punishment

Helen writes:
We don't have a lot of luck with CDs from the library -- out of
several music CDs I checked out at the same time, I think only one was
really listenable.

I don't have a lot of experience with music CDs, but have you tried a
disk polisher? They make a big difference with software CDs (which get
scratched by my kids).

The scratch tolerance of different CD players also varies quite a bit.

David desJardins

We bought our Montana van two years ago, and at the time, I thought
the VCR was a stupid feature and a waste of money (it was hubbies
idea). I've changed my mind entirely. We have three kids (now 12, 9
and 5) and we own a summer cottage that is a 3 1/2 drive (which
usually ends up being 4 1/2 with traffic, stops for food, fuel,
bathrooms etc.).

I used to hate the drive, since the kids would complain, fight, kick
the seat etc. Now, we hit the highway, pop in a tape and wow, complete
peace and quiet. The kids each have headphones, so we don't hear the
sound of the movie, and hubbie and I get to listen to nice music in
the front (stuff WE like to listen to, whether radio, CD or tape) and
actually TALK to each other, while the kids are glued to Toy Story or
Harry Potter. Tape runs out, they start nattering at each other again.

It has been a great thing for us on that boring drive to the lake. The
kids are happy and mom and dad are way less stressed, and the trip
goes much faster.

Mary G.

In article ,
Scott Lindstrom wrote:

Mary Gordon wrote:


I used to hate the drive, since the kids would complain, fight, kick
the seat etc. Now, we hit the highway, pop in a tape and wow, complete
peace and quiet. The kids each have headphones, so we don't hear the
sound of the movie, and hubbie and I get to listen to nice music in
the front (stuff WE like to listen to, whether radio, CD or tape) and
actually TALK to each other, while the kids are glued to Toy Story or
Harry Potter. Tape runs out, they start nattering at each other again.

We taught our kids that is was totally unacceptable to
distract the driver. I even recall an aborted trip
because they couldn't settle down. That includes screaming,
kicking the seat, etc. I think that's a more important
thing to teach than just about anything in a car.


I have to agree, even though we regularly do a similar three-hour drive
to the lake. I understand the temptation to pacify them by popping in a
tape (and my daughter would be completely thrilled if that were a car
option), but having to entertain yourself on a long trip without
electronic aids and without annoying your travelling companions is a
valuable life skill best learned young, IMO. Of course, we only have
one kid, so we don't have sibling nattering. But she's fully capable of
nattering at us enough to make up for it.

At a fairly early age, she started entertaining herself by drawing in
the car, and now she's more likely to read. Now and then she'll
remember to bring her personal CD player and will go under headphones to
listen to music. I much prefer those habits to the movie habit,
especially since it would negate the "brains to mush" message we try to
convey about excessive tv-watching at home. And sometimes we actually
have interesting three-way conversations in the car.

For those reasons, I will veto a DVD player in the car until it's
standard equipment on the economy cars I favor and I can only get rid of
it by physically ripping it out.

Elizabeth Gardner wrote:

[snip stuff about DVDs in car] And sometimes we actually
have interesting three-way conversations in the car.

In addition to having interesting conversations with the kids,
I learn very interesting things in the car when DD and DS are
bored and start talking to each other. I learn even more
interesting things if a friend is in the car as well and they
talk. Eavesdropping can teach you things.

Scott DD 10 and DS 7

In article ,
Elizabeth Gardner wrote:

In article ,
Scott Lindstrom wrote:

Mary Gordon wrote:


I used to hate the drive, since the kids would complain, fight, kick
the seat etc. Now, we hit the highway, pop in a tape and wow, complete
peace and quiet. The kids each have headphones, so we don't hear the
sound of the movie, and hubbie and I get to listen to nice music in
the front (stuff WE like to listen to, whether radio, CD or tape) and
actually TALK to each other, while the kids are glued to Toy Story or
Harry Potter. Tape runs out, they start nattering at each other again.

We taught our kids that is was totally unacceptable to
distract the driver. I even recall an aborted trip
because they couldn't settle down. That includes screaming,
kicking the seat, etc. I think that's a more important
thing to teach than just about anything in a car.


I have to agree, even though we regularly do a similar three-hour drive
to the lake. I understand the temptation to pacify them by popping in a
tape (and my daughter would be completely thrilled if that were a car
option), but having to entertain yourself on a long trip without
electronic aids and without annoying your travelling companions is a
valuable life skill best learned young, IMO. Of course, we only have
one kid, so we don't have sibling nattering. But she's fully capable of
nattering at us enough to make up for it.


It isn't the nattering that gets to be a problem -- it's the fighting
with each other in a way that kids (generally) only do with siblings.

I once watched in the mirror (DH was driving) while my then 2 yo DD
tried to keep from falling asleep. She "popped" herself awake several
times -- then, looking for something to keep her awake and with
absolutely NO provocation or warning, suddenly hit her twin brother.
(It worked: he started screaming, she stayed awake.) On some trips, we
put ME between them in the back seat -- but than meant having their
younger sister in the front seat, something that, even then, wasn't
considered desireable.

DVD players weren't an option when my kids were little; we used music
tapes. I have one who cannot read or draw or write in the car without
getting violently ill, though sometimes one would read to everyone else.
We talked, we played games, we did all kinds of things. We did some
VERY long drives (Massachusetts to Minnesota and back every summer,
several 10 hour trips, a 4 hour trip several times a year) and you can
bet that if DVD players for cars had been available, I'd have gladly put
them in the car and played the sorts of things my kids enjoyed watching
together!

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

It is hard to annoy your sibs when you don't have any. Sorry, just
don't think our situation is comparable.

Mary G.

wrote:

We taught our kids that is was totally unacceptable to
distract the driver. I even recall an aborted trip
because they couldn't settle down. That includes screaming,
kicking the seat, etc. I think that's a more important
thing to teach than just about anything in a car.

I had to walk a couple of miles home with two 4.5-year-olds once, because we
were on the way to a party and the roads turned out to be dangerously icy (a
freak weather thing, no one had expected it, and we don't usually get icy roads
so we weren't in any way prepared). My husband started talking about going
home, and the girls started crying and carrying on about not going to the
party. He couldn't drive on ice with two kids yelling (or even with one kid),
so he stopped and let us out.

All of us made it home safely. Fortunately the kids did have fairly warm
clothing on.

--Helen

In article ,
H Schinske wrote:
wrote:

We taught our kids that is was totally unacceptable to
distract the driver. I even recall an aborted trip
because they couldn't settle down. That includes screaming,
kicking the seat, etc. I think that's a more important
thing to teach than just about anything in a car.

I had to walk a couple of miles home with two 4.5-year-olds once, because we
were on the way to a party and the roads turned out to be dangerously icy (a
freak weather thing, no one had expected it, and we don't usually get icy roads
so we weren't in any way prepared). My husband started talking about going
home, and the girls started crying and carrying on about not going to the
party. He couldn't drive on ice with two kids yelling (or even with one kid),
so he stopped and let us out.

I'm surprised you could walk safely in icy conditions, especially with
the threat of drivers not accustomed to driving in ice on the roads.
I think in the same situation I would have pulled over until they could
quiet down, but I would not have had anyone get out. I'm sure it made
quite an impression, though!

All of us made it home safely.

Glad to hear it!

--Robyn

wrote:

I'm surprised you could walk safely in icy conditions, especially with
the threat of drivers not accustomed to driving in ice on the roads.

Well, to be clear, they weren't icy right by our house, or we wouldn't have
gotten as far as we did. It was a freak thing -- the neighborhood where the
party was didn't have any ice either, so most of the expected guests had no
trouble getting there, only the ones from out our way.

It was in the city, with sidewalks, and quite flat where we were walking. So I
really wouldn't have expected anyone, even a Seattle driver ;-), to screw up
badly enough to go up on the sidewalk. We did fall down a few times when
crossing streets, though.

I was quite used to walking on ice, having lived in Worcester, Mass., where the
winter weather goes freeze/thaw/freeze/thaw all winter long. I can remember
falling on the ice when pregnant with my twins about a zillion times, and never
really hurting myself. So it didn't occur to me to be very nervous about it.

--Helen

In article ,
H Schinske wrote:
wrote:

I'm surprised you could walk safely in icy conditions, especially with
the threat of drivers not accustomed to driving in ice on the roads.

Well, to be clear, they weren't icy right by our house, or we wouldn't have
gotten as far as we did. It was a freak thing -- the neighborhood where the
party was didn't have any ice either, so most of the expected guests had no
trouble getting there, only the ones from out our way.

It was in the city, with sidewalks, and quite flat where we were walking. So I
really wouldn't have expected anyone, even a Seattle driver ;-), to screw up
badly enough to go up on the sidewalk. We did fall down a few times when
crossing streets, though.

I was quite used to walking on ice, having lived in Worcester, Mass., where the
winter weather goes freeze/thaw/freeze/thaw all winter long. I can remember
falling on the ice when pregnant with my twins about a zillion times, and never
really hurting myself. So it didn't occur to me to be very nervous about it.

I realized after sending this that it sounded like I was questioning your
decision without really knowing the circumstances, and I didn't mean to do
that. I assumed that there were circumstances that made it safe enough
to walk. I just had a hard time imagining them because in my experience
(living in VT, with good snow tires and a heavy vehicle) I can safely drive
in much icier conditions than I can walk in witout falling frequently.

I was mostly "big pregnant" in the summer when I lived in MA. I do
remember falling on ice while carrying Ryan in a Snuggli under my coat
once when he was tiny; we weren't hurt but it's not an experience I'd
choose to repeat! I also fell when carrying Matthew, about 3yo, from
the car to the house. I'd had no trouble driving but fell pretty badly
while walking. I fell flat on my back. He landed on me and didn't get
hurt, but I was pretty bruised up from that one.

Evan was born in March in VT, and I managed never to slip on the ice
while carrying him (inside or out). I did have one experience when
I got stuck on a back road that was badly enough iced up that I couldn't
drive and ended up waiting for the sand truck to come up. When I had to
get out of the car briefly, I was clinging to the edge for dear life.


--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)