Good child (small adult) bicycle

In article ,
Jeanne wrote:

dragonlady wrote:


Not every kid IS a "would be cyclist", nor is it necessary for every kid
to be one. For kids who are likely to just tool around the neighborhood
a bit, the cheap ones work fine.

As has been pointed out, you can't go high end on everything.

What's with the hyperbole? Who said anything about high end? I'm not
looking for a $1000 bicycle for my daughter (which by the way is
"moderate" in the bicycling world). I'm looking for a decent bicycle. I
understand there are different standards for different people - to you
maybe spending $300 is "high-end" but to me it's pretty much
entry-level. Unless we're talking used, I think most bikes under $200
(usually sold in TRU or Target or Walmart) are worse than no bike at
all. They are hard to pedal, impossible to change parts and very heavy
with the bonus of usually be incorrectly assembled.

When I was 8, my parents bought me a Raleigh bicycle. Nothing fancy but
it was a good bicycle that lasted and served me well. I'm looking for
the same thing for my daughter.

Trust me, we are NOT talking high-end anything.

You are talking higher end than *I* wanted to spend, and the bikes I
bought on sale at Target worked fine.

With 3 kids, $300 bikes runs to almost $1000 -- that's a lot of money.

--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

dragonlady wrote:


You are talking higher end than *I* wanted to spend, and the bikes I
bought on sale at Target worked fine.

With 3 kids, $300 bikes runs to almost $1000 -- that's a lot of money.


Uhm, okay. I wasn't asking you to buy all 3 kids bicycles at one time.
FWIW, DS will get DD's old bike when he gets older and eventually DD
will get one of my old bikes. So, I'm not talking about buying everyone
new bicycles either.

"Buck" wrote in message
ups.com...
Jeff wrote:
I would be surprised to learn that the materials for the same model of
bike
are different materials for a specialty shop bike and a department store
bike. I have a department store bike, and it doesn't rust. It is made of
an
alloy (or maybe alluminum). Of course, a bike bought at a box store may
be
made of cheaper materials than at a specialty store, but it will be a
different model.

Please put your surprised face on because what I wrote is the truth. As
an adult, it is likely that you don't leave your bicycle in conditions
which facilitate rust. You should also note that it is not the frame
which rusts (frames are often made from aluminum even in the department
store) , it is the parts attached to the frame. Where the bits and
pieces on my bikes are stainless steel or aluminum, those same pieces
on the department store bikes are not. Yes, that equates to cheaper
materials which are prone to rusting. Our local Wal-mart stores some of
its bicycles outside. A few days in the weather and the *brand new*
bikes already have rust.

Walmart is famous for selling cheaper-made goods than the same brand at
another store.

For most of the readers of the misc.kid news group, a department store
bike
will be as good as a specialty shop bike. For readers of the
rec.bicycles.misc, I would think that a specialty shop bicycle would be
worth the extra money.

It matters not where you read these postings. Ignorance is behind the
assumption that all bicycles are created equal. I would hope that the
cross-posting of this thread would enlighten the readers of misc.kids
and encourage them to purchase a bicycle that will fit better, ride
better, and last longer than the department store junk. As a nation,
the U.S. is concerned about obesity. Yet parents are willing to spend
much more on a video game that will encourage their children to park in
front of the television than on a bicycle which will encourage fitness.
It just seems backwards. By the way, my own children would rather go
for a ride or play in the pool than sit and watch TV.

By the same logic, parents should spend more on sports socks than on a video
game.

I don't think of a bicycle as a toy either. But, that doesn't mean that I
would benefit from a specialty shop bike over a department store bike,
either.

Perhaps you wouldn't benefit from a quality bicycle. But I'd bet that
you do prefer some specialty items over the generic. Perhaps you have a
Toyota instead of a Kia. Maybe it is an Onkyo instead of a Pioneer. The
members of rec.bicycles.misc recognize that a Trek is better than a
Pacific and understand why. You either don't understand why or don't
ride enough to see the difference.

Correct. But, the question for each parent is, "Will my child ride enough
for the child to benefit from the difference to make the cost worth it?" I
would think for the majority of parents, the answer is that the department
store bike is more than good enough.

Jeff

-Buck

In article ,
Jeanne wrote:

dragonlady wrote:


You are talking higher end than *I* wanted to spend, and the bikes I
bought on sale at Target worked fine.

With 3 kids, $300 bikes runs to almost $1000 -- that's a lot of money.


Uhm, okay. I wasn't asking you to buy all 3 kids bicycles at one time.
FWIW, DS will get DD's old bike when he gets older and eventually DD
will get one of my old bikes. So, I'm not talking about buying everyone
new bicycles either.


Only works if the kids aren't the same age. Yes, I could have gotten #1
a bike and handed it down to ONE of her siblings, at which point I would
have been able to buy "only" two more at one time (one for #1 and one
for her other sibling). That's "only" $600 -- and a cost that has to be
repeated as the kids get older and outgrow their bikes. (Actually, we
DID hand bikes down, and bought used ones when we could find them -- but
cheap used ones.)

Look, I don't object to other people spending that kind of money -- if
you have it, and if your family plans on doing a lot of biking, it makes
sense.

However, for us, the choice was NOT between $70 bikes and $300 bikes --
it was between $70 bikes or NO bikes. Perhaps your position is that NO
bike is better than a cheap one.

I'm telling you that the cheap ones worked OK for my kids, and met their
needs.

You are, perhaps, telling me that

--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

In article ,
Jeanne wrote:

dragonlady wrote:


You are talking higher end than *I* wanted to spend, and the bikes I
bought on sale at Target worked fine.

With 3 kids, $300 bikes runs to almost $1000 -- that's a lot of money.


Uhm, okay. I wasn't asking you to buy all 3 kids bicycles at one time.
FWIW, DS will get DD's old bike when he gets older and eventually DD
will get one of my old bikes. So, I'm not talking about buying everyone
new bicycles either.


Only works if the kids aren't the same age. Yes, I could have gotten #1
a bike and handed it down to ONE of her siblings, at which point I would
have been able to buy "only" two more at one time (one for #1 and one
for her other sibling). That's "only" $600 -- and a cost that has to be
repeated as the kids get older and outgrow their bikes. (Actually, we
DID hand bikes down, and bought used ones when we could find them -- but
cheap used ones.)

Look, I don't object to other people spending that kind of money -- if
you have it, and if your family plans on doing a lot of biking, it makes
sense.

However, for us, the choice was NOT between $70 bikes and $300 bikes --
it was between $70 bikes or NO bikes. Perhaps your position is that NO
bike is better than a cheap one.

I'm telling you that the cheap ones worked OK for my kids, and met their
needs.

You are, perhaps, telling me that NO bike at all is better than a cheap
one. I suspect my kids would disagree.

--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Jeanne wrote:

I thought about this after reading some of the posts. I would *never*
spend $300 on a XBOX or gameboy and games (I have absolutely no idea how
much these things cost so excuse the ignorance on pricing here) - I feel
it an incredible waste of money. But I think $300 is a perfectly
reasonable amount on a bicycle - actually it would be incredibly *low*
on an adult bicycle for me or DH. As a grad student, I spent $900 on a
new Bianchi bicycle in 1996 (not to worry, it was totally my money - no
student loans). Same amount of money but absolutely different reaction
depending on the item.

I think the point I've been trying to make is that it's
not about the *item*. It's about the use to which you would put
the item, and how valuable that is to you, personally, in your
specific situation. It's not about how much money, per se.
It's about the value you get from what you've bought. Some
folks get a lot of value out of a bike, even if it puts a dent
in their bank account. Others don't get much value out of it
regardless of how much it costs. I think it's important in
life to figure out how to align your expenditures with your
values and priorities. It may be hard to believe for those
who are passionate about cycling, but there exist those odd
folks who just don't get much value out of a bike of any
sort, yet might still want one for occasional use ;-) Of
course, there are folks out there who don't like chocolate.
If *that* can happen, pretty much anything is fair game ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Jeff" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Buck" wrote in message
ups.com...
Jeff wrote:
I would be surprised to learn that the materials for the same model of
bike
are different materials for a specialty shop bike and a department store
bike. I have a department store bike, and it doesn't rust. It is made of
an
alloy (or maybe alluminum). Of course, a bike bought at a box store may
be
made of cheaper materials than at a specialty store, but it will be a
different model.

Please put your surprised face on because what I wrote is the truth. As
an adult, it is likely that you don't leave your bicycle in conditions
which facilitate rust. You should also note that it is not the frame
which rusts (frames are often made from aluminum even in the department
store) , it is the parts attached to the frame. Where the bits and
pieces on my bikes are stainless steel or aluminum, those same pieces
on the department store bikes are not. Yes, that equates to cheaper
materials which are prone to rusting. Our local Wal-mart stores some of
its bicycles outside. A few days in the weather and the *brand new*
bikes already have rust.

Walmart is famous for selling cheaper-made goods than the same brand at
another store.

For most of the readers of the misc.kid news group, a department store
bike
will be as good as a specialty shop bike. For readers of the
rec.bicycles.misc, I would think that a specialty shop bicycle would be
worth the extra money.

It matters not where you read these postings. Ignorance is behind the
assumption that all bicycles are created equal. I would hope that the
cross-posting of this thread would enlighten the readers of misc.kids
and encourage them to purchase a bicycle that will fit better, ride
better, and last longer than the department store junk. As a nation,
the U.S. is concerned about obesity. Yet parents are willing to spend
much more on a video game that will encourage their children to park in
front of the television than on a bicycle which will encourage fitness.
It just seems backwards. By the way, my own children would rather go
for a ride or play in the pool than sit and watch TV.

By the same logic, parents should spend more on sports socks than on a
video game.

I don't think of a bicycle as a toy either. But, that doesn't mean that
I
would benefit from a specialty shop bike over a department store bike,
either.

Perhaps you wouldn't benefit from a quality bicycle. But I'd bet that
you do prefer some specialty items over the generic. Perhaps you have a
Toyota instead of a Kia. Maybe it is an Onkyo instead of a Pioneer. The
members of rec.bicycles.misc recognize that a Trek is better than a
Pacific and understand why. You either don't understand why or don't
ride enough to see the difference.

Correct. But, the question for each parent is, "Will my child ride enough
for the child to benefit from the difference to make the cost worth it?" I
would think for the majority of parents, the answer is that the department
store bike is more than good enough.

Jeff

-Buck




You really need to look at the number of lawsuits that have been filed
against the manufacturer and sellers of department store bikes, mainly
because of inferior materials, components and most of all shoddy assembly
practices. There are so many of them that have the forks put on backwards
and have non-working or poorly working brakes.

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...

However, for us, the choice was NOT between $70 bikes and $300 bikes --
it was between $70 bikes or NO bikes. Perhaps your position is that NO
bike is better than a cheap one.

I'd say that a used real bike is better than a new *mart bike, and they'd
cost about the same. My teenaged daughter currently rides a 1986 Specialized
Rock Hopper that probably doesn't have a value over $75 on the used bike
market, but is a great all-rounder bike that's far superior than a
Roadmaster Fury for the same price.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

In article . com,
"Buck" wrote:

Here we
have a bunch of enthusiasts trying to educate a bunch of
non-enthusiasts about the difference between bicycles and
bicycle-shaped toys. One can provide years of enjoyment (even with just
occasional use). The other is destined for the trash.

And what some of us are telling you is that those "bicycle shaped toys"
worked out just fine for our families. Kept in the garage and given
reasonable care, they lasted about as long as they needed to last, and
the kids enjoyed riding them.

And buying used only works well if you are already knowledgeable enough
to know what you are getting. At least where I was at the time, the
"bike shop" used bikes were still really expensive (and they seldom had
kids' sizes), and buying from a stranger -- which we did once -- can
(and did) turn out to be a disaster.

--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
And what some of us are telling you is that those "bicycle shaped toys"
worked out just fine for our families. Kept in the garage and given
reasonable care, they lasted about as long as they needed to last, and
the kids enjoyed riding them.

And buying used only works well if you are already knowledgeable enough
to know what you are getting. At least where I was at the time, the
"bike shop" used bikes were still really expensive (and they seldom had
kids' sizes), and buying from a stranger -- which we did once -- can
(and did) turn out to be a disaster.

I understand where Buck and Jeanne are coming from. You were lucky with
your box store bikes. They very well could have turned out like your buying
from a stranger experience. Just because the bike is shiny when you bring
it home doesn't mean it's properly built. So box store bikes are a gamble,
sometimes they work out great, sometimes they are a disaster. (And if you
have a knowledgable friend, they might be able to at least tell if the bike
is properly assembled.) If you are buy bikes for kids that will just be
puttering around the yard on them it's not that big of a risk, at least
after the first few test rides. If you are buying bikes and sending your
kids on errands or to school, well, look at it from a car analogy. I'm a
worrier. When my daughter got her license the car she is assigned to drive
is newer than mine, (okay, she drives the brand new car) is not as fast, has
more airbags not only than my car, but than any year old car out there (I
think in an accident it puffs up like an egg crate), it has all the safety
devices imaginable. It is also a very, very reliable brand that we know
reliable garages that we can trust to maintain it. So despite the hours of
training and practicing etc in driving, we want her to have a car that is
safe and will get her where she is going. We just are worriers like that,
and are willing to put the money into ensuring she's driving something we
think is safe enough for her. We think the same way about the younger one's
bike. She bikes to school. This year that school is a mile and a half
away. She has a bike that can make that without dropping a chain while
shifting and with brakes that stop fast and reliably and goo and tuffys in
the tires to help stop flats, and lights in case she gets stuck out late. If
she was just riding up and down the street we might not bother, but she is
riding out of our sight, so we want her to be as safe as possible.

Certainly there are kids and parents that aren't interested in their kids
using bikes for anything other than a toy. If you aren't going to take your
kids mountain biking, or road racing or use them for transportation I can
see not wanting to spend money on it. If you look at it like that, it is
no more dangerous than any other thing you sit or ride on that you buy at
the big box stores.