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#1
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The folly of dependence on laws
In one of the more famous examples of using laws to pursue a political
objective, the former Soviet Union granted women absolute equality with men. This was no mere law. Rather it was actually written into the Soviet constitution. Then, a little over a decade later, the Soviet Union collapsed and the status of even the most well educated women plunged into the political basement. Their daughters often wound up working as prostitutes. What those who put absolute faith in laws always forget is that the governments that pass them eventually collapse. Right now, American feminists are scared that their hard won *right* to abortion will be lost simply because of a changing of the guard in the Supreme Court. Then that is the nature of manmade laws. When governments fail, families survive. Even in war, women make love and give birth. People search for meaning through established religions. One of the first institutions to rise from the rubble of the Soviet system was the church. Having lost their legal equality, women once again had to find men able to support themselves and their children. The further laws stray from what people do normally do, the more severe the correction when the political infrastructure shifts or collapses. That is what happened to the equality of women in Russia. It is the same trap into which no-spanks are set to fall since, having failed to persuade parents to commit to their idiotic scheme, they are left with only a recourse to the coercive power of laws in pursuit of their agenda. It is one of the weakest position from which any faction can operate. Indeed, it is often the hallmark of a politically illegitimate regime! |
#2
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The folly of dependence on laws
Opinions wrote: In one of the more famous examples of using laws to pursue a political objective, the former Soviet Union granted women absolute equality with men. This was no mere law. Rather it was actually written into the Soviet constitution. Then, a little over a decade later, the Soviet Union collapsed and the status of even the most well educated women plunged into the political basement. Their daughters often wound up working as prostitutes. .....which would lead to the logical conclusion that having given women equality under their constitution brought down the soviet union, and by correlation would therefore lead to the conclusion made their daughters have to work as prostitutes. Yes, we understand. 0;- What those who put absolute faith in laws always forget is that the governments that pass them eventually collapse. Presuming enough time passes it's possible that any government will collapse. Absolute faith or lack thereof has little to do with it. Right now, American feminists are scared that their hard won *right* to abortion will be lost simply because of a changing of the guard in the Supreme Court. Then that is the nature of manmade laws. Yes, certainly is. Woman made laws too. When governments fail, families survive. Actually you are wrong. Failing governments again and again destroy families. Rwanda might be an example. Our own country after the civil war, saw families disrupted and members scattered about the country. Even in war, women make love and give birth. Gosh, I'm impressed with your insights. People search for meaning through established religions. Yep, and having found meaning they have faith in, just as they have faith in laws, sometimes it works, and sometimes, as you point out, it doesn't. Fancy that. One of the first institutions to rise from the rubble of the Soviet system was the church. What makes you think it was gone in Soviet society? Having lost their legal equality, women once again had to find men able to support themselves and their children. Then why do you think they turned to prostitution? Or are you now admitting that was hyperbole and in fact women marry, and did before, during, and after soviet govenrment? The further laws stray from what people do normally do, the more severe the correction when the political infrastructure shifts or collapses. If we knew what you meant by "normally do" we might better understand your point. For myself, I look at history, even more recent history, and see that women do a great deal that men do, and do so quite normally. They often though are not compensated for it equally. That is what happened to the equality of women in Russia. What? A government collapsed and it effected the equality of women? What do you think the men were doing while their "daughters" were doing their prostitution? It is the same trap into which no-spanks are set to fall since, having failed to persuade parents to commit to their idiotic scheme, they are left with only a recourse to the coercive power of laws in pursuit of their agenda. So you expect now that our government will collapse as a result and the children will become prostitutes. Yes, we see. 0;- It is one of the weakest position from which any faction can operate. Indeed, it is often the hallmark of a politically illegitimate regime! The use of the power of law is the hallmark of political illegitimacy? What use would legitimate political regimes make of the power of law then? And what laws would fit what people do naturally, as you mentioned earlier, presuming you mean that would make for a legitimate permanent political regime? Are you suggesting it's natural for men to beat women, and deny them the vote and employment equality, and for parents to beat their children and the law should reflect that "natural" state of humanity? Which laws do you see as illigitimate and which legitimate? What human actions and inactions do you consider natural and not? So, you've been sitting there silently brooding since your last failed fore' on this ng mulling this all over and have come up with a solution. Let's hear it, Observer. I'm especially interested in just how far a parent should be allowed to go before the state intervenes in his or her discipline measures using physical force. How much injury is allowable as "natural?" 0:- |
#3
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The folly of ..... The folly of dependence on laws
Opinions wrote: In one of the more famous examples of using laws to pursue a political objective, the former Soviet Union granted women absolute equality with men. This was no mere law. Rather it was actually written into the Soviet constitution. Then, a little over a decade later, the Soviet Union collapsed and the status of even the most well educated women plunged into the political basement. Their daughters often wound up working as prostitutes. .....which would lead to the logical conclusion that having given women equality under their constitution brought down the soviet union, and by correlation would therefore lead to the conclusion made their daughters have to work as prostitutes. Yes, we understand. 0;- What those who put absolute faith in laws always forget is that the governments that pass them eventually collapse. Presuming enough time passes it's possible that any government will collapse. Absolute faith or lack thereof has little to do with it. Right now, American feminists are scared that their hard won *right* to abortion will be lost simply because of a changing of the guard in the Supreme Court. Then that is the nature of manmade laws. Yes, certainly is. Woman made laws too. When governments fail, families survive. Actually you are wrong. Failing governments again and again destroy families. Rwanda might be an example. Our own country after the civil war, saw families disrupted and members scattered about the country. Even in war, women make love and give birth. Gosh, I'm impressed with your insights. People search for meaning through established religions. Yep, and having found meaning they have faith in, just as they have faith in laws, sometimes it works, and sometimes, as you point out, it doesn't. Fancy that. One of the first institutions to rise from the rubble of the Soviet system was the church. What makes you think it was gone in Soviet society? Having lost their legal equality, women once again had to find men able to support themselves and their children. Then why do you think they turned to prostitution? Or are you now admitting that was hyperbole and in fact women marry, and did before, during, and after soviet govenrment? The further laws stray from what people do normally do, the more severe the correction when the political infrastructure shifts or collapses. If we knew what you meant by "normally do" we might better understand your point. For myself, I look at history, even more recent history, and see that women do a great deal that men do, and do so quite normally. They often though are not compensated for it equally. That is what happened to the equality of women in Russia. What? A government collapsed and it effected the equality of women? What do you think the men were doing while their "daughters" were doing their prostitution? It is the same trap into which no-spanks are set to fall since, having failed to persuade parents to commit to their idiotic scheme, they are left with only a recourse to the coercive power of laws in pursuit of their agenda. So you expect now that our government will collapse as a result and the children will become prostitutes. Yes, we see. 0;- It is one of the weakest position from which any faction can operate. Indeed, it is often the hallmark of a politically illegitimate regime! The use of the power of law is the hallmark of political illegitimacy? What use would legitimate political regimes make of the power of law then? And what laws would fit what people do naturally, as you mentioned earlier, presuming you mean that would make for a legitimate permanent political regime? Are you suggesting it's natural for men to beat women, and deny them the vote and employment equality, and for parents to beat their children and the law should reflect that "natural" state of humanity? Which laws do you see as illigitimate and which legitimate? What human actions and inactions do you consider natural and not? So, you've been sitting there silently brooding since your last failed fore' on this ng mulling this all over and have come up with a solution. Let's hear it, Observer. I'm especially interested in just how far a parent should be allowed to go before the state intervenes in his or her discipline measures using physical force. How much injury is allowable as "natural?" 0:- |
#4
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PHISHER AT WORK; DON'T WAKE IT UP The folly of ..... The folly of dependence on laws
GO TRY WAREZ; THEY'RE MORE YOUR STYLE THAN THE FECES-LADEN
NON-SUPPORT YOU DROP IN THIS GROUP. GO PILLAGE ELSEWHERE MORON. OOPS; SORRY, DIDN'T MEAN TO CALL YOU A MORON; THAT'S A TERM FOR SAPIENT BEINGS. wrote in message oups.com... : : Opinions wrote: : In one of the more famous examples of using laws to pursue a political : objective, the former Soviet Union granted women absolute equality with : men. This was no mere law. Rather it was actually written into the : Soviet constitution. Then, a little over a decade later, the Soviet : Union collapsed and the status of even the most well educated women : plunged into the political basement. Their daughters often wound up : working as prostitutes. : : ....which would lead to the logical conclusion that having given women : equality under their constitution brought down the soviet union, and by : correlation would therefore lead to the conclusion made their daughters : have to work as prostitutes. Yes, we understand. 0;- : : What those who put absolute faith in laws always forget is that the : governments that pass them eventually collapse. : : Presuming enough time passes it's possible that any government will : collapse. Absolute faith or lack thereof has little to do with it. : : Right now, American : feminists are scared that their hard won *right* to abortion will be : lost simply because of a changing of the guard in the Supreme Court. : Then that is the nature of manmade laws. : : Yes, certainly is. Woman made laws too. : : When governments fail, families survive. : : Actually you are wrong. Failing governments again and again destroy : families. Rwanda might be an example. Our own country after the civil : war, saw families disrupted and members scattered about the country. : : Even in war, women make love : and give birth. : : Gosh, I'm impressed with your insights. : : People search for meaning through established : religions. : : Yep, and having found meaning they have faith in, just as they have : faith in laws, sometimes it works, and sometimes, as you point out, it : doesn't. Fancy that. : : One of the first institutions to rise from the rubble of : the Soviet system was the church. : : What makes you think it was gone in Soviet society? : : Having lost their legal equality, : women once again had to find men able to support themselves and their : children. : : Then why do you think they turned to prostitution? Or are you now : admitting that was hyperbole and in fact women marry, and did before, : during, and after soviet govenrment? : : The further laws stray from what people do normally do, the more severe : the correction when the political infrastructure shifts or collapses. : : If we knew what you meant by "normally do" we might better understand : your point. : : For myself, I look at history, even more recent history, and see that : women do a great deal that men do, and do so quite normally. They often : though are not compensated for it equally. : : That is what happened to the equality of women in Russia. : : What? A government collapsed and it effected the equality of women? : What do you think the men were doing while their "daughters" were doing : their prostitution? : : It is the : same trap into which no-spanks are set to fall since, having failed to : persuade parents to commit to their idiotic scheme, they are left with : only a recourse to the coercive power of laws in pursuit of their : agenda. : : So you expect now that our government will collapse as a result and the : children will become prostitutes. Yes, we see. 0;- : : It is one of the weakest position from which any faction can : operate. Indeed, it is often the hallmark of a politically : illegitimate regime! : : The use of the power of law is the hallmark of political illegitimacy? : : What use would legitimate political regimes make of the power of law : then? : : And what laws would fit what people do naturally, as you mentioned : earlier, presuming you mean that would make for a legitimate permanent : political regime? : : Are you suggesting it's natural for men to beat women, and deny them : the vote and employment equality, and for parents to beat their : children and the law should reflect that "natural" state of humanity? : : Which laws do you see as illigitimate and which legitimate? What human : actions and inactions do you consider natural and not? : : So, you've been sitting there silently brooding since your last failed : fore' on this ng mulling this all over and have come up with a : solution. Let's hear it, Observer. : : I'm especially interested in just how far a parent should be allowed to : go before the state intervenes in his or her discipline measures using : physical force. : : How much injury is allowable as "natural?" : : 0:- : |
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