Homework for a 5 year old - how much involvement needed.

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
lenny fackler wrote:

I'm not sure what you're imagining here for what a 5 or 6 year old does
for homework. In the case of my kindergartener it's usually a couple
of worksheets where he practices writing a certain letter or number or
some type of picture matching game, etc. I don't consider the
planning, materials, or time involved to be substantial.

But consider what it's like down the road when
you've got a 1st grader, a 3rd grader, and a 5th grader.
Believe me, it's a lot.

Are you in the US and is your experience typical of US school?
In your shoes I could imagine that 1st grader not getting much
homework, but needed quite a bit of guidance, the 3rd grader getting a
little more, but needing less guidance and the 5th grader needing
little or no guidance. If you're finding that you're spending all
evening helping all three of them with little time for anything else
then I think your school homework policy need revising. I would
certainly not be happy with that at all.

I enjoy the
opportunity to see what's he's been learning and to provide a bit of
one on one guidance if necessary.

Mary Ann

Banty wrote:

Doesn't work that way.

They do really require that homework be handed in.**So*about*the*best*you
can*do is to slough off on the assignment and turn in a poor product.**But
there*are two problem with that:

1. My son wanted to do a decent job.**Letter*grade*or*no.
2. Is this something I'd ever want to teach anyway??!?**(Even*skippin*the
homework?)

What really bugged me about 4yo homework (yes, we had it then) was that
the teacher never marked it, or provided any feedback at all.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:28:05 GMT, dragonlady
wrote:

In article ,
Nan wrote:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:44:48 -0800, "Circe" wrote:

My kids' report cards since K have had the equivalent of letter grades for
all academic marks: a 4 is Advanced (an A), a 3 is Proficient (a B), 2 is
Basic and 1 is Below Basic. The options of Outstanding, Satisfactory and
Needs Improvement are only available for citizenship/effort scores. Just
because they aren't letters doesn't make them any less "grades". I think
they switch over to the letter grade system in middle school, but they've
been getting them since the beginning.

I have to admit we haven't seen a grade for my dd in K yet, so I'm
unsure how our elementary school does this.

My thinking is that until the letter grades are being given and
actually *count*, then what's the big deal with not enforcing the
homework you disagree with?

Well, for starters, it may be teaching your child that it is perfectly okay
not to do assigned work if your don't agreee with it. I think that could
have some pretty negative consequences when it comes to convincing the child
that *school*work needs to be completed, let alone homework.

Yes, I can see how that would be a possible drawback. However, for
those parents complaining that homework is proven to be useless at
these grade levels, and how it interferes with their family life, it
could be a possible solution.
Until the grade actually means something, I don't get the push to
enforce it.

Nan


Unfortunately, they then get set up to think that it's OK to ignore what
the teachers want them to do.

As far as I'm concerned, for at least some percentage of the kids,
homework in the early elementary grades is a lose/lose proposition. You
can fight over getting it done (accomplishing nothing academically and
making a mess out of your evenings at home, but keeping the teacher
happy) or you can allow your child to NOT do it (making your home life
happier, but having your child be "in trouble" at school with the
teacher -- and setting them up for future problems because they think
it's OK to ignorehomework).

Okay, so it's a "bite the bullet and vent about it" issue, then.

Nan

On 10 Nov 2005 11:33:52 -0800, Banty wrote:

In article , Nan says...

On 10 Nov 2005 09:10:50 -0800, Banty wrote:


My son had to write a weekly composition in 3rd grade. If you think they're all
playing hangman, maybe that's why you don't get why this is a problem.

Okay, now I'm wondering.... when are letter grades being given to the
kids? I never received a letter grade until Jr. High (Middle School),
and I don't think my ds did, either. I recall his "report cards"
having the options of Satisfactory, Unsatisfactory, and Needs
Improvement (although I'm not sure what the difference between
Unsatisfactory and Needs Improvement would be!).

My thinking is that until the letter grades are being given and
actually *count*, then what's the big deal with not enforcing the
homework you disagree with? I always saw the report card as nothing
more than a tool to let me see if there are areas my ds needed help
in, and not much more than that.

Doesn't work that way.

They do really require that homework be handed in. So about the best you can do
is to slough off on the assignment and turn in a poor product. But there are
two problem with that:

1. My son wanted to do a decent job. Letter grade or no.
2. Is this something I'd ever want to teach anyway??!? (Even skippin the
homework?)

Banty

I don't think my 5 year old would care, but she probably would as she
gets older.

Nan

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 16:29:00 -0500, Ericka Kammerer
wrote:

Nan wrote:
On 10 Nov 2005 09:10:50 -0800, Banty wrote:



My son had to write a weekly composition in 3rd grade. If you think they're all
playing hangman, maybe that's why you don't get why this is a problem.


Okay, now I'm wondering.... when are letter grades being given to the
kids? I never received a letter grade until Jr. High (Middle School),
and I don't think my ds did, either. I recall his "report cards"
having the options of Satisfactory, Unsatisfactory, and Needs
Improvement (although I'm not sure what the difference between
Unsatisfactory and Needs Improvement would be!).

Here, the A/B/C/D/F grades start in 4th grade. Below
that, they use O(utstanding)/G(ood)/S(atisfactory)/N(eeds
Improvement). However, the kids all figure out that
A=O, B=G, C=S, and N=D/F very quickly.

My thinking is that until the letter grades are being given and
actually *count*, then what's the big deal with not enforcing the
homework you disagree with? I always saw the report card as nothing
more than a tool to let me see if there are areas my ds needed help
in, and not much more than that.

Do you have a kid who would actually be willing to
go into school without his homework or get bad grades?
Mine sure as heck don't want to be the kid who comes in
without homework and gets bad grades as a result. It's
not like the only consequences is a grade they can ignore
if they choose. All their peers are turning in the homework.

Yes, I can see where that would be a problem if the teacher is really
focused on passing out homework.

Nan

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:17:53 GMT, Nan wrote:



Yes, I can see how that would be a possible drawback. However, for
those parents complaining that homework is proven to be useless at
these grade levels, and how it interferes with their family life, it
could be a possible solution.
Until the grade actually means something, I don't get the push to
enforce it.

Nan

Too me t hat's inconsistent and confusion.

So just because its worth a grade instead of basic learning, the kid
doesnt have to do the work???

And how do you explain to the child why the homework is "important"
this year and it wasn't last year?

I am not a big believer in homework at the younger grades but I am a
big believer in consisten attitudes from parents and a big
non-believer in total concentration on grades.

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:38:18 GMT, dragonlady
wrote:

In article . com,
"Barbara" wrote:

I have to believe that if a kid is crying about homework, it means the
child didn't learn it in school, and it's therefore important for the
parent to know that so action can be taken -- extra help from parents,
retaining a tutor, or just letting the teacher know that the child is
struggling. I guess I find it difficult to believe that you were
crying about your 3 and 4 tables (multiplication?) at home, but
whizzing through them and getting straight A's at school. Our take is
that tears end homework -- if it's that much of a struggle, if you
really don't get the material, we'll let your teacher know so she can
help.

Or he or she is crying becauee they already know the work and did it
too many times.

Many children actually do better working only in school. Fortunately
my child still did not get much homework at the early grades. In high
school he still stays after school or does his homework in school (hes
on t he modular two day schedule system)

And some kids simply work better for others than their parents.Just as
my son will help his friends mom clean up the house, but come home to
me and drop his shoes in the middle of the floor

On 10 Nov 2005 06:13:54 -0800, "Caledonia"
wrote:


Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Beth Kevles wrote:

The other useful homework is 20 minutes/day of free reading. DO help
your child on this one if your child needs help. Otherwise, just keep
an eye on what your child likes to read. (It makes gift times so much
easier if you know what they've already read!)

Yet another unintended consequence of too much
homework in the early grades. Kids don't read for
pleasure when they've had a full day of school followed
by wrestling through lots of homework. For many kids,
their mental energy is *gone* by that time.

Hmmm...Given that their mental energy is *gone*, though, does this also
mean that having kids then take dancing/karate/soccer practice/cub
scouts after school is also not a good idea? All of these require some
mental focus, too.

However they are at least equally physical activites which homework is
hot. I do not want my child sitting at a table or desk more when they
come home. Whether its running outside or taking ballet or tap or
whatever I want my kid moving.

Kids need at leat an hour of good physical exercise most days,a nd I
dunno about you, but mine dont get it from school.

I think that 20 minutes of free reading -- or having a parent read to a
kid for 20 minutes -- is not that onerous, IMO. The only activity I can
think of for someone whose mental energy is *gone* -- an entirely
passive activity that requires zilch on the part of the participant --
is watching television, which I'm pretty sure isn't what you're
suggesting.

Caledonia

I agree with free reading or reading aloud. I dont agree with
demanding reading for a certain amount of time daily. Modeling works
much better

On 10 Nov 2005 12:02:26 -0800, "Caledonia"
wrote:



I mean, for pete's sake, the whole point of practicing soccer is to
improve (ditto piano, dance, karate) -- so why is it so crazy to have
kids also practice some of what they've covered in school? Is it
because organized/structured physical activities (and yep, I'm
stressing the 'organized/structured laden with rules' activities,
because I'm all for letting kids run around in the yard and make up
their own rules) somehow addresses another part of their development,
the part that's okay to devote hours to practicing? Grr.

In most American schools, children have already practiced those skills
as part of the school curriculum, at least through, say fifth grade
maybe? It s repititive and uncessary.

By the time my kid got to middle school he was getting to the point
where the teacher assigned a reading and/or assignment, the kids did
it and then came in an asked for help afterwards if needed.

But that doesnt happen until the late elementary school level.

Barb

"Caledonia" wrote in message
oups.com...

Banty wrote:
In article .com,
Caledonia
says...


Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Beth Kevles wrote:

The other useful homework is 20 minutes/day of free reading. DO
help
your child on this one if your child needs help. Otherwise, just
keep
an eye on what your child likes to read. (It makes gift times so
much
easier if you know what they've already read!)

Yet another unintended consequence of too much
homework in the early grades. Kids don't read for
pleasure when they've had a full day of school followed
by wrestling through lots of homework. For many kids,
their mental energy is *gone* by that time.

Hmmm...Given that their mental energy is *gone*, though, does this also
mean that having kids then take dancing/karate/soccer practice/cub
scouts after school is also not a good idea? All of these require some
mental focus, too.

But these things are quite different and really don't call on the same
kind of
focus. They're a big change of pace from the schooling activities.

Too true -- and I was bringing these up in a devil's advocate fashion.

It seems to me (IRL) that having little kids participate in an
organized/structured physical activity (versus just walking, playing
kick the can, playing on the monkey bars, etc.) is socially lauded --
even with the attendant practices that these activities require. (For
the first grade soccer league in town, it's 2 weekly practices of 45
minutes each plus 1weekly game lasting ~ 1 hour.) Yet suggest 90
minutes of homework per week, and some people think that the school
system has gone too far....

I mean, for pete's sake, the whole point of practicing soccer is to
improve (ditto piano, dance, karate) -- so why is it so crazy to have
kids also practice some of what they've covered in school? Is it
because organized/structured physical activities (and yep, I'm
stressing the 'organized/structured laden with rules' activities,
because I'm all for letting kids run around in the yard and make up
their own rules) somehow addresses another part of their development,
the part that's okay to devote hours to practicing? Grr.

That bugs me as well. I'm a music teacher, and while parents complain that
their child doesn't like to practice, and it's a pain to make them do it,
I've never heard anyone say that a child doesn't need to practice music, or
that practicing for the 30 minutes a day we ask of our beginning students is
unreasonable. Parents are constantly pushing to get their children into the
instrumental program even as toddlers and preschoolers. Yet, ask a child to
practice school skills, several years later is too much. Why do parents not
object to being told that their child needs to practice music (and listen to
the home CD) to learn music, but see reading for 20 minutes a night with/to
your child as intrusive?