to take to
deal with kids being clueless or socially inept or impulsive.


Well, in the case of the party, it really doesn't matter.


At least from the OP's perspective. I think from
the hosts' perspective there's an obligation not to invite
a bully (the other kids shouldn't have to deal with that),
but deciding to invite all of a group of kids who don't
always get along is not only a viable strategy, but probably
the best one going in the ever-shifting landscape of pre-teen
social interactions.

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #83  
Old July 10th 07, 09:12 PM posted to misc.kids
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,278
Default Bullies at a birthday party

In article , Ericka Kammerer
says...

Banty wrote:
In article , Ericka Kammerer
says...


Pre-teen boys are often tactless and have a particularly
juvenile sense of humor.


They ARE??!? They DO??!? But my 14 year old has shown NONE of that!

Not. ;-)


;-) I knew *you* knew that, but I do run into a
whole lot of parents who don't seem to get that, especially
(to engage in a hideously broad generalization) parents who
only have younger kids or only have girls. It's always a
bit amazing how many get on their high horse about how
such behavior shouldn't be tolerated, and definitely
wouldn't be tolerated in their house. Well, if you've
got a couple of those boys and you figure out how to get
through the pre-teen years without the roughhousing or
the juvenile humor, do please let me know ;-)


Ya rides it out.



They are sometimes rough and tumble--
usually starting out perfectly genially and on occasion accidentally
morphing into something more serious. Some kids are just impulsive
and don't think before they act. None of those things are *good*
behavior, but in my opinion, they aren't bullying. Bullying has
to do with deliberately excluding someone, or intending to demean
someone, or ganging up to coerce someone to do something, or
things like that. It's not uncommon for pre-teen boys to *like*
each other and get into tussles over one thing or another, and
it's also common for some boys to be very uncomfortable with
that sort of physicality or even to be overwhelmed by it. They
need to learn to be more sensitive and they need to learn to
behave in more appropriate ways, but I don't think that's
bullying.


True true. But, if a boy is picking up some nefarious intent, it's probably
there. It's an extremely socially intuned stage.


You think so? I don't know about that. One of my boys
seems to have fairly reliable intuition about those sorts of
things. The other is completely and totally clueless. He is
*forever* attributing motives to people that simply don't exist--
and, not surprisingly, he's not erring on the side of leaping
to conclusions to people are being kind to him ;-) He's
lightning fast to assume that every offhand comment is somehow
a personal attack.


And it can go the other way as well. Both the people involved and onlookers
(and not both at the same time else it wouldn't be as much a problem!) can be
utterly about nefarious stuff going on. But I'm inclined to trust the person's
instinct given something like a party.


I don't know whether the boys in the OP's post are
bullies or if maybe they're just engaging in some inappropriate
behaviors that aren't bullying. I do think that hollering
"bully!" when it's not bullying *does* devalue actual
bullying that ought to get more attention and be taken
more seriously. I also think it's counter-productive,
as the steps one needs to take to deal with bullying are
often quite different from those one needs to take to
deal with kids being clueless or socially inept or impulsive.


Well, in the case of the party, it really doesn't matter.


At least from the OP's perspective. I think from
the hosts' perspective there's an obligation not to invite
a bully (the other kids shouldn't have to deal with that),
but deciding to invite all of a group of kids who don't
always get along is not only a viable strategy, but probably
the best one going in the ever-shifting landscape of pre-teen
social interactions.


Well, they may have invited bullies, thinking that THEIR son, being a bully
himself, or a go-along-to-get-along type (read the O.P. - this sounds like a
likely case), doesn't have a problem, so any OTHER kid that has a problem -
well, it's "their problem". There are parents who are perfectly fine with
either of these strategies, and don't recognize bullying behavior as a real
issue at all. Which sucks (and adds to the whole scenario), but, if they're
drawing up a party invite list, what would you expect?

Banty

  #84  
Old July 11th 07, 06:21 AM posted to misc.kids
Duprés
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Bullies at a birthday party

On Jul 5, 10:38 am, Vickie wrote:
Hey,

My son is invited to his cousin's sleepover. Cousin lives
convieniently right down the street. He is balking on going. He gets
along well with his cousin, and a mutual close friend of our family
and theirs will be going. Someone he likes very much.

It is a couple other invitees he has problems with. They live on our
block also and my son just doesn't get on with them. My son isn't
overly sensitive, but these two are fairly *bullyish* and really like
the gang-up mentality. Sort of normal for 11 year old boys. My son
can take it pretty much, but they get pretty mean.

I wish he would go and take these 2 down a few pegs, but that is just
me. So, he is undecided if he will go. Another options I told him
was - if they start at him, to not let it get to him, tell them to
quit, and not lose his temper. Then if they don't say - I am outta
here, and come on home. I really don't know at this point which way
to advise him.

The other sticky wicket is that this is his cousin. It will be a
little awkward telling my SIL that my son won't be attending. I will
do it, of course, my son comes first. Just a crappy situation.

So, should I try to persuade him to go and stand up for himself?
Should I let him decide what he is ready for? And should I mention
anything to my SIL ahead of time - like make sure you keep an eye on
so and so because they can be bullies or - just make an excuse as to
why he won't be attending (if he decides not to go)?

Vickie


i'm just real confused why it's all between the women folk.

how bout your husband goes and talks to his brothers and says
something like, "your kids friends are little assholes, are you going
to be there modeling the really good male behavior our family is known
for or should i come and be at your house during that party? you let
kids act like assholes at your house? why do you do that, brother?
wassup with the hooligans picking on MY son? why is that happening at
your house, brother?

Something like that.

 




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