No-spank policy smacks of failure

Jennie wrote:
The latest figure (reported in Scotland on Sunday today, 20/11/05)
shows that 36 teachers were deliberately injured by pupils in the last
twelve months, seriously enough to need treatment in hospital. Such
incidents were pretty well unknown before CP was abolished in schools
(and yes, I was caned at school).

No, that is a lie, Jennie. Such incidents happened before. And if the
ONLY way you can reduce such incidents is by hitting kids, don't you
think that one then exhibit a lack of knowledge and skill concerning
the raising of children?

Millions of people raise children without hitting them. Perfectly
normal children.

Did you, by the way, bother to work out the numbers? In a nation that
STILL just as the US, allows, even where child are NOT paddled, parents
to still inflict corporal punishment on their children, the percentage
of teachers in Scotland that are attacked as you say, 36, is .07% out
of the total of teachers, over 57,000.

In other words, it is very likely that those children were ALL spanked
and or worse, by their parents. Where else have they to express their
rage at being so treated but against someone that is legally bound not
to hit them, or, as is bound to happen, their own children when they
grow up, as well as smaller children around them they bully?

You can't simply ignore the other variables related to the issue, like
parents still using CP, and contend that they children are violent
because the schools don't paddle.

I grew up where schools paddled, and I KNOW what the outcome is. And
it's exactly as I have. There have always been violent children,
Jennie, and the ones I knew were the ones paddled at home, though
terrified of the teachers they STILL found ways to get back, usually by
bullying others.

Your logic is entirely lacking. One of, I've noticed, disability in
folks that have experienced untreated trauma in their lives.

I believe they tend toward sneakiness and dishonesty as well. I read
that article you casually but carefully without link and without
mentioning what the article itself pointed out and I bothered to do the
math on. That that's an extraordinarily small percentage of the total.

http://news.scotsman.com/education.cfm?id=2271282005



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Donald logged in

Scotsman.com News
Monday, 21st November 2005
Education
Scotland on Sunday Sun 20 Nov 2005
Classroom attacks put 36 teachers in hospital
MURDO MACLEOD POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT

AT LEAST 36 Scottish teachers were hospitalised by pupils last year,
according to official figures which reveal the horrifying extent of
classroom violence.

Primary school children as well as secondary school pupils were
involved in the attacks, in which teachers were punched, head-butted,
hit by flying chairs or shoved so hard they hit desks or walls.

The injuries ranged from cuts and bruises to lacerations needing
stitches, broken arms and back injuries. Many victims had to take weeks
off work.

The revelation that an average of three Scots teachers a month need
hospital treatment following classroom violence has enraged teaching
unions and opposition politicians.

Most authorities were unable or unwilling to disclose what sanctions,
if any, had been taken against the culprits. In some cases, they were
moved to other schools or suspended. But teachers complain that in many
situations violent pupils are allowed to return to the same school.

The trend is rapidly rising, according to our research. In Edinburgh,
there were four attacks on teachers in 2000 and eight last year.
Glasgow recorded three in 2001 and eight in 2004.

A spokesman for the EIS, Scotland's biggest teaching union, said: "All
the signs are that the problem is getting worse, not better, and urgent
action is needed."

SNP education spokeswoman Fiona Hyslop said: "These figures are deeply
worrying, especially at a time when we are trying to recruit more young
people into teaching."

But the Scottish Executive said the figures did not mean that the
nation's classrooms were descending into chaos.

"It is important to remember that they only affect a tiny minority of
the 51,287 teachers in Scotland," said an Executive spokeswoman. ...


And the article offers a far more balanced view, in that it points out
the lack of followup on the part of schools to deal with the offender.
They fail to remove the child, the very least possible remedial action,
as well as fail to assign the child reeducation. They also find
themselves up against parents that defend the child and claim they are
being falsely accused. I follow these and other matters in Scotland
very closely. I have relatives there.

It's plain you are an advocate of scottish schools taking up the cane
and paddle again, and more articles in The Scotsman make the same
point. In other words, just advocacy to try and return to the bad old
days. Propaganda. It's also plain where they wish to go....back to what
created the problem in the first place....children of the parents that
were once subjected to being switched, smacked, paddled, caned in
school.

And you folks can't seem to make the connection. There are the children
of the children. And nothing stops their parents from smacking them at
home. Am I right, or am I right?

Sneaking, lack of logic. Tsk.

You were spanked.

Jennie

Kane

Jennie wrote:
The latest figure (reported in Scotland on Sunday today, 20/11/05)
shows that 36 teachers were deliberately injured by pupils in the last
twelve months, seriously enough to need treatment in hospital. Such
incidents were pretty well unknown before CP was abolished in schools
(and yes, I was caned at school).

No, that is a lie, Jennie. Such incidents happened before. And if the
ONLY way you can reduce such incidents is by hitting kids, don't you
think that one then exhibit a lack of knowledge and skill concerning
the raising of children?

Millions of people raise children without hitting them. Perfectly
normal children.

Did you, by the way, bother to work out the numbers? In a nation that
STILL just as the US, allows, even where child are NOT paddled, parents
to still inflict corporal punishment on their children, the percentage
of teachers in Scotland that are attacked as you say, 36, is .07% out
of the total of teachers, over 57,000.

In other words, it is very likely that those children were ALL spanked
and or worse, by their parents. Where else have they to express their
rage at being so treated but against someone that is legally bound not
to hit them, or, as is bound to happen, their own children when they
grow up, as well as smaller children around them they bully?

You can't simply ignore the other variables related to the issue, like
parents still using CP, and contend that they children are violent
because the schools don't paddle.

I grew up where schools paddled, and I KNOW what the outcome is. And
it's exactly as I have. There have always been violent children,
Jennie, and the ones I knew were the ones paddled at home, though
terrified of the teachers they STILL found ways to get back, usually by
bullying others.

Your logic is entirely lacking. One of, I've noticed, disability in
folks that have experienced untreated trauma in their lives.

I believe they tend toward sneakiness and dishonesty as well. I read
that article you casually but carefully without link and without
mentioning what the article itself pointed out and I bothered to do the
math on. That that's an extraordinarily small percentage of the total.

http://news.scotsman.com/education.cfm?id=2271282005



Please note: Either your browser does not comply with current Web
Standards or it has been unable to load the stylesheet that accompanies
this page. [Accessibility statement]

[Skip to navigation]
Scotsman.com
WebsitesNewsSportBusinessThe ScotsmanScotland on SundayEdinburgh
Evening NewsDatingJobsMotorsPropertyTravelBusiness FinderMember
CentreWeb FeedsMedia PackSite HelpDigital Archive 1817-1950Photo
GalleryReader HolidaysScotsman CalendarMoneyFantasy GolfHaggis
HuntEdinburgh FestivalsEntertainmentHeritage &
CultureLeisureWeatherWebcams
Search | Site map
Jobs | Property | Motors | Dating | Money

* Email preferences
* Edit your details
* Log out

Donald logged in

Scotsman.com News
Monday, 21st November 2005
Education
Scotland on Sunday Sun 20 Nov 2005
Classroom attacks put 36 teachers in hospital
MURDO MACLEOD POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT

AT LEAST 36 Scottish teachers were hospitalised by pupils last year,
according to official figures which reveal the horrifying extent of
classroom violence.

Primary school children as well as secondary school pupils were
involved in the attacks, in which teachers were punched, head-butted,
hit by flying chairs or shoved so hard they hit desks or walls.

The injuries ranged from cuts and bruises to lacerations needing
stitches, broken arms and back injuries. Many victims had to take weeks
off work.

The revelation that an average of three Scots teachers a month need
hospital treatment following classroom violence has enraged teaching
unions and opposition politicians.

Most authorities were unable or unwilling to disclose what sanctions,
if any, had been taken against the culprits. In some cases, they were
moved to other schools or suspended. But teachers complain that in many
situations violent pupils are allowed to return to the same school.

The trend is rapidly rising, according to our research. In Edinburgh,
there were four attacks on teachers in 2000 and eight last year.
Glasgow recorded three in 2001 and eight in 2004.

A spokesman for the EIS, Scotland's biggest teaching union, said: "All
the signs are that the problem is getting worse, not better, and urgent
action is needed."

SNP education spokeswoman Fiona Hyslop said: "These figures are deeply
worrying, especially at a time when we are trying to recruit more young
people into teaching."

But the Scottish Executive said the figures did not mean that the
nation's classrooms were descending into chaos.

"It is important to remember that they only affect a tiny minority of
the 51,287 teachers in Scotland," said an Executive spokeswoman. ...


And the article offers a far more balanced view, in that it points out
the lack of followup on the part of schools to deal with the offender.
They fail to remove the child, the very least possible remedial action,
as well as fail to assign the child reeducation. They also find
themselves up against parents that defend the child and claim they are
being falsely accused. I follow these and other matters in Scotland
very closely. I have relatives there.

It's plain you are an advocate of scottish schools taking up the cane
and paddle again, and more articles in The Scotsman make the same
point. In other words, just advocacy to try and return to the bad old
days. Propaganda. It's also plain where they wish to go....back to what
created the problem in the first place....children of the parents that
were once subjected to being switched, smacked, paddled, caned in
school.

And you folks can't seem to make the connection. They are the children
of the children. And nothing stops their parents from smacking them at
home. Am I right, or am I right?

Sneaking, lack of logic. Tsk.

You were spanked.

Jennie

Kane

Good point

"Jennie" wrote in message
oups.com...
You too are a giggle when you insist, in the teeth of common sense and
all the experience that anyone has ever had, that children behave
better when they are freely allowed to go on the rampage.

Jennie

Jennie wrote:
You too are a giggle when you insist, in the teeth of common sense and
all the experience that anyone has ever had, that children behave
better when they are freely allowed to go on the rampage.

Presuming, since I believe LaVonne used "giggle" in her subject line,
that you mean she advocates free allowace of chidren to go on the
rampage and that helps them behave better.

I've watched LaVonne post for a good many years, and have googled her
posts back from as far as Usenet archives them. I must have missed
something.

In fact I am more prone to speak out against punishment methods than
she, and I assure you I never let children run wild and go on rampages.
Never happens. It's the children of punishing parents, among other
proven failure methods that creates that desire in children.

Jennie

I am sorry, and I'm reasonable certain LaVonne would be as well, that
you are unable to think of all the very simple ways to direct, guide,
coach, teach children that handles any tendency, easily, for them to go
on "rampage."

Your were rampagers where they, that you could only stop with corporal
punishment?

When mine had excess energy we had prescribed activities for them to
engage in, as well as other methods of dealing with it than allowing
them to rampage, or beating them into submission and calling it
"spanking" and "discipline." Both phony ways to cover up incompetency
with names that disguise what be assault if you tried it on any adult
that didn't want to comply with you.

0:-