Article that might be interesting

Given the threads about the safety of certain things and
comments from one parent to another on what is safe
and what is not, I thought this article might be of interest.
It was posted on the teacher group for comments, but
no one has responded yet. I think people here might have
something to say on the topic. Excerpts below. It's a long
article and raises an awful lot of different points.

http://cms.psychologytoday.com/artic...12-000010.html

Maybe it's the cyclist in the park, trim under his sleek metallic blue
helmet, cruising along the dirt path...at three miles an hour. On his
tricycle.

Or perhaps it's today's playground, all-rubber-cushioned surface
where kids used to skin their knees. And...wait a minute...those
aren't little kids playing. Their mommies--and especially their
daddies--are in there with them, coplaying or play-by-play
coaching. Few take it half-easy on the perimeter benches, as
parents used to do, letting the kids figure things out for
themselves.

Then there are the sanitizing gels, with which over a third of
parents now send their kids to school, according to a recent
survey. Presumably, parents now worry that school bathrooms
are not good enough for their children.

**********************

Behold the wholly sanitized childhood, without skinned knees
or the occasional C in history. "Kids need to feel badly
sometimes," says child psychologist David Elkind, professor
at Tufts University. "We learn through experience and we
learn through bad experiences. Through failure we learn how
to cope."

Messing up, however, even in the playground, is wildly out of
style. Although error and experimentation are the true mothers
of success, parents are taking pains to remove failure from the
equation.

"Life is planned out for us," says Elise Kramer, a Cornell
University junior. "But we don't know what to want." As Elkind
puts it, "Parents and schools are no longer geared toward
child development, they're geared to academic achievement."

************************

College, it seems, is where the fragility factor is now making
its greatest mark. It's where intellectual and developmental
tracks converge as the emotional training wheels come off.
By all accounts, psychological distress is rampant on college
campuses. It takes a variety of forms, including anxiety and
depression--which are increasingly regarded as two faces
of the same coin--binge drinking and substance abuse,
self-mutilation and other forms of disconnection. The mental
state of students is now so precarious for so many that, says
Steven Hyman, provost of Harvard University and former
director of the National Institute of Mental Health, "it is
interfering with the core mission of the university."

The severity of student mental health problems has been
rising since 1988, according to an annual survey of counseling
center directors. Through 1996, the most common problems
raised by students were relationship issues. That is
developmentally appropriate, reports Sherry Benton, assistant
director of counseling at Kansas State University. But in 1996,
anxiety overtook relationship concerns and has remained the
major problem. The University of Michigan Depression Center,
the nation's first, estimates that 15 percent of college students
nationwide are suffering from that disorder alone.

********************

Talk to a college president or administrator and you're almost
certainly bound to hear tales of the parents who call at 2 a.m. to
protest Branden's C in economics because it's going to damage
his shot at grad school.

(Do parents *really* do this - I would have been embarrassed
if my parents called to complain about my grades to anyone but
me even in high school).

*******************

It's bad enough that today's children are raised in a psychological
hothouse where they are overmonitored and oversheltered. But
that hothouse no longer has geographical or temporal boundaries.
For that you can thank the cell phone. Even in college--or perhaps
especially at college--students are typically in contact with their
parents several times a day, reporting every flicker of experience.
One long-distance call overheard on a recent cross-campus walk:
"Hi, Mom. I just got an ice-cream cone; can you believe they put
sprinkles on the bottom as well as on top?"

"Kids are constantly talking to parents," laments Cornell student
Kramer, which makes them perpetually homesick. Of course,
they're not telling the folks everything, notes Portmann. "They're
not calling their parents to say, 'I really went wild last Friday at
the frat house and now I might have chlamydia. Should I go to
the student health center?'"

The perpetual access to parents infantilizes the young, keeping
them in a permanent state of dependency. Whenever the
slightest difficulty arises, "they're constantly referring to their
parents for guidance," reports Kramer. They're not learning
how to manage for themselves.

Think of the cell phone as the eternal umbilicus. One of the ways
we grow up is by internalizing an image of Mom and Dad and the
values and advice they imparted over the early years. Then,
whenever we find ourselves faced with uncertainty or difficulty,
we call on that internalized image. We become, in a way, all the
wise adults we've had the privilege to know. "But cell phones
keep kids from figuring out what to do," says Anderegg. "They've
never internalized any images; all they've internalized is 'call Mom
or Dad.'"

************************

The end result of cheating childhood is to extend it forever.
Despite all the parental pressure, and probably because of it,
kids are pushing back--in their own way. They're taking longer
to grow up.

Adulthood no longer begins when adolescence ends, according
to a recent report by University of Pennsylvania sociologist Frank
F. Furstenberg and colleagues. There is, instead, a growing
no-man's-land of postadolescence from 20 to 30, which they
dub "early adulthood." Those in it look like adults but "haven't
become fully adult yet--traditionally defined as finishing school,
landing a job with benefits, marrying and parenting--because
they are not ready or perhaps not permitted to do so."

Using the classic benchmarks of adulthood, 65 percent of males
had reached adulthood by the age of 30 in 1960. By contrast, in
2000, only 31 percent had. Among women, 77 percent met the
benchmarks of adulthood by age 30 in 1960. By 2000, the
number had fallen to 46 percent.


..


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

"toto" wrote in message
news
Given the threads about the safety of certain things and
comments from one parent to another on what is safe
and what is not, I thought this article might be of interest.
It was posted on the teacher group for comments, but
no one has responded yet. I think people here might have
something to say on the topic. Excerpts below. It's a long
article and raises an awful lot of different points.

http://cms.psychologytoday.com/artic...12-000010.html

Maybe it's the cyclist in the park, trim under his sleek metallic blue
helmet, cruising along the dirt path...at three miles an hour. On his
tricycle.

Or perhaps it's today's playground, all-rubber-cushioned surface
where kids used to skin their knees. And...wait a minute...those
aren't little kids playing. Their mommies--and especially their
daddies--are in there with them, coplaying or play-by-play
coaching. Few take it half-easy on the perimeter benches, as
parents used to do, letting the kids figure things out for
themselves.

Forget skinned knees, I've been rather surprised at how many broken
bones occur at the playgrounds at my kids' schools.

Then there are the sanitizing gels, with which over a third of
parents now send their kids to school, according to a recent
survey. Presumably, parents now worry that school bathrooms
are not good enough for their children.

We were required to send in hand-sanitizer. It was on the list. I
think they're trying to stem the tide of winter colds.

As for the rest of this article, it's really scarey. I can only hope
that since I don't sound like the parents described, that my kids
won't turn out like th kids they described.

Bizby

**********************

Behold the wholly sanitized childhood, without skinned knees
or the occasional C in history. "Kids need to feel badly
sometimes," says child psychologist David Elkind, professor
at Tufts University. "We learn through experience and we
learn through bad experiences. Through failure we learn how
to cope."

Messing up, however, even in the playground, is wildly out of
style. Although error and experimentation are the true mothers
of success, parents are taking pains to remove failure from the
equation.

"Life is planned out for us," says Elise Kramer, a Cornell
University junior. "But we don't know what to want." As Elkind
puts it, "Parents and schools are no longer geared toward
child development, they're geared to academic achievement."

************************

College, it seems, is where the fragility factor is now making
its greatest mark. It's where intellectual and developmental
tracks converge as the emotional training wheels come off.
By all accounts, psychological distress is rampant on college
campuses. It takes a variety of forms, including anxiety and
depression--which are increasingly regarded as two faces
of the same coin--binge drinking and substance abuse,
self-mutilation and other forms of disconnection. The mental
state of students is now so precarious for so many that, says
Steven Hyman, provost of Harvard University and former
director of the National Institute of Mental Health, "it is
interfering with the core mission of the university."

The severity of student mental health problems has been
rising since 1988, according to an annual survey of counseling
center directors. Through 1996, the most common problems
raised by students were relationship issues. That is
developmentally appropriate, reports Sherry Benton, assistant
director of counseling at Kansas State University. But in 1996,
anxiety overtook relationship concerns and has remained the
major problem. The University of Michigan Depression Center,
the nation's first, estimates that 15 percent of college students
nationwide are suffering from that disorder alone.

********************

Talk to a college president or administrator and you're almost
certainly bound to hear tales of the parents who call at 2 a.m. to
protest Branden's C in economics because it's going to damage
his shot at grad school.

(Do parents *really* do this - I would have been embarrassed
if my parents called to complain about my grades to anyone but
me even in high school).

*******************

It's bad enough that today's children are raised in a psychological
hothouse where they are overmonitored and oversheltered. But
that hothouse no longer has geographical or temporal boundaries.
For that you can thank the cell phone. Even in college--or perhaps
especially at college--students are typically in contact with their
parents several times a day, reporting every flicker of experience.
One long-distance call overheard on a recent cross-campus walk:
"Hi, Mom. I just got an ice-cream cone; can you believe they put
sprinkles on the bottom as well as on top?"

"Kids are constantly talking to parents," laments Cornell student
Kramer, which makes them perpetually homesick. Of course,
they're not telling the folks everything, notes Portmann. "They're
not calling their parents to say, 'I really went wild last Friday at
the frat house and now I might have chlamydia. Should I go to
the student health center?'"

The perpetual access to parents infantilizes the young, keeping
them in a permanent state of dependency. Whenever the
slightest difficulty arises, "they're constantly referring to their
parents for guidance," reports Kramer. They're not learning
how to manage for themselves.

Think of the cell phone as the eternal umbilicus. One of the ways
we grow up is by internalizing an image of Mom and Dad and the
values and advice they imparted over the early years. Then,
whenever we find ourselves faced with uncertainty or difficulty,
we call on that internalized image. We become, in a way, all the
wise adults we've had the privilege to know. "But cell phones
keep kids from figuring out what to do," says Anderegg. "They've
never internalized any images; all they've internalized is 'call Mom
or Dad.'"

************************

The end result of cheating childhood is to extend it forever.
Despite all the parental pressure, and probably because of it,
kids are pushing back--in their own way. They're taking longer
to grow up.

Adulthood no longer begins when adolescence ends, according
to a recent report by University of Pennsylvania sociologist Frank
F. Furstenberg and colleagues. There is, instead, a growing
no-man's-land of postadolescence from 20 to 30, which they
dub "early adulthood." Those in it look like adults but "haven't
become fully adult yet--traditionally defined as finishing school,
landing a job with benefits, marrying and parenting--because
they are not ready or perhaps not permitted to do so."

Using the classic benchmarks of adulthood, 65 percent of males
had reached adulthood by the age of 30 in 1960. By contrast, in
2000, only 31 percent had. Among women, 77 percent met the
benchmarks of adulthood by age 30 in 1960. By 2000, the
number had fallen to 46 percent.


.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

In article , toto says...



The end result of cheating childhood is to extend it forever.
Despite all the parental pressure, and probably because of it,
kids are pushing back--in their own way. They're taking longer
to grow up.

Adulthood no longer begins when adolescence ends, according
to a recent report by University of Pennsylvania sociologist Frank
F. Furstenberg and colleagues. There is, instead, a growing
no-man's-land of postadolescence from 20 to 30, which they
dub "early adulthood." Those in it look like adults but "haven't
become fully adult yet--traditionally defined as finishing school,
landing a job with benefits, marrying and parenting--because
they are not ready or perhaps not permitted to do so."

Using the classic benchmarks of adulthood, 65 percent of males
had reached adulthood by the age of 30 in 1960. By contrast, in
2000, only 31 percent had. Among women, 77 percent met the
benchmarks of adulthood by age 30 in 1960. By 2000, the
number had fallen to 46 percent.

I don't think adolescence should be extended, indeed I think part of the cure
(as much as there could be one for physiological reasons) for adolscent angst
and problems are giving adolescents a useful place in society.

However, frankly I never put much stock in Psychology Today except that it's an
entertaining airport-wait read. According to this article, heck, I'm not an
adult at nearly 50. Because I didn't 'reach' one of the 'classic benchmarks'.

Banty

In article ,
toto wrote:

Those in it look like adults but "haven't
become fully adult yet--traditionally defined as finishing school,
landing a job with benefits, marrying and parenting--because
they are not ready or perhaps not permitted to do so."

Using the classic benchmarks of adulthood, 65 percent of males
had reached adulthood by the age of 30 in 1960. By contrast, in
2000, only 31 percent had. Among women, 77 percent met the
benchmarks of adulthood by age 30 in 1960. By 2000, the
number had fallen to 46 percent.

Using THESE benchmarks, neither DH nor I were "adults" until we were 30.
I was self supporting from the age of 19 (got an occassional $20 from my
parents, but that's all the financial support they could offer), had
held several part time jobs while I put myself through college, held a
couple of full time jobs, went back and got my MBA, married at 27, and
was working full time -- but did not have my first child until I was 30.
DH had not been dependent upon his parents for support from about 22,
was 25 when we got married, but, other than Teaching Assistantships and
Research Assistantships, he did not have a job until he finished his PhD
when he was 30. (It was a pretty brutal program.) However, we were
completely financially self-supporting, on my income.

I remember getting VERY angry when my aunt explained to me that HER
daughter was a grownup, because she was married and had a baby, but,
since I wasn't married, I wasn't yet. Mind you, my 2 year younger
cousin married right out of high school and was on welfare, while I was
fully financially independent and had finished college -- but somehow I
wasn't a real grownup yet.

Hmmmm -- looking back over this, I think you pushed an old ****ed off
button........
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Another thing that I found out what is new for parents is a little black box
you can put in your car and it has a computer chip in it and you can see if
your teenager is speeding, going off the course that the teen was supposed
to be going and how long time was spent at the destination. There were other
features to this black box. Seems over the top to me, but there ya go.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

In article ,
"Sue" wrote:

Another thing that I found out what is new for parents is a little black box
you can put in your car and it has a computer chip in it and you can see if
your teenager is speeding, going off the course that the teen was supposed
to be going and how long time was spent at the destination. There were other
features to this black box. Seems over the top to me, but there ya go.

I can see using something like this as a consequence of behavior that
was already a problem: if a child has gotten into trouble over issues
with the car -- speeding, going where they weren't supposed to, lying
about where they were -- you might take the keys away for a time, and
then give them back WITH the black box and a clear statement that if
they speed or go where they aren't supposed to go, you will keep the
keys for even longer. I would only use something like this with a kid
who had proven themselves untrustworthy -- someone who consistently lied
AND who had other major issues.

However, I think parents who use things like this for ordinary kids with
ordinary issues are overcontrolling.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , toto says...



The end result of cheating childhood is to extend it forever.
Despite all the parental pressure, and probably because of it,
kids are pushing back--in their own way. They're taking longer
to grow up.

Adulthood no longer begins when adolescence ends, according
to a recent report by University of Pennsylvania sociologist Frank
F. Furstenberg and colleagues. There is, instead, a growing
no-man's-land of postadolescence from 20 to 30, which they
dub "early adulthood." Those in it look like adults but "haven't
become fully adult yet--traditionally defined as finishing school,
landing a job with benefits, marrying and parenting--because
they are not ready or perhaps not permitted to do so."

Using the classic benchmarks of adulthood, 65 percent of males
had reached adulthood by the age of 30 in 1960. By contrast, in
2000, only 31 percent had. Among women, 77 percent met the
benchmarks of adulthood by age 30 in 1960. By 2000, the
number had fallen to 46 percent.

I don't think adolescence should be extended, indeed I think part of the
cure
(as much as there could be one for physiological reasons) for adolscent
angst
and problems are giving adolescents a useful place in society.


What do you mean give adolescents a useful place in society? I do not
understand.

However, frankly I never put much stock in Psychology Today except that
it's an
entertaining airport-wait read. According to this article, heck, I'm not
an
adult at nearly 50. Because I didn't 'reach' one of the 'classic
benchmarks'.

Banty

In article , Stephanie says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , toto says...



The end result of cheating childhood is to extend it forever.
Despite all the parental pressure, and probably because of it,
kids are pushing back--in their own way. They're taking longer
to grow up.

Adulthood no longer begins when adolescence ends, according
to a recent report by University of Pennsylvania sociologist Frank
F. Furstenberg and colleagues. There is, instead, a growing
no-man's-land of postadolescence from 20 to 30, which they
dub "early adulthood." Those in it look like adults but "haven't
become fully adult yet--traditionally defined as finishing school,
landing a job with benefits, marrying and parenting--because
they are not ready or perhaps not permitted to do so."

Using the classic benchmarks of adulthood, 65 percent of males
had reached adulthood by the age of 30 in 1960. By contrast, in
2000, only 31 percent had. Among women, 77 percent met the
benchmarks of adulthood by age 30 in 1960. By 2000, the
number had fallen to 46 percent.

I don't think adolescence should be extended, indeed I think part of the
cure
(as much as there could be one for physiological reasons) for adolscent
angst
and problems are giving adolescents a useful place in society.


What do you mean give adolescents a useful place in society? I do not
understand.


I mean some part of adult role and responsibility extended to younger ages.
Family and apprenticeships have long started long before the 18 or upwards that
we expect things to hold off to today. So adolescents are expected to can their
feelings and impulses, study, and have 'clean fun'. It doesn't work.

I admit that I'm not full of ideas as to exactly how to implement this in our
current society.

Banty

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Stephanie says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , toto says...



The end result of cheating childhood is to extend it forever.
Despite all the parental pressure, and probably because of it,
kids are pushing back--in their own way. They're taking longer
to grow up.

Adulthood no longer begins when adolescence ends, according
to a recent report by University of Pennsylvania sociologist Frank
F. Furstenberg and colleagues. There is, instead, a growing
no-man's-land of postadolescence from 20 to 30, which they
dub "early adulthood." Those in it look like adults but "haven't
become fully adult yet--traditionally defined as finishing school,
landing a job with benefits, marrying and parenting--because
they are not ready or perhaps not permitted to do so."

Using the classic benchmarks of adulthood, 65 percent of males
had reached adulthood by the age of 30 in 1960. By contrast, in
2000, only 31 percent had. Among women, 77 percent met the
benchmarks of adulthood by age 30 in 1960. By 2000, the
number had fallen to 46 percent.

I don't think adolescence should be extended, indeed I think part of
the
cure
(as much as there could be one for physiological reasons) for adolscent
angst
and problems are giving adolescents a useful place in society.


What do you mean give adolescents a useful place in society? I do not
understand.


I mean some part of adult role and responsibility extended to younger
ages.
Family and apprenticeships have long started long before the 18 or upwards
that
we expect things to hold off to today. So adolescents are expected to can
their
feelings and impulses, study, and have 'clean fun'. It doesn't work.

I admit that I'm not full of ideas as to exactly how to implement this in
our
current society.

Banty


There was a move a while back where I used to live to increase the age at
which a person could get a driver's license to 18 because of the numbers of
accidents young drivers had. I thought, at the time, what is the purpose of
that? What is going to be different at 18 than at 16? What was needed was a
decent driver's ed program. The one I went through was a joke. What was
needed was experience and practice. The places which have instituted
strenuous programs with driving simulators and such have shown marked
decrease in accidents among the newly licensed. Don't ask me to cite. I
heard it on the radio and cannot remember where it occured.

My point is that the passage of time alone has a limited ability to aid the
maturation process. There has to be experience, mistakes made, etc..

I think I am agreeing with you, basically.

Stephanie

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:46:36 -0500, "Stephanie"
wrote:

What do you mean give adolescents a useful place in society?
I do not understand.

It used to be true that adolescents were working at *real* jobs
(even if they stayed in school). Often this involved working on
the family farm or in a family business, not necessarily working
in a factory or being paid wages.

In that situation, they felt grown up. They knew that their work
was valued by the community. They were expected to take
responsibility for their actions, now we don't even give them
the responsibility for their grades. It's always the school's
fault or the teacher's fault or the parent's fault if they are not
learning and not getting the grades they want.

There is a long lag between the time young people hit puberty
and the time they are assigned adult status. In modern society,
this gap is widening significantly: Kids are hitting puberty at
earlier ages than ever before, yet they are being treated as
children at ages that would have been considered grown-up
only a few decades ago.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits