how long to try "cold turkey" potty training

Chris wrote:
It happens to be the main thing to look for cited by my pediatrician
as a good first indicator. Considering if a child is definitely able
to hold their urine overnight for 8 hours and more, you can be almost
absolutely certain they can hold it for 3 hours here and there
throughout the day as well. Also, taking into consideration the
average child doesn't have nighttime wetting accidents for that length
of time, no that wouldn't be the case in your child's case and
therefore not a good indicator of daytime readiness. The problem in
that case is more so the duration of time sleeping, soundness of
sleep, growth rates of the organs and child, etc. It can be a good
indicator within reason and IS a good indicator that the child has in
fact established bladder control considering the duration differences
from night to day -- it is just something to look for.


I agree it's probably a good indicator of readiness, it's just that it's not
a good indicator of daytime unreadiness if the child can't make it through
the night dry.

Tai

"Tai" wrote in message
...
Chris wrote:
It happens to be the main thing to look for cited by my pediatrician
as a good first indicator. Considering if a child is definitely able
to hold their urine overnight for 8 hours and more, you can be almost
absolutely certain they can hold it for 3 hours here and there
throughout the day as well. Also, taking into consideration the
average child doesn't have nighttime wetting accidents for that length
of time, no that wouldn't be the case in your child's case and
therefore not a good indicator of daytime readiness. The problem in
that case is more so the duration of time sleeping, soundness of
sleep, growth rates of the organs and child, etc. It can be a good
indicator within reason and IS a good indicator that the child has in
fact established bladder control considering the duration differences
from night to day -- it is just something to look for.


I agree it's probably a good indicator of readiness, it's just that it's
not
a good indicator of daytime unreadiness if the child can't make it through
the night dry.

Tai

I have to agree here. My 2 1/2 yr old announced about a month ago that she
was ready for big girl pants-and proved it. Very few accidents, can easily
hold it a few hours.

However, she will still wet overnight, and even if she has a really solid,
nap. She just misses the signal while she's asleep.

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...

Personally, I would wait until she was dry more often during the
night, which is a good indicator of self-control. Once my daughter
woke up consistently through the night dry, she was just self-potty-
trained all of the time - as simple as that for her, but not for my
son. lol. She was between 18 months and 2 years when she did it, but
my son was more around 3'ish somewhere before accidents were a thing
of the past. Maybe try those cotton training pants during the day,
which aren't the diapers she is resisting, but also promote going to
the real potty?

like others have said, I don't think night time dryness is any kind of
indicator, particularly when they sleep as long as my DD does at night,
she's often asleep over 12 hours. Daytime naptime dryness may well be
more of an indicator, but even then it's pretty common for kids to wet
at nap time beyond training.

The reason I don't want to spend money on the cotton training pants is
because I wouldn't be able to tell when she's gone any better than in
nappies and she doesn't have the idea of pulling anything down so for
her it wouldn't be a change, it is if they've been in disposables, as
suddenly they feel wet, but she's used to that.

You might want to try going straight to underpants. My DD never did well in
the cloth trainers. She'd go if I initiated it and usually tell me if she
needed to go, but she couldn't manage them herself, and if she got
distracted, or I couldn't help her right that second, accidents happen. WHen
we switched to underpants, she could manage them herself most of the time
(every now and then she ends up with them pulled up in front, but not in
back), and started really initiating going potty on her own. In 20/20
hindsight, I probably should have gone to underpants months ago-I'd never
thought about training pants being thicker and harder to manipulate.

"Chris" wrote in message
oups.com...
It happens to be the main thing to look for cited by my pediatrician
as a good first indicator. Considering if a child is definitely able
to hold their urine overnight for 8 hours and more, you can be almost
absolutely certain they can hold it for 3 hours here and there
throughout the day as well. Also, taking into consideration the
average child doesn't have nighttime wetting accidents for that length
of time, no that wouldn't be the case in your child's case and
therefore not a good indicator of daytime readiness. The problem in
that case is more so the duration of time sleeping, soundness of
sleep, growth rates of the organs and child, etc. It can be a good
indicator within reason and IS a good indicator that the child has in
fact established bladder control considering the duration differences
from night to day -- it is just something to look for.

I think your ped. is in the minority as using it as an indicator. I've never
heard of it as a first indicator, and I've read various experts on the
subject. Dry during naps can be an indicator as to holding it for a length
of time.
I don't think at that age you need them to hold it for 3 hours anyway.
For what it's worth #1 trained at 22 months, almost overnight, during the
day, but wasn't dry at night for 18 months after that. #2 was consistantly
dry during the night at 18 months but wasn't day dry until she was just
about 2yo.
Debbie

Hi --

Night dryness has nothing to do with daytime dryness (different
mechanisms involved).

If you're doing the "cold turkey" method, then try all of the following:

1. It can take up to 5 days for the child to figure out his own body
signals. I wouldn't go on longer than that.
2. Make sure that YOU are low key about it. If you or your child are
starting to get upset about the accidents, then try a return to
diapers.
3. Have the potty constantly available. About 30 minutes after a meal
or a drink, as your child if he'd like to try using it. But remember
that the skill of making oneself go is not the same as holding it in
(long enough to reach a toilet) once you realize that you need to
go. (This is why some kids, despite going to the toilet right
before a road trip and failing to put anything in, then need to make
a pit stop 15 minutes into the trip!)
4. Give your child LOTS to drink so he has lots of opportunities to try
to use the potty.

I hope this works, since your child clearly wants it to!

Good luck,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

Hi, again --

As I understand it, night dryness happens when a hormone releases during
sleep that keeps the bladder from filling up in the first place. So no,
it's not any kind of indicator of daytime readiness.

If you start asking among your friends with children, you'll find that a
surprisingly large number of children are dry during the day long before
they're dry at night. Many kids continue to wet at night until puberty,
although most become dry by the age of 7.

If you're interested, google for "primary eneuresis", which is the
technical term.

As for anecdotes .. I have one child who was daytime trained several
years before being dry at night, and another child who was dry at night
at least a year before being daytime trained. Go figure.

--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

Personally, after the fiasco with trying to potty train my first child, I
decided then that I am not going to try and "train" them. I decided waiting
until they were ready was much better and had better outcomes. I had the
potty out in the bathroom, we talked about it, they sat on it when they
wanted, but other than that, I didn't do anything else. I don't believe in
the method of leaving the bottoms off because if you have to do that, they
are not ready. I wait until they are ready and able and when I did that,
they were trained in less than a couple of days. I did not have any
accidents to clean up and there was no stress involved for anyone. DD1
wasn't fulled trained until she was almost 4, DD2 was over 2 yrs, and DD3
had just turned 2 yrs old.
--
Sue

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
. ..
DS was so easy to potty train, I feel completely uneducated, he announced
at 26mths that he was going to use the potty, failed miserably for the day
and was then very successful and our biggest problem was the fact he was
so independent he'd want to clean the potty out into the toilet and we had
a few poo on the walls incidents.

DD being a 2nd child has had potties around her much more and so has from
time to time sat on one and has recently been demanding to be taken to the
big toilet and fighting having a nappy put on, but was never successful
and we always put the nappy on, but on Saturday morning, she was
successful, so being fearful of her getting to an age where it seems to
become a power struggle (I've seen threads on this subject so many times,
I'm probably over anxious), that we decided to jump right in. I've mostly
had her completely naked, or with just a top on and results have been
mixed, though more on the accident side than the success side :-(. There
are positive signs though, she has been dry at nap time several times and
was even dry overnight last night, this morning, she started to dribble
and was able to stop whilst I moved her to the potty, but there are plenty
of failures too and I don't know whether to just say she's not ready and
go back to nappies, or whether having these accidents is just part of the
process of her learning what her body does and that I should at least give
it more time even if we ultimately give up.

She's 25mths and usually wears real nappies.

Any ideas how long I should give it before being confident that she just
isn't ready?

Cheers
Anne

On Jul 10, 9:58 pm, Chris wrote:
On Jul 10, 8:04?pm, Anne Rogers wrote:





DS was so easy to potty train, I feel completely uneducated, he
announced at 26mths that he was going to use the potty, failed miserably
for the day and was then very successful and our biggest problem was the
fact he was so independent he'd want to clean the potty out into the
toilet and we had a few poo on the walls incidents.

DD being a 2nd child has had potties around her much more and so has
from time to time sat on one and has recently been demanding to be taken
to the big toilet and fighting having a nappy put on, but was never
successful and we always put the nappy on, but on Saturday morning, she
was successful, so being fearful of her getting to an age where it seems
to become a power struggle (I've seen threads on this subject so many
times, I'm probably over anxious), that we decided to jump right in.
I've mostly had her completely naked, or with just a top on and results
have been mixed, though more on the accident side than the success side
:-(. There are positive signs though, she has been dry at nap time
several times and was even dry overnight last night, this morning, she
started to dribble and was able to stop whilst I moved her to the potty,
but there are plenty of failures too and I don't know whether to just
say she's not ready and go back to nappies, or whether having these
accidents is just part of the process of her learning what her body does
and that I should at least give it more time even if we ultimately give up.

She's 25mths and usually wears real nappies.

Any ideas how long I should give it before being confident that she just
isn't ready?

Cheers
Anne

Personally, I would wait until she was dry more often during the
night, which is a good indicator of self-control.

I completely disagree with this. Night-time dryness is a completely
different thing than day training. Their body has to rely completely
on physiology while day-training takes more personal awareness. What
about all the kids who have bed-wetting problems well into their
school-age years?IMO, It's certainly not a good indicator of
readiness.

JennP.

like others have said, I don't think night time dryness is any kind of
The reason I don't want to spend money on the cotton training pants is
because I wouldn't be able to tell when she's gone any better than in
nappies and she doesn't have the idea of pulling anything down so for
her it wouldn't be a change, it is if they've been in disposables, as
suddenly they feel wet, but she's used to that.

HI Anne. I've done the cold turkey thing with both of my kids and they
were trained within at 2yr3m and 2yr4m. My rule of thumb was to give
it four or five days. There is a bit of a learning curve and you have
to give them a little bit of time to get that curve. After four days,
if you are still mopping up puddles several times a day then I'd
abandon ship and try again later.

Also, I wouldn't do any type of training pants in anyway. They should
feel wet and see the mess. They don't need them and if you do use
them it's for a very, very short period of time. DD (2y9m) trained at
27 months and I took her shopping for underwear. She picked out some
tacky princess panties but she loved them and the very next day was
"no more diaper day". Also, I would take an all-or-nothing approach.
Underwear all the time (except nap and bedtime if necessary). I know
so many people who don't want to deal with a potential mess and put
their kid in a diaper when they leave the house, but that's got to be
so confusing to the kid.

From your OP, I'd keep going with her just stay on top of her for a
couple more days. With ds, I could bring him to the toilet whenever I
wanted and he would go (I think some people call that "flight
training"?) But with my very strong willed dd I figured out quicky
that she would only go when she wanted to even if that was HOURS
inbetween bathroom trips. She would hold it forever but she was in
control of it. The only rule I have now is that she has to go before
we leave the house.

HTH

JennP.

bizby40 wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
bizby40 wrote:
I can't help much though, because I didn't potty train either of my
children. They just did it when they were ready. It took about a
day each. My daughter was 2Y 10M and my son was 3Y 1M.
Personally, I wouldn't wait all *that* long. I
always think you're best off if you keep getting closer
to where you want to go, rather than further away. Continuing
a situation where accidents are commonplace doesn't seem like
a positive development, and seems ripe with the possibility
to create additional hurdles for the future.
Letting them go bare bottomed can only work if they
really are ready and the only thing holding them back is
that they just haven't made the connection in their head
with what it feels like when they need to go. They need
to be able to identify that feeling *and* have the ability
to hold it until they get to the potty. If they can hold
it, but just need to put two and two together, that ought
to happen fairly quickly--I would think within a couple of
days, max. If they're not successful quickly, I would
strongly suspect that there's some part of the equation
they just aren't ready for yet.

I'm confused Ericka about whether you are responding to me here or to
the OP.

General comment there.

Best wishes,
Ericka