Nearly all U.S. parents yell at their kids: survey

From the "Ah, jeez, you GOTTA be kiddin'" file, for those who aren't yet
convinced that if those like Murray Straus and his coauthors were in
charge of things, the village's kids would be total mushbrains... (Note
the Newspeak: Yelling is now "psychological aggression"
.....bwahahahaha!)

Nearly all U.S. parents yell at their kids: survey
Last Updated: 2003-12-18 10:30:57 -0400 (Reuters Health)

By Amy Norton

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Nearly all U.S. parents yell, threaten or
use other forms of so-called psychological aggression to discipline
their children, the results of a new study suggests.

Researchers say it's time to shift the widespread cultural acceptance of
these methods.

The study, which looked at a nationally representative sample of 991
parents, found that 98 percent had used some form of psychological
aggression, such as yelling, threats of spanking, and name-calling, to
discipline their children by the time they were five years old.

Parents differed in how often they used these forms of discipline, and
in the severity of their methods. Name calling, cursing, and threatening
to kick children out of the house were considered more severe than
yelling and threats of spanking.

But the study's lead author questioned whether yelling and similar
reactions from parents are ever justified.

"One big question is, is it necessary, and I believe it is not," said
Dr. Murray A. Straus of the Family Research Laboratory at the University
of New Hampshire in Durham.

In an interview with Reuters Health, he noted that while chronic and
severe verbal abuse is known to psychologically harm children, there is
a lack of research into how occasional yelling and other types of
parental aggression affect kids.

According to Straus, it's likely that the effects depend on a number of
factors, including the child's sensitivity and the context. For example,
yelling about a specific action a child has taken, as opposed to
demeaning him or her with name-calling.

But, he said, it's best not to be aggressive at all since there are
alternatives, including discussing the problem. Consistency in
discipline, rather than harshness, is what gets children's attention,
according to Straus.

"Consistency and love are overwhelmingly important," he said.

In the study, reported in the Journal of Marriage and Family, 90 percent
of parents said they had been psychologically aggressive toward a child
age 2 or younger.

Overall, three quarters had "shouted, yelled or screamed" at their
children in the past year, more than half had threatened a spanking, and
one quarter had "sworn or cursed" at their children. Parents were
aggressive toward their kids an average of 22 times a year, Straus and
colleague Carolyn J. Field found.

One third of parents reported using severe psychological aggression in
the past year, such as calling their children "lazy" or "dumb," swearing
at them, or threatening to send them away. While relatively few young
children faced such discipline, older kids and teenagers commonly did.

Straus said he thinks society will eventually shift away from viewing
yelling and similar reactions as acceptable ways to treat kids. If
parents change how they manage children's behavior, he added, that could
translate to children's relationships later in life--perhaps lessening
aggression between spouses and partners.

SOURCE: Journal of Marriage and Family, November 2003.

======================================

JG ....who admits to *yelling* at her then-3-year-old daughter, "WHAT
the H*LL are you DOING?!?" as she flushed a Dior scarf down the toilet.
(Believe it or not, we've both recovered from the trauma. g)

"JG" wrote
JG ....who admits to *yelling* at her then-3-year-old daughter, "WHAT
the H*LL are you DOING?!?" as she flushed a Dior scarf down the toilet.
(Believe it or not, we've both recovered from the trauma. g)

Next, the peds will come out with specific recommendations against
yelling at kids, and Sweden will pass a law against it.

"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
t...

Next, the peds will come out with specific recommendations against
yelling at kids, and Sweden will pass a law against it.

LOL! I see there are already some small (though somewhat expensive)
hand-held decibel meters on the market (see, for example,
http://www.decibel-meter.com/shop.asp). If someone could get the price
down, they might be able to make a killing if such laws ARE passed.
.....hmmmm.....

The idea that occasional yelling (or threatening punishment) constitutes
"psychological aggression" is simply screwy. I'd like to see what
Straus would do when, while out walking with a young niece or nephew (I
somehow doubt--and rather hope!--he doesn't have kids of his own), the
child darts out into a busy street. Would he calmly request, "Sophie,
let's not do that. Come sit down on the curb and we'll discuss this"?
yeah....uh huh...right...

"JG" wrote
The idea that occasional yelling (or threatening punishment) constitutes
"psychological aggression" is simply screwy. I'd like to see what

First they want to ban spanking. Then ban threats to spank. What's
next -- banning threats to yell at the kids? Banning threats to send
the kid to bed right after dinner? There seems to be no end to the
goofiness of some of these people.

Straus would do when, while out walking with a young niece or nephew (I
somehow doubt--and rather hope!--he doesn't have kids of his own), the
child darts out into a busy street. Would he calmly request, "Sophie,
let's not do that. Come sit down on the curb and we'll discuss this"?
yeah....uh huh...right...

I dunno. I just listened to a Montessori school teacher say that I
shouldn't even take the child on errands. I don't know if she expected
me to hire a babysitter while I buy groceries, or what. Somehow it was
against the Montessori philosophy. So there may be people who think
that you should never let your child go near a busy street anyway. Or
maybe they think that the kid should be on a tight leash. I don't know.

"JG" wrote in message ...
From the "Ah, jeez, you GOTTA be kiddin'" file, for those who aren't yet
convinced that if those like Murray Straus and his coauthors were in
charge of things, the village's kids would be total mushbrains... (Note
the Newspeak: Yelling is now "psychological aggression"
....bwahahahaha!)

Nearly all U.S. parents yell at their kids: survey
Last Updated: 2003-12-18 10:30:57 -0400 (Reuters Health)

By Amy Norton

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Nearly all U.S. parents yell, threaten or
use other forms of so-called psychological aggression to discipline
their children, the results of a new study suggests.


It sucks to see a child who is genuinely psychologically abused, but
to label garden-variety voice-raising as "psychological aggression" is
just stupid. Show me a normal kid who has never been yelled at, and
I'll show you a spoiled little **** who makes life miserable for
everyone around him. (Cartman, anyone?)

Yes, any form of discipline can be taken too far, but these authors
have apparently never had to deal with the realities of having
children. "Yelling is psychological aggression"...what next? "A
non-tofu diet amounts to nutritional assault and battery"?

Sheesh...

Mark, MD

"JG" wrote in message ...
From the "Ah, jeez, you GOTTA be kiddin'" file, for those who aren't yet
convinced that if those like Murray Straus and his coauthors were in
charge of things, the village's kids would be total mushbrains... (Note
the Newspeak: Yelling is now "psychological aggression"
....bwahahahaha!)

Nearly all U.S. parents yell at their kids: survey
Last Updated: 2003-12-18 10:30:57 -0400 (Reuters Health)

There was a fairly good essay making fun of this on Salon sometime
ine the last week or so.

I've been known to joke (when talking about the fact that
my parents don't believe in spanking) that they used the
'psychological reign of terror' method of discipline instead.
I'm here to tell you that it works just as well as spanking if
not better, in the hands of a skilled practitioner!

In all seriousness, I think *some* yelling probably is
harmful - if the parent is yelling, "Worthless little ****-
for-brains, why the hell did I ever have you?" or "Leave
that alone or I'll go outside and get the axe and cut your
hands off!" for instance. I think it's important around
little kids to remember that they tend to take things
literally and not to understand that people
say things in anger that they don't really mean.

Saying, "If you get that pancake syrup and pour it on the
cat I'm going to make you REALLY SORRY you did", OTOH, seems
to be, well, child-rearing.

Beth

On 19 Dec 2003 08:16:19 -0800, (Elizabeth Reid)
wrote:

Saying, "If you get that pancake syrup and pour it on the
cat I'm going to make you REALLY SORRY you did", OTOH, seems
to be, well, child-rearing.

I remember reading somewhere that a study showed that
supervisors/bosses who are known to occasionally yell rank slightly
higher as far as respect than ones who never do. Call it being a
push-over or what, but apparently it's not a good thing to be too
nice. Likely applies to parenting as well.

PF

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:41:26 GMT, "Roger Schlafly"
wrote:

"JG" wrote
JG ....who admits to *yelling* at her then-3-year-old daughter, "WHAT
the H*LL are you DOING?!?" as she flushed a Dior scarf down the toilet.
(Believe it or not, we've both recovered from the trauma. g)

Next, the peds will come out with specific recommendations against
yelling at kids, and Sweden will pass a law against it.

OK, I must admit, Roger has never made me laugh out loud before.

PF

"PF Riley" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:41:26 GMT, "Roger Schlafly"
wrote:

"JG" wrote
JG ....who admits to *yelling* at her then-3-year-old daughter, "WHAT
the H*LL are you DOING?!?" as she flushed a Dior scarf down the toilet.
(Believe it or not, we've both recovered from the trauma. g)

Next, the peds will come out with specific recommendations against
yelling at kids, and Sweden will pass a law against it.

OK, I must admit, Roger has never made me laugh out loud before.

He has made me laugh before - but I don't think he meant to.

But yeah, this one was funny.

--
CBI, MD

"Elizabeth Reid" wrote in message
om...

There was a fairly good essay making fun of this on Salon sometime
ine the last week or so.

Why not ? - easy pickings.


In all seriousness, I think *some* yelling probably is
harmful -

And sometimes a slap is appropriate.


if the parent is yelling, "Worthless little ****-
for-brains, why the hell did I ever have you?" or "Leave
that alone or I'll go outside and get the axe and cut your
hands off!" for instance.

Well, yeah, but that would be innappropriate at any volume.


Saying, "If you get that pancake syrup and pour it on the
cat I'm going to make you REALLY SORRY you did", OTOH, seems
to be, well, child-rearing.

Not to mention good animal husbandry.

--
CBI, MD