Kindergarten - my child "going postal" every morning...

In article ,
Noreen Cooper wrote:

Some other person said (sorry for lack of attribution) that really the
private schools are the ones that need parent volunteers the most.
****haw! Our local private school requires two separate tests before a
student is admitted, no matter how deep your momma or pappa's pockets go.

YMMV.

Yes, some private schools do hand-select their students and end up with
a more homogeneous grouping because of it. Most don't. And most
private schools I know of are indeed more underfunded than the public
schools in the same area. My older children attend one such school.
They depend on parent volunteers, both in and out of the classroom, and
this is made clear to parents investigating the school. Every family
is expected to help in some way, though I expect that if a student
applied from a family where circumstances made this impossible, that
probably wouldn't be held against them in the admissions process. The
dedicated teachers already work way too hard for way too little money;
we help them where we can.

--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)

In article ,
MarjiG wrote:
little paper Santas to cut out (just to tie in the usual arguement
with this one).


LOL! :-P

--Robyn

Claire Petersky wrote:

: I took Emma's Camp Fire group (yup, I'm one of those apparently
: irresponsible and uncaring parents who volunteer through a youth
: organization, rather than in the classroom)

I'd like to take this opportunity to summarize my observations of this
entire volatile thread.

First of all, this thread began with a request for help. My suggestion
was simply that by contacting a in-class volunteer, the mother would
perhaps get some insight about her child's in-class performance. It
remains the sole constructive suggestion on the table if the mom, for
whatever reason, cannot do the scouting herself.

Second, although the thread was highjacked by people with a need to vent
against the movement to volunteer in class, none of the pro in-class
volunteers ever made the statement "you are a bad and uncaring person if
you do not help out as a classroom volunteer." This is a
mischaracterization by the anti-volunteer partisans. Why? Why the
distortion? Why the rage?

Third, in retrospect, this whole debate seems like another silly way to
argue WP vs. SAH, with in-class volunteerism being a diffused "going back
to work" metaphor. And it especially is hitting a hot button for working
mothers who bring in the "why doesn't my husband get asked to volunteer in
the class" when no one even suggested the mom be forced into that kind of
service to the schools to begin with. People are different, have
different needs, different abilities, let's just admit it and move on
without needing to raise our collective blood pressures.

Noreen

wrote:

First of all, this thread began with a request for help. My suggestion
was simply that by contacting a in-class volunteer, the mother would
perhaps get some insight about her child's in-class performance. It
remains the sole constructive suggestion on the table if the mom, for
whatever reason, cannot do the scouting herself.

I think you've missed a substantial portion of the early part of the thread,
then. Looking at the posts from the first three days (Aug 19-21) I found
numerous concrete suggestions. Here are some pointers (reduced by tinyurl.com
to make this post readable) in case you missed them. This list is not
exhaustive, but more representative. More importantly, I provide these in case
the OP would like to summarize the excellent advice I believe she received from
several different posters, including (but certainly not limited to by any
stretch) you:

http://tinyurl.com/leec
http://tinyurl.com/leek
http://tinyurl.com/leel
http://tinyurl.com/leen
http://tinyurl.com/leep
http://tinyurl.com/leer
and
http://tinyurl.com/leeu

Since my initial post (the first one on the list) took me quite some time to
write and, by my count, contained a minimum of 7 concrete suggestions, I will
admit that I am personally offended by your assertion.

Second, although the thread was highjacked by people with a need to vent
against the movement to volunteer in class, none of the pro in-class
volunteers ever made the statement "you are a bad and uncaring person if
you do not help out as a classroom volunteer." This is a
mischaracterization by the anti-volunteer partisans. Why? Why the
distortion? Why the rage?

By my research, most of it is in response or further clarification of your own
posts. Of 256 posts in this and related threads, 50 are from you -- or 20%.
Each of your posts sparked more clarification and debate. I expect there would
have been less distortion/rage on both sides if everyone could have agreed to
disagree and didn't need to have the last word.

Third, in retrospect, this whole debate seems like another silly way to
argue WP vs. SAH, with in-class volunteerism being a diffused "going back
to work" metaphor. And it especially is hitting a hot button for working
mothers who bring in the "why doesn't my husband get asked to volunteer in
the class" when no one even suggested the mom be forced into that kind of
service to the schools to begin with. People are different, have
different needs, different abilities, let's just admit it and move on
without needing to raise our collective blood pressures.

I'm happy to move on, and would have if your initial statement hadn't been so
personally offensive to me and to other posters who sincerely tried to help.
I've made that clarification now, so the last word can be yours as far as I'm
concerned.

I sincerely hope the OP got some help from the thread, especially in the early
days, and I'd love it if she would post a summary of how her child is doing in
kindergarten now.

-Dawn
Mom to Henry, 10

x-no-archive:yes Noreen Cooper wrote:

Claire Petersky wrote:

: I took Emma's Camp Fire group (yup, I'm one of those apparently
: irresponsible and uncaring parents who volunteer through a youth
: organization, rather than in the classroom)

I'd like to take this opportunity to summarize my observations of this
entire volatile thread.

First of all, this thread began with a request for help. My suggestion
was simply that by contacting a in-class volunteer, the mother would
perhaps get some insight about her child's in-class performance. It
remains the sole constructive suggestion on the table if the mom, for
whatever reason, cannot do the scouting herself.

It wasn't the sole suggestion. It was one of the suggestions - one of
them was to ask the teacher herself.

Second, although the thread was highjacked by people with a need to vent
against the movement to volunteer in class, none of the pro in-class
volunteers ever made the statement "you are a bad and uncaring person if
you do not help out as a classroom volunteer." This is a

You said this yourself. You said if someone did not participate in
some way (with the obvious bias on your part that volunteering in the
classroom was the preferred way to do it) you would judge them. You
have repeated this several times.

mischaracterization by the anti-volunteer partisans. Why? Why the
distortion? Why the rage?

The rage was because it is an attitude that is out there among other
school personnel who contrive to make anyone who can't be at school
during the day feel as though they aren't good parents. You were just
the focus of folks who have had this same attitude given them over and
over and they basically were saying "I won't take it anymore".


Third, in retrospect, this whole debate seems like another silly way to
argue WP vs. SAH, with in-class volunteerism being a diffused "going back
to work" metaphor. And it especially is hitting a hot button for working
mothers who bring in the "why doesn't my husband get asked to volunteer in
the class" when no one even suggested the mom be forced into that kind of
service to the schools to begin with. People are different, have
different needs, different abilities, let's just admit it and move on
without needing to raise our collective blood pressures.

Doesn't make it any better if you say parent instead of mother.
Because the school personnel (again) will suggest that it must be the
mom and not the dad. If you really read what people were writing,
you'd know where the rage comes from. Perfectly understandable IMHO.

grandma Rosalie

x-no-archive: yes

"Noreen Cooper" wrote in message
...

none of the pro in-class
volunteers ever made the statement "you are a bad and uncaring person
if
you do not help out as a classroom volunteer."

That's strictly speaking true. The actual quote was:

[Margi G wrote:]

I'll bite... Someone who doesn't do what they can to help public
schools is
being a bad citizen.

So I still maintain no one has ever said if you do not help out **IN THE
CLASSROOM** you are a bad citizen. There's a big difference. If you do
nothing to help out the schools, you are a bad citizen. If you don't
volunteer in the classroom, you are a bad citizen. Two different
statements completely.

Noreen

x-no-archive:yes

(I'm trying to keep the no archive thingie in for those who are wanting
anonymity in this thread)

gmbeasley wrote:

Second, although the thread was highjacked by people with a need to vent
against the movement to volunteer in class, none of the pro in-class
volunteers ever made the statement "you are a bad and uncaring person if
you do not help out as a classroom volunteer." This is a

You said this yourself. You said if someone did not participate in some
way (with the obvious bias on your part that volunteering in the classroom
was the preferred way to do it) you would judge them. You have repeated
this several times.

(sigh) I have no idea how these leaps of logic occur. I have said
several times on this thread I don't believe everyone *should* help out
in the classroom. Some people are simply not temperamentally well suited
to be around a class of 20 small children, and I can respect that. We
all come with our strengths and differences.

It's been many years since you've been out of teaching. Things have
changed dramatically. Are you in contact with any teachers today, maybe
even someone teaching in an underfunded district? If not, I'd challenge
you to check out your local public school and see if the teachers believe
parents have zero obligation to help out the schools. In fact, if others
are so strong in their conviction, I double dare challenge you all to go
up to your child/ren's teacher tomorrow and tell him/her you have
absolutely zero obligation to help out the schools. And if you don't take
up the challenge, what do you make of your conviction then?

Noreen

Rosalie B. wrote:
: x-no-archive:yes Noreen Cooper wrote:

: You said this yourself. You said if someone did not participate in
: some way (with the obvious bias on your part that volunteering in the
: classroom was the preferred way to do it) you would judge them. You
: have repeated this several times.

This is what keeps me going, sorry. I have said *several* times that
volunteering in the classroom is NOT for everyone. Because *I* volunteer,
do I need to put myself up as the scapegoat du jour for every parent who
has issues with volunteering in the classroom? Volunteering in the
classroom is one way I give back to the schools but I also donate a
significant amount of money and organize a big event for the kids every
year.

: The rage was because it is an attitude that is out there among other
: school personnel who contrive to make anyone who can't be at school
: during the day feel as though they aren't good parents. You were just
: the focus of folks who have had this same attitude given them over and
: over and they basically were saying "I won't take it anymore".

Errr, well, I think they were saying, "I won't take it anymore" to the
wrong person if it was directed at me. Maybe those parents should go and
talk to the right people if they want results.

Noreen

Noreen Cooper wrote:



So I still maintain no one has ever said if you do not help out **IN THE
CLASSROOM** you are a bad citizen. There's a big difference. If you do
nothing to help out the schools, you are a bad citizen. If you don't
volunteer in the classroom, you are a bad citizen. Two different
statements completely.

Noreen

I'll reapeat from an earlier post I made:


"My husband and I are prefectly happy with the amount of time and energy
we
spend at our children's schools. We have considered our resources and
how to best allocate them for the good of our family and our community.
'Nuff said. "

THAT'S what good citizenship is.

Marion Baumgarten

Noreen Cooper wrote in :

[snip]
(sigh) I have no idea how these leaps of logic occur. I have said
several times on this thread I don't believe everyone *should* help out
in the classroom. Some people are simply not temperamentally well suited
to be around a class of 20 small children, and I can respect that. We
all come with our strengths and differences.

It's been many years since you've been out of teaching. Things have
changed dramatically. Are you in contact with any teachers today, maybe
even someone teaching in an underfunded district? If not, I'd challenge
you to check out your local public school and see if the teachers believe
parents have zero obligation to help out the schools. In fact, if others
are so strong in their conviction, I double dare challenge you all to go
up to your child/ren's teacher tomorrow and tell him/her you have
absolutely zero obligation to help out the schools. And if you don't take
up the challenge, what do you make of your conviction then?

This was originally a response to someone else, but it fits much better
here.

The big thing in UK schools at the moment is the production of "home-school
agreements", which basically set out the obligations of the child, the
school and the family.

I've just dug ours out from last year, but there are several on the web as
well, and these ones are short but fairly typical:
http://www.sprotbrough-orchard.donca...ome_school.htm
http://www.riston.eril.net/formal-sc..._agreement.htm

For our local school, the family obligations are to:
- make sure the child arrives at school on time
- make sure the child attends regularly and send a note/telephone if the
child is absent
- attend parent's evenings to dicuss kid's progress
- provide support for homework

There is no mention in any I have seen about the parents helping the school
in any way, other then to back them up in educating the child: the
implied obligation is, as other posters have pointed out, to their child,
not the school.

Other people have said that they choose where they put their volenteer
efforts. When I only had one child at school, I choose to put my
efforts into organisations for pre-school kids, because they were entirely
run by volenteer efforts. The help I gave made a noticeable difference:
literally between keeping the 'parent and toddler group' open and having it
close down.

Personally, I'm really grateful to the two parents who re-started the
cub scout group my son goes to. He gets huge benefits from it, benefits
the school is unable to provide, simply because it is a school. If the
couple felt they had to volenteer at school, and closed the cub group,
the loss to the community would be huge.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three