OT religion and smacking

Sue wrote:
Clisby wrote in message

There are states where public school officials can legally spank your
child without your permission.


Wow Clisby, I am amazed. I didn't think any states in the US could spank so
I looked it up. Sure enough, 23 states are allowed to spank kids in public
schools. ( It said it was mostly in the south in the "bible belt"
states. Geez, that's a shame.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...



Yeah, I remember looking up some of this stuff in relation to a thread
on one of the misc.kids newsgroups not too long ago. If we have the
same list, these states allow spanking:

Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Mississippi
Missouri
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Wyoming

Here in Georgia, a school district that wants to give officials the
option of spanking has to have a written policy on it. So it's possible
there are individual districts in Georgia that ban spanking - I know one
of the districts close to Atlanta was considering that recently. It's
also possible that some districts require parental permission, although
I'd be pretty surprised to hear it. (A child can be exempted from
spanking if the parent gets a doctor to sign a statement that it would
be detrimental to the child's mental or emotional stability.)

Clisby

Cheryl S. wrote:

Out of idle curiosity, what is the penalty for violating this law?

I can think of a really logical one : )

--
tristyn
www.tristyn.net
"i have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.
i do not think that they will sing to me."

Clisby wrote:
Yeah, I remember looking up some of this stuff in relation to a thread
on one of the misc.kids newsgroups not too long ago. If we have the
same list, these states allow spanking:

Whew, Utah's not on there. We've got some laws that strike me as pretty
strange (alcohol legislation, for example), but at least we don't let our
teachers hit our kids : )

--
tristyn
www.tristyn.net
"i have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.
i do not think that they will sing to me."

New York Jen wrote:


I believe that here in the US, if you sign something agreeing to let the
school discipline your child, they are allowed to do so as long as they
don't leave any visible marks on the child. I may have just fabricated
that
in my mind from watching too many television shows, but that's what
sticks
in my mind.


There are states where public school officials can legally spank your
child without your permission.

That's awful! I would be sooooo po'ed if someone touched my child!!



In any case, if ANYONE lays a FINGER on my child, they are going to have
to
respond to one mad as hell momma with flying fists!


Better make sure you don't live in one of those states, then - no point
in you ending up in jail as well as your child being spanked.

Well I'm totally with Jen, I'd be in jail too I guess. How insane is that
law?! We are in the 21st century are we not??? Geez Louise.

Kari

"Kari" wrote in message
...

New York Jen wrote:


I believe that here in the US, if you sign something agreeing to let
the
school discipline your child, they are allowed to do so as long as
they
don't leave any visible marks on the child. I may have just
fabricated
that
in my mind from watching too many television shows, but that's what
sticks
in my mind.


There are states where public school officials can legally spank your
child without your permission.

That's awful! I would be sooooo po'ed if someone touched my child!!



In any case, if ANYONE lays a FINGER on my child, they are going to
have
to
respond to one mad as hell momma with flying fists!


Better make sure you don't live in one of those states, then - no point
in you ending up in jail as well as your child being spanked.

Well I'm totally with Jen, I'd be in jail too I guess. How insane is that
law?! We are in the 21st century are we not??? Geez Louise.

When I was in middle school (6th grade, to be precise), I remember kids
being sent to the principal to be swatted with a paddle. It doesn't seem so
long ago, but of course it was 1979. That was a while ago. This was in
Eastern Washington state.

I confess, we do swat. One swat, with a bare hand on a clothed backside. I
haven't found that screaming in the child's face works any better (and this
is what I have seen, and heard confessed, to be the alternative in a great
many cases. And I don't see why it would *be* any "better" for the child.
HOWEVER I would get all over anybody else who felt it was appropriate to lay
hands on my children, and that includes (and maybe especially) the
grandparerents. I do *not* have a problem with an adult who observes a
behavior problem either pointing it out to my child, or to me - and I know a
lot of parents do - actually I would certainly HOPE that if another adult
saw one of my children do something inappropriate, like shove another child,
etc., that they would intervene and make sure the conflict was resolved, or
make sure I knew about it so I could do so. (Of course, I find my kids obey
complete strangers better than they do me, so they're less likely to repeat
forbidden behavior around a stranger, or their grandparents, than they are
around me.)

I have read a lot of books about discipline without the use of corporal
punishment. I wish I could say they did anything for my family but give me
sullen children who tuned out lectures, who smirked while they repeated the
forbidden action, or who simply ignored us entirely, thus provoking us into
the scream-at-the-child stage. Shrug. Again, I don't see how this is an
improvement over a small pop on the backside, that gets somebody's
attention. Call my behavior inappropriate if you must. But do it after you
walk a few miles in my shoes.

--angela

Chotii writes:

: I have read a lot of books about discipline without the use of corporal
: punishment. I wish I could say they did anything for my family but give me
: sullen children who tuned out lectures, who smirked while they repeated the
: forbidden action, or who simply ignored us entirely, thus provoking us into
: the scream-at-the-child stage. Shrug. Again, I don't see how this is an
: improvement over a small pop on the backside, that gets somebody's
: attention. Call my behavior inappropriate if you must. But do it after you
: walk a few miles in my shoes.

I find it difficult to imagine screaming at a child as an alternative to
spanking, effective or not. IMHO, that is what a child is MOST LIKELY to
tune out. I find that if you get in their face, lower your voice to almost
a whisper, and speak in a firm voice like you *REALLY* mean it, they will
listen.

That said, I am in the "almost never hit" camp. :-) I believe that when
you are hit or bitten, a reflexive hit back in kind and with equal force
is not inappropriate. However, I would not call this discipline, I would
call it self defense. I would also accompany it with a firm "Ouch! That
hurt!" not screamed, but said firmly and with great concern

For real discipline, I have found that time-outs or other revocation of
privileges works quite well, and can get the point across quite effectively,
thank you. I don't think corporal punishment is any more effective for this
kind of thing, and can actually have negative unintended consequences.

Larry

"Clisby" wrote in message
...


Sue wrote:
Clisby wrote in message

There are states where public school officials can legally spank your
child without your permission.


Wow Clisby, I am amazed. I didn't think any states in the US could spank
so
I looked it up. Sure enough, 23 states are allowed to spank kids in
public
schools. ( It said it was mostly in the south in the "bible belt"
states. Geez, that's a shame.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...



Yeah, I remember looking up some of this stuff in relation to a thread
on one of the misc.kids newsgroups not too long ago. If we have the
same list, these states allow spanking:

Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Mississippi
Missouri
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Wyoming


How old is this list? Here in AZ, a teacher was just either put on
administrative leave or terminated for physically reprimanding a child for
speaking Spanish rather than the legislatively mandated English during
class. IIRC, she slapped them on the arm.

Shannon

"Chotii" skrev i en meddelelse
...

"Kari" wrote in message
...

New York Jen wrote:


I believe that here in the US, if you sign something agreeing to let
the
school discipline your child, they are allowed to do so as long as
they
don't leave any visible marks on the child. I may have just
fabricated
that
in my mind from watching too many television shows, but that's what
sticks
in my mind.


There are states where public school officials can legally spank your
child without your permission.

That's awful! I would be sooooo po'ed if someone touched my child!!



In any case, if ANYONE lays a FINGER on my child, they are going to
have
to
respond to one mad as hell momma with flying fists!


Better make sure you don't live in one of those states, then - no
point
in you ending up in jail as well as your child being spanked.

Well I'm totally with Jen, I'd be in jail too I guess. How insane is
that
law?! We are in the 21st century are we not??? Geez Louise.

When I was in middle school (6th grade, to be precise), I remember kids
being sent to the principal to be swatted with a paddle. It doesn't seem
so
long ago, but of course it was 1979. That was a while ago. This was in
Eastern Washington state.

I confess, we do swat. One swat, with a bare hand on a clothed backside. I
haven't found that screaming in the child's face works any better (and
this
is what I have seen, and heard confessed, to be the alternative in a great
many cases. And I don't see why it would *be* any "better" for the
child.

A child that is hit is taught that it is an OK way of solving disagreements.
Would you accept the same behaviour from you DH (that he hit you - only with
his bare hand on your clothed backside, but taking into account how bigger
his hand is and how much stronger than you he is)?

In my country it is illegal - even when done by parents. It has been 40
years since a teacher could hit a child in any school in Denmark

Tine, Denmark

Angela,


I just want to suggest something we have tried lately that has worked
wonders for my 4 year old dd. I keep a chart of the things I want her
to do and not do, and she gets stars for doing/not doing what she's
supposed to. After 4 days of at least 80% stars, she gets a toy or a
video. One of the things on the chart is "do what you are told" which
catches all the unique things that come up.

I have tried many things including a bit of spanking. For us spanking
worked better than time outs, but not as good as the chart of stars.
The other thing that I thought worked much better than most was
telling her I would take away her favorite blanket for awhile. She is
very attached to it.

I got both the chart idea and the take away what they care about idea
from dr phil.

KC


"Chotii" wrote in message . ..
I have read a lot of books about discipline without the use of corporal
punishment. I wish I could say they did anything for my family but give me
sullen children who tuned out lectures, who smirked while they repeated the
forbidden action, or who simply ignored us entirely, thus provoking us into
the scream-at-the-child stage. Shrug. Again, I don't see how this is an
improvement over a small pop on the backside, that gets somebody's
attention. Call my behavior inappropriate if you must. But do it after you
walk a few miles in my shoes.

--angela

Jennifer from Colorado wrote:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:05:52 -0700, "iphigenia"
wrote:


Clisby wrote:

Yeah, I remember looking up some of this stuff in relation to a thread
on one of the misc.kids newsgroups not too long ago. If we have the
same list, these states allow spanking:

Whew, Utah's not on there. We've got some laws that strike me as pretty
strange (alcohol legislation, for example), but at least we don't let our
teachers hit our kids : )


And the state I teach in *is* on the list, but I'm fairly certain I'd
lose my job if I hit a kid--even if the parents said I could.

Sadly, more than one parent has told me something along the lines of
"If the little s--- mouths off, smack him." Complete with expletive.
In front of said kid. I teach 7th grade.


Jennifer from Colorado (who always takes plenty of "what not to do"
notes at parent teacher conferences)
edd 3/15/04

I didn't see any site that gave a good description of each state's laws,
but it wouldn't surprise me if a number of them are like Georgia's - the
law isn't blanket permission for any public school teacher to spank
children; it says the local school district can allow it (or, obviously,
forbid it.) I don't even know what the Atlanta district's policy is -
my daughter goes to a private school that doesn't allow spanking.

Clisby