Vaccine quote of the week by Bernard Rimland, PhD

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
I have read studies on both sides of this issue. It appears to me
(and I
hope I wrong) that you instantly discount any studies or
reports which
indicate that mercury MAY be the cause of autism. Am I wrong? I
hope so.

Read my fingers....there are NO epidemiological studies showing a
link...eight studies on diverse populations all show that there is no
link....keep reading...

Replication of findings is one of the "checks and balances" in
the world
of scientific research. You may recall the cold fusion debacle
several
years ago...or the Korean scientist on cloning whose findings
could not
be reproduced....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume that you had 10
blood tests
of 10 children that had autism in front of you and they all
indicated that
the children had dangerous levels of mercury. Would you discount those
blood tests or assume that autism MAY be caused by mercury?

Like I said, the epidemiological studies refute any possible connection
between mercury and autism. Eight studies, LARGE diverse populations,
all showing the same thing.

Furthermore, how do we know that 10 non-autistic kids don't have equally
high levels of mercury? If you want to use that model, all I need to do
is to bring one kid with the same levels who does not have autism.

I would assume that the autism MAY have been caused by mercury.
Jason

You would assume wrong.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
Good point. It appears to me that you have made up your mind that mercury
plays no role in regard to the cause of autism. Even if you saw data
indicating that every child that had autism also had high levels of
mercury--you still would not be convinced.

Try reading comprehension. What I said is that there is no evidence of
causation. None. It is nothing more than a theory, and that is why Boyd
Haley, et al, were excluded from testifying. All the evidence says
otherwise.

I hope that I am wrong. I hope
that mercury is not the cause of autism.

Since there is no evidence that it is, your hopes have been answered.

I have had lots of vaccines

That is unusual for someone your age, unless you traveled to some really
remote areas of the third world.

and
lots of dental fillings containing mercury. I hope that when the babies of
the world are my age (55 years old) that the levels of mercury and other
heavy metals are much lower than the levels in the bodies of people that
are now 55 years old.

There has been a decades long effort to reduce environmental mercury.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It might be unsual but it does happen. I was attending grade school in one
county and received all of the required vaccinations. Several years later,
I transferred to a school in a different county.

You were in grade school in the late 50's early 60's and the number of
vaccines where what? Look it up.

The vaccine records could
not be found so they required me to get a new series of vaccinations
before I could attend that school. I understand that members of the
military also have to take vaccines. That's one of the reasons that
mercury should not be used in vaccines. One or two vaccines containing
thimerosal don't cause much harm but some people (like me and members of
the military) end up getting lots of vaccines containing thimerosal. Now
you know another reason why I want thimerosal to be banned.

When I was in the military, and being prepared to go to Southeast Asia,
we received several shots, and, no one had an adverse reaction. That is
not one out of 250 in my basic training unit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello,
Good point. In relation to the military, I should have been more clear--I
was referring to the dangers of mercury poisoning--not autism. As you may
know, when people have higher than normal levels of mercury--the symptoms
may not show up for several years or even be blamed on other medical or
psychological problems.

That is assuming that the mercury is retained. It is not.


Some of the symptoms of mercury poisoning a

short term mermory loss
mood swings
anxiety
depression
fits of anger
irritability
indecision
excitability
fatique
headaches

Where did you get this list? In the future, please include the URL of
whatever you are referencing. If you don't there are people, me being
one of them, who will not continue to discuss this with you.

Did any of those 250 people have any of those symptoms of mercury poisoning?

Nope.

In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , "Rich"
wrote:

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:
Jason Johnson wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
I have read studies on both sides of this issue. It appears to
me
(and I
hope I wrong) that you instantly discount any studies or
reports
which
indicate that mercury MAY be the cause of autism. Am I wrong? I
hope so. Read my fingers....there are NO epidemiological
studies showing a link...eight studies on diverse populations all
show that there is no link....keep reading...
Replication of findings is one of the "checks and balances"
in the world of scientific research. You may recall the cold
fusion
debacle several years ago...or the Korean scientist on cloning
whose findings could not be reproduced....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume that you had 10
blood
tests
of 10 children that had autism in front of you and they all
indicated that
the children had dangerous levels of mercury. Would you discount
those
blood tests or assume that autism MAY be caused by mercury?
Like I said, the epidemiological studies refute any possible
connection between mercury and autism. Eight studies, LARGE diverse
populations, all showing the same thing.
Furthermore, how do we know that 10 non-autistic kids don't have
equally high levels of mercury? If you want to use that model, all I
need to do is to bring one kid with the same levels who does not have
autism.
I would assume that the autism MAY have been caused by mercury.
Jason
You would assume wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
Good point. It appears to me that you have made up your mind that
mercury
plays no role in regard to the cause of autism. Even if you saw data
indicating that every child that had autism also had high levels of
mercury--you still would not be convinced. Try reading comprehension.
What I said is that there is no evidence of causation. None. It is
nothing more than a theory, and that is why Boyd Haley, et al, were
excluded from testifying. All the evidence says otherwise.
I hope that I am wrong. I hope
that mercury is not the cause of autism. Since there is no evidence
that it is, your hopes have been answered.
I have had lots of vaccines That is unusual for someone your age,
unless you traveled to some really remote areas of the third world.
and
lots of dental fillings containing mercury. I hope that when the
babies of
the world are my age (55 years old) that the levels of mercury and
other
heavy metals are much lower than the levels in the bodies of people
that
are now 55 years old.
There has been a decades long effort to reduce environmental mercury.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It might be unsual but it does happen. I was attending grade school in
one
county and received all of the required vaccinations. Several years
later,
I transferred to a school in a different county.

You were in grade school in the late 50's early 60's and the number of
vaccines where what? Look it up.

The vaccine records could
not be found so they required me to get a new series of vaccinations
before I could attend that school. I understand that members of the
military also have to take vaccines. That's one of the reasons that
mercury should not be used in vaccines. One or two vaccines containing
thimerosal don't cause much harm but some people (like me and members of
the military) end up getting lots of vaccines containing thimerosal. Now
you know another reason why I want thimerosal to be banned.

When I was in the military, and being prepared to go to Southeast
Asia, we
received several shots, and, no one had an adverse reaction. That is not
one out of 250 in my basic training unit.

In my unit, one big guy passed out (BEFORE he got the first injection). Two
guys got lacerations when they flinched under the needleless
injectors. That
was out of 60 men. No actual adverse reactions that I was ever aware of. If
there were any long-term consequences, they were probably blamed on agent
orange. By the way, we were also run single-file naked through a long shed
where guys with gas masks beat us with pillows full of powdered DDT. No ill
effects from that either. No ukus survived, though.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rich,
It would be better to test them for medical problems 10 years after they
were exposed to all of those things. I recall watching a television show
about 15 years ago. They took a camera crew to Viet Nam. They showed
hundreds of little children that had missing arms and legs. A doctor on
the camera crew tested the blood of those children. The doctor concluded
that the handicaps were caused by exposure to agent orange.

I do not think that anyone in this group doubts the long term damage
done by the Dioxin contaminant in AO.

Those children
were not born until after the war but the food they ate was grown on soil
that was contaminated with agent orange and the water supply (from the
river) had high levels of agent orange. They showed children playing and
swimming in that river. They ate fish from that same river.

The damage is caused by Dioxin. The fact that we have yet to address
this adequately with the Vietnamese is our lasting shame.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
We are in agreement related to this issue. Another shame is the way the
V.A. treated the veterans of Viet Nam and other wars.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Rich" wrote in message
...

"Jan Drew" wrote in message
. net...




Do I have any legitimate reason to
expect you to? No, you are just going to have to take my word about what
happened to me in boot camp. However, if you really give a **** and you
doubt me, you might ask some of your veteran friends if they had similar
experiences.

No problem. Hubby is a veteran.

So, did you ask him if my story is believable?

Yes. Parts of your story is believable.

He also says depends on what you mean by adverse effect?

Some guys got sick the very first day.

Three days after his shots..he was SICK AS A DOG!

He is not a panty waist/wimp. He made himself go anyway.

Your story:

*By the way, we were also run single-file naked through a long shed
where guys with gas masks beat us with pillows full of powdered DDT.*

Hubby's reply:

Is highly questionable


--


--Rich

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , "Rich"
wrote:

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:
Jason Johnson wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
I have read studies on both sides of this issue. It appears to
me
(and I
hope I wrong) that you instantly discount any studies or
reports
which
indicate that mercury MAY be the cause of autism. Am I wrong? I
hope so. Read my fingers....there are NO epidemiological
studies showing a link...eight studies on diverse populations all
show that there is no link....keep reading...
Replication of findings is one of the "checks and balances"
in the world of scientific research. You may recall the cold
fusion
debacle several years ago...or the Korean scientist on cloning
whose findings could not be reproduced....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume that you had 10
blood
tests
of 10 children that had autism in front of you and they all
indicated that
the children had dangerous levels of mercury. Would you discount
those
blood tests or assume that autism MAY be caused by mercury?
Like I said, the epidemiological studies refute any possible
connection between mercury and autism. Eight studies, LARGE diverse
populations, all showing the same thing.
Furthermore, how do we know that 10 non-autistic kids don't have
equally high levels of mercury? If you want to use that model, all I
need to do is to bring one kid with the same levels who does not have
autism.
I would assume that the autism MAY have been caused by mercury.
Jason
You would assume wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
Good point. It appears to me that you have made up your mind that
mercury
plays no role in regard to the cause of autism. Even if you saw data
indicating that every child that had autism also had high levels of
mercury--you still would not be convinced. Try reading comprehension.
What I said is that there is no evidence of causation. None. It is
nothing more than a theory, and that is why Boyd Haley, et al, were
excluded from testifying. All the evidence says otherwise.
I hope that I am wrong. I hope
that mercury is not the cause of autism. Since there is no evidence
that it is, your hopes have been answered.
I have had lots of vaccines That is unusual for someone your age,
unless you traveled to some really remote areas of the third world.
and
lots of dental fillings containing mercury. I hope that when the
babies of
the world are my age (55 years old) that the levels of mercury and
other
heavy metals are much lower than the levels in the bodies of people
that
are now 55 years old.
There has been a decades long effort to reduce environmental mercury.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It might be unsual but it does happen. I was attending grade school in
one
county and received all of the required vaccinations. Several years
later,
I transferred to a school in a different county.

You were in grade school in the late 50's early 60's and the number of
vaccines where what? Look it up.

The vaccine records could
not be found so they required me to get a new series of vaccinations
before I could attend that school. I understand that members of the
military also have to take vaccines. That's one of the reasons that
mercury should not be used in vaccines. One or two vaccines containing
thimerosal don't cause much harm but some people (like me and members of
the military) end up getting lots of vaccines containing thimerosal. Now
you know another reason why I want thimerosal to be banned.

When I was in the military, and being prepared to go to Southeast
Asia, we
received several shots, and, no one had an adverse reaction. That is not
one out of 250 in my basic training unit.

In my unit, one big guy passed out (BEFORE he got the first injection). Two
guys got lacerations when they flinched under the needleless
injectors. That
was out of 60 men. No actual adverse reactions that I was ever aware of. If
there were any long-term consequences, they were probably blamed on agent
orange. By the way, we were also run single-file naked through a long shed
where guys with gas masks beat us with pillows full of powdered DDT. No ill
effects from that either. No ukus survived, though.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rich,
It would be better to test them for medical problems 10 years after they
were exposed to all of those things. I recall watching a television show
about 15 years ago. They took a camera crew to Viet Nam. They showed
hundreds of little children that had missing arms and legs. A doctor on
the camera crew tested the blood of those children. The doctor concluded
that the handicaps were caused by exposure to agent orange.

I do not think that anyone in this group doubts the long term damage
done by the Dioxin contaminant in AO.

Those children
were not born until after the war but the food they ate was grown on soil
that was contaminated with agent orange and the water supply (from the
river) had high levels of agent orange. They showed children playing and
swimming in that river. They ate fish from that same river.

The damage is caused by Dioxin. The fact that we have yet to address
this adequately with the Vietnamese is our lasting shame.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
We are in agreement related to this issue. Another shame is the way the
V.A. treated the veterans of Viet Nam and other wars.

It is not the "VA" but Congress that determines the overall level of
treatment.

WWII and Korean War vets attended college for free and had a living
stipend.

Vietnam Vets did not have that type of coverage. We were given X number
of months of education benefit and if you school charged more, you had
to work. I worked 35 hours a week while an undergrad.

In the mid 1980's when Ronnie Raygun decided to cut back the spending,
especially in Veteran healthcare, which affected all vets.

Our current administration now looks at veterans as fodder for a reverse
draft.

In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , "Rich"
wrote:

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:
Jason Johnson wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
I have read studies on both sides of this issue. It
appears to
me
(and I
hope I wrong) that you instantly discount any studies or
reports
which
indicate that mercury MAY be the cause of autism. Am I
wrong? I
hope so. Read my fingers....there are NO epidemiological
studies showing a link...eight studies on diverse
populations all
show that there is no link....keep reading...
Replication of findings is one of the "checks and
balances"
in the world of scientific research. You may recall the cold
fusion
debacle several years ago...or the Korean scientist on cloning
whose findings could not be reproduced....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume that you had 10
blood
tests
of 10 children that had autism in front of you and they all
indicated that
the children had dangerous levels of mercury. Would you
discount
those
blood tests or assume that autism MAY be caused by mercury?
Like I said, the epidemiological studies refute any possible
connection between mercury and autism. Eight studies, LARGE
diverse
populations, all showing the same thing.
Furthermore, how do we know that 10 non-autistic kids
don't have
equally high levels of mercury? If you want to use that
model, all I
need to do is to bring one kid with the same levels who does
not have
autism.
I would assume that the autism MAY have been caused by
mercury.
Jason
You would assume wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
Good point. It appears to me that you have made up your mind that
mercury
plays no role in regard to the cause of autism. Even if you
saw data
indicating that every child that had autism also had high levels of
mercury--you still would not be convinced. Try reading
comprehension.
What I said is that there is no evidence of causation. None. It is
nothing more than a theory, and that is why Boyd Haley, et al, were
excluded from testifying. All the evidence says otherwise.
I hope that I am wrong. I hope
that mercury is not the cause of autism. Since there is no
evidence
that it is, your hopes have been answered.
I have had lots of vaccines That is unusual for someone your age,
unless you traveled to some really remote areas of the third world.
and
lots of dental fillings containing mercury. I hope that when the
babies of
the world are my age (55 years old) that the levels of mercury and
other
heavy metals are much lower than the levels in the bodies of
people
that
are now 55 years old.
There has been a decades long effort to reduce environmental mercury.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It might be unsual but it does happen. I was attending grade
school in
one
county and received all of the required vaccinations. Several years
later,
I transferred to a school in a different county.

You were in grade school in the late 50's early 60's and the number of
vaccines where what? Look it up.

The vaccine records could
not be found so they required me to get a new series of vaccinations
before I could attend that school. I understand that members of the
military also have to take vaccines. That's one of the reasons that
mercury should not be used in vaccines. One or two vaccines containing
thimerosal don't cause much harm but some people (like me and
members of
the military) end up getting lots of vaccines containing
thimerosal. Now
you know another reason why I want thimerosal to be banned.

When I was in the military, and being prepared to go to Southeast
Asia, we
received several shots, and, no one had an adverse reaction. That
is not
one out of 250 in my basic training unit.

In my unit, one big guy passed out (BEFORE he got the first
injection). Two
guys got lacerations when they flinched under the needleless
injectors. That
was out of 60 men. No actual adverse reactions that I was ever
aware of. If
there were any long-term consequences, they were probably blamed on
agent
orange. By the way, we were also run single-file naked through a
long shed
where guys with gas masks beat us with pillows full of powdered
DDT. No ill
effects from that either. No ukus survived, though.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rich,
It would be better to test them for medical problems 10 years after they
were exposed to all of those things. I recall watching a television show
about 15 years ago. They took a camera crew to Viet Nam. They showed
hundreds of little children that had missing arms and legs. A doctor on
the camera crew tested the blood of those children. The doctor concluded
that the handicaps were caused by exposure to agent orange.

I do not think that anyone in this group doubts the long term damage
done by the Dioxin contaminant in AO.

Those children
were not born until after the war but the food they ate was grown on soil
that was contaminated with agent orange and the water supply (from the
river) had high levels of agent orange. They showed children playing and
swimming in that river. They ate fish from that same river.

The damage is caused by Dioxin. The fact that we have yet to address
this adequately with the Vietnamese is our lasting shame.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
We are in agreement related to this issue. Another shame is the way the
V.A. treated the veterans of Viet Nam and other wars.

It is not the "VA" but Congress that determines the overall level of
treatment.

WWII and Korean War vets attended college for free and had a living
stipend.

Vietnam Vets did not have that type of coverage. We were given X number
of months of education benefit and if you school charged more, you had
to work. I worked 35 hours a week while an undergrad.

In the mid 1980's when Ronnie Raygun decided to cut back the spending,
especially in Veteran healthcare, which affected all vets.

Our current administration now looks at veterans as fodder for a reverse
draft.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
I agree with you. Even Clinton seemed to hate the members of the military.
He closed dozens of military bases and stop funding lots of weapon
systems. Believe it or not, the next war has already started. If you don't
believe me, watch the news for the next two weeks. The missles are now
landing in Israel but it's won't be long before nuclear bombs and chemical
bombs will be going off in America. North Korea is already trying to build
a missle that will make it to America and they already have nuclear bombs.
It reminds me of how WW I and WW II started. Most of the people in America
did not even know that a war was going on until we finally became involved
in those wars. Most people don't know much about history. Iran is trying
to build a nuclear bomb and they already have missles that can carry it to
Israel.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:
Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:
Jason Johnson wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
I have read studies on both sides of this issue. It appears
to me
(and I
hope I wrong) that you instantly discount any studies or
reports which
indicate that mercury MAY be the cause of autism. Am I wrong?
I
hope so. Read my fingers....there are NO
epidemiological studies showing a link...eight studies on
diverse populations all show that there is no link....keep
reading...
Replication of findings is one of the "checks and
balances" in
the world of scientific research. You may recall the cold fusion
debacle
several years ago...or the Korean scientist on cloning whose
findings
could not be reproduced....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume that you had 10
blood tests
of 10 children that had autism in front of you and they all
indicated that
the children had dangerous levels of mercury. Would you discount
those
blood tests or assume that autism MAY be caused by mercury?
Like I said, the epidemiological studies refute any possible
connection between mercury and autism. Eight studies, LARGE diverse
populations, all showing the same thing.
Furthermore, how do we know that 10 non-autistic kids don't
have equally high levels of mercury? If you want to use that model,
all I need to do is to bring one kid with the same levels who does
not have autism.
I would assume that the autism MAY have been caused by
mercury. Jason
You would assume wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
Good point. It appears to me that you have made up your mind that
mercury
plays no role in regard to the cause of autism. Even if you saw
data
indicating that every child that had autism also had high levels of
mercury--you still would not be convinced. Try reading
comprehension. What I said is that there is no evidence of causation.
None. It is nothing more than a theory, and that is why Boyd Haley, et
al, were excluded from testifying. All the evidence says otherwise.
I hope that I am wrong. I hope
that mercury is not the cause of autism. Since there is no
evidence that it is, your hopes have been answered.
I have had lots of vaccines That is unusual for someone
your age, unless you traveled to some really remote areas of the third
world.
and
lots of dental fillings containing mercury. I hope that when the
babies of
the world are my age (55 years old) that the levels of mercury and
other
heavy metals are much lower than the levels in the bodies of people
that
are now 55 years old.
There has been a decades long effort to reduce environmental
mercury.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It might be unsual but it does happen. I was attending grade school
in one
county and received all of the required vaccinations. Several years
later,
I transferred to a school in a different county. You were in grade
school in the late 50's early 60's and the number of vaccines where what?
Look it up.
The vaccine records could
not be found so they required me to get a new series of vaccinations
before I could attend that school. I understand that members of the
military also have to take vaccines. That's one of the reasons that
mercury should not be used in vaccines. One or two vaccines containing
thimerosal don't cause much harm but some people (like me and members
of
the military) end up getting lots of vaccines containing thimerosal.
Now
you know another reason why I want thimerosal to be banned. When I was
in the military, and being prepared to go to Southeast Asia, we received
several shots, and, no one had an adverse reaction. That is not one out
of 250 in my basic training unit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello,
Good point. In relation to the military, I should have been more clear--I
was referring to the dangers of mercury poisoning--not autism. As you may
know, when people have higher than normal levels of mercury--the symptoms
may not show up for several years or even be blamed on other medical or
psychological problems.

That is assuming that the mercury is retained. It is not.

Blatant lie.



Some of the symptoms of mercury poisoning a
short term mermory loss
mood swings
anxiety
depression
fits of anger
irritability
indecision
excitability
fatique
headaches

Where did you get this list? In the future, please include the URL of
whatever you are referencing. If you don't there are people, me being one
of them, who will not continue to discuss this with you.

Double standards again.

Did any of those 250 people have any of those symptoms of mercury
poisoning?

Nope.

When Mark says nope...good chance he is lying.

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , "Rich"
wrote:

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
In article , Mark Probert
wrote:
Jason Johnson wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
I have read studies on both sides of this issue. It
appears to
me
(and I
hope I wrong) that you instantly discount any studies or
reports
which
indicate that mercury MAY be the cause of autism. Am I
wrong? I
hope so. Read my fingers....there are NO epidemiological
studies showing a link...eight studies on diverse
populations all
show that there is no link....keep reading...
Replication of findings is one of the "checks and
balances"
in the world of scientific research. You may recall the cold
fusion
debacle several years ago...or the Korean scientist on cloning
whose findings could not be reproduced....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume that you had 10
blood
tests
of 10 children that had autism in front of you and they all
indicated that
the children had dangerous levels of mercury. Would you
discount
those
blood tests or assume that autism MAY be caused by mercury?
Like I said, the epidemiological studies refute any possible
connection between mercury and autism. Eight studies, LARGE
diverse
populations, all showing the same thing.
Furthermore, how do we know that 10 non-autistic kids
don't have
equally high levels of mercury? If you want to use that
model, all I
need to do is to bring one kid with the same levels who does
not have
autism.
I would assume that the autism MAY have been caused by
mercury.
Jason
You would assume wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark,
Good point. It appears to me that you have made up your mind that
mercury
plays no role in regard to the cause of autism. Even if you
saw data
indicating that every child that had autism also had high levels of
mercury--you still would not be convinced. Try reading
comprehension.
What I said is that there is no evidence of causation. None. It is
nothing more than a theory, and that is why Boyd Haley, et al, were
excluded from testifying. All the evidence says otherwise.
I hope that I am wrong. I hope
that mercury is not the cause of autism. Since there is no
evidence
that it is, your hopes have been answered.
I have had lots of vaccines That is unusual for someone your age,
unless you traveled to some really remote areas of the third world.
and
lots of dental fillings containing mercury. I hope that when the
babies of
the world are my age (55 years old) that the levels of mercury and
other
heavy metals are much lower than the levels in the bodies of
people
that
are now 55 years old.
There has been a decades long effort to reduce environmental mercury.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It might be unsual but it does happen. I was attending grade
school in
one
county and received all of the required vaccinations. Several years
later,
I transferred to a school in a different county.

You were in grade school in the late 50's early 60's and the number of
vaccines where what? Look it up.

The vaccine records could
not be found so they required me to get a new series of vaccinations
before I could attend that school. I understand that members of the
military also have to take vaccines. That's one of the reasons that
mercury should not be used in vaccines. One or two vaccines containing
thimerosal don't cause much harm but some people (like me and
members of
the military) end up getting lots of vaccines containing
thimerosal. Now
you know another reason why I want thimerosal to be banned.

When I was in the military, and being prepared to go to Southeast
Asia, we
received several shots, and, no one had an adverse reaction. That
is not
one out of 250 in my basic training unit.

In my unit, one big guy passed out (BEFORE he got the first
injection). Two
guys got lacerations when they flinched under the needleless
injectors. That
was out of 60 men. No actual adverse reactions that I was ever
aware of. If
there were any long-term consequences, they were probably blamed on
agent
orange. By the way, we were also run single-file naked through a
long shed
where guys with gas masks beat us with pillows full of powdered
DDT. No ill
effects from that either. No ukus survived, though.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rich,
It would be better to test them for medical problems 10 years after they
were exposed to all of those things. I recall watching a television show
about 15 years ago. They took a camera crew to Viet Nam. They showed
hundreds of little children that had missing arms and legs. A doctor on
the camera crew tested the blood of those children. The doctor concluded
that the handicaps were caused by exposure to agent orange.

I do not think that anyone in this group doubts the long term damage
done by the Dioxin contaminant in AO.

Those children
were not born until after the war but the food they ate was grown on soil
that was contaminated with agent orange and the water supply (from the
river) had high levels of agent orange. They showed children playing and
swimming in that river. They ate fish from that same river.

The damage is caused by Dioxin. The fact that we have yet to address
this adequately with the Vietnamese is our lasting shame.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
We are in agreement related to this issue. Another shame is the way the
V.A. treated the veterans of Viet Nam and other wars.

It is not the "VA" but Congress that determines the overall level of
treatment.

WWII and Korean War vets attended college for free and had a living
stipend.

Vietnam Vets did not have that type of coverage. We were given X number
of months of education benefit and if you school charged more, you had
to work. I worked 35 hours a week while an undergrad.

In the mid 1980's when Ronnie Raygun decided to cut back the spending,
especially in Veteran healthcare, which affected all vets.

Our current administration now looks at veterans as fodder for a reverse
draft.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
I agree with you. Even Clinton seemed to hate the members of the military.
He closed dozens of military bases and stop funding lots of weapon
systems.

Incorrect. Closing of bases is not determined by the President, or, for
that matter, Congress. It is an independent commission.

As for cutting back or eliminating weapon systems, what Clinton did end
were cold war systems which we do not need in the modern world. For
example, he supported the development and upgrading of the M1A1 Abrams
main battle tank (neighbors kid drives one in Iraq and swears by it).

He did stop an upgrade to field artillery that many of the Army generals
thought was a waste.

Believe it or not, the next war has already started. If you don't
believe me, watch the news for the next two weeks.

I am well aware of it. I have friends in Israel, some in Haifa, and
others in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. One of their son's has been on the
Lebanese border for two years.

The missles are now
landing in Israel but it's won't be long before nuclear bombs and chemical
bombs will be going off in America.

I doubt it.

North Korea is already trying to build
a missle that will make it to America and they already have nuclear bombs.

Having a bomb that is deliverable is not the same thing as having a
missile that can reach and a bomb that can explode. It is not a 1+1=2
situation.

It reminds me of how WW I and WW II started. Most of the people in America
did not even know that a war was going on until we finally became involved
in those wars. Most people don't know much about history. Iran is trying
to build a nuclear bomb and they already have missles that can carry it to
Israel.

See above.

Mark Probert wrote:

I am well aware of it. I have friends in Israel, some in Haifa, and
others in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. One of their son's has been on the
Lebanese border for two years.

You must be worried sick. Is he in the military? If not, can you get
him to come home? Like NOW?!

The missles are now
landing in Israel but it's won't be long before nuclear bombs and chemical
bombs will be going off in America.

I doubt it.

I agree; I think this will be contained in the Middle East, but it
promises to be nasty, bloody, and protracted.


North Korea is already trying to build
a missle that will make it to America and they already have nuclear bombs.

Having a bomb that is deliverable is not the same thing as having a
missile that can reach and a bomb that can explode. It is not a 1+1=2
situation.

Not to mention the fact that North Korea really has *no* friends, and
China, which is closer and well-equipped with nuclear weapons,
distrusts them even more than we do.

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...


As for cutting back or eliminating weapon systems, what Clinton did end
were cold war systems which we do not need in the modern world. For
example, he supported the development and upgrading of the M1A1 Abrams
main battle tank (neighbors kid drives one in Iraq and swears by it).

He did stop an upgrade to field artillery that many of the Army generals
thought was a waste.


Agreed. As much as the Republicans like to claim that the Clinton government
damaged the military, it was the Clinton military that dominated in
Afghanistan, and marched right into Bagdad. One of the best military things
to come out of the Clinton era was the JDAM, a relatively cheap "tail kit"
that turns dumb bombs into smart bombs.

Yes Clinton's military is great at doing military. Unfortunately, that does
not extend to being a great police force, as evidenced in Iraq today. Abu
Ghraib is a symptom of what happens when you try to turn soldiers into cops
and jailors.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

Jason Johnson wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Marcia,
I hope that Mark and yourself are correct. I hope that nuclear bombs and
chemical bombs never explode in America.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Me, too, Jason. Right now I can only stomach about 10 minutes of CNN
before getting an anxiety attack. We've got to vote this aggressive and
irresponsible regime out of office.

marcia, donning flame-proof suit.