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#11
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fidgety kids
On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 08:03:05 EST, "Chris" wrote:
Jeff wrote: It sounds like he has two problems: 1) He is bored in class. You should talk to his assistant principal or guidence counselor as well as his teachers. His teachers should be giving him work that keeps from being bored. Or he should be going to an advanced class. We have tried, repeatedly, to have him given more challenging work but run into two problems. One, teachers just don't want to do it. Our school really resists anything that looks like ability grouping. There is no real mechanism, other than grade skipping available. I don't know how this works in other countries, but in Canada and in the USA there is legislation about giving each child the education he needs. If a child is tested to be {gifted / learning disabled / handicapped in some other way}, then once a year the school, parents, and child review the IEP (Individual Education Plan), which discusses the recommended accommodations for this child's exceptionalities. They might not always live up to the IEP completely, but it seems a very useful thing to have on one's side. Louise |
#12
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fidgety kids
"Chris" wrote:
Just one comment - well two actually. I know teachers that are unwilling to do anything extra. They may be just lazy, or set in their ways, or it may be that they are overstressed by the climate in the school or by current testing stuff. This may be where you will have to take charge of the boredom problem (Does he say that he is bored? - It sounds like he is.) by asking the teacher how either you or he can help them. Can he tutor the other students? Can he prepare a presentation for the class? That kind of thing. Think of ways that his attention can be engaged in class without any (or very little) teacher input. Ask him what he'd like to find out about in various classes. Instead of asking the teachers to give him extra work, have him suggest extra work that he can do. [When I was in 6th grade, I found that if the teacher thought I knew the answer she wouldn't call on me in class. So I could read a book under my desk with impunity provided that I kept raising my hand to answer questions. Counterwise, if I really wanted to be called on, I had to pretend not to be paying attention.] Jeff wrote: major snippage He should also be outside, playing with his friends, riding his bike, etc., during daylight hours rather than be in the house. He is plenty busy. He doesn't really like too many sports, especially team sports. None of his teachers have ever suggested ADD as a diagnosis, but maybe that's because he doesn't really get in trouble and when a teacher asks I had one like that. Given the additional information you've provided, IMH and completely uninformed O, I don't think that he has ADD either. I think what he needs is not so much a SPORT as an aerobic activity like swimming or running or biking on a regular basis. This would be good for his health and would tend (IME) to calm him down a bit and he could do it more or less alone. grandma Rosalie |
#13
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fidgety kids
"Chris" wrote in message oups.com... Jeff wrote: It sounds like he has two problems: 1) He is bored in class. You should talk to his assistant principal or guidence counselor as well as his teachers. His teachers should be giving him work that keeps from being bored. Or he should be going to an advanced class. We have tried, repeatedly, to have him given more challenging work but run into two problems. One, teachers just don't want to do it. Our school really resists anything that looks like ability grouping. There is no real mechanism, other than grade skipping available. He's already young for his current grade, and I don't really want to have him advanced. Plus, I don't think my son is the only one who could benefit from more challenging work. Second, anytime that more challenging work is given it is usually of the form "write about x." My son really does not like to write, so that never works! Frankly, what incentive do teachers have to tailor their lessons for him? None, except goodwill. During the conference his science teacher said, 'E's test scores were 94, 100, 104, and 98, but the other day when we were working on something I looked over to see E just reading a book." So, to me, as a parent I'm thinking what's the problem here? He clearly knows the material and is choosing to make better use of his time! Why should that bother the teacher? But she sees this as a sign of disrespect. 2) Your son is not able to sit still. He should learn to join the family and eat with the family sitting down. He joins us for dinner and is an "active" participant in the conversation, he'd just rather not sit down! He loves to help cook and prepare meals. Does he sit down at a restaurant or house of worship or college basketball game? He should be recreational activities like reading, listening to music and using the computer sitting down. His recreational use of computers, TV watching and video games should be limited to two hours a day (or even less). He should also be outside, playing with his friends, riding his bike, etc., during daylight hours rather than be in the house. He is a little heavy on the video time, I'll admit. We have talked about limiting that more or using it as a "reward" for good behavior. But, he was elected to student council, was elected treasurer of the 6th grade chorus, has a lead role in the MS musical, is in chorus, band and jazz band, is working on his black belt in TaeKwonDo, plays chess in local and national tournaments, and takes piano lessons. He is plenty busy. He doesn't really like too many sports, especially team sports. None of his teachers have ever suggested ADD as a diagnosis, but maybe that's because he doesn't really get in trouble and when a teacher asks him to stay on task he does, at least for a while. He does not enjoy working in groups--he thinks they slow him down, and he takes a little pride in being different or "quirky." Some teachers like this, others don't. I guess I'm torn between thinking he is just a bright kid who has trouble controlling himself and thinking there are more serious underlying problems. The plot thickens. ADHD was the first thing that popped in my head. It's possible. It might be worth having the school psychologist evaluate him. However, from the acitvities he participates in, it doesn't sound like it. I do think there are underlying problems. From your description, they seem to be mostly with the school. The school and teachers should be doing something called differential education. They should be teaching in such a way that the abilities and interests of all the kids are engaged, not just a few. Clearly, from your description, they aren't doing that. I agree with Laurie about getting an IEP for your son. Sounds like a good idea. However, if you can get him the services he deserves (e.g., gift tutorials), that may also help him stay on task more in the regular classes. I think the school really needs to look at your son as child with abilities to develop, You might also transfer him to another school. But it sounds like you would be giving up too many activities for your son. And private school might not be worth the cost. I bet there is a school of education near where you are. You might even consider hiring some of the students in the school to tutor your son for enrichment classes or something like that. The other thing that might help is to provide him with a system whereby he is rewarded for working in groups. They slow him down. So what? In real life, after school, he will have to work in small groups, whether it is working as a member of a team at Walmart or as a member of thesis committee as a college professor. He may actuallly round out his education by helping the members of his group. He has obviously taken on some leadership roles with larger groups. Doing the same thing with smaller groups may have great benefits, as well. The above paragraph assumes that he isn't doing what he is supposed to do in small groups. He may do what he is supposed to do, but just doesn't like it. Kind of like in real life, too. Jeff It sounds to me that you need to bring the school and teachers in on this one. You probably want to set up a behavioral plan with the help of the school's guidance counseler or AP, his teachers and himself. This plan should have specific rewards as well as expectations. Solving problem #1 should help problem #2, but there seperate problems. Plus, if you live near a major university with a medical school, you might make an appoint with some educational psychologists or pediatric pyschologists for some additional ideas. Jeff Chris |
#14
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fidgety kids
Louise wrote: I don't know how this works in other countries, but in Canada and in the USA there is legislation about giving each child the education he needs. If a child is tested to be {gifted / learning disabled / handicapped in some other way}, then once a year the school, parents, and child review the IEP (Individual Education Plan), which discusses the recommended accommodations for this child's exceptionalities. Unfortunately, this is not always true for gifted children. In the US, a child with a disability is entitled to a Free and Appropriate Public Education by federal law. Giftedness is not considered a disability under this law. A gifted child may or may not have rights under state law, but is entitled to nothing under federal law. Some states write IEPs for gifted, others do not. Especially with the advent of NCLB, many schools do not have the resources to do anything they are not legally required to do for gifted kids, who are already not "left behind" according to that law. Accordingly, many gifted children learn nothing in school, with the full support of the state and the school board and federal law. --Robyn |
#15
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fidgety kids
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#16
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fidgety kids
On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 08:09:27 EST, Louise
wrote: I'm sorry to be wrong, then. And I'm especially sorry for the kids who do get "left behind" because their schools aren't providing appropriate educations for them. It's hard because there isn't enough money given to the schools to differentiate education for everyone. Although I have gifted children, I am more concerned about those who are falling behind. I have told my kids that it is their responsibility to enrich their educational experiences if they are ahead or bored. I work with the teachers on coming up with things they can do that are acceptable to him or her should they be bored. It is easier to entertain yourself quietly than it is to teach yourself math, for example, so if the teacher has to spend more time with the ones who aren't getting it, that's the way it has to be. I think if the OP explained to the teacher that the child wanted to read when bored but that the parent wanted to make sure it was not coming across as disrespectful, they could probably find a way. Anyway, it's a life skill to deal with boredom productively. Who hasn't had to sit quietly and at least seemingly attentively in numerous boring meetings? -- Paula "Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay |
#17
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fidgety kids
Louise wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 08:03:05 EST, "Chris" wrote: Jeff wrote: It sounds like he has two problems: 1) He is bored in class. You should talk to his assistant principal or guidence counselor as well as his teachers. His teachers should be giving him work that keeps from being bored. Or he should be going to an advanced class. We have tried, repeatedly, to have him given more challenging work but run into two problems. One, teachers just don't want to do it. Our school really resists anything that looks like ability grouping. There is no real mechanism, other than grade skipping available. I don't know how this works in other countries, but in Canada and in the USA there is legislation about giving each child the education he needs. I don't know how other states do things, but I know here the goal is 'least restrictive environment' to attain educational goals. If a child is tested to be {gifted / learning disabled / handicapped in some other way}, then once a year the school, parents, and child review the IEP (Individual Education Plan), which discusses the recommended accommodations for this child's exceptionalities. Do they have IEPs for gifted students (w/o disabilities that are impairing their academic progress) where you are? They might not always live up to the IEP completely, but it seems a very useful thing to have on one's side. Actually, the accomodations that are required in the IEP are, afaik, required. It's not a case of 'living up to it' or not. There's a lot of waffling and tossing the funding back-and-forth for out-of-district placements and other high-dollar items, since there's a large price tag associated with these services (e.g., a residential placement can be upwards of $200,000/year for a kid), and many parents (and voters) are unclear that this is mandatory, not an optional service. Caledonia |
#18
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fidgety kids
On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 20:24:22 EST, "Caledonia"
wrote: If a child is tested to be {gifted / learning disabled / handicapped in some other way}, then once a year the school, parents, and child review the IEP (Individual Education Plan), which discusses the recommended accommodations for this child's exceptionalities. Do they have IEPs for gifted students (w/o disabilities that are impairing their academic progress) where you are? Yes. My sister had one from 1979 (Grade 3) to 1990 (Grade 13). I was ten years older and envious as anything, particularly about the way that the program reviews included the child. Louise |
#19
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fidgety kids
Paula wrote: Anyway, it's a life skill to deal with boredom productively. Who hasn't had to sit quietly and at least seemingly attentively in numerous boring meetings? That's been my take pretty much. He is bored, he repeatedly states he is bored. I figure he needs to find some way to occupy himself that is not distracting to others. Teachers seem to have different levels of tolerance for this. In 4th grade his teacher remarked that he "read at inappropriate times." Turns out when she was reading aloud to the class he preferred to read his own book. I don't see that as a problem, but she sure did. Similarly, the example of his science teacher who, despite quite clear evidence that the kid already knew the material, was upset that he was reading in class. So, we continue to work on that front. I've suggested doodling, but his teacher is not too keen on that either. He gets frustrated with helping other kids, but that is something he needs to learn to deal with better. there is no requirement for gifted education, and in fact our school district has come out quite strongly against any "special treatment" of advanced kids, even before NCLB. But beyond the "boredness" there is a distinct issue of fidgeting that may be related to the boredom, but seems distinct in some ways. I think the suggestions about limiting videos and increasing physical activity, as well as possibly looking at his diet are good ideas that I haven't really thought of as seriously as I probably should have. chris |
#20
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fidgety kids
Paula wrote: Anyway, it's a life skill to deal with boredom productively. Who hasn't had to sit quietly and at least seemingly attentively in numerous boring meetings? It is a life skill, but it isn't something that kids should be expected to practice for hours every day. I don't send my kids to school to learn how to pretend they're paying attention when they're really not. I get that there isn't enough funding to help everyone, but there are things that can be done or allowed that don't cost anything, and yet are still not available to most gifted kids. Grade or subject acceleration (grade skipping or going to another classroom for a particular subject) are free. Allowing a child to read quietly during lessons he has mastered is free. If that is distracting to other students, let him go to the library to read! There are numerous ideas for gifted education in the book "Teaching Gifted Kids in the Regular Classroom" by Susan Winebrenner that require a little of a teacher's time, but no additional funding. Kids can be allowed to do alternate work (not more, but more appropriate) that might be provided by their parents if the teachers don't have the time to find appropriate work to provide. Again this is free. Using gifted kids as tutors for other kids needs to be approached carefully, IMO. It risks making the child seem even more different to his/her peers, and sets them apart in a way that becomes socially uncomfortable. Some experience teaching is probably good for many kids, but again, it shouldn't be the only thing they do all day. Schools who refuse to give advanced kids any special treatment are doing them a huge disservice. It is unreasonable to send a child to school for 7 hours per day year after year and have them not learn anything other than how to be bored without showing it. If we turn these kids off of learning at a young age, I'd argue that we have also done society a disservice. --Robyn |
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