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Hines v Minnesota Social Services



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 23rd 04, 04:13 PM
Fern5827
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Hines v Minnesota Social Services

The jokers at CPS in MN took a sick child away from sterling,educated, alert
and informed parents.

Not once, but TWICE. Or at least they attempted to.

Subject: Many families suffer frm unjustified CPS interventions
From: (Fern5827)
Date: 10/22/2004 11:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Court case Hines v Minnesota

Family of airline pilot Wally Hines assisted by the Rutherford Institute. DPSS
in MN just would not listen to family.

Stable, middle-class Christian family. Note that the child suffered a
fracture while incarcerated in foster care, too.


In Defense of Parents Rights
Hines v. Dakota County Social Services


On July 10, 1998, Wyatt was born to Wally and Debby Hines. The family had
settled in a suburb of St. Paul, Minnesota, and joined the Bible Baptist
Church, where Wally played the trumpet in the praise band. Their lives appeared
to be truly blessed until Debby took Wyatt to a pediatrician because he had
been crying a lot, especially when his leg was touched. X-rays revealed a
fracture in Wyatt’s leg. Additional x-rays revealed six rib fractures, with
some being so old they took place in utero, according to experts. One of the
doctors who examined Wyatt explained that he exhibited symptoms of a rare
disease known as osteogenesis imperfecta (O.I.), also known as Brittle Bone
Disease.



However, because of Wyatt’s injuries, charges of child abuse were filed
against the Hineses by the Dakota County Social Services (DCSS). Wyatt was
taken from his parents and placed in foster care. The DCSS would not allow
Debby to furnish the foster parents with information about Brittle Bone
Disease, and Wyatt suffered another fracture while in foster care. Finally,
after three months and expert testimony, a judge returned Wyatt to his parents,
found that the baby did have O.I. and ruled that he should be treated
accordingly.


The Hineses thought this nightmare was finally over, but in April 1999 Wyatt
re-broke his leg. He was treated for O.I., a cast was put on his leg and he was
sent home. Debby reported the doctor’s visit as she had been instructed to do
by the judge. DCSS then went to the office of Wyatt’s doctor with a local
police detective, spoke to a non-treating physician, and decided again it was
child abuse. The doctor then called the Hineses and told them that the police
detective and the DCSS were on their way to take custody of their baby again.


On April 27, 1999, after receiving that phone call, the Hineses threw some
diapers and a few other necessities in the back of their station wagon,
strapped Wyatt in the car seat, and fled their home in Minesota. Rather than
hand over their son to the DCSS for the second time, the Hineses became
fugitives, on the run from a child welfare system they felt was out of control.


On September 13, 1999, after contacting the Hineses and reviewing the evidence
with regard to Brittle Bone Disease, The Rutherford Institute agreed to help
the Hineses return to Minnesota and receive appropriate medical care for their
son's serious and on-going condition.


"The Rutherford Institute is very interested in cases likes the Hineses' where
the state has gone too far in pursuit of alleged abuse of a child and cannot
seem to acknowledge that it may have made a mistake," stated John W. Whitehead,
president of The Rutherford Institute. "Children do need to be protected; but
where no abuse can be proved, the rights of parents and families must also be
protected."


With The Rutherford Institute’s assistance, Wally and Debby’s battle to
keep their family together gained national attention when ABC News 20/20 aired
a special report on their case. And after intense negotiations between DCSS
officials and Rutherford Institute attorneys, the Hineses were allowed to
return home to Minnesota in January of 2000, nearly a year after fleeing with
their child. Despite the fact that leading medical experts had attributed
Wyatt's recurring instances of broken bones to Brittle Bone Disease and he had
not suffered any further fractures while in their care, the Hineses were still
forced to live under the supervision of a foster family for several months. On
April 1, 2000, they were released to live on their own. However, DCSS continued
to insist that social workers monitor the family and conduct intermittent
visits to their home because, they claimed, the possibility of abuse could
still not be ruled out. Finally, on May 24, 2000, a judge dismissed all abuse
charges against the Hineses. "We are thankful the court at last recognized the
baseless nature of these charges and have given the Hineses back their baby and
their lives," said Institute President John W. Whitehead. "While the nightmare
has finally ended for the Hineses, we must remember that there are many more
families like them who continue to suffer unjustified persecution by
overzealous social services agencies."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------


  #2  
Old November 5th 04, 04:09 AM
Carlson LaVonne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Fern,

No one has argued that CPS is perfect, or that CPS doesn't make
mistakes. More money for CPS to hire more qualified workers and more
money for worker education and training would certainly go a long way to
addressing the problems CPs faces.

Brittle Bone is fairly rare and a tough challenge for CPS workers. When
a child pressents with multiple old and new bone fractutures, any
prudent CPS worker would remove the child.

Parents should take a child into emergency or urgent care when a bone
fracture occurs. Tests can be run to determine if the child has Brittle
Bone.

Universal health care and a well-funded CPS system could go a long way
towards preventing the problems you outline in your email below.

Thank you for voting for both. I'm sure, with your obvious concern for
children and for errors in CPS, you voted for an increase in tax dollars
that could alleviate the problems you mention.

LaVonneFern F

Fern5827 wrote:

The jokers at CPS in MN took a sick child away from sterling,educated, alert
and informed parents.

Not once, but TWICE. Or at least they attempted to.

Subject: Many families suffer frm unjustified CPS interventions
From: (Fern5827)
Date: 10/22/2004 11:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Court case Hines v Minnesota

Family of airline pilot Wally Hines assisted by the Rutherford Institute. DPSS
in MN just would not listen to family.

Stable, middle-class Christian family. Note that the child suffered a
fracture while incarcerated in foster care, too.


In Defense of Parents Rights
Hines v. Dakota County Social Services


On July 10, 1998, Wyatt was born to Wally and Debby Hines. The family had
settled in a suburb of St. Paul, Minnesota, and joined the Bible Baptist
Church, where Wally played the trumpet in the praise band. Their lives appeared
to be truly blessed until Debby took Wyatt to a pediatrician because he had
been crying a lot, especially when his leg was touched. X-rays revealed a
fracture in Wyatt’s leg. Additional x-rays revealed six rib fractures, with
some being so old they took place in utero, according to experts. One of the
doctors who examined Wyatt explained that he exhibited symptoms of a rare
disease known as osteogenesis imperfecta (O.I.), also known as Brittle Bone
Disease.



However, because of Wyatt’s injuries, charges of child abuse were filed
against the Hineses by the Dakota County Social Services (DCSS). Wyatt was
taken from his parents and placed in foster care. The DCSS would not allow
Debby to furnish the foster parents with information about Brittle Bone
Disease, and Wyatt suffered another fracture while in foster care. Finally,
after three months and expert testimony, a judge returned Wyatt to his parents,
found that the baby did have O.I. and ruled that he should be treated
accordingly.


The Hineses thought this nightmare was finally over, but in April 1999 Wyatt
re-broke his leg. He was treated for O.I., a cast was put on his leg and he was
sent home. Debby reported the doctor’s visit as she had been instructed to do
by the judge. DCSS then went to the office of Wyatt’s doctor with a local
police detective, spoke to a non-treating physician, and decided again it was
child abuse. The doctor then called the Hineses and told them that the police
detective and the DCSS were on their way to take custody of their baby again.


On April 27, 1999, after receiving that phone call, the Hineses threw some
diapers and a few other necessities in the back of their station wagon,
strapped Wyatt in the car seat, and fled their home in Minesota. Rather than
hand over their son to the DCSS for the second time, the Hineses became
fugitives, on the run from a child welfare system they felt was out of control.


On September 13, 1999, after contacting the Hineses and reviewing the evidence
with regard to Brittle Bone Disease, The Rutherford Institute agreed to help
the Hineses return to Minnesota and receive appropriate medical care for their
son's serious and on-going condition.


"The Rutherford Institute is very interested in cases likes the Hineses' where
the state has gone too far in pursuit of alleged abuse of a child and cannot
seem to acknowledge that it may have made a mistake," stated John W. Whitehead,
president of The Rutherford Institute. "Children do need to be protected; but
where no abuse can be proved, the rights of parents and families must also be
protected."


With The Rutherford Institute’s assistance, Wally and Debby’s battle to
keep their family together gained national attention when ABC News 20/20 aired
a special report on their case. And after intense negotiations between DCSS
officials and Rutherford Institute attorneys, the Hineses were allowed to
return home to Minnesota in January of 2000, nearly a year after fleeing with
their child. Despite the fact that leading medical experts had attributed
Wyatt's recurring instances of broken bones to Brittle Bone Disease and he had
not suffered any further fractures while in their care, the Hineses were still
forced to live under the supervision of a foster family for several months. On
April 1, 2000, they were released to live on their own. However, DCSS continued
to insist that social workers monitor the family and conduct intermittent
visits to their home because, they claimed, the possibility of abuse could
still not be ruled out. Finally, on May 24, 2000, a judge dismissed all abuse
charges against the Hineses. "We are thankful the court at last recognized the
baseless nature of these charges and have given the Hineses back their baby and
their lives," said Institute President John W. Whitehead. "While the nightmare
has finally ended for the Hineses, we must remember that there are many more
families like them who continue to suffer unjustified persecution by
overzealous social services agencies."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------



  #3  
Old November 6th 04, 05:32 PM
Fern5827
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lavonne no parent should be deprived of their infant based on the junk science
spewed by CPS.

How would you like your babies taken from you, based on conjecture?

I assume you are knowledgeable about attachement disorders and the bond between
infants and their parents.

You purport to have taught a class in ECD.

Guess to you as a foster incarcerator, the state is always right.

After all, your foster child did NOT have any relatives or family with whom she
could have been placed.

Lavonne denies the essential bond between parent and child:



Subject: Hines v Minnesota Social Services
From: Carlson LaVonne
Date: 11/4/2004 10:09 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Fern,

No one has argued that CPS is perfect, or that CPS doesn't make
mistakes. More money for CPS to hire more qualified workers and more
money for worker education and training would certainly go a long way to
addressing the problems CPs faces.

Brittle Bone is fairly rare and a tough challenge for CPS workers. When
a child pressents with multiple old and new bone fractutures, any
prudent CPS worker would remove the child.

Parents should take a child into emergency or urgent care when a bone
fracture occurs. Tests can be run to determine if the child has Brittle
Bone.

Universal health care and a well-funded CPS system could go a long way
towards preventing the problems you outline in your email below.

Thank you for voting for both. I'm sure, with your obvious concern for
children and for errors in CPS, you voted for an increase in tax dollars
that could alleviate the problems you mention.

LaVonneFern F

Fern5827 wrote:

The jokers at CPS in MN took a sick child away from sterling,educated,

alert
and informed parents.

Not once, but TWICE. Or at least they attempted to.

Subject: Many families suffer frm unjustified CPS interventions
From:
(Fern5827)
Date: 10/22/2004 11:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Court case Hines v Minnesota

Family of airline pilot Wally Hines assisted by the Rutherford Institute.

DPSS
in MN just would not listen to family.

Stable, middle-class Christian family. Note that the child suffered a
fracture while incarcerated in foster care, too.


In Defense of Parents Rights
Hines v. Dakota County Social Services


On July 10, 1998, Wyatt was born to Wally and Debby Hines. The family had
settled in a suburb of St. Paul, Minnesota, and joined the Bible Baptist
Church, where Wally played the trumpet in the praise band. Their lives

appeared
to be truly blessed until Debby took Wyatt to a pediatrician because he had
been crying a lot, especially when his leg was touched. X-rays revealed a
fracture in Wyatt’s leg. Additional x-rays revealed six rib fractures,

with
some being so old they took place in utero, according to experts. One of

the
doctors who examined Wyatt explained that he exhibited symptoms of a rare
disease known as osteogenesis imperfecta (O.I.), also known as Brittle Bone
Disease.



However, because of Wyatt’s injuries, charges of child abuse were filed
against the Hineses by the Dakota County Social Services (DCSS). Wyatt was
taken from his parents and placed in foster care. The DCSS would not allow
Debby to furnish the foster parents with information about Brittle Bone
Disease, and Wyatt suffered another fracture while in foster care. Finally,
after three months and expert testimony, a judge returned Wyatt to his

parents,
found that the baby did have O.I. and ruled that he should be treated
accordingly.


The Hineses thought this nightmare was finally over, but in April 1999

Wyatt
re-broke his leg. He was treated for O.I., a cast was put on his leg and he

was
sent home. Debby reported the doctor’s visit as she had been instructed to

do
by the judge. DCSS then went to the office of Wyatt’s doctor with a local
police detective, spoke to a non-treating physician, and decided again it

was
child abuse. The doctor then called the Hineses and told them that the

police
detective and the DCSS were on their way to take custody of their baby

again.


On April 27, 1999, after receiving that phone call, the Hineses threw some
diapers and a few other necessities in the back of their station wagon,
strapped Wyatt in the car seat, and fled their home in Minesota. Rather

than
hand over their son to the DCSS for the second time, the Hineses became
fugitives, on the run from a child welfare system they felt was out of

control.


On September 13, 1999, after contacting the Hineses and reviewing the

evidence
with regard to Brittle Bone Disease, The Rutherford Institute agreed to

help
the Hineses return to Minnesota and receive appropriate medical care for

their
son's serious and on-going condition.


"The Rutherford Institute is very interested in cases likes the Hineses'

where
the state has gone too far in pursuit of alleged abuse of a child and

cannot
seem to acknowledge that it may have made a mistake," stated John W.

Whitehead,
president of The Rutherford Institute. "Children do need to be protected;

but
where no abuse can be proved, the rights of parents and families must also

be
protected."


With The Rutherford Institute’s assistance, Wally and Debby’s battle to
keep their family together gained national attention when ABC News 20/20

aired
a special report on their case. And after intense negotiations between DCSS
officials and Rutherford Institute attorneys, the Hineses were allowed to
return home to Minnesota in January of 2000, nearly a year after fleeing

with
their child. Despite the fact that leading medical experts had attributed
Wyatt's recurring instances of broken bones to Brittle Bone Disease and he

had
not suffered any further fractures while in their care, the Hineses were

still
forced to live under the supervision of a foster family for several months.

On
April 1, 2000, they were released to live on their own. However, DCSS

continued
to insist that social workers monitor the family and conduct intermittent
visits to their home because, they claimed, the possibility of abuse could
still not be ruled out. Finally, on May 24, 2000, a judge dismissed all

abuse
charges against the Hineses. "We are thankful the court at last recognized

the
baseless nature of these charges and have given the Hineses back their baby

and
their lives," said Institute President John W. Whitehead. "While the

nightmare
has finally ended for the Hineses, we must remember that there are many

more
families like them who continue to suffer unjustified persecution by
overzealous social services agencies."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------











  #4  
Old November 6th 04, 09:45 PM
Carlson LaVonne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Fern5827 wrote:

Lavonne no parent should be deprived of their infant based on the junk science
spewed by CPS.


This is true, if things were as black and white as you make them out to
be. Everything isn't as black and white as you assume (when it suits
your personal agenda). Brittle Bone is not junk science. Nor is
physical abuse that results is bone fractures. Without fairly expensive
medical tests, it is not that easy to distinguish between the two

How would you like your babies taken from you, based on conjecture?


I wouldn't like my babies taken from me, based on conjecture. If I had
been an abusive parent I suspect I wouldn't have liked my babies taken
from me either, because very few parents admit to blatant physical
abuse. However, I would submit to every investigation necessary, for
there are children who are abused and killed by supposedly loving
parents, and I would understand this procedure is in the best interest
of children.

I assume you are knowledgeable about attachement disorders and the bond between
infants and their parents.


Yes, I am extremely knowledgeable about attachment disorders. The rest
of your statement is in error, which leads me to believe you have
minimal understanding of either attachment or bonding. When discussing
attachment theory it is important to understand the process and the
terminology.

The word "attachment" refers to the relationship that goes from child to
parent or caregiver. Bonding refers to the relationship that goes from
the parent or caregiver to the infant. You are in error when you refer
to attachment as a "bond between infants and their parents."

There are many kinds of attachment, and not all are positive. Hence
ther term, attachment disorders. Secure attachment occurs when parents
are responsive to a child's signals and a child's cues. It is evident
during infancy.

A securely attached infant does not loose that attachment by a brief
separation. Nor does a family that has securely bonded with their child.

Attachment disorders present strongly when a child has not attached due
to parental abuse or neglect. Please understand what you are saying
before you post for all the world.

You purport to have taught a class in ECD.


I don't know what "ECD" is. I teach courses in child development
(CPsy), special education (EPsy), and early childhood education (CI). I
supervise student teachers and present at workshops in these topics.

Guess to you as a foster incarcerator, the state is always right.


I don't know what a "foster incarcerator" is nor why you would apply
that term to me. I certainly don't think the state is always right, and
if you had possessed the integrity to include my post which seems to be
the purpose of this response, you would have known this.

After all, your foster child did NOT have any relatives or family with whom she
could have been placed.


Where do you get this stuff, Fern? If you are the original Fern, this
has been asked an answered years ago. If you aren't the orinal Fern,
you just proved it (grin)!

Lavonne denies the essential bond between parent and child:


I explained the difference between attachment and bonding. Now I
suggest you become informed before presenting more of what you did in
this post.

LaVonne


  #5  
Old November 7th 04, 02:26 PM
Fern5827
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Apparently Lavonne takes no note of the FACTS in the Hines case which are that
Mr and Ms Hines had their BELOVED SON, suffer a second fracture while MN
incarcerated the infant in Foster Care.

As usual, she spews propaganda, which anyone can parrot.

Lavonne didactically lectured: ( We can all do this, L.)


Subject: Hines v Minnesota Social Services
From: Carlson LaVonne
Date: 11/6/2004 3:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:



Fern5827 wrote:

Lavonne no parent should be deprived of their infant based on the junk

science
spewed by CPS.


This is true, if things were as black and white as you make them out to
be. Everything isn't as black and white as you assume (when it suits
your personal agenda). Brittle Bone is not junk science. Nor is
physical abuse that results is bone fractures. Without fairly expensive
medical tests, it is not that easy to distinguish between the two

How would you like your babies taken from you, based on conjecture?


I wouldn't like my babies taken from me, based on conjecture. If I had
been an abusive parent I suspect I wouldn't have liked my babies taken
from me either, because very few parents admit to blatant physical
abuse. However, I would submit to every investigation necessary, for
there are children who are abused and killed by supposedly loving
parents, and I would understand this procedure is in the best interest
of children.

I assume you are knowledgeable about attachement disorders and the bond

between
infants and their parents.


Yes, I am extremely knowledgeable about attachment disorders. The rest
of your statement is in error, which leads me to believe you have
minimal understanding of either attachment or bonding. When discussing
attachment theory it is important to understand the process and the
terminology.

The word "attachment" refers to the relationship that goes from child to
parent or caregiver. Bonding refers to the relationship that goes from
the parent or caregiver to the infant. You are in error when you refer
to attachment as a "bond between infants and their parents."

There are many kinds of attachment, and not all are positive. Hence
ther term, attachment disorders. Secure attachment occurs when parents
are responsive to a child's signals and a child's cues. It is evident
during infancy.

A securely attached infant does not loose that attachment by a brief
separation. Nor does a family that has securely bonded with their child.

Attachment disorders present strongly when a child has not attached due
to parental abuse or neglect. Please understand what you are saying
before you post for all the world.

You purport to have taught a class in ECD.


I don't know what "ECD" is. I teach courses in child development
(CPsy), special education (EPsy), and early childhood education (CI). I
supervise student teachers and present at workshops in these topics.

Guess to you as a foster incarcerator, the state is always right.


I don't know what a "foster incarcerator" is nor why you would apply
that term to me. I certainly don't think the state is always right, and
if you had possessed the integrity to include my post which seems to be
the purpose of this response, you would have known this.

After all, your foster child did NOT have any relatives or family with whom

she
could have been placed.


Where do you get this stuff, Fern? If you are the original Fern, this
has been asked an answered years ago. If you aren't the orinal Fern,
you just proved it (grin)!

Lavonne denies the essential bond between parent and child:


I explained the difference between attachment and bonding. Now I
suggest you become informed before presenting more of what you did in
this post.

LaVonne










  #6  
Old November 9th 04, 02:08 AM
Carlson LaVonne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Fern,

I answered every question in your post which you finally had the decency
to include in your response.

Would you care to respond to my answers?

And while you are responding, how about addressing the differences
between attachment and bonding, and demonstrating your understanding of
attachment theory and attachment disorders, including insecure
attachments? And how about addressing your ridiculous public
declaration that I was "adjunct" and needed to earn foster care money
because I only earned "1500?" And how about addressing the need for
health care for children, the need for more money spent on public
schools, and the need for a bill that would fully fund special
education? Along with that, why not sponsor a bill that would increase
CPS funding? An increase in CPS funding would allow CPS to hire more
qualified workers, decrease workers case load, and likely result in
fewer errors?

LaVonne

Fern5827 wrote:

Apparently Lavonne takes no note of the FACTS in the Hines case which are that
Mr and Ms Hines had their BELOVED SON, suffer a second fracture while MN
incarcerated the infant in Foster Care.

As usual, she spews propaganda, which anyone can parrot.

Lavonne didactically lectured: ( We can all do this, L.)



Subject: Hines v Minnesota Social Services
From: Carlson LaVonne
Date: 11/6/2004 3:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:



Fern5827 wrote:


Lavonne no parent should be deprived of their infant based on the junk


science

spewed by CPS.


This is true, if things were as black and white as you make them out to
be. Everything isn't as black and white as you assume (when it suits
your personal agenda). Brittle Bone is not junk science. Nor is
physical abuse that results is bone fractures. Without fairly expensive
medical tests, it is not that easy to distinguish between the two

How would you like your babies taken from you, based on conjecture?


I wouldn't like my babies taken from me, based on conjecture. If I had
been an abusive parent I suspect I wouldn't have liked my babies taken


from me either, because very few parents admit to blatant physical


abuse. However, I would submit to every investigation necessary, for
there are children who are abused and killed by supposedly loving
parents, and I would understand this procedure is in the best interest
of children.

I assume you are knowledgeable about attachement disorders and the bond


between

infants and their parents.


Yes, I am extremely knowledgeable about attachment disorders. The rest
of your statement is in error, which leads me to believe you have
minimal understanding of either attachment or bonding. When discussing
attachment theory it is important to understand the process and the
terminology.

The word "attachment" refers to the relationship that goes from child to
parent or caregiver. Bonding refers to the relationship that goes from
the parent or caregiver to the infant. You are in error when you refer
to attachment as a "bond between infants and their parents."

There are many kinds of attachment, and not all are positive. Hence
ther term, attachment disorders. Secure attachment occurs when parents
are responsive to a child's signals and a child's cues. It is evident
during infancy.

A securely attached infant does not loose that attachment by a brief
separation. Nor does a family that has securely bonded with their child.

Attachment disorders present strongly when a child has not attached due
to parental abuse or neglect. Please understand what you are saying
before you post for all the world.

You purport to have taught a class in ECD.


I don't know what "ECD" is. I teach courses in child development
(CPsy), special education (EPsy), and early childhood education (CI). I
supervise student teachers and present at workshops in these topics.

Guess to you as a foster incarcerator, the state is always right.


I don't know what a "foster incarcerator" is nor why you would apply
that term to me. I certainly don't think the state is always right, and
if you had possessed the integrity to include my post which seems to be
the purpose of this response, you would have known this.

After all, your foster child did NOT have any relatives or family with whom


she

could have been placed.


Where do you get this stuff, Fern? If you are the original Fern, this
has been asked an answered years ago. If you aren't the orinal Fern,
you just proved it (grin)!

Lavonne denies the essential bond between parent and child:


I explained the difference between attachment and bonding. Now I
suggest you become informed before presenting more of what you did in
this post.

LaVonne












 




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