do people not like holding their babies?

Daye wrote:
On 8 Sep 2003 21:11:36 -0700, (Anonymommmy)
wrote:


What DH and I think is strange is "very old" children, like maybe 5
years old or older, in strollers.


I don't get that either. DD is over 2 and she can walk. She is
usually well behaved, but she has her moments. We generally don't use
a stroller anymore. I feel sorry for those older children in
strollers.

--
Daye
Momma to Jayan

On the contrary. Both me and my son were extremely happy when he had a
nap in his stroller while I went clothes shopping now and again. Happy
Mum, happy boy.

Mary Ann

"Sue" wrote in message
news
Marie wrote in message
Number of children matter because...?

The more children you have, the harder it is to make sure everyone is
happy
and taken care of. If you have more than one child and are out for the
day,
then someone is going to get tired, some will just want to go on and some
will need to go to the bathroom and on and on. It makes an all day trip
extremely easy when you have a wagon or stroller to let them take breaks.
Have you never taken the girls to the zoo? Have you not taken the girls to
an amusement park? Do you take the girls anywhere at all? Let me know how
you managed? Because I must have done something wrong or I didn't get my
supermom powers because I found it hard when I had four children (my
nephew
also) under the age of five to have a place for all of them. I could have
stayed home all the time where I wouldn't need a stroller, but that
certainly was boring.

I have three, and I agree with her.

Then I would have to say that you haven't been in any kind of situation
where you need to contain a child or have one get tired. Your children can
walk long distances without getting tired? Do you not go on all day
outings?

Saying things lke that mean nothing, you know.

Sure it does. Having more than one child opens you up to different
scenarios. It makes you less judgmental because chances are, the very
thing
you scorned when you thought life was grand with one child, turns chaotic
after the second or third child. The dynamics change when you have more
than
one child. You have other people to take in account for. Older children
must
be taken care of just like the little ones. Everyone's needs must be met
the
best way you can. Say your at an amusement park with little ones and
older
children and other adults. The older children are not going to want to sit
and take a break every ten minutes because the little ones get tired. You
don't stop, you put child in the stroller or wagon and go on. Why is that
such a problem? If the child is happy to ride in a stroller and doesn't
fuss, what is the problem with that?
--
Sue
mom to three girls

In my opinion it can't be worse to transport a kid in a car than in a
stroller. In both cases you do it to save time when you need to.

In Denmark the discussions goes as well - the same people who dislike
strollers happily transport their kids in a chair on their bike - a very
common form of transportation in this small country with bike lanes and no
hills.

Tine, Denmark

Marie wrote in message
Number of children matter because...?

The more children you have, the harder it is to make sure everyone is happy
and taken care of. If you have more than one child and are out for the day,
then someone is going to get tired, some will just want to go on and some
will need to go to the bathroom and on and on. It makes an all day trip
extremely easy when you have a wagon or stroller to let them take breaks.
Have you never taken the girls to the zoo? Have you not taken the girls to
an amusement park? Do you take the girls anywhere at all? Let me know how
you managed? Because I must have done something wrong or I didn't get my
supermom powers because I found it hard when I had four children (my nephew
also) under the age of five to have a place for all of them. I could have
stayed home all the time where I wouldn't need a stroller, but that
certainly was boring.

I have three, and I agree with her.

Then I would have to say that you haven't been in any kind of situation
where you need to contain a child or have one get tired. Your children can
walk long distances without getting tired? Do you not go on all day outings?

Saying things lke that mean nothing, you know.

Sure it does. Having more than one child opens you up to different
scenarios. It makes you less judgmental because chances are, the very thing
you scorned when you thought life was grand with one child, turns chaotic
after the second or third child. The dynamics change when you have more than
one child. You have other people to take in account for. Older children must
be taken care of just like the little ones. Everyone's needs must be met the
best way you can. Say your at an amusement park with little ones and older
children and other adults. The older children are not going to want to sit
and take a break every ten minutes because the little ones get tired. You
don't stop, you put child in the stroller or wagon and go on. Why is that
such a problem? If the child is happy to ride in a stroller and doesn't
fuss, what is the problem with that?
--
Sue
mom to three girls

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:37:53 GMT, (Marion
Baumgarten) wrote:
You have three children and you never have had a time when their needs
conflict?

Of course needs conflict, especially when one is a baby. I was
agreeing with the line of thought of just stopping for a rest when one
of the children get tired. When we go out, whether it's for one hour
or all day, if someone is tired we stop, sit and have a drink. It's a
welcome rest for all of us and we get to talk about what we've done
and plan to do next.
Marie

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:08:17 -0700, "Circe" wrote:
So if one kid is tired while you're walking through the parking lot at the
end of a long day, you just sit down and have a rest?

No lol We keep going to the car? I really do not see the problem in
that. The kids know they can rest in the car. Do you honestly think a
stoller is needed just to walk through a parking lot?

If one kid needs to
find the restroom but the other is exhausted, you just sit down and take a
rest while someone pees their pants?

We find the restroom and then rest/use the restroom for a few minutes.
What in that situation would require the use of a stroller?

And what in the world do you do when an
unstrollered 3yo needs a nap?

My kids would never nap if we were on an outing! They are too
interested in what's going on around them. The 6 year old has always
slept in the car, but always woke up if taken out of the carseat. If
it was such a problem to have a missed nap then we'd plan around the
nap, and plan to be at home. This has never been a problem.

Honestly, I know people who never used strollers (my sister is one of them),
but I just can't fathom how they deal with these situations. That's not to
say I think there's anything *wrong* with not using a stroller--I just can't
quite envision how you manage all-day outings without one, even if the
youngest child is 3-5yo who's perfectly capable of walking some of the time.

None of these problems you mentioned require a stroller, ime. I
personally don't see why anyone would think they do.
Marie

"Marie" skrev i en meddelelse
...
No lol We keep going to the car? I really do not see the problem in
that. The kids know they can rest in the car. Do you honestly think a
stoller is needed just to walk through a parking lot?

Oh there came the light for me - the car. When you don't own one the
stroller IS nice.

Tine, Denmark (where cars are very expensive and highly taxed)

Tine Andersen wrote:

"Marie" skrev i en meddelelse
...
No lol We keep going to the car? I really do not see the problem in
that. The kids know they can rest in the car. Do you honestly think a
stoller is needed just to walk through a parking lot?

Oh there came the light for me - the car. When you don't own one the
stroller IS nice.

Tine, Denmark (where cars are very expensive and highly taxed)

I think we public-transportation-users have a very different
perspective on these things. I was miffed when I read the first post,
but then I realized what was going on.

--
Sara, USA (where cars stink and gas is far too cheap)

"Marie" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:08:17 -0700, "Circe" wrote:
So if one kid is tired while you're walking through the parking lot at
the
end of a long day, you just sit down and have a rest?

No lol We keep going to the car? I really do not see the problem in
that. The kids know they can rest in the car. Do you honestly think a
stoller is needed just to walk through a parking lot?

Well, maybe my kids are just significantly more tired after a day-long
outing than yours, but it's usually all I can do to coax the 6yo to keep
walking to the car, and he certainly knows he can rest once he reaches the
car. That doesn't mean he stops complaining about how tired he is at every
step, though g! The 4yo, on the other hand, will simply sit down and stop
walking if she's too tired to go on. So, if we didn't have a stroller, we'd
either have to carry her (and depending on how far one has to go, that could
be quite a task) or sit there in the parking lot with her. Neither seems too
appealing to me, so on the whole, I'd rather have the stroller.

Now, of course, I'm not saying that a stroller is *necessary* to walk
through a parking lot. I certainly do without at the grocery store and
similar places. What *I'm* thinking of, though, is the long walk to the car,
parked in Timbuktu, at the end of a full day at a place like the Zoo,
Legoland, the Fair, etc. Under those circumstances, I just find it *way*
easier to have a stroller to get the younger kids to the car than to force
them to walk. I have seen enough parents literally dragging an exhausted,
screaming/crying toddler through a parking lot to think that failure to plan
ahead for this eventuality isn't exactly a kindness to the child. IOW, *not*
taking a stroller to allow a young child to rest can be just as "cruel" as
restraining a young child in one against his/her will.

If one kid needs to
find the restroom but the other is exhausted, you just sit down and take
a
rest while someone pees their pants?

We find the restroom and then rest/use the restroom for a few minutes.
What in that situation would require the use of a stroller?

Sigh You seemed to be claiming that when one of the children is tired,
you'd just sit down and rest until that child is ready to continue. The
argument seems to be that it is kinder to the child to simply stop and rest
than to have a stroller available for the child to rest in while everyone
else goes about their business. I'm saying I don't see that it *is* kinder
because it's not always *possible* to sit down and rest until the tired
child is ready to continue. One child needing a toilet while the other is
resting or needs a rest is a perfectly good example of a time when a
stroller might well come in quite handy.

And what in the world do you do when an
unstrollered 3yo needs a nap?

My kids would never nap if we were on an outing! They are too
interested in what's going on around them.

Well, I wouldn't dream of taking a 3yo on a day-long outing without the
*option* of taking a nap. Typically, what happens is that the child is
obviously getting tired and needs a nap, so gets into the stroller and falls
asleep while we're walking around. It doesn't *always* happen, mind you, but
it certainly happens often enough for me to plan for it. If the child didn't
have the stroller to get into for a nap, we'd probably have a major meltdown
due to a child lacking sleep. Again, to me, it does not seem kinder or more
loving to leave the stroller at home and effectively require the child to do
without a nap that he/she needs.

Honestly, I know people who never used strollers (my sister is one of
them),
but I just can't fathom how they deal with these situations. That's not
to
say I think there's anything *wrong* with not using a stroller--I just
can't
quite envision how you manage all-day outings without one, even if the
youngest child is 3-5yo who's perfectly capable of walking some of the
time.

None of these problems you mentioned require a stroller, ime. I
personally don't see why anyone would think they do.

Well, I've just explained why *I* have found that a stroller is sometimes
the kinder, gentler option for everyone concerned. My kids have never been
*confined* to a stroller and, in point of fact, bringing them along can be a
pain since it means an adult must always push the stroller(s), even if they
are not occupied during the entire outing. I still find that life seems
better for my little ones when I have a stroller for each of them than when
I don't. YMMV and obviously does, but I do find the notion that stroller use
= less attentive, less loving parenting a bit difficult to swallow.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [18mo] mom)
See us at http://photos.yahoo.com/guavaln

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"No parking passed this sign" -- hotel parking lot sign

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

Circe wrote:

"Marie" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:08:17 -0700, "Circe" wrote:
So if one kid is tired while you're walking through the parking lot at
the
end of a long day, you just sit down and have a rest?

No lol We keep going to the car? I really do not see the problem in
that. The kids know they can rest in the car. Do you honestly think a
stoller is needed just to walk through a parking lot?

I used to walk my daughter to and from kindergarden (not every day) - a
mile each way. Now, she had turned six a month after class started and
had no problem walking. If I walked to pick her up, that's a two mile
walk total. Add a 3 year old and the need to get there when class gets
out. Some sort of device with wheels seems like a good idea. I could get
a dog to pull a sledge I suppose.

Daye wrote in message . ..
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:01:17 -0700, "Circe" wrote:

Ah, but you see, you're starting from the premise that all children are like
your daughter and resist/dislike riding in a stroller. You see it as a cage
because your daughter sees it as one.

No, I see it as a cage because I have always seen it as a cage.

I think it's wise to question one's opinions occasionally, to confirm
that they're based on reason and don't contradict real-world evidence.
Just a suggestion.

Anyway, don't you think it's far more important what the people using
the thing (that is, the children) think? As long as the child in the
stroller is happy to be there, why do you mind? It's funny that this
subthread consists mostly of stroller-users explaining why they use
strollers; I think that's backward. You should be explaining what you
have against them in cases when both the child and the caregiver are
happy with its use.

My DD
just happens to agree with me. My nephew didn't mind the stroller (I
was his nanny). However, when he hit 3, he was never in one. He
didn't need to be there. HIs parents agreed with me.

"Reason not the need". Noone needs to go to the zoo in the first
place. Hey, if someone offered to wheel me around an amusement park or
zoo, I'd be thrilled, as long as I was able to get out when I wanted.

I am not saying that for a child under 1 year old, the stroller is an
evil place. I would even say that for a child under 2, I can see a
stroller as a useful thing. However, with a 3-5 year old, I can't see
why you would use a stroller for a child that big.

OK, but what do you have *against* using it? That's the real question.
Because if you don't have a really good reason to be against it, then
why are you spreading ill will around the world by being judgmental
about their use? Ever hear of "live and let live"?