OT religion and smacking

Cathy Weeks wrote:

Bruce and Jeanne wrote in message
...

I don't buy that argument - it's specious. I don't know if she would
have killed herself using a different method. (WHY do people make this
argument - has this been proven somewhere?)


I'm sorry you are hurting due to the loss of your friend. It truely
is sad. But blaming guns makes little sense - it's like abusing the
bearer of bad tidings.

???!!!!

The gun is equivalent to a bearer of bad tidings??!!

Sorry, that's just a bad analogy. Try another.

BTW I don't blame the gun for my friend's death. But I do think she was
very successful in her FIRST attempt because she used a gun. I also
thought while people were saying they all taught children about gun
safety, there's still an unintended consequence to guns in the house.

Jeanne

wrote:

That is so over the top. My dh and I are 100% incapable of such
behavior. I am positive of it. It always shocks me when people don't
trust themselves not to do such behaviors. I remember people saying
everyone is capable of killing like OJ did. I was soooo shocked.

Assuming OJ was sane at the time, which he probably was, I too think that most
people are in no danger of such an action. But NONE of us is safe from mental
illness, a brain tumor, Alzheimer's ...

--Helen

(Irene) wrote in message
First of all, I'm very happy your story ended happily. Not knowing
how you did it, I'm not sure if the actual guns were visible - i.e.,
could you have accomplished the same thing by good acting?

Yes, it could have been accomplished by acting, but I am not much of
an actress and never would have thought to act. I am sure the men
thought both my dh and I had guns. But, if there were no guns to be
had because of gun control, who would believe me then.

Secondly,
if I am understanding what a stungun is, (like a Tazer?) you have a
much smaller danger of someone killing you with it, and it is mainly a
defensive weapon and a much different beast.

Yes, I personally don't feel comfortable wearing a gun in public. I
have carried one around the house when I got creeped at strange noises
before though. That was before I had the dogs though. Now they
investigate the strange noises for me, and I would only have to bring
out the gun if things got bad for the dogs. I love dogs. They are
better security than guns I think.


Unless I am completely
mistaken, owning a stungun would not, for instance, enable one to
commit suicide or suddenly murder your spouse in a fit of rage.

You are not mistaken.


Another thought - personally, guns give me the creeps. My big fear
for using one in self-defense is that it would get taken away from me
and used against me.

I used to fear that too. I didn't think I could really shoot someone
with it, but it somehow changed for me. Maybe it was getting older
and seeing enough creepers around or maybe it was because I had babies
and would surely protect them to the best of my ability.

I did once go to a shooting range (with dh's
close friend who is in the Army and has a gun that he keeps well
locked up) in order to learn a little bit about how guns really work.
I learned that they give me the creeps even more up close, even though
I did better than dh or his friend! His friend is an admittedly bad
shot - fortunately for all of us, he isn't Infantry ;-) I still think
it would probably be valuable for me to learn a little more - if
nothing else, how to recognize whether or not the safety is on, for a
variety of guns. So, while I recognize that for some people, the
benefits outweigh the risks, for me, I'll pass.


That's cool. It's fine if people don't want guns. It's only a
problem when they want to take ours.

KC

teapot wrote:

book her pastor had lent her. It said that you should smack but not
with the hand as that is for love, but with a paddle.

I called the NSPCC who said that there was nothing that can be done as
she didnt know what the book was called and I couldnt remember what
church she went to. They thought she may have mental health problems,
she had 3 kids with her so that is so worrying.

That's Dobson, the "Focus on the Family" guy. He says parents should
spank with a paddle or a switch, not with the hand.


Mary S.
mom to the Sproutkin
and a new wee babysprout, due October 1

In article ,
(Cathy Weeks) wrote:

Bruce and Jeanne wrote in message
...

My best childhood friend lived with a gun in her house. Locked. Given
safety lessons. Then, at 18, because she wasn't doing well at college,
she unlocked the case because she knew where the key was and shot
herself.

If she was bent on suicide, she would have found a way to end her
life, and she wasn't safe regardless of the presence of firearms.
Vilifying guns doesn't help.

It probably took her all of 5 minutes to unlock the safe and shoot herself.
Most otehr suicide methods take a bit longer to arrange, which gives the
person time to rethink.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Jeez; if only those Ancient Greek storytellers had known about the astonishing
creature that is the *Usenet hydra*: you cut off one head, and *a stupider one*
grows back..." -- MJ, cam.misc

In article ,
(KC) wrote:

Even if this is true, I still think the benefits outweigh the risks
because where upstanding people legally own guns crime rates are
reduced.

Most guns were made illegal in Australia a few years ago. Oddly enough, we
aren't suffering from the levels of crime you would expect if the above
statement were true!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Jeez; if only those Ancient Greek storytellers had known about the astonishing
creature that is the *Usenet hydra*: you cut off one head, and *a stupider one*
grows back..." -- MJ, cam.misc

In article ,
(KC) wrote:

That is so over the top. My dh and I are 100% incapable of such
behavior. I am positive of it. It always shocks me when people don't
trust themselves not to do such behaviors. I remember people saying
everyone is capable of killing like OJ did. I was soooo shocked. I
know I am incapable of such things and want to stay the h*ll away from
those of you who think you are :-)

Frankly, I want to stay the h*ll away from someone who doesn't *believe* they
are capable of violence. A person who knows their capacity for evil (or even
depression!) is on guard agaisnt it. You aren't.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Jeez; if only those Ancient Greek storytellers had known about the astonishing
creature that is the *Usenet hydra*: you cut off one head, and *a stupider one*
grows back..." -- MJ, cam.misc

Chookie,

Most guns were made illegal in Australia a few years ago. Oddly enough, we
aren't suffering from the levels of crime you would expect if the above
statement were true!

Hmmm. That is the opposite of what I heard a couple years ago, but I don't
remember now my source. Do you know where to find violent crime statistics for
the past 10 years or so in Australia?

marvin

Marvin L. Zinn
Reply to:
Using Virtual Access
Windows 2000 build 2600

Marvin L. Zinn wrote:

Chookie,

Most guns were made illegal in Australia a few years ago. Oddly enough, we
aren't suffering from the levels of crime you would expect if the above
statement were true!

Hmmm. That is the opposite of what I heard a couple years ago, but I don't
remember now my source. Do you know where to find violent crime statistics for
the past 10 years or so in Australia?

marvin

Marvin L. Zinn
Reply to:
Using Virtual Access
Windows 2000 build 2600


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir

shows the top 100 countries in murders with firearms. The US is 4th
with 8,259 in 1999. Australia is 21th with 59 in 2000. Canada is 12th
with 165 murders in 1999.

Jeanne

In article ,
Bruce and Jeanne wrote:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir

shows the top 100 countries in murders with firearms. The US is 4th
with 8,259 in 1999. Australia is 21th with 59 in 2000. Canada is 12th
with 165 murders in 1999.

The US is 0.03 per 1000. Australia is listed as 0 per 1000; probably this
means 0.01.

However, that's only murders. You would have to compare murders, suicides,
robberies and assaults using firearms to get a better picture. Even before
our gun laws were made REALLY hard to get, our gun crime was still mostly
amongst organised criminals. What the tighter gun laws have done (IMHO) is
stopped *nutter* gun murder-suicides, where a man shoots up a shopping centre
or kills everyone in his family, then blows his own head off.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Jeez; if only those Ancient Greek storytellers had known about the astonishing
creature that is the *Usenet hydra*: you cut off one head, and *a stupider one*
grows back..." -- MJ, cam.misc