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"No fear" a police off. perspective on punishment



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 28th 04, 12:03 AM
Carlson LaVonne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What book is this? was "No fear" a police off. perspectiveon punishment

New York Time Best Seller is an indication of mass popularity, not
quality. I wouldn't imagine a book that reveals the myriad of problems
in the ever popular practice of hitting children in the name of
discipline to be on the New York Times best seller list.

If it was on the best seller list, I suspect we would be hitting
children a whole lot less and learning alternatives a whole lot more.

Good post, Doan.

LaVonne

Doan wrote:

Beating the Devil.... By Murray Struas
Publisher: Transaction Pub; 2nd edition (September 2001)
ISBN: 0765807548

Average Customer Review: Based on 1 review by Chris Dugan.

Amazon.com Sales Rank: 265,065

Going to be the next New York Times Best seller soon! ;-)

Doan

On 26 Feb 2004, Kane wrote:


On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:49:58 -0600, Carlson LaVonne
wrote:

Not a problem. His book has had a very insightful review by Chris
Dugan on his website:

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/NoFear1.htm

Read all the pages.......

The good officer is something less than accurate.....of course, when
looking at the product of the spanking compulsives one expects a good
deal of that.


What book is this, Fern? I'd like to read it, but I can hardly go to
amazon.com and say "Fern described this book about a police officer


that

has witnessed today's youth becoming more defiant." Or can I? Maybe
you are so well known on amazon.com that this is all I need to do.


I'll

try it and let you know.


Normally one would include the title, author, publisher, and if
possible, the ISBN number. But maybe just the mention of your name
"Fern" will allow me to order the book.


Amazon:

http://tinyurl.com/3x5h9

Paperback: 256 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.77 x 8.97 x 6.04
Publisher: Providence House Pub; (December 31, 1999)
ISBN: 1577361598

Average Customer Review: Based on 9 reviews. Write a review.

Amazon.com Sales Rank: 346,516

Hey, going to number 1 any day now.....E E E E E R R R R R O O O O O
O.............



LaVonne

Fern5827 wrote:


Book Description
In his eighteen years of service as a law enforcement officer,


Detective Robert

Surgenor has witnessed an alarming rise in defiance and a total


lack of fear in

Americas youth. In many of todays young people, there is no fear.


No fear of

consequences. No fear of authority. No fear of God. A generation


without

conscience.
Interviewing hundreds of juvenile offenders and their families,


Detective

Surgenor discovered that the majority of violent juvenile offenders


come from

homes where there is no corporal punishment, or spanking.

Surgenor advocates the use of corporal punishment, following the


wisdom of King

Solomon in Proverbs 29:15, The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a


child left to

himself bringeth his mother to shame.


Oh, you mean the Solomon that himself was not above sin, of a most
egregious kind, and raised a son that himself was so cruel he had to
flee his kingdom with the populous at this heels.

You mean the Solomon that ordered his guard to cleave a child in two
with a sword if neither mother would give up the child?

Yeah, that towering font of wisdom. You have to read proverbs
sometime, Portulacca.



The book includes an appendix that lists each of the 50 states'


laws regarding

child abuse and parental authority.


Our dear Flower forgot a little something and of course didn't cite
Amazon with an URL....hehehehe

Yah just gotta read the reviews....yo might even want to add your own.
OTHER police officers? R R R ... and over the top, "Whoomp'em"
advocates.

Yep, that's our spanking compulsives allrighty.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Available on amazon.com

Would you rather have your kids locked up? Remember the US is the


largest

incarcerator of souls in the WORLD.

Hire an attorney, contact with CPS?

Get the busy-bodies out of family life........


Oh yeah.....r r r r

Kane




  #12  
Old February 28th 04, 01:03 AM
Doan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What book is this? was "No fear" a police off. perspectiveon punishment


It also means that you haven't read many of Chris Dugan's post on this
newsgroup. I sympathize with you! ;-)

Doan

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

Billy,

Fern may have posted the title of the book, but it was not included her
post below. One problem with the internet is that not everyone reads
everything posted on a daily basis. If one wants to be understood, one
needs to post the necessary references.

I did not read her previous post, and there was no threaded link.

I thank you for providing the title and the link. You supplied what
Fern should have supplied in her post.

LaVonne

billy f wrote:

She did post the name of the book it's called "No fear" Here is a link where
you can order it
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...08839?v=glance.
Chris Dugan did a review on it a few years a go at
http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/NoFear1.htm.
I have read part of the book and he makes his point well though I think
someone could misinterpret his message and use it as a excuse to abuse their
children.


"Carlson LaVonne" wrote in message
...

What book is this, Fern? I'd like to read it, but I can hardly go to
amazon.com and say "Fern described this book about a police officer that
has witnessed today's youth becoming more defiant." Or can I? Maybe
you are so well known on amazon.com that this is all I need to do. I'll
try it and let you know.

Normally one would include the title, author, publisher, and if
possible, the ISBN number. But maybe just the mention of your name
"Fern" will allow me to order the book.

LaVonne

Fern5827 wrote:


Book Description
In his eighteen years of service as a law enforcement officer, Detective


Robert

Surgenor has witnessed an alarming rise in defiance and a total lack of


fear in

Americas youth. In many of todays young people, there is no fear. No


fear of

consequences. No fear of authority. No fear of God. A generation without
conscience.
Interviewing hundreds of juvenile offenders and their families,


Detective

Surgenor discovered that the majority of violent juvenile offenders come


from

homes where there is no corporal punishment, or spanking.

Surgenor advocates the use of corporal punishment, following the wisdom


of King

Solomon in Proverbs 29:15, The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child


left to

himself bringeth his mother to shame.

The book includes an appendix that lists each of the 50 states' laws


regarding

child abuse and parental authority.






--------------------------------------------------------------------------

------
Available on amazon.com

Would you rather have your kids locked up? Remember the US is the


largest

incarcerator of souls in the WORLD.

Hire an attorney, contact with CPS?

Get the busy-bodies out of family life........






  #13  
Old February 28th 04, 01:06 AM
Doan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What book is this? was "No fear" a police off. perspectiveon punishment

Same can be said about "No Fear"! ;-)

Good post, LaVonne.

Doan

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

New York Time Best Seller is an indication of mass popularity, not
quality. I wouldn't imagine a book that reveals the myriad of problems
in the ever popular practice of hitting children in the name of
discipline to be on the New York Times best seller list.

If it was on the best seller list, I suspect we would be hitting
children a whole lot less and learning alternatives a whole lot more.

Good post, Doan.

LaVonne

Doan wrote:

Beating the Devil.... By Murray Struas
Publisher: Transaction Pub; 2nd edition (September 2001)
ISBN: 0765807548

Average Customer Review: Based on 1 review by Chris Dugan.

Amazon.com Sales Rank: 265,065

Going to be the next New York Times Best seller soon! ;-)

Doan

On 26 Feb 2004, Kane wrote:


On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:49:58 -0600, Carlson LaVonne
wrote:

Not a problem. His book has had a very insightful review by Chris
Dugan on his website:

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/NoFear1.htm

Read all the pages.......

The good officer is something less than accurate.....of course, when
looking at the product of the spanking compulsives one expects a good
deal of that.


What book is this, Fern? I'd like to read it, but I can hardly go to
amazon.com and say "Fern described this book about a police officer

that

has witnessed today's youth becoming more defiant." Or can I? Maybe
you are so well known on amazon.com that this is all I need to do.

I'll

try it and let you know.

Normally one would include the title, author, publisher, and if
possible, the ISBN number. But maybe just the mention of your name
"Fern" will allow me to order the book.

Amazon:

http://tinyurl.com/3x5h9

Paperback: 256 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.77 x 8.97 x 6.04
Publisher: Providence House Pub; (December 31, 1999)
ISBN: 1577361598

Average Customer Review: Based on 9 reviews. Write a review.

Amazon.com Sales Rank: 346,516

Hey, going to number 1 any day now.....E E E E E R R R R R O O O O O
O.............



LaVonne

Fern5827 wrote:


Book Description
In his eighteen years of service as a law enforcement officer,

Detective Robert

Surgenor has witnessed an alarming rise in defiance and a total

lack of fear in

Americas youth. In many of todays young people, there is no fear.

No fear of

consequences. No fear of authority. No fear of God. A generation

without

conscience.
Interviewing hundreds of juvenile offenders and their families,

Detective

Surgenor discovered that the majority of violent juvenile offenders

come from

homes where there is no corporal punishment, or spanking.

Surgenor advocates the use of corporal punishment, following the

wisdom of King

Solomon in Proverbs 29:15, The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a

child left to

himself bringeth his mother to shame.

Oh, you mean the Solomon that himself was not above sin, of a most
egregious kind, and raised a son that himself was so cruel he had to
flee his kingdom with the populous at this heels.

You mean the Solomon that ordered his guard to cleave a child in two
with a sword if neither mother would give up the child?

Yeah, that towering font of wisdom. You have to read proverbs
sometime, Portulacca.



The book includes an appendix that lists each of the 50 states'

laws regarding

child abuse and parental authority.

Our dear Flower forgot a little something and of course didn't cite
Amazon with an URL....hehehehe

Yah just gotta read the reviews....yo might even want to add your own.
OTHER police officers? R R R ... and over the top, "Whoomp'em"
advocates.

Yep, that's our spanking compulsives allrighty.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Available on amazon.com

Would you rather have your kids locked up? Remember the US is the

largest

incarcerator of souls in the WORLD.

Hire an attorney, contact with CPS?

Get the busy-bodies out of family life........

Oh yeah.....r r r r

Kane






  #14  
Old March 27th 04, 10:46 AM
Sherman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "No fear" a police off. perspective on punishment


"Fern5827" wrote in message
...
Book Description
In his eighteen years of service as a law enforcement officer, Detective

Robert
Surgenor has witnessed an alarming rise in defiance and a total lack of

fear in
Americas youth. In many of todays young people, there is no fear. No fear

of
consequences. No fear of authority. No fear of God. A generation without
conscience.
Interviewing hundreds of juvenile offenders and their families, Detective
Surgenor discovered that the majority of violent juvenile offenders come

from
homes where there is no corporal punishment, or spanking.

Surgenor advocates the use of corporal punishment, following the wisdom of

King
Solomon in Proverbs 29:15, The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child

left to
himself bringeth his mother to shame.

The book includes an appendix that lists each of the 50 states' laws

regarding
child abuse and parental authority.


Oh my. She can't peruse the words of this person's book anyway.

A quote from this message at:

http://www.nofear-online.com/police.htm

Acts 17:11:
"received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures
daily, whether those things were so,"

As any reasoning person may discern, Fern is incapable of the above. She is
"readiness of mind" challenged.

Sherman.


  #15  
Old March 27th 04, 10:31 PM
Fern5827
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "No fear" a police off. perspective on punishment

Again, ad homs do NOT a debate make.

A kindergardner can CALL NAMES, Sherry.

Not considered an apt or ethical response.

http://www.CPSWatch.com

Now in 7 states to help falsely accused families.
  #16  
Old March 28th 04, 11:08 AM
Sherman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "No fear" a police off. perspective on punishment


"Fern5827" wrote in message
...
Again, ad homs do NOT a debate make.

A kindergardner can CALL NAMES, Sherry.

Not considered an apt or ethical response.


Pronoun challenged as well?

Again:

A quote from this message at:

http://www.nofear-online.com/police.htm

Acts 17:11:
"received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures
daily, whether those things were so,"

Try it, you might like it. It may help you with your [lack of] ability to
reason and strenghten resistence to the advancing onslaught of senility that
you exhibit.

Sherman.


  #17  
Old March 29th 04, 07:24 AM
Kane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "No fear" a police off. perspective on punishment

rom: Fern5827 )
Subject: "No fear" a police off. perspective on punishment

View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.parenting.spanking
Date: 2004-02-26 11:17:12 PST

Book Description
In his eighteen years of service as a law enforcement officer,

Detective Robert
Surgenor has witnessed an alarming rise in defiance and a total lack

of fear in
Americas youth.


Then he is not in this country. US "Youth" have shown a consistent
reduction in crime in the past ten years at least.

In many of todays young people, there is no fear.


Is "fear" the only thing the officer thinks motivates people to not
commit crimes? I certainly hope not, but then I've read his crap. That
IS what he appears to think.

No fear of
consequences.


On the contrary.

No fear of authority.


Well, not HIS authority, for sure. Loud mouth blowhard that he is.

No fear of God.


Some children are atheists. Why would they be afraid of a myth?

A generation without
conscience.


Wrong. If he had a conscience himself he wouldn't write such tripe and
think he could get away with it.

Interviewing hundreds of juvenile offenders and their families,

Detective
Surgenor discovered that the majority of violent juvenile offenders

come from
homes where there is no corporal punishment, or spanking.


Something over 50%. Hmmm...I have a hunch he is either doing selective
demographics or he is not telling us the whole truth. Interestingly in
once instance where he claimed a child wasn't being spanked the
opposite was true.

Surgenor advocates the use of corporal punishment, following the

wisdom of King
Solomon in Proverbs 29:15, The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a

child left to
himself bringeth his mother to shame.


A thug, and probably Sugenours model and hero. A King that was known
for his cruelty, his many concubines and wives. And so cruel to his
child the boy turned into an even worse despot than Solomon.

Saddam Hussein set himselp up to be a "hero" too and a wise man. He
was you know, for anyone that disagreed now is missing or missing his
or her tongue. .

The book includes an appendix that lists each of the 50 states' laws

regarding
child abuse and parental authority.


Yep. and you really are doing well for a Plant, but please, don't
pretend this was anything like objective research.

Kane




--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Available on amazon.com

Would you rather have your kids locked up? Remember the US is the

largest
incarcerator of souls in the WORLD.


"Souls?" The number may be high, the rate is not the highest. And it's
not for violent crime, it's mostly for drugs.

And YOU NEED TO REMEMBER: This incarceration is taking place in a
nation with 90% of the people having been spanked.

Figure that out.

If you want to blame nonspanking then you have a serious logic fault,
NO?

Hire an attorney, contact with CPS?


Unnnhhh.....duh......Stop drooling you old sot.

Get the busy-bodies out of family life........


No one invited you in. YOU get out. You and your "Liberty Interest of
the
parents" to beat and kill their children manure.

So tell us, Flower Power, are you a Christian Reconstructionist?
How about just a Garden variety right wing fundy?

Kane
  #18  
Old March 30th 04, 08:09 AM
Kane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "No fear" a police off. perspective on punishment

I have never in my whole life feared police, and I have no criminal
record nor have I ever done crime.

So I have to ask, in all innocence, why would we want our children to
fear police? Police are supposed to help, and all the police I knew
and know, with rare exceptions like this blowhard twit Sugenour, are
kind and helpful, unless you do a crime, and then they tend to be
business like.

Twice I've been stopped and questioned in very very bad
circumstances...once a cop had been shot at in my neighborhood and I
was driving a car similar to the suspect. I was treated respectfully
even though the police were very careful to protect themselves....and
I could very well see that as long as I followed their directions....I
WAS PROTECTED AS WELL.

Sugie lies, and so do you. And you both have the same excuse.
Superstition ridden ignoramacies that wouldn't know fact if it bit'em
in the ass. "Researcher" R R R R R.........

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/NoFear1.htm

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/NoFear5.htm

Plant, I realize how very hard it is to find anything that actually
supports the claim that spanking has beneficial effects (in fact it's
impossible to find a single study anywhere...just nonsense like this
author) but you could do better than to pick such a discredited
"author" as this.

He appears to be a Dobson on steroids...more cruel, more dangerous (he
recommends doing things that can cause permanent damange to the
recipient), and more full of himself and biblical bushwah than just
about anyone I've run across outside your bosses.

Since you won't admit to or deny being or working for organized folks
We shall assume henceforth YOU DO. Seems logical.

Now just so you'll have A hole to duck into:

YOU are a **** filled gasbag of a liar.

Now you can claim I use ad hom, while you use one on me and think
yourself clever. And ooooo so innocent.

You are a danger, in denial, to humanity.

Kane
  #19  
Old April 3rd 04, 02:33 AM
Doan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "No fear" a police off. perspective on punishment

On 29 Mar 2004, Kane wrote:

YOU are a **** filled gasbag of a liar.


Another typical response from a "never-spanked" boy! What's up with this
fascination with "****" by never-spanker? ;-)

Doan


  #20  
Old April 3rd 04, 05:06 AM
Kane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "No fear" a police off. perspective on punishment

(Kane) wrote in message om...
I have never in my whole life feared police, and I have no criminal
record nor have I ever done crime.

So I have to ask, in all innocence, why would we want our children to
fear police? Police are supposed to help, and all the police I knew
and know, with rare exceptions like this blowhard twit Sugenour, are
kind and helpful, unless you do a crime, and then they tend to be
business like.

Twice I've been stopped and questioned in very very bad
circumstances...once a cop had been shot at in my neighborhood and I
was driving a car similar to the suspect. I was treated respectfully
even though the police were very careful to protect themselves....and
I could very well see that as long as I followed their directions....I
WAS PROTECTED AS WELL.

Sugie lies, and so do you. And you both have the same excuse.
Superstition ridden ignoramacies that wouldn't know fact if it bit'em
in the ass. "Researcher" R R R R R.........

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/NoFear1.htm

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/NoFear5.htm

Plant, I realize how very hard it is to find anything that actually
supports the claim that spanking has beneficial effects (in fact it's
impossible to find a single study anywhere...just nonsense like this
author) but you could do better than to pick such a discredited
"author" as this.

He appears to be a Dobson on steroids...more cruel, more dangerous (he
recommends doing things that can cause permanent damange to the
recipient), and more full of himself and biblical bushwah than just
about anyone I've run across outside your bosses.

Since you won't admit to or deny being or working for organized folks
We shall assume henceforth YOU DO. Seems logical.

Now just so you'll have A hole to duck into:

YOU are a **** filled gasbag of a liar.

Now you can claim I use ad hom, while you use one on me and think
yourself clever. And ooooo so innocent.

You are a danger, in denial, to humanity.

Kane


Just as I predicted. No attempt to debate the issue of a lying ****
....ops there's that word again...most fitting in this
context.......cop that claims something not true and recommends
"discipline" that risks serious injury, possibly even death. Head
strikes are very dangerous, even with the open hand.

Please remember my martial arts experience.....coming up on 50 years
now.

You may refer to me as Sensei. Or Sien Song. Or as Vo Thuat Master.

So, what do you think of the cop that claims that teens are out of
control and need to be afraid of adults? And the the use of CP, with
of course that limit you describe so well smile being honored.

Or would you like another ad hom escape hatch?

R R R R R

Arline of USC, and Arlina of R R R, aps asking for ME to send the
study....sure, Droaner. Just a coincidence. R R R R R RR R R R R R
R R ....wheez

Kane
 




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