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#21
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The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)
Joy wrote:
"DB" wrote in message . net... "tonita" wrote in consequences. Don't have sex with someone you wouldn't want to become a parent with. Ever hear of Beer? If only we could all live in a perfect world and be as smart as you! So is it right to sentence a man to death if is can't pay the extortionate CS rates? Responsible people don't drink so much beer that they have irresponsible sex. Responsible people don't do (many) irresponsible things, but alas, The Greatest Generation is nearly all dead now. |
#22
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The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)
This to me is not "Roe v. Wade for Men." That would be a man having the
freedom to ask his pregnant woman to abort the baby because he doesn't want to go through with it. Women have the choice to abort the baby without the man's consensus, why can't man have the same choice without the woman's consensus. If she still goes though with the pregnancy, then she should not force the father to pay child support etc "Dusty" wrote in message ... http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...10/189321.html The right to abandon your child Mar 10, 2006 by Mona Charen This is one of those moments when you want to grab liberals by the lapels and demand, "Well, what did you expect?" A group called the National Center for Men has filed a lawsuit they are calling "Roe v. Wade for Men." Here are the facts: A 25-year-old computer programmer named Matt Dubay of Saginaw, Mich., was ordered by a judge to pay $500 per month in child support for a daughter he fathered with his ex-girlfriend. His contention -- and that of the National Center for Men -- is that this requirement is unconstitutional because it violates the equal protection clause. Dubay does not dispute that he is the child's father. Rather, he claims that during the course of his relationship with the mother, he was given to understand that she could not become pregnant because of a physical condition. He insists that she knew he did not want to have children with her. The courts, he and his advocates argue, are forcing parenthood upon him in a way that they cannot do to a woman. Here's the money quote from the NCM website: - More than three decades ago Roe vs. Wade gave women control of their reproductive lives but nothing in the law changed for men. Women can now have sexual intimacy without sacrificing reproductive choice. Women now have the freedom and security to enjoy lovemaking without the fear of forced procreation. Women now have control of their lives after an unplanned conception. But men are routinely forced to give up control, forced to be financially responsible for choices only women are permitted to make, forced to relinquish reproductive choice as the price of intimacy. - The feminists may well be stumped by this argument. After all, they've based their abortion advocacy as a matter of women's reproductive rights. Is it logical to claim that women have reproductive rights that men lack? Yes, a woman has to carry an unplanned pregnancy for nine months and give birth. But Mr. Dubay, and many other men, are saddled with 18 years of child support. That's a pretty substantial inhibition of one's "reproductive freedom." Imagine that John and Jane learn that she is pregnant. She has full latitude in the decision-making. She can decide, over his objections, to abort the child or to raise it alone (he'll be lucky to get generous visitation), or to place the child for adoption (in which case he can object, but only if he wants to raise the baby himself). The National Center for Men could argue that since a man cannot oblige a woman to carry his child to term, neither should she be able to demand 18 years of child support from him. (The NCM has other complaints, too, and it's amusing to see the tables turned. They whine, for example, that men tend to die an average of eight years earlier than women, and that the overwhelming majority of the homeless are men. True. Is it the fault of the matriarchy?) But the gravamen of the men's complaint is unwanted fatherhood. These poor fellows who have sex with women they do not want to marry or have children with are persecuted in this Brave New World we've created. When the only frame of reference is a competition of rights, both sexes strive to outdo one another in selfishness. The point (and it is not one the feminists will find in their quiver) is that sexuality requires responsibility -- and that doesn't just mean using birth control. It means that if you engage in sex you have an automatic obligation to any child that may result. Pro-choice women have been vociferously rejecting this responsibility for decades. It should come as no surprise that men are inclined to do the same. Roe v. Wade and the sexual carnival we've encouraged in this country ever since have planted the idea that men and women have some sort of constitutional right to enjoy sex without consequences. Mr. Dubay and all of those similarly situated (including women who use abortion as emergency contraception) should look into the faces of their sons and daughters and explain that it's nothing personal. |
#23
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The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)
"Tiffany" wrote in message
news:Q4GQf.704$%e1.273@trnddc05... It is stated in this case that the man was told the women he was banging couldn't get pregnant. So he made a choice to have sex with someone he couldn't get knocked up. A pretty good choice, to bad it back fired. So if you make a choice to drive a car that you were told was safe and later on it turned out it had a manufacturing defect and you get seriously injured as a result of this defect, is that backfiring as well? |
#24
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The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)
"John Smith" wrote in message news:ySHQf.8347$z82.5212@fed1read07... "Tiffany" wrote in message news:Q4GQf.704$%e1.273@trnddc05... It is stated in this case that the man was told the women he was banging couldn't get pregnant. So he made a choice to have sex with someone he couldn't get knocked up. A pretty good choice, to bad it back fired. So if you make a choice to drive a car that you were told was safe and later on it turned out it had a manufacturing defect and you get seriously injured as a result of this defect, is that backfiring as well? If you were driving a car that you were told was safe and it turned out that it had a manufacturing defect and you were seriously injured, you wouldn't have to pay the manufacturer 20%+ of your income for 2 decades! |
#25
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The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)
"Casey" wrote in message news:wGEQf.53077$Dh.45044@dukeread04... R said I think we're missing the point of this. What is being asked of the court is a man who had no interest in fathering and parenting a child was duped by a woman who is forcing this man into parenting a child via child support. The woman named in the suit had a choice; She could have aborted the pregnancy, put the child up for adoption, or in this case, kept the baby. The man however, had no choice. He was ordered by the court to parent the child via child support. This, according to the suit, is unconstitutional. I agree with this argument. The other thoughts or opinions that have been discussed so far here are irrelevant. If the woman has a choice, so should the man Seems to me that the man made a choice as well - women don't generally become pregnant all by themselves. Casey Casey's comment above is either deliberately disingenuous or just plain obtuse. I'll be charitable and assume it's obtuse. So I'll try to explain the situation in simple terms. Yes, the man made a choice, and yes, women don't become pregnant all by themselves. However, the point here is that in the U.S. at the present time there is the most obvious and unjustifiable disparity in the way the two sexes are treated in this context. Both sexes have preconception choice. However, when it comes to POST-conception choice, there is grotesque bias against men. For years, legislators and judges have bent over backwards to find more and more post-conception choices for women. There's abortion. There's the unilateral ability to have the child adopted. And now more and more states are legislating to give women the ability to drop off newborns at places like hospitals and fire stations, no questions asked. Meantime, the post-conception choices available to men are being reduced -- most notably through the law interfering with the choice Mother Nature gave men, that of walking away from unwanted pregnancies. |
#26
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The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)
"teachrmama" wrote in message
... "John Smith" wrote in message news:ySHQf.8347$z82.5212@fed1read07... "Tiffany" wrote in message news:Q4GQf.704$%e1.273@trnddc05... It is stated in this case that the man was told the women he was banging couldn't get pregnant. So he made a choice to have sex with someone he couldn't get knocked up. A pretty good choice, to bad it back fired. So if you make a choice to drive a car that you were told was safe and later on it turned out it had a manufacturing defect and you get seriously injured as a result of this defect, is that backfiring as well? If you were driving a car that you were told was safe and it turned out that it had a manufacturing defect and you were seriously injured, you wouldn't have to pay the manufacturer 20%+ of your income for 2 decades! OK, I am not sure if you are agreeing with I said or disagreeing. Do you think it is right for a woman to deceive a man into having a child with him and then making him responsible for 20 years for child support. |
#27
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The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)
"John Smith" wrote in message news:lwOQf.8381$z82.5563@fed1read07... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message news:ySHQf.8347$z82.5212@fed1read07... "Tiffany" wrote in message news:Q4GQf.704$%e1.273@trnddc05... It is stated in this case that the man was told the women he was banging couldn't get pregnant. So he made a choice to have sex with someone he couldn't get knocked up. A pretty good choice, to bad it back fired. So if you make a choice to drive a car that you were told was safe and later on it turned out it had a manufacturing defect and you get seriously injured as a result of this defect, is that backfiring as well? If you were driving a car that you were told was safe and it turned out that it had a manufacturing defect and you were seriously injured, you wouldn't have to pay the manufacturer 20%+ of your income for 2 decades! OK, I am not sure if you are agreeing with I said or disagreeing. Do you think it is right for a woman to deceive a man into having a child with him and then making him responsible for 20 years for child support. Absolutely not!! |
#28
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The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)
Bill in Co. wrote: Joy wrote: "DB" wrote in message y.net... "tonita" wrote in consequences. Don't have sex with someone you wouldn't want to become a parent with. Ever hear of Beer? If only we could all live in a perfect world and be as smart as you! So is it right to sentence a man to death if is can't pay the extortionate CS rates? Responsible people don't drink so much beer that they have irresponsible sex. Responsible people don't do (many) irresponsible things, but alas, The Greatest Generation is nearly all dead now. Oh, blow it out your pompous ass. Pray tell, which was this Greatest Generation? Give me dates. - Ron ^*^ |
#29
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The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)
Werebat wrote:
Bill in Co. wrote: Joy wrote: "DB" wrote in message . net... "tonita" wrote in consequences. Don't have sex with someone you wouldn't want to become a parent with. Ever hear of Beer? If only we could all live in a perfect world and be as smart as you! So is it right to sentence a man to death if is can't pay the extortionate CS rates? Responsible people don't drink so much beer that they have irresponsible sex. Responsible people don't do (many) irresponsible things, but alas, The Greatest Generation is nearly all dead now. Oh, blow it out your pompous ass. Pray tell, which was this Greatest Generation? Give me dates. - Ron ^*^ I guess you're still a bit too young to know, if you have to ask that. Well, perhaps Tom Brokaw can enlighten you in that regard, since he used the term a fair amount during his "tenure". But then again, perhaps not...... I'll leave the light on for ya, but I won't wait up. |
#30
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The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)
"Bill in Co." wrote in message nk.net... Werebat wrote: Bill in Co. wrote: Joy wrote: "DB" wrote in message . net... "tonita" wrote in consequences. Don't have sex with someone you wouldn't want to become a parent with. Ever hear of Beer? If only we could all live in a perfect world and be as smart as you! So is it right to sentence a man to death if is can't pay the extortionate CS rates? Responsible people don't drink so much beer that they have irresponsible sex. Responsible people don't do (many) irresponsible things, but alas, The Greatest Generation is nearly all dead now. Oh, blow it out your pompous ass. Pray tell, which was this Greatest Generation? Give me dates. - Ron ^*^ I guess you're still a bit too young to know, if you have to ask that. Well, perhaps Tom Brokaw can enlighten you in that regard, since he used the term a fair amount during his "tenure". But then again, perhaps not...... I'll leave the light on for ya, but I won't wait up. Being nearly 60, I am unfamiliar with the term. The fact that you appear to get your information from one of the approved newtworks speaks volumes. Phil #3 |
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