Homework for a 5 year old - how much involvement needed.

In article .com,
"Barbara" wrote:

I don't understand the concept of getting ready for 3rd and 4th grade
homework in kindy and 1st grade. But that's just me. (Or then it isn't since
I've seen such articles on the 'net).

My feeling is that kids need to practice what they've learned. I just
don't think it's unreasonable to ask a kid to do ten math problems,

@ 2 mins ea that's 20 mins....

write sentences using his spelling words,

.... assuming 20 words that's probably another 20-30 mins...

read a paragraph and answer a couple of questions about it,

....say another 10 mins...

50-60 mins of "reinforcement" seems to me a bit much for Grade 3-4 (here, that
would be 8-9yos -- I think I was doing about 30 mins at that age), and that's
assuming the child finds these things -- and the writing -- easy. I still
remember sobbing over my 3* and 4* tables in 3rd grade, and other kids were
probably sobbing over the word list at that time (I was a big reader and I
don't remember ever seeing an unfamiliar word on a spelling list).

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"In Melbourne there is plenty of vigour and eagerness, but there is
nothing worth being eager or vigorous about."
Francis Adams, The Australians, 1893.

Mary Ann wrote:

I think it depends on the child. If he is able to complete work himself
and you are both
happy with what he produces then he doesn't need to be helped. However,
if he needs encouragement to sit down and focus on a single task then
you'll need to sit with him while he
learns to work independently.

It also depends on his level of perfection. Some children may be keen
to get apsolutely everything correct and beautiful. Some may be able to
do this, while others may find it very frustrating and may need you to
step in to point out that they've done well or worked on a task long
enough.

It also depends on the school policy. Do they expect perfect work, or
at this stage are they more keen to see that the child has spent 30
minutes working on something independently?

My son is 6. At this age I think learning homework practices is more
important than the actual work he's doing. I want him to learn that
it's important he sits somewhere quietly and spends some time focussing
on the work. So, we decide when the homework will be done, sit together
and read through the task then discuss how it will be done. Some work
requires me to sit with him, while other tasks he can do himself. But I
always ask him whether he'd like me to help.
I don't want him to sit struggling while I'm cooking dinner, but want
him to know that I'm there 100% if he needs me. When he's finished I
praise him, then depending on what the task is I either ask him whether
he'd like me to show where he's made a mistake or I tell him I'm going
to go over it with him (say if it's a task I know he finds
challenging). I make sure he knows that I think he's done a great job,
but that his teacher will be even more pleased if she can see that he's
worked that extra bit harder to get it right.
I always note down when I've helped him so his teacher knows how much
input I've given.

And this is precisely why homework at this age is
such a bad thing. On the one hand, he's only six and he
probably does need substantial assistance to plan a time
to do homework, get all the resources together, figure out
what needs to be done, and do it (not to mention finding
the energy to focus after a long day at school). On the
other hand, you're setting yourself up for years and years
of being that involved with homework, which can easily
eat you alive with multiple school-aged children who
each have more and more homework every year. It's not
so much fun when you feel like you're in school all over
again. And all for something that hasn't been shown to
provide one jot of benefit.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Hi --

My opinion on homework for kindy is that you should be vigilant about
helping your child hold the pencil correctly, since once that develops
as a bad habit it can take (literally) YEARS to break. And I'm finding
that many teachers just don't have the resources to check this for every
child.

The other useful homework is 20 minutes/day of free reading. DO help
your child on this one if your child needs help. Otherwise, just keep
an eye on what your child likes to read. (It makes gift times so much
easier if you know what they've already read!)

My two cents,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

Beth Kevles wrote:

The other useful homework is 20 minutes/day of free reading. DO help
your child on this one if your child needs help. Otherwise, just keep
an eye on what your child likes to read. (It makes gift times so much
easier if you know what they've already read!)

Yet another unintended consequence of too much
homework in the early grades. Kids don't read for
pleasure when they've had a full day of school followed
by wrestling through lots of homework. For many kids,
their mental energy is *gone* by that time.

Best wishes,
Ericka

In article , Ericka Kammerer says...

Beth Kevles wrote:

The other useful homework is 20 minutes/day of free reading. DO help
your child on this one if your child needs help. Otherwise, just keep
an eye on what your child likes to read. (It makes gift times so much
easier if you know what they've already read!)

Yet another unintended consequence of too much
homework in the early grades. Kids don't read for
pleasure when they've had a full day of school followed
by wrestling through lots of homework. For many kids,
their mental energy is *gone* by that time.


I think that's partly what happened with my son. He also manifest some vision
problems at that time that changed rapidly at first and coudn't be completely
corrected.

But mainly I think it just made school No Fun, being something that affected
every other area of life - he wasn't one to just sit down and do the work in
those famous 10 mintues per grade, it would be about half the evening, and it
was like he couldn't get away from school. (And, yes, we did everything as far
as promoting a good study atmosphere - there's not always some presto-chango
thing that will fix this!)

There are a lot of parents who deal with this by actually doing the homework or
coaching them closely through it (kids being scribe, mainly). Which is also
counterproductive. And not just to their child, also to the educational
atmosphere as a whole. But they're motivated mainly by wanting to maintain some
kind of family life.

Banty

"Beth Kevles" wrote in message
...

Hi --

My opinion on homework for kindy is that you should be vigilant about
helping your child hold the pencil correctly, since once that develops
as a bad habit it can take (literally) YEARS to break. And I'm finding
that many teachers just don't have the resources to check this for every
child.

The other useful homework is 20 minutes/day of free reading. DO help
your child on this one if your child needs help. Otherwise, just keep
an eye on what your child likes to read. (It makes gift times so much
easier if you know what they've already read!)
20 minutes a day? Do you mean a week? I think getting a 5yo to read for 20
minutes each day is going to discourage an awful lot. If they want to then
fine, but 20 minutes is a long time for a new reader to read. Certainly #1
finds reading very tiring, and she's a pretty good reader for her age.
Debbie

"Welches" wrote in message
...

"Beth Kevles" wrote in message
...

Hi --

My opinion on homework for kindy is that you should be vigilant about
helping your child hold the pencil correctly, since once that develops
as a bad habit it can take (literally) YEARS to break. And I'm finding
that many teachers just don't have the resources to check this for every
child.

The other useful homework is 20 minutes/day of free reading. DO help
your child on this one if your child needs help. Otherwise, just keep
an eye on what your child likes to read. (It makes gift times so much
easier if you know what they've already read!)
20 minutes a day? Do you mean a week? I think getting a 5yo to read for 20
minutes each day is going to discourage an awful lot. If they want to then
fine, but 20 minutes is a long time for a new reader to read. Certainly #1
finds reading very tiring, and she's a pretty good reader for her age.

At age 5, it should be reading to/with your child for 20 minutes a day.
Honestly, as long as your child will sit still for it, reading aloud to them
is one of the best things you can do, and is arguably more helpful for a
struggling reader than forcing them to read for that 20 minutes, because it
exposes them to the benefits of reading books at their interest level, not
reading level.


Debbie

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Beth Kevles wrote:

The other useful homework is 20 minutes/day of free reading. DO help
your child on this one if your child needs help. Otherwise, just keep
an eye on what your child likes to read. (It makes gift times so much
easier if you know what they've already read!)

Yet another unintended consequence of too much
homework in the early grades. Kids don't read for
pleasure when they've had a full day of school followed
by wrestling through lots of homework. For many kids,
their mental energy is *gone* by that time.

Hmmm...Given that their mental energy is *gone*, though, does this also
mean that having kids then take dancing/karate/soccer practice/cub
scouts after school is also not a good idea? All of these require some
mental focus, too.

I think that 20 minutes of free reading -- or having a parent read to a
kid for 20 minutes -- is not that onerous, IMO. The only activity I can
think of for someone whose mental energy is *gone* -- an entirely
passive activity that requires zilch on the part of the participant --
is watching television, which I'm pretty sure isn't what you're
suggesting.

Caledonia

Chookie wrote:
In article .com,
"Barbara" wrote:
SNIP
My feeling is that kids need to practice what they've learned. I just
don't think it's unreasonable to ask a kid to do ten math problems,

@ 2 mins ea that's 20 mins....

If it is taking your first grader 2 minutes to answer 1+3, then its
signaling you that there's a problem that you need to address. They're
not doing calculus, you know. I'd give it 20 to 30 SECONDS each,
making it about 4 minutes.

write sentences using his spelling words,

... assuming 20 words that's probably another 20-30 mins...

Gosh, let's assume 500 words, then its HOURS of homework! I've never
seen a 20 word spelling list yet, and One is in 3d grade. In general,
there are 10 words, plus 4 *challenge* words that they can *choose* to
learn. That's been the case since 1st grade. And since I've always
been able to find his spelling lists all over the 'net (and this year
found a school that connects games like hangman to every list -- One
enjoys playing them), I assume its a fairly widely-used spelling
curriculum.

read a paragraph and answer a couple of questions about it,

...say another 10 mins...

50-60 mins of "reinforcement" seems to me a bit much for Grade 3-4 (here, that
would be 8-9yos -- I think I was doing about 30 mins at that age), and that's
assuming the child finds these things -- and the writing -- easy. I still
remember sobbing over my 3* and 4* tables in 3rd grade, and other kids were
probably sobbing over the word list at that time (I was a big reader and I
don't remember ever seeing an unfamiliar word on a spelling list).

But you're assuming that the kids get all of the work on the same
night, which isn't the case.

One is in third grade. In general, his homework is: (1) 4 page
spelling package, given out Monday to be handed in Thursday -- may
include fill in the blank, sentences, or creative writing (I wasn't
really quite sure what to do about One's story about a carjacker this
week!); (2) one or two pages of math -- short word problems, etc.; (3)
read at least 10 minutes in English; (4) science -- once a week, one
week to complete; (5) Hebrew reading; (6) one or two pages of Hebrew
work; and (7) study for English and Hebrew spelling tests. Leaving out
the time that he whines and moans about the fact that he's not allowed
to watch TV until homework is done, and remembering that he has serious
learning disabilities (including word-retrieval difficulties) that make
a lot of this difficult for him, I'd put it at maybe an hour a night.
For a kid without disabilities, a bit less. Now, I do think its a bit
excessive, but that's more because of the dual curriculum than anything
else. At a regular single-curriculum school, cut that in half.

In first grade, it was more like: (a) read a couple sentences out loud
in Hebrew; (b) practice writing letters in Hebrew; (c) once a week,
read a short story -- maybe 3 paragraphs in Hebrew -- and answer
questions about it; (d) short math sheet with a few problems; (e)
something to reinforce reading or spelling; and (f) read 10 minutes.
Except for (c), I'd say it would take the typical kid 10 minutes for
English (well, plus reading), 10 minutes for Hebrew. Which left him
plenty of time to participate in basketball, baseball, karate, chess
club, gym night, random free play, AND to watch far too much TV.
Hardly evil, cruel or a disaster, IMHO.

And sometimes, homework if even fun. In second grade, map-reading
skills were reinforced by a homework assignment to draw a map of the
child's bedroom.

I have to believe that if a kid is crying about homework, it means the
child didn't learn it in school, and it's therefore important for the
parent to know that so action can be taken -- extra help from parents,
retaining a tutor, or just letting the teacher know that the child is
struggling. I guess I find it difficult to believe that you were
crying about your 3 and 4 tables (multiplication?) at home, but
whizzing through them and getting straight A's at school. Our take is
that tears end homework -- if it's that much of a struggle, if you
really don't get the material, we'll let your teacher know so she can
help.

Barbara

Caledonia wrote:

Hmmm...Given that their mental energy is *gone*, though, does this
also mean that having kids then take dancing/karate/soccer
practice/cub scouts after school is also not a good idea? All of
these require some mental focus, too.

I think it really depends on the kid. My oldest son expends a lot of mental
energy in school. More then some. We tried soccer when he was in kindy.
It didn't go over so well. He wanted to come home and play and just relax
at home. He is in 1st grade this year and in cub scouts. I haven't pushed
a lot of the 'at home' things of cubscouts because he needs a lot of down
time to play and fight with his brother :-) He wants to take swimming
lessons this spring and I'll probably sign him up because it is a short 6wk
thing but I can already foresee that he'll be a bit over booked with two
activities plus school. My second son is quite different and I think he'll
be fine. He doesn't have to expend the same amount of mental
focus/intensity/energy as Hunter does for lots of things though.

I think that 20 minutes of free reading -- or having a parent read to
a kid for 20 minutes -- is not that onerous, IMO.

I could read to Hunter 1/2 the night and it wouldn't exhaust him I'll admit.
He enjoys it. If he has to read, that is another story.

The only activity I
can think of for someone whose mental energy is *gone* -- an entirely
passive activity that requires zilch on the part of the participant --
is watching television

Hunter likes to play, be outside, ride his bike, anything that has no rules
or expectations. It isn't that his brain is mush at the end of the day but
the intensity of performing and listening has just worn him out so he wants
to not be rushed, not perform, and not have to listen. By listen I don't
mean he ignores rules but that he doesn't have to concentrate and figure out
what is expected of him or learn something etc. He's also a bit of an
introvert and needs time away from groups. He'd probably benefit from time
completely alone in his room playing without his brother but he isn't quite
self aware enough at this point to go for that very often.

--
Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
EDD 4/06